Good engine swap in a CRX

[Mario]

Ok, going to be getting a CRX so that I can actually do something to it (I feel stuck with my 89 Prelude), and of course want to do an engine swap. I just don't wanna do your "standard b16a" swap though, there are too many of those. I was thinking of h22a, but might be a tight squeeze in there. Any other ones that would be a good setup? Any real-world experiences help all the better. :)

[b18cya-T]

gsr or LS + boost

that .2 litres makes all the world of difference

[GimPin]

no real experience with this but I had a CRX for awhile and explored my options and everybody that I talked to said the h22 will drop in but it is a very very heavy engine and unless you plan to go only in a straight line it is not a good swap ..... handleing would be horrible due to massive under steer.... also have heard you would have to get a pretty extensive coil over set to be able to support the front end....... I personaly would get a b16 and boost it ..... or even a D16 VTEC and boost that (this would be the cheapest) you could fully build an EX motor and piece together a "junkyard" turbo kit for less than an H22 swap and it would still be drivable just my $0.02 though

[Mario]

Yea, I've heard about this horrid understear with the H22's. What's the best weight/power ratio engine? I'll have to look into FI as well... I just don't want my insurance to go through the roof. Oh yea, kinda an O/T question: how will insurance know that I have turbo/supercharged my engine? Can they find out?

[TedR719]

JDM B16A SiR I (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30001)

ZC (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015)

[Mario]

Originally posted by futuresi
JDM B16A SiR I (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30001)

ZC (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30015)

The ZC looks like what I have... like a B20A5. If so, it severely lacks in power in the higher RPM range and think I'd want to get VTEC as well. That B16A for $1100 though... not a bad deal. :)

[Maverick]

If you get any B-series remember that you will spend at least $375 for a mount kit.

[GimPin]

Originally posted by Mario
Yea, I've heard about this horrid understear with the H22's. What's the best weight/power ratio engine? I'll have to look into FI as well... I just don't want my insurance to go through the roof. Oh yea, kinda an O/T question: how will insurance know that I have turbo/supercharged my engine? Can they find out?

They wont know unless you tell them ..... but keep in mind if you dont tell them they wont cover it (usually) .... so if it were me I would prolly carry libility only insurance and not tell them about the mods and then you have really cheap insurance. If you fully build a d15 or d16 VTEC and boost it you can push more boost and get alot of HP.... I am assuming that you are on a budget so you could pick up an EX engine and buy some CTR rods or eagle H beam would be better and forged pistons for less than a B16 swap would cost you and since you are built you can push more than the weak 8 lbs that all the kits are running.... also figure in Fuel management into your cost..... that is a must if you go FI

[GimPin]

keep in mind you can pick up an EX for less than 400 usualy

[GimPin]

I know someone who has forged pistons for a D15 non-vtec but they will also fit an EX d16 but not sure what the compression would be .... if anybody could help me out that would be great they are 9:1 in a d15

[David]

B16a1 and a Turbo...that will get that bitch flyin!

[Mario]

Originally posted by GimPin
They wont know unless you tell them ..... but keep in mind if you dont tell them they wont cover it (usually) .... so if it were me I would prolly carry libility only insurance and not tell them about the mods and then you have really cheap insurance. If you fully build a d15 or d16 VTEC and boost it you can push more boost and get alot of HP.... I am assuming that you are on a budget so you could pick up an EX engine and buy some CTR rods or eagle H beam would be better and forged pistons for less than a B16 swap would cost you and since you are built you can push more than the weak 8 lbs that all the kits are running.... also figure in Fuel management into your cost..... that is a must if you go FI

Ok, cool. I prolly won't tell them, since I know they will seriously jack me up on insurance (just because I am 16, and would have a super/turbocharged car). A d15/d16 w/ VTEC sounds interesting, and I am wondering why you brought it up, esp. since those engines only push ~110 HP stock. How much does VTEC add (and FI as well)? A built engine would be nice, since it will leave me for some flexibility and so I can boost it more. I like the idea about building an EX engine. What are the engine codes for the EX's? Thanks for all the help. :)

[GimPin]

the engine codes are 92-95 D16z6: 125HP ..... 96-00 D16y8: 127HP .... the reason I brought up the ex engine is becuase most ppl think that b16s and b18s are the only way to get hp .... and every body forgets all the little shit that adds up for a B series swap... (mounts, tranny, ECU, wiring harnes, axels) it adds up with the SOHC you can use the same mounts the engine drops straight in and you can use the same tranny .... also you might wanna check you this site for engine codes and hp ratings on different engines ..... http://dreamwater.org/eclipsedevo/enginecodes.html oh and I just relized you are the one that came to look at my CRX ... I assume you found one ya have any pics? good luck on the project man

[stu]

Gimpin are you still selling a CRX?

[GimPin]

nope I sold it to turboholic

[Mario]

Originally posted by GimPin
the engine codes are 92-95 D16z6: 125HP ..... 96-00 D16y8: 127HP .... the reason I brought up the ex engine is becuase most ppl think that b16s and b18s are the only way to get hp .... and every body forgets all the little shit that adds up for a B series swap... (mounts, tranny, ECU, wiring harnes, axels) it adds up with the SOHC you can use the same mounts the engine drops straight in and you can use the same tranny .... also you might wanna check you this site for engine codes and hp ratings on different engines ..... http://dreamwater.org/eclipsedevo/enginecodes.html oh and I just relized you are the one that came to look at my CRX ... I assume you found one ya have any pics? good luck on the project man

Ok, I'll have to look into it further. Any places that sell d16's?

Yea, I was the one who came... damn, wish I would have had the money to buy it. :( Would have been perfect to start with. I have not looked for any yet... there are almost non for sale, since summer is coming up. Plus, I'll have to sell/trade my Prelude to get the money for the CRX. I sure hope I can get a better job like doing deliveries or something. :p

[GimPin]

I would call around to junk yards for ex engines

[Mario]

Originally posted by GimPin
I would call around to junk yards for ex engines

Good idea. :) Thanks for all the help. :cool:

[Mario]

So maybe getting a d16 engine, now what exactly would need to be done to get the engine ready for FI? Also, would getting a VTEC head be any good?

[GimPin]

Rods (probably Eagle H-beam $350 - $400) (you could also consider CTR rods I have heard they aren't too bad and fairly cheap)
Pistons (forged SRP aka JE $400
Metal Head Gasket $100
FMU aprox $150.... or you can get bigger injectors and an SAFC but this is added cost but is the "right" way to do it
Turbo Manifold (can probably find on for around $300)
Turbo (might consider a 14b stock eclipse turbo... you can pick one up for about a $100)
watch ebay for turbo and turbo manifold I picked up my whole set up for $400
Fuel pump (walbro 255 $100)
Exhaust work price can vary
BOV (get a 1g DSM $50)

[GimPin]

also if you get a CRX SI it has the 1.6L you could buy a SOHC vtec head and bolt it on and save some $ I found my head for $200

[crxrocks]

Originally posted by GimPin
FMU aprox $150.... or you can get bigger injectors and an SAFC but this is added cost but is the "right" way to do it


Blah, right way? No. Get a programmable ECU if you can afford it (Hondata, Zdyne). If not, checkout the Honda ECU hacking effort www.ghettodyne.com

Chris

[Maverick]

In order to use B-series rods you have to have the piston end bushed. This is where they put a brass bushing in there to make it smaller and you have to machine the crank end of the rod to fit. You could find used H-beams for the same price it would cost to make used LS rods fit.

For D-info go here http://pub143.ezboard.com/bhondadseries

[GimPin]

ok "right" way is a very vague term .... there is always a better way to do somthing... the FMU way is just the cheapest and the SAFC and injectors is a more "common" way.

[Mario]

Originally posted by GimPin
Rods (probably Eagle H-beam $350 - $400) (you could also consider CTR rods I have heard they aren't too bad and fairly cheap)
Pistons (forged SRP aka JE $400
Metal Head Gasket $100
FMU aprox $150.... or you can get bigger injectors and an SAFC but this is added cost but is the "right" way to do it
Turbo Manifold (can probably find on for around $300)
Turbo (might consider a 14b stock eclipse turbo... you can pick one up for about a $100)
watch ebay for turbo and turbo manifold I picked up my whole set up for $400
Fuel pump (walbro 255 $100)
Exhaust work price can vary
BOV (get a 1g DSM $50)

Ok, cool, thanks. :cool:

[MichaelT]

Most insurance companys won't insure "modified" cars, however it is very rare for them to ever pop the hood.

[GimPin]

Originally posted by MichaelT
Most insurance companys won't insure "modified" cars, however it is very rare for them to ever pop the hood.

I'm not sure where you get your info from but have never heard that one .... yes there are some companies that wont insure heavily modified cars but most dont even care ... most companies will insure a Sand Rail and the only thing stock on those is the VW bug Frame..... but I still say just do the mods and dont tell them ... what they dont know wont hurt them

[Mario]

Yea, I will probably go that way.

I am also wondering, what kinda numbers can I expect out of the swap for a... b16a | b16a + supercharger | b16a + turbocharger (just a midrange one for now) | d16y8 built, and d16y8 super/turbocharged. Looking for 0-60, 1/4, and HP. Just rough estimates and anyone who has experience with (or know a person who has) a swap of any of those... now would be a good time to post. :D

[nate9213]

Check out http://pollito.no-ip.com/turbod16/index.php this is the turbo d16 forum with a lot of information. Also try searching around honda-acura.net and superhonda.com They have endless amounts of info on this type of stuff.

[crx7419]

Your best bet is a b16 head with a b20 bottom turboed. You will have your vtec and your 2.0 bottom end for torque. but you will have to get a hyd. trans to handle the torque.Here is a web site for more info for hot motor combos. http://www.dh-racing.com/ They are on ebay selling motors and parts best place to get parts for crxs I built my whole car off ebay for alot less.:) :) :)

[Mario]

Originally posted by crx7419
Your best bet is a b16 head with a b20 bottom turboed. You will have your vtec and your 2.0 bottom end for torque. but you will have to get a hyd. trans to handle the torque.

Hey, welcome to HAI. :)

Do you have any links or information on this? b20 bottom? Like, the b20 that is in my Prelude?

[93dxKID]

Apologize for the interruption, but after reading all the posts it has got me thinking about a possible EX swap also? currently running a low modified DX-hatch, would it be worth the effort? A modifed ex hatch sounds not so popular which also interests me since civics are 'everywhere and are all the same' thats all i really hear when people ask me what i drive....anyways - i probably read over it but and estimates on a complete ex swap? heard it just bolts right in and would'nt have to worry so much about axles and electronics? thanks

[TXKompressor]

the Ex thang is just like an Si hatch of that year so seperating yourself it wouldn't be... do a B20 swap and boost

Mario do a B20 and boost it will be sick as hell and original it would definetly seperate you from the crowd

[93dxKID]

eh yeah turbo is great and there is a lot of options you have in doing a kit, also a larger engine swap doesn't interest me all that much - id just like to make the hatch a little quicker - not out to beat everyone on the street, i haven't researched anything really about the ex swap so im going to keep my mouth somewhat shut but if its not a hard swap im leaning towards that...perhaps just building up an ex motor (if decided) and have it all motor

[TXKompressor]

building an EX upto what maybe 180whp that is if you are lucky and sink $3000 building it up when you can get the LS or B20 and a Turbo kit for around $3000, it would be better off and in the 92-95 Civics the B Series are easy, not quite as complex as the 88-91, so do it and save the money and get more HP

As far as making the DX faster dont waste any money, just save do the swap and be happy.. just my $.02

[93dxKID]

for starters, about how much do you think it would cost for a B20 swap alone, thats to order the motor and everything, and to have a shopinstall it? jdmhondaparts says the B20 retails around $700

[TXKompressor]

1st off the $700 wont come with a tranny for the entire swap if you look around you can get one for like $1000 with tranny and a ECU, second In Colorado never have a shop do it unless it is C2Tuning, I have seen almost everyones work here in CO and it was just straight up for lack of better words "Shit". Do it yourself so you can research and learn alot and maybe have a wingman helping you out... but shops in CO, tend to fuck things up...

[93dxKID]

i live in MD - east coast, the only sports shop around me that i know does engine swaps is import sports, i think they may have a reputation for not putting all the bolts in =/ yeah im up for the whole swap it myself kind of thing only thing is that i don't know everything you need to know on how to do an engine swap, and wiring - thats pretty foreign to me, anyhow besides the tranny and ecu don't you kneed to purchase engine mounts and axles? one last thing...what exactly do they mean 'longblock' - thanks for the imput, this idiot is learning

[TXKompressor]

haha, MD is good seen the Import scene out there is growing...

As far as the wiring and etc... a good place to go is http://hybrid.honda-perf.org
at will give you a complete break down of all of it including wiring diagrams and all needed parts it helps a lot

get out and do it you will be much more happier then a built D series

[nate9213]

Why not drop in a D16Z6? Greddy1.6 ran a 15.5 with no intercooler and 5.5psi in a 94 EX. The CRX weights much less, and if you intercool it, boost it to 8psi, and tune it well, you could easily be into the mid 14's or faster. Total price with engine, turbo, and engine managment- $3000+ and will be able to walk all over the LS CRX. I think these guys want to be quick but stay on a tight budget, just throwing some options. Another option is to do a mini-me with your exsisting bottom end.

[93dxKID]

Originally posted by nate9213
I think these guys want to be quick but stay on a tight budget

exactly, i love my hatch to death but later if i want something fast i would just save up for something like a WRX and go from there, as for now im not out to beat every single person, rather just keep up with the growing scene

[93dxKID]

where can i find specs/info on the B20? ive bin looking but not much luck

[Mario]

Originally posted by 93dxKID
where can i find specs/info on the B20? ive bin looking but not much luck

The b20 is on the older Preludes, like mine, and apparently CRV's.

So a built b20 block. b16a VTEC head. And boost. The b20 block + ECU and tranny should be ~$1000 correct? b16a VTEC Head ~$300?

Now: where is a good place to find things such as pistons and rods for engines... as well as other parts?

[TXKompressor]

importbuilders.com if you find anything you like run it by me I am a dealer for IB...

[Xtreme Racer]

:( lol i'm doing a boosted b20 in my crx :(

[93dxKID]

thanks mugen, i hear the b16a/b18c would pretty much just drop right into my car cause all the motor mounts are the same, what about the b20? any differences - would the electronics be hard to do - just asking because ive never done or seen an engine swap before, id like to do it myself but im still a little hesitant, most indepth thing ive done so far was pull my head off the dx and get it rebuilt, same time we replaced the piston rings but thats really all, bolting/unbolting things i don't have trouble with just all the electronic hook up and all worries me
-thanks

[Cheio]

Good site to find mass amount of info you're looking for:

www.honda-tech.com
www.superhonda.com
http://hybrid.honda-perf.org

All the questions you asked are answered in depth in all of these sites. And if I where you, i'd go b16 turbo. Don't get a ZC. ZC are JDM engines and are harder to get parts for. Get a d16, if you're going any SOHC VTEC. Or just mini-me it. Or if you're daring you could be the first to stuff a k20 in there :eek: :D .

The differences between z6 and y8 are cam and flow differences. The z6 ports are symetrical which means better flow. The y8 cams are more agressive giving you more HP. They both have different shaped combustion chambers and different shape and length of the intake port dividers.

The y8 ports result in a better air/fuel mix which results in better bottom end torque. The z6 starts to shine in higher RPM's. The y8's combustion chambers increase compression and help reduce detonation. If I was gonna FI either of these. I'd go with the z6, just for compression reasons. But for a daily driven motor, just get a y8. You'll have better low and mid-range power.

Just my thoughts... flame away...

[john]

Swap in a 4g63. Buschur built a 4g63 powered CRX which ran 8s during the initial shakedown runs...
*grin*

[crxrocks]

Originally posted by Cheio

Don't get a ZC. ZC are JDM engines and are harder to get parts for.

That is a common misconception. You just have to know what parts to get. Most of the time, you can't just walk into a shop and ask for ZC parts, because they won't have a clue.

Chris

[B20civic]

Originally posted by crx7419
Your best bet is a b16 head with a b20 bottom turboed. You will have your vtec and your 2.0 bottom end for torque. but you will have to get a hyd. trans to handle the torque. are you fucking retarded? first iof all, not only is B20vtec pointless, so is putting a B16A head on it, without a ton of machining work. first of all, the b20 is a bigger motor, and the B16 head has way smaller combustion chambers. B20Turbo>>>>>>>B20vtec turbo. and you dont need a hyd. tranny to 'handle the torque' :rofl:

[B20civic]

Originally posted by Mario
The b20 is on the older Preludes, like mine, and apparently CRV's.

So a built b20 block. b16a VTEC head. And boost. The b20 block + ECU and tranny should be ~$1000 correct? b16a VTEC Head ~$300?

Now: where is a good place to find things such as pistons and rods for engines... as well as other parts? A B20 longblock, no ecu, or tranny will run you about $800. And if yoyu wanted to waste time/money on a b20vtec, use a GSR, or ITR head, not a b16a.

honda n00bs

[93dxKID]

on my way home from the pool hall tonight i got behind this race, gen1 eclipse, and a gen 2 eclipse, after seeing that my mind is going crazy because im slow as crap, i had a thought today - b16 head on my dx block? anyone know if that would be possible, if so then i could just still save up for an LS block and then when i do the full swap b16 head LS block? any possibilties?

[Mario]

So why exactly is a b20 w/ VTEC a bad idea?

[TXKompressor]

reliability is an issue on the B20/vted and the B16 head will not fit the D series block sorry, no can doo

[B20civic]

think about it. if it was good, don tyou think honda woulda made it? 1 of the reasons is the lack of oil squirters in the block. you'll be lucky if you dont spin bearings...

[Cheio]

Originally posted by crxrocks
That is a common misconception. You just have to know what parts to get. Most of the time, you can't just walk into a shop and ask for ZC parts, because they won't have a clue.

Chris

True... I can't argue with that. But in reality it's just a little easier to get USDM parts over JDM parts. But you're right none the less...

-Chei

[Mario]

So just building a straight up b20b would be the best choice...? What else will I need to complete the swap?

If I get this (http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc2000search.cgi?what=page&item=30020), what will I need to go with it?

[cherrybombcivic]

b20/vtec isnt a bad idea... its a bad idea if you dont have a ton of money to spend on making your bottom end stronger and less susseptible(sic) to problems, i.e. arp rod bolts, stronger rods, sleeved block, gsr block girdle, install vtec oil squirters. But for someone on a budget, thats not the way to go. Oh and just to please all the non-vtec block/vtec head haters out there.... THE R/S RATIO SUCKS ON THOSE MOTORS! there...

[93dxKID]

any thoughts of spending money on internals and eventually bolting on a turbo kit on my dx? would it be worth the effort? i know i could never get as much power out of my d series as i could if i did a b series swap but im thinking of just changing all the internals if if motor will be able to hold up in the long run with a trubo

[93dxKID]

its obvious i can't type :(

[Cheio]

Just save your money and go b-series...

**Edit: W00t... Top-O-Page ownage!

[john]

/me quietly whispers "4g63"

*ahem*

/me loudly runs away

[oldskoolracer]

hey,

i have a crx with a zc and i impress alot of guys out there and
it;s easy and pretty cheap your talking a 30horse gain with no
mods right off the bat, i toasted a 99' gsr the third day i had
it in and it still had the stogk wires and plugs from japan
what you would spend on a mount kits for a bseries i have my motor

[GimPin]

Originally posted by oldskoolracer
hey,

i have a crx with a zc and i impress alot of guys out there and
it;s easy and pretty cheap your talking a 30horse gain with no
mods right off the bat, i toasted a 99' gsr the third day i had
it in and it still had the stogk wires and plugs from japan
what you would spend on a mount kits for a bseries i have my motor

yeah this is a good engine too... and fairly cheap due to it being a direct bolt in ..... I think zcspeed is running 13s with a stock zc in a striped hatch

[Mario]

Oooh, cool beans I'll look into it too. So I am considering a b16a, a b20, and a ZC. How would building a ZC for turbo sound? Maybe supercharger? Any HP/time estimations?

[crxrocks]

I have a built ZC and a JRSC, but I don't have any HP or track times to offer, sorry. Here is a link to some ZC information if you decide to go that route.

http://www.thezcr.com/

Chris

[93dxKID]

zc motor is a direct bolt in for a 93 hatch you say? what about wiring? any difficulties?

[Mario]

Originally posted by crxrocks
I have a built ZC and a JRSC, but I don't have any HP or track times to offer, sorry. Here is a link to some ZC information if you decide to go that route.

http://www.thezcr.com/

Chris

Dang... get it dyno'd! :D Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

The ZC is sounding like a good solution for what I want to do - but now I am confused between the b20 or the ZC. Both have about the same horsepower but different torque numbers. Also, the ZC longblock is only $500 while the b20 is ~900 if I remember correctly.

[Cheio]

A ZC is a d16... The b20 block has .4 more displacement over the ZC. That means better torque numbers and better tuning possibilities. I'm not a big fan of the ZC but to each his own.

-Chei

[Mario]

I think that I am gonna go with the ZC. And here's why. I can use the stock tranny and ECU, along with motor mounts with it. This is really nice, and will save me ~$500 right there. Next, is that the ZC is a cheap engine to start off with. I mean, $500 for a longblock can't be beat.. and with saving because it is a direct bolt in, that is roughly $500 more I can put towards building the beast up.

I find it hard to believe that a stock ZC runs 13's... in any car. Anyone have a link or timeslips for this?

Would VTEC on a ZC be stupid as well? Or would it help? While the more money I can save is better, if it does help and make a difference, I am all for it. :)

[TXKompressor]

Originally posted by Mario
Would VTEC on a ZC be stupid as well? Or would it help? While the more money I can save is better, if it does help and make a difference, I am all for it. :)

Vtec on a ZC cannot be done due to the D series block and it being a D series, Non Vtec engine... I have never heard of anyone out there trying it.... but do not think it is even possible

[Mario]

Originally posted by MugenRacer
Vtec on a ZC cannot be done due to the D series block and it being a D series, Non Vtec engine... I have never heard of anyone out there trying it.... but do not think it is even possible

Duh... sorry, brain fried today. ;Slap:

[Cheio]

get a d16z6/y8 if you want a cheap vtec motor. U can push just as much as a zc and it's a USDM motor.

[Mario]

Originally posted by Cheio
get a d16z6/y8 if you want a cheap vtec motor. U can push just as much as a zc and it's a USDM motor.

VTEC isn't really that big of a deal - if I can add it on and get an extra 20hp, than great for me but...

I would like to do a b20, because it's fairly rare and the torque would be kick ass... but I am gonna have to run a spreadsheet for both of them and see how much it comes out to and if it is worth it.

[GimPin]

Originally posted by Mario
I think that I am gonna go with the ZC. And here's why. I can use the stock tranny and ECU, along with motor mounts with it. This is really nice, and will save me ~$500 right there. Next, is that the ZC is a cheap engine to start off with. I mean, $500 for a longblock can't be beat.. and with saving because it is a direct bolt in, that is roughly $500 more I can put towards building the beast up.

I find it hard to believe that a stock ZC runs 13's... in any car. Anyone have a link or timeslips for this?

Would VTEC on a ZC be stupid as well? Or would it help? While the more money I can save is better, if it does help and make a difference, I am all for it. :)

here check out his site www.zcspeed.com he ran a 13.94 on a stock zc at bandimere.... keep in mind the hatch only weighs 1610 lbs with driver

[-TJ]

My opinion:

Don't fool around with a D16Z6/Y8. A ZC develops the same power and has more tuning potential.

ZC isn't a bad option, but don't expect your car to be "transformed" into a rocketship with that motor. There is not a lot of aftermarket support for these motors either, and while I said it's got tuning potential, not nearly as much as a B-series motor.

I'd be more inclined to save for a B series swap and DO NOT bother with a B16A. The B16A is all hype with no torque, especially in CO. It's a fun motor to drive with at a track where you can keep it rev'n at 7000+ RPM, but for a street car driving like a citizen you might as well keep what you've got under the hood. Now if you are going to boost it, that's a different story (and about another $2500+).

You'll be much happier with a B-series motor that actually develops a small bit of usable low end torque for street driving - B18A, B, C or the B20B, Z. While gazing over the 5 pages of your post I noticed the Prelude B20 was mentioned. As far as I know, that motor is a B-series bastard. It might as well be a totally different motor in the B-series world as we know it.

If your wallet is making your decisions for you and you've just got to swap NOW, then I guess you are going to have to settle for a ZC.

[Mario]

I am gonna go with a ZC first... since I will be strapped on cash. I'd love to do a b20 swap, but income is holding me back. I think that the ZC will be a good first engine swap, and it'll be about $1,000 cheaper (which means I can start with it sooner).

[Cheio]

More tuning potential? In what way? It has one more cam... yet they make pretty much the same numbers everywhere. If you want to get technical.... here's some figures for you:

D16Z6 1.6L SOHC VTEC 92-95 Civic EX/Si 125hp
D16Y8 1.6L SOHC VTEC 96+ Civic EX 127hp
B20B 2.0L DOHC non-VTEC 96-98 CR-V 126hp
B20Z 2.0L DOHC non-VTEC 99-01 CR-V 143hp
The ZC is the samething as a JDM d16a1

The b16'd cars i've ridden in have been plenty quick. But that was just your opinion and this is mine.

Originally posted by -TJ
My opinion:

Don't fool around with a D16Z6/Y8. A ZC develops the same power and has more tuning potential.

ZC isn't a bad option, but don't expect your car to be "transformed" into a rocketship with that motor. There is not a lot of aftermarket support for these motors either, and while I said it's got tuning potential, not nearly as much as a B-series motor.

I'd be more inclined to save for a B series swap and DO NOT bother with a B16A. The B16A is all hype with no torque, especially in CO. It's a fun motor to drive with at a track where you can keep it rev'n at 7000+ RPM, but for a street car driving like a citizen you might as well keep what you've got under the hood. Now if you are going to boost it, that's a different story (and about another $2500+).

You'll be much happier with a B-series motor that actually develops a small bit of usable low end torque for street driving - B18A, B, C or the B20B, Z. While gazing over the 5 pages of your post I noticed the Prelude B20 was mentioned. As far as I know, that motor is a B-series bastard. It might as well be a totally different motor in the B-series world as we know it.

If your wallet is making your decisions for you and you've just got to swap NOW, then I guess you are going to have to settle for a ZC.

[TXKompressor]

Mario I will give you a ride in my B16 hatch, no hype here I was the first B16 swap here over 5 years ago. It is not all hype

the ZC is a good one to go with and as far as HP it is 135-138 and torque is three ft/lbs less then the B16 here:

ZC: 137hp - 108 ft/lbs
B16: 160hp - 111 ft/lbs
D16Z6: 125 hp - 105 ft/lbs
B20b/z: 126hp/146hp - 133 ft/lbs

[-TJ]

Just trying to help Mario make an informed decision like anyone else. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It's just my opinion that if you want a quick street car, you are going to need as much torque as you can get. 105-111ft. lbs. isn't much.

[Cheio]

Originally posted by -TJ
Just trying to help Mario make an informed decision like anyone else. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. It's just my opinion that if you want a quick street car, you are going to need as much torque as you can get. 105-111ft. lbs. isn't much.

You're right. Quick and fast are two different things. Most cars that i've raced have been from a role so i like the high-RPM aspect.

[CivicObsession]

I had an 89 HF with a B18B and i ran 14.9 with i/h/e

[stu]

Not up here you didn't

[oldskoolracer]

start off with a zc easy and cheap and w/ less weight
you can stomp alot of cars you could'nt before
horsepower to weight is a big factor in the whole scheme of
things

[danegod]

i think i found what i want to put in my CRX :)
02-?? Honda Integra Type R (JDM) 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC I-4 220HP K20A FE, FWD

think its possible? or would it cost lots of $$$

by the way i have a '91 CRX HF. all stock, i have the 1.4 motor in mine, so im pushing 65 70 horses tops... :(

[-TJ]

anything is possible with enough time money and talent, but you would be FAR better off building a B20 motor from the first gen. CRV.

[Cheio]

Originally posted by danegod
i think i found what i want to put in my CRX :)
02-?? Honda Integra Type R (JDM) 2.0L DOHC i-VTEC I-4 220HP K20A FE, FWD

think its possible? or would it cost lots of $$$

by the way i have a '91 CRX HF. all stock, i have the 1.4 motor in mine, so im pushing 65 70 horses tops... :(

Of course it's possible. Here's the problem. The motor is 5,000 - 10,000 dollars alone. There's no motor mounts for it so you would have to fabricate it yourself. Not to mention wiring would be a bitch. + you have to make custom brackets for the shift linkage. It would be a lot better to just get B18c5 with LSD and put it in there. There would really be no need for a k20 in a CRX.

**Edit: Theres an EK with a K20 already in it. Search http://www.honda-tech.com to find some information on it. If you're serious you can find the call the guy and see if he has any info you would need. (I imagine you'd need a lot no offence against you).

[danegod]

i wasnt too serious about it really, i dont have nearly enough $$$ to even buy a motor like that. ill be lucky if i can afford a D16a engine, 1.6L DOHC W/ 100k miles on it. ($500 with tranny)
the guys ive been talking to about it, says it has about 120 Hp, all stock.

[Cheio]

Originally posted by danegod
i wasnt too serious about it really, i dont have nearly enough $$$ to even buy a motor like that. ill be lucky if i can afford a D16a engine, 1.6L DOHC W/ 100k miles on it. ($500 with tranny)
the guys ive been talking to about it, says it has about 120 Hp, all stock.

D16Z6 1.6L SOHC VTEC 92-95 Civic EX/Si 125hp
D16Y5 1.6L SOHC VTEC-E 96-00 Civic HX 115hp
D16Y8 1.6L SOHC VTEC 96+ Civic EX 127hp

Depends on which one you get. If you want the differences it's pretty much Cams and Combustion chamber shape differences. If you want more info PM me.

[HyBrIdReX12]

JUSS WONDERIN HOW MUCH HP WILL A VTEC HEAD GIVE U IF U HAVE A D15 MOTOR? CUZ IM PLANIN 2 DROP IN A VTEC HEAD AS A TEMP HP ADDER TILL I GET MAH BIGGER MOTOR. N ALSO DO I NEED 2 CHANGE MAH ECU 2 CUZ IMMA HAVE A VTEC?

[Mario]

Originally posted by HyBrIdReX12
JUSS WONDERIN HOW MUCH HP WILL A VTEC HEAD GIVE U IF U HAVE A D15 MOTOR? CUZ IM PLANIN 2 DROP IN A VTEC HEAD AS A TEMP HP ADDER TILL I GET MAH BIGGER MOTOR. N ALSO DO I NEED 2 CHANGE MAH ECU 2 CUZ IMMA HAVE A VTEC?

http://www.madoriene.com/englishmaterialp/learn%20to%20speak%20english.jpg

[stu]

Originally posted by HyBrIdReX12
JUSS WONDERIN HOW MUCH HP WILL A VTEC HEAD GIVE U IF U HAVE A D15 MOTOR? CUZ IM PLANIN 2 DROP IN A VTEC HEAD AS A TEMP HP ADDER TILL I GET MAH BIGGER MOTOR. N ALSO DO I NEED 2 CHANGE MAH ECU 2 CUZ IMMA HAVE A VTEC?
When you learn how to not write like a wanna be idiot, maybe someone will answer your question, but probably not even then. Why don't you try calling Miss Cleo?

[crxrocks]

Originally posted by HyBrIdReX12
JUSS WONDERIN HOW MUCH HP WILL A VTEC HEAD GIVE U IF U HAVE A D15 MOTOR? CUZ IM PLANIN 2 DROP IN A VTEC HEAD AS A TEMP HP ADDER TILL I GET MAH BIGGER MOTOR. N ALSO DO I NEED 2 CHANGE MAH ECU 2 CUZ IMMA HAVE A VTEC?

Which D15? Some of the D15's only came with a 8 valve head (2 per cylinder) and the pistons only have two valve reliefs. If you put a 16 valve, VTEC head on without swaping out the pistons, you will have bent valves.

Chris

[HyBrIdReX12]

i have the 16 valve d15 motor. is that ok to drop in a vtec head on it? will that bent my valves still?

[evovle78]

i've got a 90 crx with a B16a,
let me start by saying the motor has plenty of power
with the rebuilt bullet-proof head and hised compression.

the bad the is the emissions in oregon a very tight and
for now it just sit in the garage. If you do go with a B16a
be sure to find a SIR 2 as apose to an SIR 1
SIR 2 has OBD 2 emissions which is easier to pass
emissions.

i wouldn't do an H22 simply because you don't need that
much power in a crx unless it's full race.

plus the H22 is 800 LBS. heavier than a B16 or B18:p

[stu]

Since when has there been a limit on how much power you can have in a car?

[Mario]

Originally posted by evovle78

i wouldn't do an H22 simply because you don't need that
much power in a crx unless it's full race.


Good thing you don't work at a performance shop. :rolleyes: Honestly, we should all buy 50hp Geo's then.

[danegod]

Originally posted by stu
Since when has there been a limit on how much power you can have in a car?

:werd:

[danegod]

someone told me that as long you drop a motor of the same year or newer, all you have to do is register that newer motor as a replacement for your old one. i.e. put a '92 B18 in a '91 CRX. then register that new '92 motor as your new motor. then for smog wont they have to go by the standards for the year engine? i know you cant put a older motor in. but shouldnt a new motor be cool?

correct me if im wrong

[dippincrx]

i wouldnt got h22a due to the fact that it isnt a drop in motor youll have to have brackets welded and the fire wall smashed in. if your going low budget id go b18 from the integra. the single cam vtec isnt as effective. if your willing to put up good money id go crv/vtec. ive seen a civic hatch run 12.6 all motor with this swap and if you decided to build for boost theres no telling how fast it would go

[Mario]

Originally posted by dippincrx
i wouldnt got h22a due to the fact that it isnt a drop in motor youll have to have brackets welded and the fire wall smashed in. if your going low budget id go b18 from the integra. the single cam vtec isnt as effective. if your willing to put up good money id go crv/vtec. ive seen a civic hatch run 12.6 all motor with this swap and if you decided to build for boost theres no telling how fast it would go

Well, I am prolly gonna do ZC.. for the price factor. I'll build that motor up, maybe do a small turbo project so I can get the feel for things. By then, I'll have done a swap and turbo, so I'll have had some experience. I would love to do a CRVTEC but it'd be too much money to do it right...

[danegod]

agreed

ive come to the conclusion that i just want a daily driver that can run 14's if it wants too.

[oldskoolracer]

i hav a zc, no real mods other than the motor, but you can
get a b16a1 and do what ever you want and there's 30 extra
horses under the hood before mods

spend the money you'll regret the zc after a couple of months

[Cheio]

I've been telling him that same thing forever now.

[oldskoolracer]

there's only so much i can do with my zc, but it's just the first step
in many. i was impressed with who i could beat but ther's a level
you just can't go to with the zc 14's in this altitude is very hard
if i was still in kansas i could but still not going to so much trouble
the lower end is weak you'll blow bearings on a regular, i've done
ny homework, if you get a zc, buy a bseries block to put your
real money into that's an idea

[AgressivMX3]

I just read that you can put a Laser engine in a crx, I have an '86 crx si(blown engine) and a wrecked '93 Laser, are you saying that the DSM(Laser) engine will fit into my crx?

[JDMCrx89]

damn, this thread has hella posts anyway, i have a d16a6 motor and chrome valve cover FS, if anyones intrested,

anyways

that motor put me in the 15's shockinly, with hyper ground wire, aem short ram, magnacore racing wires, ngk plugs, valvoline synthetic oil, and a hella worn out stock clutch. so anyone that things stock motors cant hang, you shouldnt give up. i junked the motor tho, i bent the 3rd rod so if anyone wants to pick it up and fix that its avail.

right now a buddy of mine is holdin his gsr motor for me for 800 (should i pick this up read on for probs known), its been hyrolocked 3 times, other then that nothings been done to it. it has a built head and a worn clutch with bad syncros, i was thinkin of installin a skunk2 head package and gettin stage 2 high comp pistons for another 2000 and have a street monster in my crx.
btw the gsr has a supercharger and it runs 12.8 with slicks 13.6 with street tires. so i dont think theres anything really wrong with the motor. 800 for complete swap minus supercharger.

then theres the zc turbo, im really intrested in this idea, so anyone thats done it, hit me up with a pm, and fill me in please.

[Mario]

A Prelude recently hydrolocked on another forum I visit... he ran a compression test, it was like Cyl 1= 5, Cyl 2= 20, Cyl 3= 90, Cyl 4= 185 - something similar to those numbers.

Yes, you can turbo a ZC - www.homemadeturbo.com

[JDMCrx89]

was that bad or good mario ? who runs compression tests? ima get him to take his car there and pay for it.

[Mario]

All 4 of your cylinders should be really close in level... that particular car is good at around 185 if I remember correctly - so yea, his other 3 cylinders are shot.

[JDMCrx89]

ouch, but i think my friends works fine, doesnt seem to be slow, ill get a compression test. but if there is bad compression, what can i do to fix it?

[crxrocks]

Originally posted by JDMCrx89
ouch, but i think my friends works fine, doesnt seem to be slow, ill get a compression test. but if there is bad compression, what can i do to fix it?

You can do a compression test by yourself at home, you just need the tool. You can get it at Sears/Autozone/etc.

Chris

[JDMCrx89]

hey chris, hows the zc holding up? what ur track times? i might do a zc, cuz it leaves me more room to upgrade.

[HondasTrail]

Its a proven fact that if a b16 and ZC go at it (in the 1/4 mile) and both are all motor; the ZC will leave the b16 in the dirt. I have a friend that has an '89 HF and the best time ive seen him run all motor was 16.2 (I didnt get to see him go last wed at PMI so i have no idea if he ran better) Im sure if your pretty good at shifting you can get this number in the high 15's.

I know it might be a little late to post here in this section, and I know I just registered here... So the tid bit of info i just provided might not be under your consideration right now. However I just couldnt be left out of this conversation without leaving my two cents:)

[Cheio]

Originally posted by HondasTrail
Its a proven fact that if a b16 and ZC go at it (in the 1/4 mile) and both are all motor; the ZC will leave the b16 in the dirt. I have a friend that has an '89 HF and the best time ive seen him run all motor was 16.2 (I didnt get to see him go last wed at PMI so i have no idea if he ran better) Im sure if your pretty good at shifting you can get this number in the high 15's.

I know it might be a little late to post here in this section, and I know I just registered here... So the tid bit of info i just provided might not be under your consideration right now. However I just couldnt be left out of this conversation without leaving my two cents:)

Proven Fact? Funny... my roommate in his b16 hatch ran 15.7 all motor. He ran 14.7 on 5 psi out of a t25 on it.

[HondasTrail]

Whered he run the 15.7 all motor id like to know? I also think i wanted to put beat it off the line i just forgot

[stu]

Proven fact? Yeah whatever. :rolleyes:

[Cheio]

At Bandi. And beating off the line is all driver...

[JDMCrx89]

well

i know our crx b16s run average low 14s
and zc crxs mid to high 14's

but this all depends on what condition the motor is in, what parts were installed, ect ect, u cant make a real judgement on what motor is better, but i know the b16a has more potential.