DSMers...

[nate9213]

Can you please post what you had done to your car to get into the mid 14's and also the high/mid 13's.

[V8SpankR]

My car ran a 14.41 with just an intake/exhaust and a boost controller set at 16psi back in '98 and recently my friend ran a 13.99 with just the I/E and a mbc set at 16psi also.

Realistically your stock clutch won't hold long after the boost is raised and you will need some type of fuel control to make a little more power and keep it reliable. Just slapping on a boost controller with a fuel pump can make the car run 13s but it's not advisable for longevity.

This last year I put on an 18g turbo and ran a 13.3@101 at just 17psi and the stock fuel system and it ran it consistently with no trouble. I ran 101 unleaded for extra protection from knock.

My mods from last year were:
K&N/DejonTool intake and DSS upper IC pipe
18g boost controlled by an Extreme MBC
2.5" DP/test pipe/60 mm HKS cat back
Apex S-AFC tuned with a Pocketlogger datalogger
ACT 2600lb clutch

I now have a high flow fuel pump and 550cc injectors and will be boosting 20+psi so I hope to hit at least a 12.8 but the stock IC is my next roadblock.

[Dallas J]

Right now I have for go fast mods

-B16g
-RRE Upper/Lower/J pipe. IC piping.
-Evo Mani ported
-3" Thermal
-2.5" Downpipe/ Test pipe(in the mail)
-Centerforce clutch
-fidanza flywheel
-JoeP mbc
-Walbro 255

DSM link should be here next week. I should be in the mid 13s range with all the extra little weight pulled out of my car.

-Dallas J

[john]

You can run 13s on the stock turbo, stock IC, and stock fuel. Open up the exhaust plumbing some (catless downpipe, free flowing catback), up the boost, burn 101 octane, rewire the fuel pump, add some fuel control & a 2g MAF and launch it like you hate it.

Unless it's an automatic, then forget it.

[Dallas J]

Originally posted by john


Unless it's an automatic, then forget it.

Or a 2g...

-Dallas J

[nate9213]

How much boost can the 14b handle with a 195lph fuel pump and and Apex AFC with the Pocket Logger and all the basics (IC Pipe, exhaust, intake, boost controler...)?

[Dallas J]

at this altitude not too much. You might be able to hold around 19psi to red line, but at that point youll just be pushing hot air.

-Dallas J

[nate9213]

So I would be able to run 16-18psi reliably with the mods that I listed above? I have done much research on the DSM websites but I just wanted to know first hand from people at this altitude.
What do you guys think about the Dave Brode UICP?

[Dallas J]

yeah, when i pull the B16g off of my laser and put a 14b on it i ran 17psi daily with just a rewire...Everything was stock but the MBC and K&N...

The Dave Brode IC pipe is a good cheap pipe.

Check out DSMReviews.com or org...they have some info from buyers about products.

-Dallas J

[deadly dsm]

First run at the track she ran a 12.8 on 91 octane pump gas, but I waited on purpose, I already knew what others were doing and with what. So 13's and 14's need minimal mods and decent driving.

Even with an HKS fmic I found that 17 psi was it for the 14b; as verified with a PocketLogger. Anymore than that and I had to go really rich to suppress knock counts. This was with 91 octane.

A bigger fuel pump isn't necessary until later up here. Just do a rewire of the stock one. See Paul's post and experience.

The Dave Brode UIC pipe rocks. Very nice and you can paint it any color you want. I have one sitting around here, it's going on our other Talon (hers) one of these days.

If you're going to use it with the stock smic I'd recommend getting a decent silicone coupler that'll really fit between the pipe and the smic correctly. HomeDepot has something that will work, but it's not perfect.

I'd also highly recommend Dave Brode's custom TB elbow. It looks way better than the 2g part. That piece is still on my car.

[nate9213]

Thanks for the help. For the past few days I have been raiding the DSM websites trying to learn as much as possible. Each day I have more and more respect for them. I am just hoping that everything works out and I am able to buy one. Let me know if any of you guys see a 92-94 Eclipse/Talon AWD for sale at a dealership. Thanks.

[V8SpankR]

What price range? There are a couple of 1st gens on the dsmtrader,a '93 with minimal stuff on it for about $5k (96k miles) and a '92 Talon with a butt load of mods for $6100.

A car that's in good shape will cost a bit while a $2-3000 example might be kinda ratty and need some fix-its. Shop wisely and be thorough when checking out any DSM.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by john
You can run 13s on the stock turbo, stock IC, and stock fuel. Open up the exhaust plumbing some (catless downpipe, free flowing catback), up the boost, burn 101 octane, rewire the fuel pump, add some fuel control & a 2g MAF and launch it like you hate it.

Unless it's an automatic, then forget it. thats what I did to my dsm, it worked cept for small 16g which flows a little more than a 14b. 13.94 lowest et 98.8 highest mph and 1.790 best 60' in my late dsm

[oldskoolracer]

start off by driving to see level,downpipe catback echaust, etc
on dsm's the basics make a big difference

[john]

Not only DSMs, but any turbocharged from the factory car. You'd be amazed at what a couple hundred dollars worth of 'stuff' from various sources (home depot comes to mind) will do.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by john
Not only DSMs, but any turbocharged from the factory car. You'd be amazed at what a couple hundred dollars worth of 'stuff' from various sources (home depot comes to mind) will do. Johns right, you can get sick with it at home depot. Thats what Im about to do, a ram air duct into my factory airbox mod on my volvo should cost me about 5$ once I paint it and all and along with a k&n drop in should net good hp per dollar gains.
also by retaining the factory airbox I will eliminate sucking in hot air from the engine compartment.

[nate9213]

My price range is up to $7000, but I need to buy from a dealership for the financing. I know this has been discussed millions of times, but is there really a big differance between the small 16g and big 16g at 18psi.

[deadly dsm]

Originally posted by nate9213
is there really a big differance between the small 16g and big 16g at 18psi.

You'd think there would be, but the truth be told, regular 16g's have gone just as fast as the big 16g's. The big 16g has never proven it was worth the extra $$.

Nowdays, Forced Performance makes a "sleeper" 16g, lol. It's supposed to be a pretty bad-assed turbo for "just" a 16g, hehe. I think it's noticeable on the dsmtimes list.
edit - I forgot it was on the Galant times list. Here's the info:

11.474
119.08
7.306 96.96 1.596
91 Galant VR4
Sleeper 16g
NO Nitrous
Victor Brant 07/20/01 Norwalk

Not bad for a 16g, eh?!

[darkturbo]

I know a guy selling a 91 GSX eclipse thats white 5-speed for like 3300 but it is completely stock.

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by darkturbo
but it is completely stock.


That's usually better. ;)

[darkturbo]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
That's usually better. ;) I agree. I always buy my cars stock because most of the time they will be in much better condition.

[lil_miss_dsm]

A few good place to find DSM's at dealerships would be AutoTrader.com and Vehix.com

[ryanman]

Originally posted by john


Unless it's an automatic, then forget it. Umm, my first GSX was an auto and it was actually a good car and made a good bracket car. Here's a list of my mods I had on it: 2G pistons, 2G exh. manifold, 2G dumped o2 housing, gutted cat, Vatozone APC muffler, EVERYTHING ported out pretty good (head,mani,exh,o2,turbo,etc.), 14B turbo with 80K miles on it, Joe-P mbc running 16psi, K&N filter, gutted mas, and it would run a 13.1@105 everytime I went down the track. Oh I forgot the carbonfiber shifter.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by ryanman
Umm, my first GSX was an auto and it was actually a good car and made a good bracket car. Here's a list of my mods I had on it: 2G pistons, 2G exh. manifold, 2G dumped o2 housing, gutted cat, Vatozone APC muffler, EVERYTHING ported out pretty good (head,mani,exh,o2,turbo,etc.), 14B turbo with 80K miles on it, Joe-P mbc running 16psi, K&N filter, gutted mas, and it would run a 13.1@105 everytime I went down the track. Oh I forgot the carbonfiber shifter. thats pretty good, I met a kid that was nailing 2.0 60's and running mid 14's on an auto talon up here with mild bolt ons.

[ryanman]

Originally posted by DnVr
thats pretty good, I met a kid that was nailing 2.0 60's and running mid 14's on an auto talon up here with mild bolt ons. I'd normally hit a 1.9 but if I didn't have time to let the tranny cool in between runs i'd start hitting around 1.95's. Thats the thing I liked about the auto was that you could brake boost it but it was hell on the tranny. I went through 3 trannies in 2 months of bracket racing.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by ryanman
I'd normally hit a 1.9 but if I didn't have time to let the tranny cool in between runs i'd start hitting around 1.95's. Thats the thing I liked about the auto was that you could brake boost it but it was hell on the tranny. I went through 3 trannies in 2 months of bracket racing. damn, 3 trannies, I think Ill just save my auto tranny, screw the launch and try to make up for it in top end power and trap speeds. power braking doesnt work real well in my car but if I just mash the gas at stoplights the front wheels break loose pretty good and I get some mad torque steer.

[sbiggi]

We ran 15.3 a couple times with my brothers auto Talon with a boost controller, fuel pump, catback, and a testpipe @ 17 psi.... we killed the tranny. We would consistantly pull 2.2 60', and I hit a couple 2.0's

Now we have 8.8:1 Weisco Pistons, Eagle Rods, Fuel Pump, ReWire, Exhaust, Boost Controller, Shift Kit, and a Big Ass Tranny Cooler.... so we hope to run 13's but we dont know yet...the auto tranny saps the power

[BatmanGSX]

K&N - $45
Blaha MAS - $5.50 (homemade) or $120 (authentic model)
3" MAS Pipe - $75 from RRE
MBC - $10 from Home Depot Motorsports
Gutted Cat - Free
Junkyard 18G - $275
Walboro 255 - $110
Mud and Snow Tires - Not required for mid 13s

13.4@102 on 116 octane

I should have dropped the exhaust and upped the fuel pressure with the B&M Command Flo I had sitting around. With that and good tires I bet it would have done 12s@105ish. That's complete bench racing of course.

[V8SpankR]

DSMs can be run cheap but reliability becomes an issue if you want to continue running good times. A real clutch and fuel control go along ways.

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
DSMs can be run cheap but reliability becomes an issue

I never had problems. Compression was always fine. Reliabilityshmiability, we're building racecars.

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
I never had problems. Compression was always fine. Reliabilityshmiability, we're building racecars.

You didn't continue to run it in that trim as it couldn't have handled it. Is that motor still around or did it blowup? ;)

It would be nice to have my car just as a race car but I like having my car available to drive at anytime instead of sitting in a garage torn apart 8 months out of the year.

I for one can't afford to keep "rebuilding" my car as I do have other priorities and a not so deep wallet. I've slowly modded my car and it rarely misses a race at Bandi. With minimal mods my car couldn't have made 60 passes a year with out something blowing up.
Maybe you're just lucky and I was very impressed with your 13.4 on a 18g turbo,fuel pump and a few tweaks but my car has withstood 16psi of boost since '97 ('96 it was stock and that was 75k ago) and over 350 runs and going into it's 8th season of racing,no other DSM in the state (or any other) has seen more track time at Bandi than mine.
This is the year I will finally push the turbo since now I have the parts to make some horsepower that could do some damage. Hope to see easy 12s and never have to be flatbedded home.


You gonna see 11s this year or are the DSMs in this state gonna run 12 flats.....again?:)

[nate9213]

The thought of how fast you guys are building these things with minimal money is very enticing. But I am only 16 and have been quoted $260 for insurance plus have to save for collage so puying mad mounts of money on repairs and insurance is not good. So Now I am looking for an Integra or 240SX since they are more reliable. I can't wait until Bandi open and for the next Lunchon so I can meet you guys and check out your cars. Good luck with your buildups.

[BatmanGSX]

I don't think a 240 is more reliable than a DSM. I put 20K on my car in 6 months with NO problems. It was stock. And stock it was faster than those other cars would be when mildly modded.

[nate9213]

Why don't you think the 240 is a reliable car? I was under the impression that Nissans don't last as long as Hondas but are close.

[BatmanGSX]

No. Nissans suck. Toyota and Honda are the best. Nissan, Mitsu and Mazda suck. But DSMs aren't that bad. 1Gs are pretty simple. Not much to go really wrong until you are making huge ammounts of power. Huge.

[shane]

Uhh no Nissans do not suck.

[john]

But an automatic will never be fast, unless you go with a built aftermarket tranny.


Originally posted by ryanman
Umm, my first GSX was an auto and it was actually a good car and made a good bracket car. Here's a list of my mods I had on it: 2G pistons, 2G exh. manifold, 2G dumped o2 housing, gutted cat, Vatozone APC muffler, EVERYTHING ported out pretty good (head,mani,exh,o2,turbo,etc.), 14B turbo with 80K miles on it, Joe-P mbc running 16psi, K&N filter, gutted mas, and it would run a 13.1@105 everytime I went down the track. Oh I forgot the carbonfiber shifter.

[shane]

Hey!!! i have an automatic :(

[MadMaxine]

Originally posted by nate9213
Why don't you think the 240 is a reliable car? I was under the impression that Nissans don't last as long as Hondas but are close.

my 86 nissan 300zx have over 170,000 right now. they last a long time. though it's about due for an engine rebuild.

[lithium398]

my 86 nissan 300zx have over 170,000 right now. they last a long time. though it's about due for an engine rebuild.

ive seen a 90's 300zx with over 500,000 miles on it. fuck whoever says nissans suck. i am trying to save about 10 grand by the end of this year and sell my piece of crap car... i really want to buy a twin turbo 300zx with t-tops.... but if theres a better, faster car for the same money, u tell me.

and hondas are terrible. my shit-car has beaten every single rice-burner i have encountered.

-Mercury Mystique '96 (175HP) lol ;RoCkOn;

[V8SpankR]

I like 300Z turbos but they are costly to fix and mod and for the same money a DSM will be faster.

[92GVR4]

My car runs low 14's with jdm tranny 2100 clutch super AVC-R and intake...go figure...



GVR4#61/1000

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by 92GVR4
My car runs low 14's with jdm tranny 2100 clutch super AVC-R and intake...go figure...



GVR4#61/1000

That would be a high 14/low 15 up here.

[92GVR4]

thing is...im not there hehehehehehehehe