View Full Version : New Neon Owning a WRX(video inside)
Brian
03-02-2003, 08:50 PM
The neon is bone stock, as is the WRX. The Tallon has a boost controller, exhaust and some other goodies.
http://staff.tcu.edu/jaltschul/SRT-4vsWRX_vs_Talon.WMV
Here is a dyno of a Stock SRT-4. Looks like Dodge underrater their power by a large amount
http://www.o-t.us/upload/guest/srt4dynoyo.jpg
TedR719
03-02-2003, 09:01 PM
Nice find, I thought the WRX had them for a second untill that thing just pulled out of no where :)
The neon also had 3 people in the car...
bikenski
03-02-2003, 09:52 PM
That Neon is a sweet car for $20k! If that dyno isn't just a fluke, and if they're all coming out of the factory with those kind of numbers, that's going to be quite a contender.
Are they torque limited in 1st gear? I can't imagine being able to get any traction whatsoever if all that power goes to the front wheels off the line.
SinisterWRX
03-02-2003, 09:58 PM
yeah from a roll I'd expect that. Front end of the neon looks like a Lancer.
And they're keeping the A/F ratio on the piggishly rich side too. Gobs of power there with some proper tuning...
TXKompressor
03-02-2003, 10:03 PM
One car to be aware of. this is a car I would actually enjoy losing to.., well maybe.
Talus
03-02-2003, 10:08 PM
How long have those been on the road? Is the SRT-4 an '03 model? It's about time the domestics got their heads out of their asses.
2000SiVTEC
03-02-2003, 10:22 PM
That car rocks! I kinda want one............
Hellified SH
03-02-2003, 10:39 PM
Damn I need get one to me my daily driver....
95GSRB18C
03-02-2003, 11:37 PM
i dont really care for neons but i gotta give the new turbo one some props.
I cant wait to race one of those.
We will be seeing them lay down 14 , 13 maybe even 12 second et's this year at bandimere.
V8SpankR
03-03-2003, 08:53 AM
I think a 14.9 is possible at Bandi with a good driver and 13s with a few more psi.
I'm sure we'll know it's limitations pretty quick once somebody up the boost.
02GTI1.8t
03-03-2003, 12:14 PM
i would hope a 14.9 is possible considering i ran a 15.1 stock with 40 less hp
V8SpankR
03-03-2003, 12:23 PM
Originally posted by 02GTI1.8t
i would hope a 14.9 is possible considering i ran a 15.1 stock with 40 less hp
If your car ran low 15 here it would run low 14 asl but why is it I've never seen any car rags ever even bust a 14 with one? Are you counting your car as stock with the chip to make over 200hp or are the mags just testing the 180hp version? Even SCC only ran a 15.1 out of the GTi and they know how to drive.
I'm not calling BS but I've just never seen it in an unbiased review. Maybe you have the factory freak since it doesn't seem common. Is your car TRULY stock? Factory rubber?
Steve,Brian? Care to help answer this?
I've seen a 13.9 out of a stock SRT4 asl so I figure a high 14 is what one will run here stock.
exciv2000
03-03-2003, 01:17 PM
Yeah the new neon turbos lay down impressive numbers in HP/TQ and in the 1320, it's just too bad it had to be in such an ugly car. I think I'd prefer the PT Bruiser turbo even though it's heavier over the neon... now if only it had all wheel drive.
Brian
03-03-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by V8SpankR
If your car ran low 15 here it would run low 14 asl but why is it I've never seen any car rags ever even bust a 14 with one? Are you counting your car as stock with the chip to make over 200hp or are the mags just testing the 180hp version? Even SCC only ran a 15.1 out of the GTi and they know how to drive.
I'm not calling BS but I've just never seen it in an unbiased review. Maybe you have the factory freak since it doesn't seem common. Is your car TRULY stock? Factory rubber?
Steve,Brian? Care to help answer this?
I've seen a 13.9 out of a stock SRT4 asl so I figure a high 14 is what one will run here stock.
All I can think of is that our ECU's compensate for altitude better than most. My car ran a low 15 stock. Jeff didn't have a chip or anything when he ran a 15.1. These VW's are hard to launch which is all I can think of as far as the car magazine times. I've seen a few guys get a 14.4 out of a stock 180 hp vw at sea level. Jeff's GTI even had stock tires, he was 100 percent stock when he pulled a 15.1. He ran a 13.9 with slicks and a chip at 4000 feet in Idaho. I think the neon will be good for a mid 14 up here stock. I think you will be surprised.
Brian
03-03-2003, 03:52 PM
Hell with just a chip and nothing else I pulled a 14.7 with a horrible 2.6x 60 foot. Chipped a GTI should be able to pull a mid 14 easy up here, and even chipped a neon has 20 hp on us and about the same torque.
02GTI1.8t
03-03-2003, 05:45 PM
yep 100% stock. maybe it is the factory freak, i wont complain:D I think its a matter of launching the car properly. it is very hard to launch, as brian stated, i somehow managed to pull a 2.2 stock and thats the reason for the good times.
I also think the srt-4 will run faster than 13.9 with a good driver. heck they were getting 102 mph traps, so with practice i could see a 13.7 at sea level. I bet someone could run mid 14's at bandimere
Originally posted by 1EightT
I think the neon will be good for a mid 14 up here stock. I think you will be surprised. Im with v8spankr on this one. I dont think a stock one will better 14.90
2000SiVTEC
03-03-2003, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by DnVr
Im with v8spankr on this one. I dont think a stock one will better 14.90
I do....They are lighter than our cars and more powerful.
gjcivic
03-03-2003, 08:03 PM
DAMN YOU DODGE....DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!
Originally posted by 2000SiVTEC
I do....They are lighter than our cars and more powerful. how heavy is the dodge and a gti?
Brian
03-03-2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by DnVr
how heavy is the dodge and a gti?
Both are 2900 lbs. The neon has 20 more hp than a chipped GTI. A chipped GTI pulls mid 14's easy.
Brian
03-03-2003, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by 1EightT
Both are about 2900 lbs with the neon being slightly lighter. The neon has 20 more hp than a chipped GTI. A chipped GTI pulls mid 14's easy.
what would be an average trap speed for a fwd car with a 14.5 et?
02GTI1.8t
03-03-2003, 08:55 PM
about 96-97 mph with a 2.2 60'
Originally posted by 02GTI1.8t
about 96-97 mph with a 2.2 60' Ok, so at 2900#
and 97 mph trap = 207 whp
using this formula
The Trap-speed method
This method uses the weight of the car and the speed at which the car completed the quarter-mile run.
The formula is: hp = weight * (speed / 234)3
anyone know the hp loss percentage due to altitude?
Brian
03-03-2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by DnVr
anyone know the hp loss percentage due to altitude?
Too many variables to calculate for a turbo car. Depends on turbo size, efficiency, boost level, ecu.
The wastegate should adust for altitude by giving the car an extra 3 psi, but the ecu may or may not allow for it. If the turbo is in the center island of it's efficiency at 16 psi, but the extra 3 psi puts it at the next ring, then the efficiency of the compressor will be much lower.
Originally posted by 1EightT
Too many variables to calculate for a turbo car. Depends on turbo size, efficiency, boost level, ecu.
The wastegate should adust for altitude by giving the car an extra 3 psi, but the ecu may or may not allow for it. If the turbo is in the center island of it's efficiency at 16 psi, but the extra 3 psi puts it at the next ring, then the efficiency of the compressor will be much lower. OK, you lost me here, this car is smart enough to suddenly give itself +3 psi at this altitude?
If so thats pretty cool because, theres less o2 up here so the stock fuel system should be able to handle it just fine
V8SpankR
03-04-2003, 08:46 AM
Ok,the ECU adjustment does make sense so I'll quit harrassing you VW guys,they are impressive cars for the money and mod very easily.
On the SRT4,the 13.9 was run by Automobile magazine and they do test cars in showroom trim with a full tank of gas so it may push a 14.6 up here with little gas and spare/tools removed.
Dallas J
03-04-2003, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by 1EightT
Both are 2900 lbs. The neon has 20 more hp than a chipped GTI. A chipped GTI pulls mid 14's easy.
Its hard to compare the HP numbers though cause the Chipped GTi's boost jumps up, then falls back off. The neon will hold what ever its set at all the way to redline. If they just added a boost controller to the neon then i wonder what itll push.
-Dallas J
whats the stock boost level?
Brian
03-04-2003, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by DnVr
OK, you lost me here, this car is smart enough to suddenly give itself +3 psi at this altitude?
If so thats pretty cool because, theres less o2 up here so the stock fuel system should be able to handle it just fine
Pretty much, yes, at least our VW's do. I make the exact same boost as the guys at sea level because our cars use a map and maf sensor, then the ecu adjusts accordingly by closing the wastegate farther. SO when I spike to 21 psi i'm really making around 24 (way out of my efficiency range).
I have no idea how much boost a neon makes, and my other thing about the ecu correcting for elevation is just speculation. The VW ecu does it, but who knows if the dodge ecu will.
Originally posted by 1EightT
Pretty much, yes, at least our VW's do. I make the exact same boost as the guys at sea level because our cars use a map and maf sensor, then the ecu adjusts accordingly by closing the wastegate farther. SO when I spike to 21 psi i'm really making around 24 (way out of my efficiency range).
I have no idea how much boost a neon makes, and my other thing about the ecu correcting for elevation is just speculation. The VW ecu does it, but who knows if the dodge ecu will. thanks for clearing that up and I'll give it a 14.79 on drag radials with a really good drag racer. after looking at all the info we've compiled here I think it will put down about 200 whp up here!:cool:
V8SpankR
03-04-2003, 12:06 PM
It has pretty good tires and is pulling 2.2 60's pretty handily so 14.7s on it's stock tires is my guess.
shane
03-04-2003, 12:51 PM
well i even looked into buying one, then i remembered it is built by dodge. the Neon itself is one of the most unreliable cars out there, give it some boost and that could only lead to more problems.
Also i found out that the turbo and exhaust manifold are ONE piece!!!!! what a great idea that is.
Dallas J
03-04-2003, 12:53 PM
Just for a reference, on my neon when it was turbo'd i could pull 2.2 60s on the stock 14" rim with the 185 size tires. Those tires a hard as a rock too. I would slip the clutch just enough to get the tires to be chirping all the way through first. Any more and it would spin. Any less and it would bogg. I imagine people could pull better with this car.
-Dallas J
V8SpankR
03-04-2003, 02:22 PM
Yes,it does have it's downfalls but it's all good for the performance scene as a whole,I'm glad we got past the issues in the '90s with all the turbo cars going on hiatus for a few years with new ones returning plus it makes people more interested in cars again and less about SUVs.
I would never own an SRT4 but it's still nice to see 4 bangers giving Mustang GTs a run.:)
TedR719
03-04-2003, 04:43 PM
What turbo does the neon sport?
Originally posted by futuresi
What turbo does the neon sport? 16g. the 16g peters out at around 325-350hp. there is going to be some really fast neons out there, it should be possible for them to hit mid to low 13's on the stock turbo.
BoraTurbo
03-04-2003, 09:56 PM
jeff ran 15.1 bone stock at bandi. The fastest bone stock 1.8t i know of ran 14.4@96 in cali. Katanagti ran 15.5 bone stock at bandi with the 150hp 1.8t.
Wrinkleboi
03-04-2003, 10:59 PM
yeah when i saw that vid over at clubwrx.net i had a tear in my eye...
well not really, but its gonna be tough giving up the crown of 'underdog' to this new neon. there is no doubt about it, its got plenty of hp stock and is certainly the right price.
oh well, time to mod my rex a bit more ;)
o-|-<) bryan
sbiggi
03-05-2003, 12:05 AM
god damn that neons got some go!! even if you get beat by one... its still a NEON, but seriously that car is cool
Brian
03-05-2003, 12:14 AM
Is that video here in Colorado? Look at the exit they turn off on. It's county line road. The guy talking at teh end sounds like a guy from here that has an RSX.
V8SpankR
03-05-2003, 09:16 AM
I'm sure every city has a County Line Road,you know how many Jefferson Counties I see,mostly on the side of cop cars on COPS!?
Dallas J
03-05-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by DnVr
16g. the 16g peters out at around 325-350hp. there is going to be some really fast neons out there, it should be possible for them to hit mid to low 13's on the stock turbo.
If people can hit a 11.9 with a 14b and 11.4 with a 16g, i know that the neon with some drag radials is gonna be capable of low 12s. I think itll be able to hit high 12s up here on stock turbo.
-Dallas J
BoraTurbo
03-05-2003, 10:38 AM
no, it will def. not hit 12's at bandi with the stock turbol. and who has run 11.9 on a 14b? they must have nitrous.
V8SpankR
03-05-2003, 11:19 AM
I think Dallas is talking about at sea level since the 14b record is held by Phil Beers but I know a 14b powered 1st gen did run a 12.9 up here but it was stripped and had some other tweeks for the purpose of hitting 12s.
Originally posted by Dallas J
If people can hit a 11.9 with a 14b and 11.4 with a 16g, i know that the neon with some drag radials is gonna be capable of low 12s. I think itll be able to hit high 12s up here on stock turbo.
-Dallas J I have a 16g on my 1g awd and I'll tell you this; it flows 500 cfm. the 16g will not floow enough air to propel a fwd into the 12's up here, its just not going to happen.
Originally posted by BoraTurbo
no, it will def. not hit 12's at bandi with the stock turbol. and who has run 11.9 on a 14b? they must have nitrous. the 14b car in question was probably ported to the max and stripped to bare nothingness
KatanaGTI
03-06-2003, 04:40 AM
Supposedly, the VW ECU compensates altitude up to 4000ft above sea level. Don't ask me how.
I don't understand how SCC only pulled a 15.5 out of a new GTI. I pulled that same number at Bandimere, with crappier tires, with 30 less hp and I don't know how much less tq. In another article they did, the one about the $20000 Quaife tranny, they listed some numbers and they listed a 3.0 60' out of the stock car. From drivers that claim they're professionals, I'd expect a lot better than that, but it does kinda explain the crappy times. That's why I really don't trust how fast a car is until I drive it.
Those new Neons are crazy quick. I'm expecting them to have a lot of problems though. I never trust a car it's first year in production (after the Tib's 7 trannies). All I know is I really really don't want to run slower than a stock SRT-4 at the track this year. I'm expecting they'll run 14.6-14.7 here with decent drivers, although I'm sure we'll see a lot of mid 15's at Imports this year.
I must be chipped by the start of the racing season cause I really don't want to loose to a stock Neon.
Demon Dakota
03-06-2003, 06:08 PM
Good old Dodge. Thank God someone in the domestic marketplace has their heads screwed on correctly.
Originally posted by Demon Dakota
Good old Dodge. Thank God someone in the domestic marketplace has their heads screwed on correctly. yeah it seems mopar has always been the manufacturer that listens to the end user and delivers.
Dallas J
03-06-2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by DnVr
the 14b car in question was probably ported to the max and stripped to bare nothingness
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/team/philb.htm
Heres one the guy in 2nd place for fastest time out of a 14b. No, not gutted, but lightend. He still has full interior. How much does your car weigh? Well this one weighs in around 2900lbs full weight..Thats with a full tank of gas, spare, and all the enemities. Take out all that BS, and get down to around 2700 (easy to get lower, if you want to really hit some good times). I also said with Drag radials. Go to neons.org where some of the smarter Neon owners are. Youll see that lots of people are hitting sub 2 sec. 60s with some drag radials. I hit 2.2s with stock tires.
People said you would never hit a 12 in a DSM with a stock turbo, but here with a good driver a few mods and some lightening Phil seems to be doing pretty good.
My main point here is that people totally under estimate how much loosing some weight can do for you. Also that You are underestimating the Neons stock turbo.
BTW, has anyone seen the 850 HP Neon SRT-4 in the new Modified yet?
-Dallas J
Demon Dakota
03-06-2003, 09:28 PM
Over 200 FWHP on a totally stock setup is pretty amazing, and even more so when you consider it's a domestic source. As much as I've hated Neons in the past (and I really love VW 1.8T cars), I've got to give them their props on putting out a compact supercar (for under $20K). Hell, my truck didn't put that much power to the rear wheels when it was dead stock (friggin auto tranny kills me). It was only 186 RWHP dead stock. Of course, that was before I went crazy on the DIY mods...
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