2.0 Liter GSR motor...

[allmotor_civic]

So for those of you who don't know (or don't care) I finally got my car up and running on the experimental Stroker GSR.

Setup as it stands:
B18C1 block
Arias 12.5:1 C/R 81.5mm pistons
Nuforms blockguard
95mm crank
Crower Rods (none of that LW crap either)
Crane "Mechanical Special" N/A camshafts
Port, Polished, and Port Matched PR3 head
Crane Dual Springs Titanium Retainers
Ferrera 7 degree Valve locks
STRC cam gears
Port matched Skunk2 manifold (I'm cheap, what can I say?)
Oversized Valves (keep ya guessing???)
310cc injectors
removed oil squirters
Bottom exit SMSP header (race)
Comptech Header (street)
Skunk2 ECU (ECU's are cool)
RSX Oil filter
B16 Tranny (open diff. sucks)
22 inch slicks (race)
1890lbs chassis (92 Civic HB)
Modified Iceman ramair scoop intake (race)
V-AFC
10 lb Flywheel
Racer-X Clutchmasters clutch
new (rebuilt) axles
etc.

It changed at bit during buildup (see Damn LS/VTEC's thread). Same specs except now it has a 1.46 rod ratio. Which should raise the torque curve higher into the RPM range. I have 940 miles left of break in, but I'll work overtime at getting those out the way. The Dyno will be the first place I go WOT, since I do work at one. I will post graphs ASAP, so long as this motor holds together. I have gotten word from friends in Cali that this setup is making more than 260whp on Skunk2 stage 2 cams in Cali so I have no doubt that I can make atleast 250 SAE WHP (and thats being conservitive). There a probably alot of things I am forgetting at this point, but I will try and keep this updated.
I also plan on attending a race in Las Vegas on March 15-16. The qualifying cut off for Allmotor at the last event was 12.30, so I hope to do better than that so I can make the big-show. But, this is all speculation, I know, so I will only claim what is currently fact. Which is that I am completely in over my head and will probably go retarded the minute I can actually DRIVE it.
Later,
Dan

[GimPin]

1890lbs chassis (92 Civic HB)

OMG that is almost half the weight of my car.... sounds like a sweet project!!!!! do you have any pictures???

[Brian]

Wow, awesome motor. Definetly post your dyno results and such.

[TedR719]

wow, that is one of a kind setup! Can't wait to see what it can lay down on the dyno...

[stu]

That's a pretty sweet set-up.

[Talus]

Sounds sweet. I have a lot of respect for high hp n/a small engines.

[Pang]

thats a sick setup. Post some dyno sheets

[AcuraBro]

wow dan, suprised you revealed the info. Couple-a-questions...

First, what kinda diff you got, and what tranny? Another thing I came up with is T-body? I was initially all about ITB's, but I think that you could get smoother airflow and pressure into the engine with a single, larger (68-70mm) T-body. I dunno, I guess it's all speculation until you bench-flow test it anyway.

Have you ever considered a solid rear axle too? I guess a lot of the N/A guys are using them, they make for much better launches.

But you're definatly doing everything right. Do you have the specs on the cams?

Keep up the nice work :)

[allmotor_civic]

Originally posted by AcuraBro
wow dan, suprised you revealed the info. Couple-a-questions...

First, what kinda diff you got, and what tranny? Another thing I came up with is T-body? I was initially all about ITB's, but I think that you could get smoother airflow and pressure into the engine with a single, larger (68-70mm) T-body. I dunno, I guess it's all speculation until you bench-flow test it anyway.

Have you ever considered a solid rear axle too? I guess a lot of the N/A guys are using them, they make for much better launches.

Do you have the specs on the cams?


I'm running the stock P30 off the shelf diff... It sucks, but I will be upgrading to something more suited to high RPM launches (i.e. Cusco 1-way or Quaife).
The Tranny is a YS1 (same gear ratios as a Hype...oops Type R) with a little something-something as for the final drive and pinion gear.
As for the ITB's, well they really only add HP at extremly high RPM. With this short rod/long stroke setup, RPM is my friend and my enemy. I don't want to deform the sleeves from to much piston speed and side to side friction. Yet, I still have a high revving VTEC head with huge cams (all the lobes are much larger than stock, mainly as far as duration). But the main reason people go ITB's is the throttle responce (if they know it or not).
So I'll be using a 65mm TB port matched to the Skunk2 intake manifold. This has the ability to flow over 650 cfm through the TB and each runner can carry about 230 cfm so I have more than enough flow. Considering CRVTEC's only consume about 450 cfm NA.
If I ever get that serious about strictly Drag (or strictly race I should say) I will invest in some LONG wheelie bars.
I do have specs on the cams...but I do have to have some secrets right? I'm not a sandbagger entirely, but I'm still not willing to reveal everything. Which is why I will most likely post my street setup HP and Ft/Lbs when I get dyno results. Always keep the competition guessing.

Originally posted by GimPin
...do you have any pictures???


Not yet, thanks for reminding me...I'll wash the car tomorrow sometime (along with the engine bay) and grab the Mavica and get some pics posted.

Brian, Ted, and TurboSi (sorry I haven't met you before so I apologize for using your SN),
I will definately post results the day I have 'em.

Stu and Talus,
Thanks, always nice to hear words of support.
Later,
Dan
"880 miles left"

[AcuraBro]

Word, good to hear you have plans for that LSD. Drag racing or not, I noticed a sizable difference from traction performance, esp. accelerating around corners w/ the stock "hype" LSD. I had a CTR Tranny w/ my old LS/VTEC set-up a while back. That LSD was really nice compared to open diff. The B16 tranny has the same ratios as the stock 96-97 Type R tranny, after 97, they got even closer gear ratios. Yeah, ITB's.... you're right, you'd have to get your pistons movign too quick w/ that stroke. I considered a stroker for my motor, but Tobi convinced me that it wouldn't really last very long w/ Turbo + N20. That thing would be toast w/in 3 mos. As far as the cams, I understand, you got to keep somethign secrect. I just hope you don't disappoint me. I looked at their website earlier, and it looks like they had a few set-ups that were less agressive than the ITR/CTR cams w/ less that ~240° duration, which I consider weak. BTW, I seriously approve of the SMSP header, that's in good taste. Oh, we've met in person, right? You help over at powerhouse, correct? And you gave me the T-shirt last summer at the race??? If I'm wrong, I appologize, becuase the fellas and I went out partying tonight, so forgive me. I'm still "affected" from the night's events.

[allmotor_civic]

Nah, your right...we met at Bandi...I hooked you up with a shirt from "some" shop. And yeah I work for Lance at Powerhouse Dyno.
Yeah, I have atleast 290 degrees (advertised) duration during VTEC. BTW though, Crane rates their cams more accurately @0.050" of lift then they do advertised duration. Crower rates their PN:63403 at 295 advertised when the duration @0.050" lift is 257 degrees. Crane advertises their stage 3's as having 278 degrees where the duration @0.050" lift is 254 degrees. So 3 degrees @0.050" lift is advertised as a 17 degrees difference? I think Crane is just trying not to over-hype their product, IMO.
But trust me I won't disappoint.
Yeah, the SMSP bottom-exit is so nice. I am going to get it jet-hot coated so it doesn't heat soak surrounding parts. I also am looking at a Moroso Vac-U-Pull which is like a modernized vacumm pump. Should help keep crankcase pressures at static air pressure or lower. This helps the rings seat much better (actually reducing friction within the cylinder). Which allows the motor to make much higher horsepower (15-20 on a 2.0 liter NA motor in theroy). So with all the trick NA stuff I'm working with, I shouldn't really have to worry about power. I'll be worring about traction and gear ratios.
Later,
Dan

[SleeperZ]

That is a very impressive setup. I have just a couple idle questions. Why did you eliminate oil squirters? They serve a very useful purpose in turbo engines keeping the pistons cool. And why are you running such short rods? I don't know much about engine geometry, but all I hear is long rods are the way to go, for side loading and improved torque reasons.

I don't have any experience with this stuff, and obviously the trap and the ET will prove it all. I'm just curious....

[AcuraBro]

I'll be answering the q's up in this piece....:D

Keeping or eliminating the oil squirters is always a long-debated (at least w/ hard-core guys like our buddy Dan here) issue. Some say the cooling and lubricating benefit is far reached, and the oil squirters should stay, others believe all that oil causes a lot of excess weight and drag on the pistons, rods, and crank, disallowing the motor to spin up as quick as desired. Dan is going with the 2nd option, which I've never met someone with cajones big enough to actually do it.

As for the other question, here's the A to that one. Honda's crank case isn't huge, so you can't stroke a motor soley on making the crank larger. To get all the increased displacement, you have to get a shorter rod to increase the displacement. You're right about the longer rods being more friendly on side-loading, but he's just going to have to take the good w/ the bad.

[Talonstylz]

wow, awesome setup youve got goin :) Should be extremely impressive come race day! Hope everything works out for ya :)

[TedR719]

SMSP = yummy

[allmotor_civic]

Yeah SMSP is sooo sweet...I fell in love from the picture on Erick's Racing. Now that I have it I'm even more in love. The welds are beautiful, the piping is truely unique as far as layout, SMSP gives buyers a O.D. reading and wall thicknesses, and I even have space to weld in my Vacumm Pump tube. All in all a wise purchase.
I also eliminated the squrters because the crank and rod assembaly would have hit them. The squrters rob more of the precious crank case space, so out they went. I also wanted to reduce rotating masses present in the block. Hence the balancing and blueprinting of block would serve it's purpose, instead of being thrown off by different amounts of oil on each piston (this still happens in a non-squirter block, but to a lesser extent).
As far as the rod lengths goes, I decided I couldn't afford a deck plate motor so I was stuck with stock deck height. When you opt for a longer stroke (in his case from 87.2mm to 95mm) you have to regain space for all that throw. I found a rod suitable to keep the piston from shooting out of the deck, which were shorter than the GSR rods (obviously). So the longer stroke and lack of unlimited fundage mandated the use of short rods.
Also long rods vs. short rod is really a debate about RPM and reliability. As for the side loading it's true that if you had a long rod motor and a short rod motor at a raised RPM level continuously, then the long rod motor would last longer (ceterus paribus). But, torque amounts is not the debate. Both motors will have the same area under the torque curve. Which explains why the debate actually exists. Short rod motors make torque peaks lower in the RPM range than long rod motors do. I am under the belief the RPM really stands for Ruins Peoples Motors. If you raise your RPM than there will be inherient negitive effects placed on the motor besides the higher piston speeds. Therefore in my case I am trying to make use of two opposite theories. Short rod block (low RPM torque) with radical VTEC camshaft profiles (high RPM torque). With ideal tuning and effeicency I should have a motor that has a flat torque curve (nearly). All of this is experimental though (I am going to my engineering classes for something right?), so there will most likely be some disappointing attribute about this setup (I have one already, 19 mpg during break-in).
Anyway, all of this posturing for all-motor power is really just a test of my skill (along with the guys who helped me build it) as a tuning dork. I just wanted to bring Colorado something that Cali has been doing for a while and prove boost isn't the only anwser at this altitude (even though boost is cool as hell too...).
Later,
Dan
"820 miles left"

[AcuraBro]

Originally posted by allmotor_civic
Nah, your right...we met at Bandi...I hooked you up with a shirt from "some" shop. And yeah I work for Lance at Powerhouse Dyno.
Dan

Yeah, that seems like a long time ago, probably wasn't though... I forgot which race it was exactly. I remember thinking, "who is this guy?" Sorry, heh.