PDA

View Full Version : 6th Gen Honda Accord Octane Analysis


lnferno
02-23-2003, 05:24 PM
Did you guys read this?

Car and Driver did an article showing that on the 6th gen Honda Accord V6s that you will actually lose 5 HP by using 91 octane -vs- 87.

I firmly believe that the reason for the lost power on the AV6 when running higher octane fuel is becuase of ignition timing issues. The AV6 is tuned and optimized for 87 octane fuel, and it does not adjust itself for other octane levels, so the amount of ignition advance is pretty much fixed on the AV6.

Higher octane fuels burn slower than lower octane ones (becuase the purpose of octane in fuel is to prevent combustion and not promote it), so to get maximum performance out of an engine running on a higher octane fuel than it was designed for you need to advance the timing so that the spark fires sooner. Doing this will allow the peak of the combustion cycle with the higher octane fuel to still occur at the piston's optimal point (90 degrees ATDC - After Top Dead Center).

Not advancing the timing when running a higher octane than an engine was designed for will cause the peak of the combustion cycle to occur after the optimal torque point (90 ATDC) and this is how you lose power. The peak combustion point might occur at something like 95 or 100 degrees ATDC which is not optimal.

Think of it like this.

You see a door that's open a crack, so instead of using the door knob and just pulling it open you push on the edge of the door towards the center of the door and let it open that way. As it opens you move your hand towards the outer edge of the door and push directly on the door instead of on its side.

When you're just starting to open that door, you have to put a lot more force on it to get it moving and rotating open than you do when your hand is on the side of the door on the outer edge and pushing directly on it. Pushing on the edge you don't have a lot of leverage.

So using 91 octane fuel on the AV6 forces the piston and connecting rod to sorta push on the edge of the crankshaft and not directly on its side. A similar amount of force is being applied between 87 and 91 octane, but becasue the timing is off with 91 octane, power as a whole is lost.

Don't put anything other than 87 octane fuel in your AV6!!!

95GSRB18C
02-23-2003, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the info, i'll have to tell my mom. :)

stu
02-23-2003, 07:46 PM
Awesome write up. Welcome to HAI!

lnferno
02-24-2003, 12:51 AM
If the manual says to use 91, then use 91. For the cars that run on 87, you better do some research to make sure adding premium fuel will actually help your car. Obviously, if you have a tweaked ECU, advanced timing, etc, you're fine, but if your stock, and your owner's manual says that you only need 87, then don't put anything higher than 87.

See, this is what the oil companies want you to think.

They want you to think that that expensive "premium" fuel is better for "your baby" and that you should treat your baby "right" with that yummy higher octane fuel that "your car craves and desires"

These psychological tactics that the oil companies employ work wonders, as they successfully brainwash people to the tune of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER YEAR worth of fuel that is a higher octane than necessary.

You can do your car, and the environment a favor by always filling up with a CLEANER BURNING FUEL such as Chevron, which has consistently been ranked among the cleanest fuels in the country. And no, premium fuel does not necessarily burn cleaner than regular.

The Federal Trade Commission now requires all oil company fuel ads for premium fuels to state something to the effect of:

"For cars specifically designed to take advantage of premium fuels only"

...or something like that in all of their ads becasue the majority of cars out there don't need higher octane fuels.

An interesting FTC article here (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm)

Okay, I'll get off my soapbox now. I better start drinking some herbal tea or something to calm my ass down ;)

Dustin
02-24-2003, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by lnferno

So using 91 octane fuel on the AV6 forces the piston and connecting rod to sorta push on the edge of the crankshaft and not directly on its side. A similar amount of force is being applied between 87 and 91 octane, but becasue the timing is off with 91 octane, power as a whole is lost.

This makes no sense. :confused:

stu
02-24-2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by Dustin
This makes no sense. :confused:

I think a better way to put it would be using a fan to open a door. The best way to open a door with a fan would be to have it as close as possible. But if you move the fan away from the door (slow down the burn in the combustion chamber) then your fan will be using the same effort, but with less work actually being done.

stu
02-24-2003, 01:49 PM
But I have a feeling that you know what you're talking about a lot more than I do, cause I can't even take a 10sec piss, let alone a pass at Bandi. ;)

Ashton
02-24-2003, 05:38 PM
ok im sorry but ive been a memeber at V6accord for a while and you basically STOLE that post.

theif!

it was posted months ago anyways.

Ashton
02-24-2003, 05:41 PM
http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2837&highlight=91

Ashton
02-24-2003, 05:41 PM
http://www.v6accord.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2519&highlight=91

lnferno
02-24-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by AV630
ok im sorry but ive been a memeber at V6accord for a while and you basically STOLE that post.

theif!

it was posted months ago anyways.

Did I ever said I wrote it?

Ashton
02-24-2003, 05:56 PM
you shouldve said that u borrowed it from somewhere else.. anyways good postin the info on another board :)

thief. lol jj

lnferno
02-24-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by AV630
you shouldve said that u borrowed it from somewhere else.. anyways good postin the info on another board :)

thief. lol jj

I know a lot of people on here are on that board is well which is why I asked anybody if they read it.