Turbo V8's [Archive] - High Altitude Imports

Brian

11-10-2002, 12:32 PM

Looks like a new project may be starting. The other day we thought we snapped the crank on my dad's camaro. It turns out that it was only the dampner on the front of teh block. The keyed tooth that holds it on the crank snapped. The front of that is what drives the blower so we thought we were in for a complete rebuild.

First plan is to replace the current heads with a set of dart aluminum heads. The rest of the engine is built for boost so that is the only added cost there. Now we have to decide if we want to go big single turbo, or smaller twins. Anyone with any experience in this area would be a big help. We're trying to get away with leaving the car carburated for now because a fuel injection kit is going to run at least a couple thousand.

HONDA GHANDI

11-10-2002, 12:52 PM

The carb has to be on the inlet side of the turbo. It is much more of an engineering nightmare to try to pressurize the carb than to just pull all incoming air through it. You may have best results witha single turbo and single carb. It all depends on the amount of boost your pops wants to shoot for. I have a little experience with carburated turboed vw sand rails and bugs.

Duece Bigalow

11-10-2002, 03:10 PM

A blow through set up is not all that bad, alot of jy stangs go this route!

SleeperZ

11-10-2002, 04:01 PM

Do not do a draw through. It may seem easier to build, but you will regret it. They have serious driveability and tuning issues. If you must do carbs, pressurize them. Then you can intercool and tune with good results.

As far as twin vs. single goes, if you are space restricted you may have to go with two small ones, as the plumbing gets difficult. Otherwise go with a big single for better spool up and simplicity.

ryanman

11-10-2002, 04:15 PM

I know a guy who has a old Ply. Belvedere with a carbureted twin turbo 440. I'll see if I can get ahold of him and you can talk to him and see what he's done. If you have AOL instant Messenger his name is Twinturbo440. Tell him ryanman from TRF told you about him.

HONDA GHANDI

11-10-2002, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by SleeperZ
Do not do a draw through. It may seem easier to build, but you will regret it. They have serious driveability and tuning issues. If you must do carbs, pressurize them. Then you can intercool and tune with good results.

Not always true. A holley can be set up differently for pull through conditions and can be very driveable. He already has a SC with holley setup so I doubt seriously it will need many (if any) modifications to the unit he has. The biggest problem is leaving the tubing and runners to the heads as short as possible to minimize fuel quench area. That is where pressurizing the entire carb would be beneficial. You can use a small manifold like a Victor Jr. or something of that nature. The other big problem I see with using a pressure "BOX" is access to the carb for neccesary adjustments at the track. Just my opinion though, simplicity isnt always the best route.

HONDA GHANDI

11-10-2002, 04:26 PM

I just found this, not very enlightening to our quandry but holy shit look at the size of that turbo. Oh yeah the car is fuel injected
http://www.y-t-g.com/tubechassis449.jpg

HONDA GHANDI

11-10-2002, 04:40 PM

Hey Brian, how much boost/hp is your dad looking for? I just found an article that said there are good results to be had from a blow throughHolley carb even without an enclosure up to 18 lbs! So maybe there isnt really a design issue at all.

stu

11-10-2002, 04:43 PM

I want to turbo my Beetle but I don't know how I would run any of the pipes, or where I would put an intercooler, or where I could get a manifold, or if I would leave the carbs out of the pressure or not.

Brian, someone on here posted that link to ebay that had a picture of an LS-1 that was turboed with a single. I know it is not like your dad's enigne, but it may be of some help. What year is your dad's car?

Brian

11-10-2002, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
Hey Brian, how much boost/hp is your dad looking for? I just found an article that said there are good results to be had from a blow throughHolley carb even without an enclosure up to 18 lbs! So maybe there isnt really a design issue at all.

He's looking at 600-800 hp. Nothing too insane. I think that could be had at 15-18 psi on a decent sized turbo.

stu, it's a 69 z28

Brian

11-10-2002, 05:58 PM

Here are some pics of the dampner and the big ass crack in it. The ket inside of it that keeps it from spinning on the crank sheared off. Luckily we pulled the key from the crank and there is no damage.

Brian

11-10-2002, 05:58 PM

Brian

11-10-2002, 05:59 PM

HONDA GHANDI

11-10-2002, 09:44 PM

Damn, lucky you guys caught it in time.

Brian

11-10-2002, 10:11 PM

For the past couple days we were pretty sure that the motor was toast. We were going to get the car dynoed on thursday. We swapped out teh upper pulley for a few more lbs of boost, then drove down to full up with a tank of race gas. We got halfway home and he hammered it. The car was hauling ass, but we felt the blower belt slip. We got home and tightened the tensioner a little. Everything looked fine. We got about a block fro mthe house and it felt like it slipped again. We pulled over and the belt was loose, but again everything looked fine. He started the car while I was looking unde rthe hood and that damn dampner was floating around all over the place. We were sure that the crank was snapped. We even talked to his tuner and he said 90 percent chance the crank went. My dad was bummed so we brought the car home and let it sit untill today when we lucked out and found that the engine is good :)

Dustin

11-11-2002, 08:28 AM

First of all you need to buy a good damper. A Fluidamper or ATI will do nicely.

I would do this...http://www.procharger.com/chevy.shtml

made for carbs.

BalticBlue93

11-11-2002, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
I just found this, not very enlightening to our quandry but holy shit look at the size of that turbo. Oh yeah the car is fuel injected
http://www.y-t-g.com/tubechassis449.jpg

HOLY SHIT!!! The turbo is a big as the motor...I bet there is some serious lag in that bitch. You punch it and have time to take a nap and make some lunch.

SleeperZ

11-11-2002, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
Not always true. A holley can be set up differently for pull through conditions and can be very driveable. He already has a SC with holley setup so I doubt seriously it will need many (if any) modifications to the unit he has. The biggest problem is leaving the tubing and runners to the heads as short as possible to minimize fuel quench area. That is where pressurizing the entire carb would be beneficial. You can use a small manifold like a Victor Jr. or something of that nature. The other big problem I see with using a pressure "BOX" is access to the carb for neccesary adjustments at the track. Just my opinion though, simplicity isnt always the best route.

Along that simplicity line, try to find a turbo seal that can withstand gasoline and manifold vacuum for any length of time. You will abandon the draw through technique. And if you plan on running 15-18 psi, you will need intercooling, impossible on a draw through. You would have to resort to water/alcohol injection to keep detonation away.

HONDA GHANDI

11-11-2002, 09:50 AM

I figured he wasnt planning on running any more than 6-8 but I guess if he wants 800 hp then its a moot point, its going to need much more than a simple bolt on kit.
IMHO the carbs should be scrapped if the turbo setup is going to be his next mod.

Brian

11-11-2002, 10:14 AM

A local tuner over at American speed is doing a turbo build on another carburated car. I'm not sure what they are doing different, but he said if my dad can wait 4 months they will have a good way of doing it figured out. I don't know, details were real sketchy, but they were talking about using a single 1000 cfm carb. After a while he will probably go fuel injected, but thats a few thousand dollars down the road.

HONDA GHANDI

11-11-2002, 10:58 AM

is he planning on having this thing ready to race next season?
Its a shame to do all that work on the sc and then scrap it already. Like Dustin said its probably just in need of a good damper and thats it.

Brian

11-13-2002, 11:56 AM

We replaced the damper last night and all is well again. He's going to pick up the Dart heads here in a week or two. They said that alone should add another 100-150 hp over the heads he's using now. From there we will see about a turbo setup ;).

The nice part is that he can sell the blower for 2k pretty easily. Everyone wants blowers, so that's a big chunk of the turbo cost right there.

2002jettavr6

11-13-2002, 12:03 PM

what size turbo is that it gigantic man

shortshorts03

11-13-2002, 12:15 PM

WOW! Turbo...mmmmmm

HONDA GHANDI

11-13-2002, 05:11 PM

Cool, Dart heads are the shizzzy. If I ever get serious about the civic I will prolly buy that Dart block and build a street sleeper.

Brian

11-13-2002, 05:25 PM

If his motor would have been toast he was thinking about a dart block. Cool stuff.

HONDA GHANDI

11-13-2002, 05:29 PM

dart block and some good aluminum heads and tons of tuning that is a low tensecond car. (depending of course on teh suspension)

95GSRB18C

11-13-2002, 05:47 PM

damn, all i can say is that's gonna be one powerful mother. :D

MichaelT

11-13-2002, 08:57 PM

Is your dads Z28 yellow with two big carbs sticking out of the hood?

Brian

11-14-2002, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by MichaelT
Is your dads Z28 yellow with two big carbs sticking out of the hood?

Yeah, that's the one. It's viper yellow with two black stripes down the center. He's at car shows almost every weekend, he goes over to the grocery warehouse all the time, and he drives it to work whenever it's nice out.

Dustin

11-14-2002, 08:24 AM

I have a Dart block ;)

b18cya-T

11-14-2002, 08:48 AM

check out this turbo v8 thread on h-t.com

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=333268

MichaelT

11-14-2002, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by 1EightT
Yeah, that's the one. It's viper yellow with two black stripes down the center. He's at car shows almost every weekend, he goes over to the grocery warehouse all the time, and he drives it to work whenever it's nice out.
I see that car almost every day driving on Boulder near Palmer. I see him cruising downtown while im at lunch.

Brian

11-14-2002, 06:08 PM

Yeah he works down there at Brown and Brown insurance.

stu

11-15-2002, 01:58 AM

Whoever was talking about whether or not to run the turbo before the carb, or after the carb. Could you explain the advantages and disadvantages of each one? Also, how each one is set up. I have seen a turbo on a carburated engine before, where there was some sort of box around the carb, and it went straight to the turbo inlet. I am planning on turboing my Beetle, so I was curious if I could get a little more info on the different setups I might use. Is there a link or something that might have some good info? Thanks, Stu

shane

11-15-2002, 06:54 AM

cesar

12-22-2003, 11:31 PM

FYI there is a certain Holley carb that with very few mods can be pressurized. when my brother in law was planning his twin turbo 302 he did some research and found that carb to be the best for a blow through. i can get some more info if you want.

by the way he went the fuel injected route, as should your dad.

for a 350 chevrolet
hy, in case to install the carb before the turbo, in that case could i use a non so specific model?? i mean a regular holley?? and how many cfm should i use, for a t3 or similar turbo. or i should use a bigger turbo?

i would apriciate any comments or recomendations