The battle of the Type R's

[QuarterMile]

Ok, so now I have done the battle of the Hatchs, but now, most of all this is one that has me thinking, What is the better motor, b18c ITR, or B16B CTR? what motor would be better if I was to go out and buy one today?

[K20eg]

Ive heard the B16B is a tad bit faster top end but the B18C has more torque obviously, Id personally go with the CTR motor cause Ive never seen one in person.

1997-2000 Civic Type R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_Type_R)[EK9]
Displacement: 1595 cc
Compression: 10.8:1
Bore: 81mm
Stroke: 77.4mm
Rod/Stroke ratio: 1.84:1
Power: 185 hp (137 kW) @ 8200 rpm & 118 ft·lbf (160 N·m) @ 7500 rpm
Redline: 9000 rpm
Transmission: S4C With LSD
Note: This engine uses the same block as the Integra Type R, which is taller than the B16a block, but with a crank the same stroke as the b16a. It uses longer rods to accommodate for this, which is why the Rod/Stroke ratio is higher than a standard b16.


JDM Honda Integra Type RPower:
200 hp (150 kW) @ 8,200 rpm
Rev-limit: 8,900 rpm
134 ft·lbf (182 N·m) @ 7,300 rpm
Transmission Type: 5-speed standard with LSD
Displacement: 1797 cc
Compression: 11.1:1
Bore: 81 mm (3.189")
Stroke: 87.2 mm (3.433")
Rod Length: 137.9 mm (5.429")
Rod/Stroke Ratio: 1.58
Transmission: J4D (96specR w/ LSD)N3E (98specR w/LSD)

[twistedimage]

i have had both. and they both perform well

[nicklk]

Kind of really depends on what car you are putting it in

[5thgenownr]

I like my D, but I know some day i am going to have to upgrade, and I too will face this delima when the time comes. Some of my thoughts have been the ITR or possibly the
H22. but who knows what i want to do, until going to boost the D and rock that for a while. But i like the B18c5 good motor.

[hrcDSM719]

I gotta say B16B here, just for the awe factor. Plus, a factory 9200rpm rev limit (factory PCT ecu, with chip 9500+ all day) gives me a semi....:) Plus, in my eyes, since no I4 Honda engine is a "torque monster", how much does it really matter. Not to mention most DOHC VTEC engines have their torque AND power peaks above 7K....torque aint doin sheit for you that high in the powerband.

B16B all the way. Super rare, super rev happy, couple grand cheaper than the B18C/r, and only around 15hp less. Sign me up!

[Deceptakhan]

There is no replacement for displacement. Even us Honda boys have figured that one out. Why else would every want to put in a b20 or k24 bottom end? But then again revs=horsepower.

B18C, b16B to be slower and impressive at the same time if that makes sense.

[cybergreencivic]

Ive had neither, but would prefer to own an ITR swap. I wouldnt complain about a CTR swap though either, as a friend has a supercharged one, and its deffinetly quick.

[twistedimage]

some one buy my ctr swap then

[mavvrik]

I've always been a fan of the ITR. I think I always will be too :) The motors seem pretty dead ass even, internals wise. The CTR does have a Redline of 9000 but the ITR is only down by 100rpm's. Idk, i think their pretty even, still gonna have to go with my ITR though :)

[turb0_tuned]

b18c ftw
boost will make it clear which motor is best

[twistedimage]

b18c ftw
boost will make it clear which motor is best

you are a noob. lets boost a 11.1 compresion motor...

[mmtmatrix]

really depends on what your plans are for the car/style of driving.
also what your goals are for the car

[hrcDSM719]

.....either way, VTEC owns you....

[thebluesky]

In thought only, if I were to build a hatch again I would do an H22 mated with a gsr transmission. Yes, the price for this kind of swap is astronomical, but it would be quick as all hell.

[mavvrik]

you are a noob. lets boost a 11.1 compresion motor...

Word. The compression on the CTR is perfect for boost.

I'm an "All motor kinda guy" ;) That's probably why I like the ITR more. Boost though, CTR fo sho

[J.Dub]

CTR+boost= BOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all four rods bye bye. When my buddy boosted his B16a it blew in a week not even getting on it more then 8 times..

[K20eg]

Its all in the tune!!!! Alota turbo guys down here are goin 11:1+ compression so they can run less boost and make the same power, if you get it tuned right there isnt a problem.

[J.Dub]

tune isn't gonna make the motor hold the boost a high compression motor under boost will blow. The LS is perfect for boost. hold crazy amounts of boost no problem with a good tune.

[hrcDSM719]

....you didnt read that very well did you, dub?

When boosting a high compression engine, you can run less boost, and with a GOOD TUNE, make the SAME POWER. Its been done, many many times, effectively. Your friend with the boosted B16a that lasted less than a week, prob didnt have it tuned, or tuned very well. Ive seen B16a's make damn near 500hp on stock internals, for almost a year, with a GOOD TUNE. Sure, higher compression engines arent going to take the same amount of boost as a lower compression engine, but its about power, not psi.

I wouldnt boost either engine, personally. But, im more of an ls/vtec kinda guy when it comes to boosting Bseries. The CTR and ITR are meant to be allmotor contenders. Rev happy, fun to drive, and reliable. Id LOVE to have a CTR in my DD. I think it'd be super sweet to have a reliable, near 200hp go kart for a daily....but thats jus me.

[Deceptakhan]

CTR+boost= BOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all four rods bye bye. When my buddy boosted his B16a it blew in a week not even getting on it more then 8 times..

I've seen a horse fly once. Does that mean ALL horses fly?

[twistedimage]

i am gonna boost my ctr but i am gonna put in a thicker headgasket. to drop the cr

[integra18]

b18c ITR hands down

[95civiccoupe]

had a ctr in one of ef's now that was hands down to a itr!!!

[Slammed 99 Si]

im not a big fan of h22 civics i remember when twisted image had his itr hatch it rolled and h22 civc by like 3 or 4 cars both had the same mods

[Dillon]

Never driven either, but judging from those specs I'd much prefer the motor with a larger displacement and longer stroke (ITR).

As for boost, they are both relatively high compression motors, but as it's been said I'd assume you can run low boost with a good tune no problem.

[cybergreencivic]

Ive pretty much decided this summer i will be doing an ITR swap once i sell my B17a1. I will hopefully be in the near future after that be throwing a JRSC on it with the FMIC kit that you can get for the JRSC from LHT. Link below.

http://www.lhtperformance.net/Superchargers/Parts/upgrades.html

You CAN actually throw boost at an 11.1 compression motor and not have it blow if you have it done right like Dillon said. Have a good tune on it and it should be smooth sailing.

[Bryson]

CTR+boost= BOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all four rods bye bye. When my buddy boosted his B16a it blew in a week not even getting on it more then 8 times..

ugh. I thought most honda guys would have learned by now.

But to the OP... Anyone willing to spend the $ on a B16B is looking more for flavor than substance ("JDM" over power).

[cybergreencivic]

CTR+boost= BOOMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all four rods bye bye. When my buddy boosted his B16a it blew in a week not even getting on it more then 8 times..

I hadnt noticed before that this said B16a, not B16b. I had my B16a2 turbo'd for 2 years and took it to the track all the time. I had it maxed out with the turbo kit i had at 290 to the wheels as well. But it also had a good tune on S200 from Tobi.

[mavvrik]

ugh. I thought most honda guys would have learned by now.

But to the OP... Anyone willing to spend the $ on a B16B is looking more for flavor than substance ("JDM" over power).

Haha, "JDM" over power, I love it, that's awesome. Well said!