The Worst shop ever!

[import_prophetz]

HRD / HorsePower Research and Development / Don Walker / Worse shop ever!!!

Here is the story. I was only going to list 10 things but its difficult to only list 10 when the car looks and runs like it was put together by the three blind men.

I dropped off my 240sx in his shop for a ca18det and a paint job. 1 years and 3 months later I get it back (he claims less). The Dash that I just installed (crackless) is now cracked, the motor runs like crap ( back fires, doesnt start half the time, running rich, doesnt boost for a long time, doesnt run right untill 20 minutes and after that its still runs like shiit), missing my gas cap, there are wires running everywhere (over my valve cover) wires have tons of kinks in them. The car Dies everytime I attempt to take it home. Dies on the way home. Left a bunch of parts that have tons of grease and oil on them all over my front seats and rear. I had a SR20det intercooler that didn't fit, and he didnt give back all the pipes and cut up some of them. I had to buy a different intercooler. My clutch pedal doesnt have any kick back and stays stuck on the floor. Its leaking oil. He let some idiot steal my $800 dvd player and drive off with it. Gauge cluster doesnt work and paid him for a dohc one which I will never recieve ( he had 1 year and 3 months to get it). Poor wiring job(electrical tape on some of the wires holding them together). My instumental lights doesnt work(not a fuse I check everysingle one). No heating because nothing is running to my heater core. He painted my car and has tons of dripping on the rear passenger side of the bumper and a 18 inch drip line on the driver side quarter panel. left two screw hole on my trunk that wasnt covered. Left holes on my sideskirts from rivets he removed (according to him you cant cover up rivets, I wonder if you can at least cover up the holes) I now have two holes where water seeps on on my trunk. my front bumper on my authentice version select kit is cracked in numerous places. the paint looks worse than maaco. The hood looks like it was painted and dust was blown all over it. The clear coat just looks like crap. The car was missing my spark plug cover so my valve cover looks retarded. Missing a bunch of misc parts in my engine bay. He said that I got a wonderfull deal for the paint job (I paid $1000 plus a 95 civic, with a new d15 motor with less than 50,000miles on it, and a 96 front covnersion, the car was worth more than 2,000 easy) And I was car less for over a year. I dropped in the car my junior year at college assuming I wasnt going to have time to work on it. Its been jst over a year and now I am out of college with a bach in acounting.

Here's the thing I dont mind it being in a shop for that long unless the motor was running right. But a shop should be better than that ( what would I know I only had 29 cars and still counting). The things he did to the car was just not professional. the people who work at his shop are really good people and are capable of much more than working at Dons pathetic shop. To tell you the truth this was the worse shop I had ever experience. I wished I would have gone to Mac, speedimage, Ghandi (too bad he works on mostly hondas) streetdreamz, hell I would have even went to 9 second racing. Thats how bad this was.

:guns:Don Walker

Thanks to the people who worked on my car, becuase I dont expect a blind pig to lead you through a maze.

Here are some Links to pictures, you will see the clutter engine bay, the wiring harness, paint drop dripping, how thin the paint is by looking at the headlights and discolor. sorry it took so long but here you go.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0696.jpg
Front bumper shipped, an poorly spaced
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0694.jpg
drip on mirror
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0692.jpg
drip on rear bumper, measurement
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0691.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0690.jpg
drip on rear driver quarter. measurement
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0689.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0688.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0685.jpg


HERE ARE SOME VIDEO LINKS TO MY ENGINE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTBxRtR26W0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQW6etFSTv8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_url4pfnUv0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnNCwm-W5qs

This is at full throttle. it just doesnt boost or anything. This is with a brand new Greddy Type-RS BOV. The real one.

[import_prophetz]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0681.jpg
Hole in trunk
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0680.jpg
dent
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0679.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0678.jpg
passenger skirt
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0675.jpg
driver side front
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0674.jpg
The "THICK PAINT" on headlights. Wierd how thick paint cant cover it
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0673.jpg
passenger front
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0672.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0671.jpg
holes in sideskirts, because according to DON rivets are impossible to cover up. Are holes impossible also???
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0670.jpg
gas door chipped

[M@]

Moved to appropriate forum. Sorry about your bad experience, hope everything works out for you.

[bluetalon]

WTF! I didn't have a good experience either, but it wasn't that bad...

That really sucks man.

[Conrad]

DAMN!!!

[Conrad]

any shop that needs to keep a car for over a year.... :thumbsdown.

[sirtef9]

shitty man, small claims court could be helpful maybe

[Kwando]

waiting to see the pictures... and most shops will work on almost every make of car. it might take them longer, but if they are a good shop they will do the work.

[import_prophetz]

I just cleaned it up, exterior, interior, but the car isnt boosting, Im sure there is a leak somewhere.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0669.jpg
Wirinf harness
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0668.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0667.jpg
My stolen DVD unit I bought for $800, and have reciepts to prove it.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0666.jpg
notice the hoses running over the valve cover, fan shroud. I just placed the hoses there to demonstarte how it
looked before I re-routed those hoses.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0665.jpg
again
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0664.jpg
Im sure this is not how anyone in their right mind would make a motor look.
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0707.jpg
my brand new dash, now cracked.

[ryanman]

Waiting on Don's side of the story...

[J.Dub]

Damn, sorry man! post them pics

[riceburner700]

damn, never going there. sounds like the little 5 yera old next door could do better with your car.

[chrisbarnett01]

I hope you didn't actually pay for any of this. It sounds like you gave them a project car and they gave you back a half ass painted project car that doesn't run.

[bluetalon]

Waiting on Don's side of the story...

Don is a total flake, no matter what his story is. I don't think he sets out to rip people off, he just doesn't have his shit together, at all.

[asianjkim]

Sorry to hear about that bro. I always find out the stores rep and info about it. Hopefully the next shop will do alot better or you yourself should maybe do the work. To prevent and actually do it right.

[redb20teg]

i've never understood why if a shop has a car longer than a few days you still allow that shop to perform the service. Shit if they kept my car for a year and a half thats like their car now. I think you should of gave them about a month for this project. but eh...live and learn. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

[Mark_H]

Post the pics man.
Also, Tobi WILL work on everything, not just Honda's/Acura's.

[HondaPower]

SMALL CLAIMS!!!

[ryanman]

WASTE OF TIME!!!

[Evil_SpeedRacer]

Where are the pics?

[john]

Sorry you had to find out the hard way. Don has hosed up a good number of motors, and always somehow gets to blame it on something/someone else.

CoRN and RMDSM have a good number of posts regarding the quality of his work.

[QuarterMile]

Damn man im sorry to hear this, I hope you take him to court and get back out of him what he took from you. Because im sick of all the little shops around fucking people over, they over charge on everything, for them to work on your car it's ass load of cash, and they don't honestly do anything that good.

I hate that shit, Im sorry man and hope you get them in court.

[sirtef9]

court or Street Justice :-)

[Kwando]

court or Street Justice :-)

:rofl: break all of this windows, light his place on fire and blame it on the squirrels.

[sirtef9]

:rofl: break all of this windows, light his place on fire and blame it on the squirrels.
lol or that:guns:

[cybergreencivic]

any shop that needs to keep a car for over a year.... :thumbsdown.

Add PFI to the list then. Kept my friends Prelude for over a year, and still never ran right.

[import_prophetz]

hahah, Well my camera is acting all goofy. But so far I cleaned the interior (didnt look soo bad) the dash is still cracked. I am going to attempt to take a picture before I start to redo all the wires. I am going to show you the wiring harness (its a joke) I am going to take a picture of the cluttered engine bay. And its bogging when boost hits if anyone knows what my problem is that would help. I am sure its a boost leak tho. Does anyone have a digi camera and want to check out my POS?

[sirtef9]

Add PFI to the list then. Kept my friends Prelude for over a year, and still never ran right.
They raped me when I did my first swap, Everything i bought from them was either a wrong part or used(when supposed to be new), all I have now is the ecu, everything else is where it belonged in the first place,(trash can)

[cybergreencivic]

They raped me when I did my first swap, Everything i bought from them was either a wrong part or used(when supposed to be new), all I have now is the ecu, everything else is where it belonged in the first place,(trash can)

Dont doubt it. They did my first swap as well. Did an auto to manual conversion, and they did not do the tranny mount bracket right. Broke it off, and didnt say anything. I eventually bought a new bracket from Honda and had my friend weld a new one on. He also rewired the whole swap since my reverse lights didnt work either, among other hacked things that were done and needed fixing.

[2genCRX]

TTIWWOP's

[Kwando]

don't you have a camera phone to take pictures with?

[chrisbarnett01]

But so far I cleaned the interior (didnt look soo bad) the dash is still cracked.



newsfucking flash: cleaning a car will not make cracks go away.

[hrcDSM719]

Sorry to hear about that man, it sux!! Some peoples shops....haha.

Small claims court could be a good thing, or it could be a waste of time. Unfortunately, until you actually get a case going, you will not know!

Wish you the best of luck in getting the situation rectified. Be easy!

[Kwando]

still no pictures... seems like all these claims are false...

[dsm king]

which car is yours? ive been working for him for a few months now part time and havent heard of any unhappy customers yet.

[fusionsport]

Well I am not going down the entire list but:

Andy you told me in front of MANY witnesses that you did NOT want us to do a "show" car paint job. We (as in several of my employees, not just me) told you repeatedly we needed to strip the entire car but you had us paint over the rattlecan job you had done. As it was, we (myself and several others) spent many hours getting the car to at least look halfway decent. Yes, I know the clear on the hood was sanded through (one of my guys mistake) and needs to be re-done, which I have told you to simply set up with chance and it WILL be taken care of, free, no charge. Im not sure about the dash being cracked or not cracked, but I do know the front bumper is EXACTLY how it arrived here with the exception of being painted. I tried and tried to get you to have us mount the bodykit properly, but you just wanted it pop-riveted on- which is fine, its your car, but please do not blame us for your decisions. The rear wing is on me though, because I specifically instructed the fellow prepping the car at the time to BOLT it on like it was meant to be and not just screw it on like you originally had it. The holes in the trunk however, were done by you when you originally mounted the Wangan. When/if you have the hood done I will have chnace re-mount it again using bolts, as it should be, and seal the screwholes in your decklid.

Now, as to the timeline, we got your car, dirty, greasy, rattlecanned flat black, and missing many parts last year, in Jan if IIRC, which is the exact date on the tow slip and invoice. We performed the swap as soon as the motorset arrived, but we had no intercooler, no exhuast, etc which you said you would provide, as you wanted to spend no money. The first intercooler kit you supplied was NOT complete for any car, we showed you that when you came down and explained to you that it would not fit. Yes, I did cut up one of your pipes by mistake(one of the guys cleaning the shop put it in the scrap box), but offered to take care of it if you wanted.
You eventually came up with an intercooler kit, and we put it on. Well, actually, you had us wait because you wanted to put the intercooler on yourself, but couldnt. My guys put the FMIC on and finished up many of the details. before finding that the downpipe wouldnt fit. On at least three occasions I had conversations with you regarding what you wanted to do about the exhaust, and on all three I was told the exhuast would fit, until you had someone else tell you that it wouldnt fit, at which point you came up with an SR dowpipe. We told you that wouldnt fit, but you didnt believe us until you actually came down to see for yourself. Only then did you have us go ahead and modify the DP to fit. I must also mention that there were several electrical pieces missing, and had to be found by us or you and then brought to us.
Im not sure how it works in other shops, but in mine you are scheduled in. If for some reason there is a problem, we move on to the next car until the problem is resolved. If the rpoblem is of our making- IE you had paid us for the DP and we screwed up and got the wrong one, then we get the parts ASAP and move you immediately back to the front of the line. If the problem is not of our making- IE your finding the part on your own, we do what we can to fit you in ASAP. WE COULD have had your car done months ago, but were not able to becuase key parts were not in our hands. No shop WANTS OR NEEDS a car hanging out in thier shop for any length of time and we absolutely wanted to get it done and done right, but we also have to draw the line somewhere. We have lost a LOT of money on this car in time, storage space, etc and we will lose more when the hood is fixed and anything else we legitimately owe taken care of, but that happens in this industry. Hell a guy you vouched for ripped me off for $700-plus while I was trying to help you out.

Also, lets not forget that Scott, Chance, and all of my guys have spent HOURS AND HOURS helping you with things that are not part of the motor swap- the alternator failing, the clutch slave cyl(original to your car) failing, etc would not have been covered by any other shop but WERE taken care of by us- although I do believe you had to pay Aaron for his alternator, which is only fair. Have you been charged a nickel over the agreed upon price for the swap itself despite all the hours of labor in getting the bits to work together? Have we not given you severe discounts on modifing your DP, installing your FMIC, etc? Did we not spend ALL DAY trying to sort out the leaking Greddy knock-off BOV had?

Andy your a good guy and despite this thread( and the personal jab from you) we will stand behind the paint and the swap- once again just set up a time with chance and get your hood repainted, and he will also buff it out again- Im sure it needs it. My guess is the poor running of the car is related to the coolant temp sender, and had instucted Scott to pull the codes to see. I wasnt here when you picked it up, but my guess is no ones pulled anything off the ECU at all. I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt have a boost leak or two related to the knock-off BOV or the crappy IC piping, but will be happy to do another boost leak check for you anytime you want.
Lastly, if you were unhappy Andy you should have called me and we would have made this right- posting this up BEFORE you had even called me to see what I would do for you is somehow just not cool.

[2genCRX]

and the truth comes out...

[sirtef9]

Pics would help this Lame thread out Immensely!

[ryanman]

typical...

[john]

*sigh*

Don - your work speaks for itself. 'Nuff said.

http://co3s.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=469

http://rmdsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5363

http://forums.coloradoracing.net/index.php?showtopic=100818&st=0

I don't know you personally.

However, I've been in the Colorado import/performance community for a couple of years. I gotta say - your reputation isn't all that great... Maybe best to let it lie down quietly?

There are a good number of shops in the greater Denver area who do very good work - evidently yours is not one of them.

$0.02 worth.

[fusionsport]

John- with all due respect- please explain to me how I am a "bad shop" for buying a brand new slave cyl AND replacing it so the guy could drive his car home? Or how we are a "bad shop" when we have offered (repeatedly and publicly) to take care of ANY issue he has with the car. Please explain how it is "on us" that the coolant temp sender is likely bad, and there are leaks from the knock off Greddy BOV he bought? he paid us to do a swap, not to tune the car- in fact in his own words, all he wanted was the car to start, because he was going to park it for a year then modifiy it further. We advised him several times that the timing belt, various sensors, seals, etc SHOULD be replaced while the swap was being done, but he took the risk that everything is OK with the swap. Please, I am very interested to hear, how is this "on us"? How EXACTLY does that make us a bad shop? What more would YOU have done John? What more can we do now? Beyond standing behind our work, what more is there?
Fact is, we have never and will never rip anyone off- for example:I had an ex-employee damage a cusomers unpainted FG hood- we not only repaired it better than new I painted and colourmatched it free of charge. Since you like threads so much- http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=402140 you can find my input on page 3- I am 3rtech there.

[thebluesky]

*sigh*

Don - your work speaks for itself. 'Nuff said.

http://co3s.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=469

http://rmdsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5363

http://forums.coloradoracing.net/index.php?showtopic=100818&st=0

I don't know you personally.

However, I've been in the Colorado import/performance community for a couple of years. I gotta say - your reputation isn't all that great... Maybe best to let it lie down quietly?

There are a good number of shops in the greater Denver area who do very good work - evidently yours is not one of them.

$0.02 worth.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring up these classic moments from history.

[thebluesky]

Import_prophetz, how did your car get home? Was it drivable or did you have it towed??? Also, just so we're all clear, what was the total cost of this job?

I'm going to put in my .02 here, as a few things aren't quite adding up. Let's start by addressing a few issues you didn't respond to. I'm reading a claim of the clutch pedal going to the floor and not coming back up, which to me sounds like a serious issue. What is the explanation for this? This one alone has me scratching my head?

Next off, why would you bypass the heater core completely? I see no reason this should have been done short of something drastically missing?

Wiring done with nothing but electrical tape. TO me, this sounds like a drastically incomplete wiring job good for nothing more than test-wiring. Last time I checked, solder and heat-shrink tube were industry standards by professional shops. Even crimp-style connectors would be better than just electrical tape.

Paint runs. If I'm reading this right, he actually paid $1000 plus a 95 civic with a front-end conversion and a swapped engine for just this? This sounds like at least $3500, which is worth much more than a standard Maco paint job. A decent paint job starts at around $2500 dollars. The last time I heard of a paint job even sounding anywhere near like this had cost someone $900 from Maco, and that person only did it that way because he really didn't care. Missing parts.

Last minute add-on Damaged parts. You admit to chopping his intercooler pipe inadvertently. That being the case, why didn't you replace it rather than re-using it? As to the dash, I have no questions about it until I see pics of it to better gauge what could have caused that damage.

I'm not surprised by this having read of these problems numerous times. I starting to wonder why I hear this complaint time and time again. Come on now, the gas cap missing? I'm not completely doubting that there were some issues on the part of Import_prophetz not being fully prepared, but the majority of what he is complaining sounds like the posts provided by john as well as others not illustrated here.

I personally don't fully see why this process took longer than 5 months, or why this job wasn't cancelled if there were as many problems going on as you claim there were after hearing what has been posted of both sides of the story so far. However, we only have two sides of the story, your's and his. What we need are the pictures of everything so we can fully judge for ourselves.

[M@]

http://forums.coloradoracing.net/index.php?showtopic=100818&st=0

And he never once replied in that thread. That speaks for itself, IMO.

I've had great experiences with Don on a man-to-man level and him hiring me to design his shop logo goes, but never done business with him as far as getting work goes.

This is a big fucking mess, I hope people get things worked out, regardless. Most people work hard for their money and deserve what they pay for, so, I hope everyone gets things taken care of.

[fusionsport]

Import_prophetz, how did your car get home? Was it drivable or did you have it towed??? Also, just so we're all clear, what was the total cost of this job?

He drove it home. He actually picked the car up while I was out of town, and from what my employee tells me he worked with Andy until 3AM because of a defective battery problem. Before I left Andy had attempted to pick up the car, but it had a bad alternator. Even that night I told him NOT to pick up the car until we could get it running better, but he chose to take the car anyway. DO NOT get the idea that anyone from my shop called him and told him to come get the car. We needed to diagnos the issues the car was having- whether they still be boost leaks, bad sensors, etc and at least have a reason why the car doesnt run as it should. IMHO the car should not have left, but I was 3000 miles away when this happened. The first time Andy attempted to pick it up we strngly advised against it because we had no fan shroud and he said he would drive it home anyway. I told him it would overheat, and it did before it went three blocks to the gas station.

I'm going to put in my .02 here, as a few things aren't quite adding up. Let's start by addressing a few issues you didn't respond to. I'm reading a claim of the clutch pedal going to the floor and not coming back up, which to me sounds like a serious issue. What is the explanation for this? This one alone has me scratching my head?

On the same occasion mentioned above literally an hour before Andy came to pick up the car the clutch slave cyl failed completely. We bought a new one and installed it. To my knowledge the clutch was working fine after that. In any case, it has nothing to do with the swap we performed, as it is his original clutch slave cyl. I simply had it replaced so the guy could drive his car home. If there are any other issues with the clutch system they are beyond the scope of what we were paid to do and we really have no reason to see this as a "warranty" issue.

Next off, why would you bypass the heater core completely? I see no reason this should have been done short of something drastically missing?

I could be wrong about this, because honestly I am not sure where Scott left off on it, but I believe the heater hoses were not reconnected because they require a molded hose Andy did not wish to buy. Once again thats his choice, not mine. I know $20-ish in hoses doesnt sound like much, but he literally would not spend the money, and there is a limit to how much I will do for free.

Wiring done with nothing but electrical tape. TO me, this sounds like a drastically incomplete wiring job good for nothing more than test-wiring. Last time I checked, solder and heat-shrink tube were industry standards by professional shops. Even crimp-style connectors would be better than just electrical tape.

No, the industry standard is high-quality crimps and crimping tool, along with heatshrink, which we have and used- solder is for car stereos. However, when Scott was first here he did some soldering/electrical tape BS he learned elsewhere and there is a chance he did some of that to the 240 while trying to diagnos the running issue. If that truly is the case he will re-do it correctly as he has now been properly trained. If he was testing something and forgot to double-check it and make it permenant that is a worse and if that is the case we will have a conversation Monday morning, and he will correct it. I know for a fact that ALL connections we did on the harness initially were properly crimped and heat-shrinked, because I watched Josh do it and checked it after.

Paint runs. If I'm reading this right, he actually paid $1000 plus a 95 civic with a front-end conversion and a swapped engine for just this? This sounds like at least $3500, which is worth much more than a standard Maco paint job. A decent paint job starts at around $2500 dollars. The last time I heard of a paint job even sounding anywhere near like this had cost someone $900 from Maco, and that person only did it that way because he really didn't care. Missing parts.
IIRC (and I do) Andy paid me $600 and traded me the Honda, which needed a lot of work. The paint was messed up, the front end conversion was not done very well, the hood was bent, the wrong bolts had been used on the flexplate cauing us to replace it, the wiring was absolutely the worst I have ever seen, the VTEC control wires were literally twisted together with electrical tape(barely)covering them and I actually dont think it was wired properly, the coolant temp sender wires were broken, the dash was fucked from the kid he sold the car to and had to repo it from, the interior was beat and took a lot of work to get nice again, and so on and so forth- I agreed the car was worth $1500-ish at that time, but only did the trade to help Andy out, I had less than zero interest in the car.
For that $2100-ish he got:
MANY dents repaired, the entire car scuffed and sanded- a LOT of time ahd to go into the roof, because it was really badly dented. The entire car was rattlecanned flat black and it should have been completely stripped to metal, but Andy specifically said thats not what he wanted or would pay for.
The entire car was primed in PPG K36 primer to seal the rattlecan layer.
4 coats of PPG basecoat applied
4 coats of PPG clear applied
Entire car wetsanded and buffed
Yes, Maaco might be able to price-match that, but I think when you add the bodywork, prep-time, etc in they will actually be more expensive and use lesser quality materials- but I could be wrong.
Known issues in the paint are:
Run on the drivers door, run on the Pass fender- both in the clear and both were to have been fixed while the car was being wetsanded and buffed
clearcoat on the hood was wetsanded through- definitely all mistakes, and definitely ones that will be corrected- Andy has been repeatedly told to simply contact Chance and set up a time to have it done. No one here is saying that we didnt make a mistake, and no one here is saying it wont be fixed.

Last minute add-on Damaged parts. You admit to chopping his intercooler pipe inadvertently. That being the case, why didn't you replace it rather than re-using it? As to the dash, I have no questions about it until I see pics of it to better gauge what could have caused that damage.
We did NOT re-use his pipe! He had an incomplete SR FMIC kit initially. He supplied a SSAC FMIC kit for the CA which does sorta fit. The pipe in question was from the SR kit and somehow managed to get in the scrap box. I cut it up not realizing what it was, and we didnt know until we were looking for other pipes that might be missing. I told him I would replace it for him, beyond that Im not sure what could be done.
A dash cracking has nothing to do with anything we did or did not do- the car was stored inside, so Im not sure how we are responsible for the dash cracking.

I'm not surprised by this having read of these problems numerous times. I starting to wonder why I hear this complaint time and time again. Come on now, the gas cap missing? I'm not completely doubting that there were some issues on the part of Import_prophetz not being fully prepared, but the majority of what he is complaining sounds like the posts provided by john as well as others not illustrated here.

I personally don't fully see why this process took longer than 5 months, or why this job wasn't cancelled if there were as many problems going on as you claim there were after hearing what has been posted of both sides of the story so far. However, we only have two sides of the story, your's and his. What we need are the pictures of everything so we can fully judge for ourselves.

Of course you dont see why the process took the time it did! I DONT SEE why the process took as long as it did, since the swap itself was done in less than a week, including having to wait on a new clutch to arrive! The paintwork was done in the early summer! I do agree with you that I probably should have canceled the job once it was apparent that A)Andy wanted to spend absolutely zero money on the car and B> we were continuosly waiting for him to provide parts that we could have easily provided and put on the car. Try and understand that while I dont hold that against anyone, and I understand you thinking you are saving money by buying parts from elsewhere, I am not responsible for ANY delays incurred by this. Many shops will not allow customer-provided parts for this very reason! I can only say that we- all of us here- were trying to help Andy out as much as we could and try and meet his goals and budget.
Hey heres one for you:
We provided an Odyssey PC680 battery because the FMIC piping he brought us required it. Now, this battery is less than 2 months old, but its already dead, most likely due to the alternator in the car being bad, and I doubt my vendor will warranty it. When Andy came to get the car while I was out of town, the battery finally gave up and my employee Scott stayed until 3AM rigging a battery to work! Why? Why not just come back when we have had the battery warrantied out and the correct battery put in its place? Because the customer wanted his car right then and its HIS choice to take the car. What should have happened is the car put back in the shop,everyone gone home at a reasonable hour, then a new battery installed, and the ECU codes read to determine WTF is causing the running issue. Again, do not get the idea we called Andy up and said- hey come get your car its perfect and we want it gone. I would have to check with Scott but I am pretty positive he would have said to wait until the car was sorted or at least until I got back. If he didnt, well thats a conversation for me and him to have.

[Conrad]

/me grabs popcorn

Good thread rofl

[STIBungy]

Jesus man! You and your freakin' pic requests!

still no pictures... seems like all these claims are false...

[ryanman]

Don's arguement sounds legit to me. Sounds like a typical customer who doesn't have any money but wants everything for free and bitches about everything not being perfect. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE FUCKIN MONEY, WORK ON IT YOURSELF, SHOPS AREN'T GONA DO IT FOR FREE, fuckin morons. I hate customers like this, they piss me off, especially when they make threads like this. Some people need to find a new hobby or start working on there own shit.

[Nick_S]

If I owned a shop and a customer told me to just do a cheap job on it. I wouldn't. I would only do quality work out of my shop. I think you should have never done the job in the first place unless you were gonna do it the right way. What kind of shop does shittier work for less money.

[ryanman]

Of course. That's the only way stuff should be done BUT when I have a customer come in who doesn't have much money I ask them what their priority is, what do they want done first or in most of my cases, I'll tell them what is most important and what needs to be done first. I guess it's a little different with what I do vs. what Don is doing but the overall picture is still the same, automotive repair. If they don't have the money to complete the entire project then the entire project won't be completed, pretty easy to understand.

[thebluesky]

And he never once replied in that thread. That speaks for itself, IMO.

I've had great experiences with Don on a man-to-man level and him hiring me to design his shop logo goes, but never done business with him as far as getting work goes.

This is a big fucking mess, I hope people get things worked out, regardless. Most people work hard for their money and deserve what they pay for, so, I hope everyone gets things taken care of.

I'm not sure if everyone realizes it, but at the time that thread was written, he was banned from that site, and thus unable to respond directly.

[fusionsport]

Of course. That's the only way stuff should be done BUT when I have a customer come in who doesn't have much money I ask them what their priority is, what do they want done first or in most of my cases, I'll tell them what is most important and what needs to be done first. I guess it's a little different with what I do vs. what Don is doing but the overall picture is still the same, automotive repair. If they don't have the money to complete the entire project then the entire project won't be completed, pretty easy to understand.

Pretty much nail-on-head.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Looks like were about done here.

[Conrad]

damnit i thought we were going to crusify someone!

[Terry]

In before the lock

[ryanman]

Thank you, drive through.

[M@]

IBFTL!

[jackmode9316]

And some more truth

[import_prophetz]

the slave was damaged because somebody but some own known liquid in it. Please explain the drop marks or was that my fault. And with the stuff you "waited on" I gave them to you within 1 week. Remember that you wanted to charge me over $400 to fabricate intercooler piping when you took my SR intercooler piping and cut it, plus you are missing some. And from my past experince when you do a complete swap you get the car back running. Im sorry you had to replace the alternater. Anybody from HAI can come by and check out my car. When it doesnt boost half the time. I am in the process of cleaning up the motor and found a vacum hose discconected. And when somebody walks out with a DVD player I bought for $800 I would hope you would at least say sorry instead of blaming the idiot that walked out with it. I spent tons of money on a car that runs like shit. I dont want to spend money at your shop. You had my car for so long because you refused to work on it, not because of the lack of parts. I remember seeing my car sitting there for over 3 months untouched because "it was out of the rotation" according to the logical rotation First comes First serve. Please do no insult me when I am the one stuck on the side of the highway relizing I paid for a car that can lose to a Geo Metro running on only 2 cylinder. If you used so many layers of paint why did Chance himself (your employee) sanded so much of the clear coat off so fast? My goal was to have a motor swaped in running correctly, my results is a car that runs bad, and worse looks bad. You blame the front fenders paint on rattle can paint job, when I recieved the fenders like that from B-Magic. I beleive they call in mold release which you the "EXPERT" should know. If you wanted to make it right I would have recieved my car a long time ago. Right now I am just going to repair the damage you made. If you believe I wasnt willing to spend money on my car you are wrong, I didnt want to spend it on your shop!

[import_prophetz]

Sorry on the pictures guys, I do have a camera phone but dont have picture messaging. My camera is messed up and I already started cleaning up the motor and re routed some wires, and installed a civic battery. Go to Don's shop yourself and come back in a year and you will see at least 5 of the same car. But I do need help because my car is still bogging when boost hits, I am sure its a boost leak, and maybe a exhaust leak. I have never talked bad about any shop, but I rather speak the truth before I get any type of discount. So instead of consulting with Don, I rather let everyone know what to expect of him. I believe that everybody who works for Don so far is a great person, and has helped me and worked on my car. But If I owned a shop nothing comming out of it would be laughed at. Don does come off as a nice guy, but talked to his previous employees, or the people from the DSM forums. When it comes to character HRD is the place to go, when it comes to service I will take my business elsewhere.

[import_prophetz]

Don's arguement sounds legit to me. Sounds like a typical customer who doesn't have any money but wants everything for free and bitches about everything not being perfect. IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE FUCKIN MONEY, WORK ON IT YOURSELF, SHOPS AREN'T GONA DO IT FOR FREE, fuckin morons. I hate customers like this, they piss me off, especially when they make threads like this. Some people need to find a new hobby or start working on there own shit.

I had 29 cars so far and all paid in cash besides one. I have no money problems. Currently I have a 98 Audi A6, and this 240sx. I work over 60 hours a weeks plus go to school full time. I dont have time to work on my car. I was looking for a good deal when I went to Don, giving I was going to recieve the same final product as I was going to get from anywhere else. (ryanman) no direspect but if you would like to go to my bank with me you will see that money is never a issue. I wasnt satisfy with the work I was recieveing why would I invest anymore money into the same shop. Go to StreetDreams look how clean he sets up his motor, I wished I would have dropped it off there (but wyoming was too far to tow). But my hobby is cars and thats you hobby to I assume. That is why this thread is up, to warn you about a shop that did me wrong. I have already started my new setup with this exact car doing a complete s15 front (s15 headlights $500, Kouki Tails $350, Fenders $250) and Now I need to buy radiator support, front bumper, hood. And I plan on dropping it into Streetdreams to repair the work done to it. The new paint job is going to cost me $2500.

[import_prophetz]

Import_prophetz, how did your car get home? Was it drivable or did you have it towed??? Also, just so we're all clear, what was the total cost of this job?

I'm going to put in my .02 here, as a few things aren't quite adding up. Let's start by addressing a few issues you didn't respond to. I'm reading a claim of the clutch pedal going to the floor and not coming back up, which to me sounds like a serious issue. What is the explanation for this? This one alone has me scratching my head?

Next off, why would you bypass the heater core completely? I see no reason this should have been done short of something drastically missing?

Wiring done with nothing but electrical tape. TO me, this sounds like a drastically incomplete wiring job good for nothing more than test-wiring. Last time I checked, solder and heat-shrink tube were industry standards by professional shops. Even crimp-style connectors would be better than just electrical tape.

Paint runs. If I'm reading this right, he actually paid $1000 plus a 95 civic with a front-end conversion and a swapped engine for just this? This sounds like at least $3500, which is worth much more than a standard Maco paint job. A decent paint job starts at around $2500 dollars. The last time I heard of a paint job even sounding anywhere near like this had cost someone $900 from Maco, and that person only did it that way because he really didn't care. Missing parts.

Last minute add-on Damaged parts. You admit to chopping his intercooler pipe inadvertently. That being the case, why didn't you replace it rather than re-using it? As to the dash, I have no questions about it until I see pics of it to better gauge what could have caused that damage.

I'm not surprised by this having read of these problems numerous times. I starting to wonder why I hear this complaint time and time again. Come on now, the gas cap missing? I'm not completely doubting that there were some issues on the part of Import_prophetz not being fully prepared, but the majority of what he is complaining sounds like the posts provided by john as well as others not illustrated here.

I personally don't fully see why this process took longer than 5 months, or why this job wasn't cancelled if there were as many problems going on as you claim there were after hearing what has been posted of both sides of the story so far. However, we only have two sides of the story, your's and his. What we need are the pictures of everything so we can fully judge for ourselves.

I got the car home by driving it 30-40mph on the highway. It wouldnt go faster it keeped bogging. The car died 2 minutes on the highway. On of Don's employee (scott) drive there and helped me in the middle of the night. Thanks Scott you did go out of your way to please a customer. The knockoff greddy BOV wasnt leaking but the vaccum hose was torn and the bov was fuctioning properly. Honestly I am just glad to get the car back so I can fix it. And no matter what shop you go to, somebody has said something bad about it. But this is my bad experience, and all I wanted to do was to share. But im glad you are at least listening to two sides of the story. If somebody would like to go to my house and take pictures I wouldnt mind on any sunday. I am not trying to hide anything. The reason why I didnt talk to Don was because I just dont care about getting it fixed through him, All I want is for my story to be told. I did pay him, I didnt just Run because he did do most of the work. here is what happen the first time I went to go get it. I called Don and made sure it was actually ready. Both me and Don was under the assumption that it was (not Don's fault) So I called in a few employees to run my dads Liquor store and went to dons shop. Stayed there for 8 hours because none of the intercooler pipes was connected, the down pipe wasnt fabricated. and there was no clutch pressure, I went home. The second time I took another day off (note I work 60 hours a week and go to school full time) it dint start I stayed there for another 6 hours and Don found a bunch of boost leaks and the clutch still had no pressure, plus the alternator was cracked (note I bought the engine from Don) so then the third time I went to go get it it ran, just like crap. Scott ended up helping me more than he should have. I thank him for that. Got it home going 30mph, and found out the battery had a leak. Battery acid = no fun. ANY ONE WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK PM ME!!!!!

[fusionsport]

Thats almost correect- the first time you came to pick the car up the clutch was fine, and the car ran OK but a bit rough. We replaced the spark plugs (with Iridiums, which you didnt pay for), did a boost leak test, checked your MAF, etc and the car seemed to run OK>>>> note- I say seemed to run OK becuase my employee Scott did the test driving and much of the diagnostic, and his report to me that day, was that it was running OK but had a bit of stumble off-idle.<<<< you and Chance drove it to the gas station to get gas, and it overheated, as I told you it would with no fan shroud. You almost drove it home anyway, against our advice. I had one of my guys find youa fan shroud.

The second time you came to get the car, literally an hour before you showed up, as I was pulling the car around, the slave failed. I called you to advise you of this before you left your work but you insisted I try and find a slave cyl. We busted ass to get the slave (got lucky one was in stock) and installed it for you then and there. Im prety sure the guys used the correct fluid, but if your seeing signs of contamination I would suggest checking the master cyl as the seals are likely degrading. I really wasnt happy with the way it was running, so I had my guys spend more time trying to diagnos the issue. I told you to leave the car here, but you insisted it would be fine. The only thing that prevented you from driving it home right then was the alternator failed and the battery went completely dead.

The last time you came by, I was out of town, I know no one called you to tell you the car was ready, so Im not sure why it was picked up. Regardless, Aaron swapped out the alternator, and as I understand it Scott helped you a lot (until 3AM) including going and buying a new battery in the middle of the night. That should not have happened- the car should have not left the shop until we had finished the diagnosis, the ECU codes had been pulled, the battery charging issue resolved, etc. The battery in the car shouldnt be there, becuase it SHOULD have been returned to the shop where we could have gotten it replaced by the vendor. The car should not be running like crap, and it seems to actually be getting worse not better. My report from Scott was that it ran OK after it warmed up, which to me indicates that a coolant temp sender etc is bad or is going bad.
In any case- the car should not have left the shop until it was right, you choosing to take it does not constitute a failure on our part. Now, if for some reason you were told it was running OK and it wasnt, then thats something I need to know about because that should not have happened, but what I get from the people that were here is that you knew the car wasnt running properly and decided to take it home anyway. I can believe that after you wanting to take the without a fan shroud, etc in the past.

Andy as far as your comment to ryanman re your finances, you might have the money but you certianly are not spending it properly- rather than the S15 conversion parts you should have spent that money on a new timing belt, the few seals in the front of the motor, new fuel filter, having the injectors cleaned etc. along with parts that actually fit the car rather than the cheapest EBay crap you can find. I know you think it saved you money, but it really didnt and if we had charged you for all the little stuff then you would clearly see that- like the hour spent making the POS MAF filter adaptor you bought fit- IF we had charged you as we should have you would have ended up paying more for it than you would have just buying a reputable brand that actually fit. Everyone here at the shop really tried to help you out because you literally told us you had no money! Hours and hours of work by Chance, Scott, Aaron, Josh and Joe were NOT charged to you because you said you couldnt afford it, but the car needed to get done anyway. I am absolutely certian that after reading this thread those feelings have changed.

[twistedimage]

blah! lots to both sides. will keep tuned in.

[Conrad]

damnit... there is too much to read now....

[Pang]

Looks like ALOT of miscommunications between the car owner and shop and employees.

[FrankDMS]

wow what a mess! This looks like a cheap customer and fast work to me..... *the car was there for a year and now he is posting this!? Somthing does not add up here! I have known Don for some time now and yes he makes mistakes...but in this case he has kept the car for so long that in its self shows me he was working with a broke customer. If this was dons fault compleatly this would have been an issue many months ago, but no. Don is a get it out fast' get it on the road....type and given the nature of the complaint and the timeline shows he was trying to help importprofits. That goes as far as intent on the part of don- i have sill not seen pics of the damage to the car so... What i recomend is having a "Drivibility" shop look at the car and see what is going on with the running issues. !****until then he has no real grounds for speculation in dons work!***** Importprofit would you like to find out what problems your car has? Pm me your # and i will help. I am not taking sides but damn if anybody is going to hang don without proof of shotty work.

[jackmode9316]

IMO reputation is everything, when choosing a shop.

[Conrad]

IMO reputation is everything, when choosing a shop.

And opinions are like assholes.... everyone has one!

[jackmode9316]

Well everyone has their own shitty opinion to blame when they get themselves in a tough situation.


Maybe its just me, but I would think it would be the Smart move to take your car to someone who has a good reputation. Im sure im not the only one who doesnt want to risk sub-par work on their car. Not saying home boys work is sub-par, but he has had complaints before. Where as someone like....Tobi...has a damn near flawless reputation. Fact is, if you cut corners on price, your just cutting corners on quality.
Personally I prefer to work on my cars myself. That way if I mess it up, I have no one else to blame.

[Conrad]

I guess I have been around a bit longer... because I have heard several complaints about TCs also. Not to say I have had anything but good experience. I just think that most places are going to have people who are just going to be unhappy, the shop should fix the problem to the best of their ability and move on. In the end if that is their goal, people will see that.

[dsm king]

Well everyone has their own shitty opinion to blame when they get themselves in a tough situation.


Maybe its just me, but I would think it would be the Smart move to take your car to someone who has a good reputation. Im sure im not the only one who doesnt want to risk sub-par work on their car. Not saying home boys work is sub-par, but he has had complaints before. Where as someone like....Tobi...has a damn near flawless reputation. Fact is, if you cut corners on price, your just cutting corners on quality.
Personally I prefer to work on my cars myself. That way if I mess it up, I have no one else to blame.

and thats exactly what happened here...customer cut corner on the amount of money he wanted to pay so there for Don had no choice but to just give the guy what HE ASKED FOR and hes not gunna work for free, much morethan he allready did on this car! I dont understand why Don is catching all this shit for doing his job. He gave the guy what he asked for, and he knew damn well he shouldnt attempted to drive it home. if Scott or the other guys said it may have been running OK that in no means translates into its ready to take home. As far as the time line the car was there, if you didnt like it you could have easily came and picked it up a long time ago. you knew it was there, you knew you had parts that didnt fit well, you knew you needed that rad shroud, and you knew you werent getting a HOUSE of Color paint job because thats what you asked/paid for. If hes such a bad guy then why are they up to their eye balls in motor swaps/builds, and lots of other happy returning customers projects?

[jackmode9316]

This situation is very complicated, so just like all opinions, mine doesn't mean shit. Its sucks to be unhappy with work done, but it also sucks to be slammed by a customer when you dont deserve it. Hopefully everything gets worked out.

I I just think that most places are going to have people who are just going to be unhappy, the shop should fix the problem to the best of their ability and move on. In the end if that is their goal, people will see that.

Couldnt agree more.

[bluetalon]

When I went to HRD, Don did a lot to hook me up, but he just flaked on me so many times I can't go back. He called me every 2 days to give me updates, then he'd find out he was wrong in the first place, and call to tell the new update. Kind of funny, no big deal I guess. He did hook me up with a cheap 2g manifold, and gave me diagnosis on stuff that needed to be done. He had a great opportunity to rip me off on some seals but he found the problem and gave me a fair price. It took a few weeks, but I was told it would in the beginning. He had other projects going on. The part I don't like is he would keep telling me to come pick up the car, or that it's done, when it was not done. He'd be working on it, be almost done and call me. Then I get down there and he's still working on it. One day I had to wait all day, even left for lunch and came back to wait forever. "just like 20 more minutes, " he'd say. This happened several times during a turbo upgrade and once during a repair. One time I even paid my invoice, and left the car there. I also stated that I wanted to leave it there until it got tuned, as I will have a hard time getting it back there for another appt. He scheduled me for a dyno session and cancelled it later. On the next appointment for tuning (car was at his shop the whole time) it's idling high. Big fuckin' deal let it warm up right? NO, he freaks out and tries for over an hour to figure it out. I know his intentions were good but I thought he was a DSM guy.... That meant we missed the dyno again. He later determines it just needed to warm up. He also tried to tell me the idle control valve would cost over $250. I found it for like $80 on the internet. Checker also sells one for much less than the dealer. That's another day of hanging out watching him tinker with my car, for nothing. The last time I went by, I expected to just pick up the car--go in, pay, and leave. I told him this on the phone before I left. When I get there, he's working on it again. I go in and tell him, "my wife is waiting, I can't hang out today. She's pregnant and wants to follow me home. I thought you said you were done?"
"Just 20 more minutes, " he says. Over an hour later, maybe 2, he tells me it's ready for me to test drive it, and the reason he told me to come down is that it hadn't been test driven yet and it had problems when they took it out. Now, I totally remember him calling me more then 3 times to tell me how done it was. Why the fuck do you call the customer before you test drive it? That really pissed me off, like I have time to go down there twice a week and hang out all day. It's like he doesn't even want to work on it unless you are there, or on the way down. My estimate went up about $1,000 although my car was a pain in the ass, I admit. I had parts that were not the easiest to install, according to him. 20g turbo, shitty intercooler. He did some good as well as bad I just don't want to go back and see how many thousand appointments I will need for tuning. Plus I just can't take my car to somone like that. His shop is a touch "ghetto" as well. He's a good guy, but fuck--cmon man.

[thebluesky]

wow what a mess! This looks like a cheap customer and fast work to me..... *the car was there for a year and now he is posting this!? Somthing does not add up here! I have known Don for some time now and yes he makes mistakes...but in this case he has kept the car for so long that in its self shows me he was working with a broke customer. If this was dons fault compleatly this would have been an issue many months ago, but no. Don is a get it out fast' get it on the road....type and given the nature of the complaint and the timeline shows he was trying to help importprofits. That goes as far as intent on the part of don- i have sill not seen pics of the damage to the car so... What i recomend is having a "Drivibility" shop look at the car and see what is going on with the running issues. !****until then he has no real grounds for speculation in dons work!***** Importprofit would you like to find out what problems your car has? Pm me your # and i will help. I am not taking sides but damn if anybody is going to hang don without proof of shotty work.

If you do get up there, please get some pics of everything.

[thebluesky]

I got the car home by driving it 30-40mph on the highway. It wouldnt go faster it keeped bogging. The car died 2 minutes on the highway. On of Don's employee (scott) drive there and helped me in the middle of the night. Thanks Scott you did go out of your way to please a customer. The knockoff greddy BOV wasnt leaking but the vaccum hose was torn and the bov was fuctioning properly. Honestly I am just glad to get the car back so I can fix it. And no matter what shop you go to, somebody has said something bad about it. But this is my bad experience, and all I wanted to do was to share. But im glad you are at least listening to two sides of the story. If somebody would like to go to my house and take pictures I wouldnt mind on any sunday. I am not trying to hide anything. The reason why I didnt talk to Don was because I just dont care about getting it fixed through him, All I want is for my story to be told. I did pay him, I didnt just Run because he did do most of the work. here is what happen the first time I went to go get it. I called Don and made sure it was actually ready. Both me and Don was under the assumption that it was (not Don's fault) So I called in a few employees to run my dads Liquor store and went to dons shop. Stayed there for 8 hours because none of the intercooler pipes was connected, the down pipe wasnt fabricated. and there was no clutch pressure, I went home. The second time I took another day off (note I work 60 hours a week and go to school full time) it dint start I stayed there for another 6 hours and Don found a bunch of boost leaks and the clutch still had no pressure, plus the alternator was cracked (note I bought the engine from Don) so then the third time I went to go get it it ran, just like crap. Scott ended up helping me more than he should have. I thank him for that. Got it home going 30mph, and found out the battery had a leak. Battery acid = no fun. ANY ONE WILLING TO TAKE A LOOK PM ME!!!!!

Are you in Wyoming now or are you in Westminister?

[fusionsport]

Actually Tony is right about a lot of that, and that was totally my fault. I made a mistake in which employee I had working on the car for the last few details, and I also had a mis-communication with that employee regarding what was left to be done on the car, and how they should do it. Once again, really my fault, no one elses. The actual issue with the high idle was the TB gasket had been re-used when it was supposed to be replaced with a new one, causing a vac leak. For whatever reason I had an issue getting that across, and I would be told the car was ready when it wasnt, then call Tony to pick up the car. My mistake again, because as soon as I would go to bring the car around front I would find that it STILL had a vac leak and have to spend time chasing it down, only to find that it was still the TB gasket! Totally my fault, and one we have solved to some degree. The only thing I can really say is that pretty much every single customer issue we have is a learning experience- In Tonys case I found that what I think is done and what an employee thinks is done might not be the same thing, so we now spend more time going over each project and the expectation of the customer in detail, and whatever employee is assigned to the job is constantly asked for the exact status of the job and thier understanding of what is left to be done. Sounds simple I know, but it has helped a lot around here keeping the miscommunications and mistakes down. We still have our issues, but honestly I feel like I have a great staff developing who truly want to do the best job they can for the customer no matter what the job is.

[thebluesky]

To both Andy and Don, it really sounds like a nuetral third party needs to look at this car and give us their assessment. Andy, if I were you, I wouldn't try to fix anything else until someone at least looks at it.

Don, looking at it from his perspective just based on what he has written, I too probably would have taken the car out of there, although I probably would have towed it. The job took a year to almost(??) get done, and it still had issues.

[FrankDMS]

^pm'd *good advice

[FrankDMS]

it takes a man to admit publicly when he is wrong. kudos.

[bluetalon]

Actually Tony is right about a lot of that, and that was totally my fault. I made a mistake in which employee I had working on the car for the last few details, and I also had a mis-communication with that employee regarding what was left to be done on the car, and how they should do it. Once again, really my fault, no one elses. The actual issue with the high idle was the TB gasket had been re-used when it was supposed to be replaced with a new one, causing a vac leak. For whatever reason I had an issue getting that across, and I would be told the car was ready when it wasnt, then call Tony to pick up the car. My mistake again, because as soon as I would go to bring the car around front I would find that it STILL had a vac leak and have to spend time chasing it down, only to find that it was still the TB gasket! Totally my fault, and one we have solved to some degree. The only thing I can really say is that pretty much every single customer issue we have is a learning experience- In Tonys case I found that what I think is done and what an employee thinks is done might not be the same thing, so we now spend more time going over each project and the expectation of the customer in detail, and whatever employee is assigned to the job is constantly asked for the exact status of the job and thier understanding of what is left to be done. Sounds simple I know, but it has helped a lot around here keeping the miscommunications and mistakes down. We still have our issues, but honestly I feel like I have a great staff developing who truly want to do the best job they can for the customer no matter what the job is.

I brought the car to YOU, thinking YOU would work on it, not some fucktard you hired off the street. I can do backyard wrenching too. Your "employee" cost you a lot of business. I gave up on the car, and am trying to sell it.

Having said that, Don is a cool guy and he hooks up the customer whenever possible. It's like you win some/you lose some with Don, but you always lose some. I didn't come back after the test drive because I didn't want it to show that I was pissed and I can be a dick sometimes.

[fusionsport]

I dont just "hire some fucktard off the street", although I will be the first to admit I have had employee troubles in the past. I did all of the major work on your car myself, but an employee who cannot handle simple stuff like changing injectors, putting together(correctly and with no leaks) a turbosystem, intercooler setup and similar work is no use to me and will soon find thier way out the door. The guys I have now are pretty good, but I always feel there is room for improvement. Feel free to ask any of them what working for me is like.

[import_prophetz]

Pictures are going to be up tommorow morning, Just bought a new camera. Also I have a few people comming by to see the car and test drive it. Sending it to Wyoming in a month to fix all the problems. So I will have a few people to vouch plus pictures to show, and hopefully why my car is running the way it is.

[thaiguy303]

the car looks horrible man! I saw it. Engine looks terrible and paint was 5 thumbs down! Sorry about that man. I for sure aint never going there.

[import_prophetz]

I have a few more people looking at it, hopefully soon. And pictures up tommorow.

[M@]

the car looks horrible man! I saw it. Engine looks terrible and paint was 5 thumbs down! Sorry about that man. I for sure aint never going there.

Double negative. You just said you'll be going there.

[Kinematics]

Sorry you had to find out the hard way. Don has hosed up a good number of motors, and always somehow gets to blame it on something/someone else.

CoRN and RMDSM have a good number of posts regarding the quality of his work.

I've had a crap experience at HRD also regarding a KA24DE cylinder head and engine work on a BMW. When I made a thread about it on codrift I was banned after he tossed a bunch of excuses around with no offer to rectify the situation in any way. Definitely some shady shit going on. I'm sure Don does good work, but there is enough sketchy nonsense happening in relation to his shop that I'd suggest anyone do their research and think long and hard before they decide to take their car to HRD.

Original poster, if you have to take your car to a shop, take it to MAC. They know 240s like no other shop in the area, most of the employees there own 240s, and while they also have had issues like any shop will, at least they don't dick around when it comes to fixing the problem.


but in this case he has kept the car for so long that in its self shows me he was working with a broke customer.

Totally untrue. My friend has a 240sx up at Don's shop right now awaiting a 1j swap, it's been there almost a year now, and as of the last time I asked my friend, the engine hasn't even been ordered yet. My cylinder head was at his shop nearly 2 months. Not bad for a hot tank and valve seals, I guess.

[fusionsport]

Reading comprehension- it really can make a difference!

No one here ever said Andys car was ready, no one here denied any issue he has had with it, with the exceptions of the gas cap missing and the cracked dash, although I honestly didnt check to see if it had one on arrival and am not sure how a dash cracking could possibly be our responsibilty. The paintwork and swap is our responsibility and we will take care of those things associated with them. Tom (kinematics) complaint was also acknowledged and we offered a resolution he did not wish to accept.
There is a similar theme here however, as both Andy and Tom REFUSED to have things we recommended done, and wanted it all done for the absolute cheapest they possibly could- In Andys case he literally told us he had no money for anything, not even a new fuel filter, slave cylinder, timing belt, heater hose- no money for nothing. We advised him there could be issues later, but he refused and thats his choice, and his right, however realize that all swaps are USED engines and may have issues when installed- even non-swapped cars can suffer as we have an R32 GTR here right now with similar running issues, just shipped in from Florida and running like total crap! Its actually against the law to NOT comply with a customers wishes regarding thier car- everyone has the right of refusal. In Toms case he refused to have the machine shop properly shim his head after a valve job and was warned that it would likely make noise, but that the machine shop would take care of it, even on the car if he brought it by- you actually cant ask for more stand-up than that. Tom couldnt do that of course because he had sold the car. He was also told when we did his BMW service that he should also do the water pump and t-belt since we had no way of knowing the last time it had been done- he refused and the WP failed about 4 months later, after he had sold the car.
We dont make such recomendations for our health- we make them because they are necassary to the good health of your car. If you refuse- thats fine and your right. However- dont blame us for not doing what you told us not to do! If you choose to assume you know more than the guy working on your car, then its on you after that. Will we accept responsibility for anything we do wrong? ABSOLUTELY! You will not find a single instance where we have told a customer that we would not help them solve thier issue. Everyone makes mistakes and anyone can have a bad day- its what you do afterwards that makes the difference and I firmly belive we go far beyond what most shops would ever consider- examples:
We had a 3000GT Sl we performed a TT swap to, the customer drove the car a short time, then managed to flood the car one morning and couldnt get it to restart. We paid the tow back to the shop, put in new plugs, and gave him the car back- no charge. He was so happy he paid for half the tow anyway! Fast forward a bit and he has now decided to build the engine (didnt trust the JDM used motor), add larger injectors and turbos, clutch, etc. We are even re-painting his hood and front bumper for him because he accidentally scraped our front gate leaving the shop once while trying to adjust his radio onthe way out. Not our fault, but its an simple easy thing for us to do for him.

Another example: we recently did a 6-bolt swap on a 2G. A couple weeks later the car acts like the fuel pump is bad. We tow the car in on our nickel ( a $230 tow- ouch!) and check the car out. We find no sign of fuel pump failure but replace it anyway as it could be an intermittent issue and its not worth the hassle if it is bad, and also replace the suspect PTU. No muss, no fuss and while nothing was actually "our fault" we took care of it.

Because of instances like Tom and Andy however, we have stopped "helping" people out, and have stopped just accepting jobs like these without careful consideration. It just doesnt work out for us in the end, as we tend to lose money on the deal and then get bad-mouthed later- a real lose-lose proposition. All of us here prefer shiny happy customers, and we also like to be able to eat. Me and those that work for me strive to give the customer what they really want, and to do it at a price they can afford. All of the guys who work me are not perfect, but they do care about what they are doing and are always trying to imrove.

[Kinematics]

Don, I don't want this to turn into a thread about my problems with your shop, but I don't ever remember you offering me a solution. So, what is your solution to the problem now? The facts can be twisted around to your liking all you enjoy, but it's obvious there is enough problems with incidents regarding your shop that the problem lies with you, and not the customer.

If there was ever a better chance to rectify the problems happening with work done at your shop (or by a shop you use), it would be now.

[fusionsport]

Tom how the hell can I "make it right" when you sold the car?

[M@]

Sexual favors would be my first guess.

[Kinematics]

Tom how the hell can I "make it right" when you sold the car?

I don't care about the BMW, I already told you my issue with that is minimal, since you didn't do the water pump, although there were other problems with the car that stemmed from the work you did do. I may have an issue with your shop, but I'm not going to be dishonest about things in order to make a point or cause others to decide not to use your services. I could see where a shop owner however would be in a position to say anything necessary to ensure the reputation of the shop. Like in this thread and the older one I made on codrift that was locked and resulted in me being banned.

The cylinder head is where I have qualms, but even that is minimal enough that I don't consider it a big deal. Shit happens, not everything always goes smoothly and you can't expect everything to go the way it should. However, the real big deal I have, is the lack of initiative on your part to fix the problem.

[Evil_SpeedRacer]

Yikes, it keeps getting worse and worse in this thread... I can't believe you got banned from codrift because of issues you had with a shop. I don't know how the rules over there go, but that seems wrong. Why would they ban you for sticking up for yourself/looking out for others?

[Kinematics]

Yikes, it keeps getting worse and worse in this thread... I can't believe you got banned from codrift because of issues you had with a shop. I don't know how the rules over there go, but that seems wrong. Why would they ban you for sticking up for yourself/looking out for others?


Because the internet is serious business.

[fusionsport]

I don't care about the BMW, I already told you my issue with that is minimal, since you didn't do the water pump, although there were other problems with the car that stemmed from the work you did do. I may have an issue with your shop, but I'm not going to be dishonest about things in order to make a point or cause others to decide not to use your services. I could see where a shop owner however would be in a position to say anything necessary to ensure the reputation of the shop. Like in this thread and the older one I made on codrift that was locked and resulted in me being banned.

The cylinder head is where I have qualms, but even that is minimal enough that I don't consider it a big deal. Shit happens, not everything always goes smoothly and you can't expect everything to go the way it should. However, the real big deal I have, is the lack of initiative on your part to fix the problem.


Tom I seriously resent that- I told you BEFORE you even picked up the head the machine shop needed to properly shim it, but it would be a day or so before they could. You said to just give youthe head back. Note: there was no charge for this, just the machine shop was out of the specific sizes needed to do the job and you didnt want to wait for them to come in. They did not want to just give the head back half-done, but you insisted. This is an IMPORTANT POINT! You asked for your head back despite thier protest and mine. You then hit me up on AIM after you installed the head and told me it was noisy. I IMMEDIATELY called the machine shop and they said to just bring the head in, on the car or off, and they would be glad to shim it properly, again free of charge- I informed you of this on AIM while I was on the phone with them. This is above and beyond IMHO, but you decided not to bother.
What more could we have offered you Tom? We TOLD you up-front the head would make noise, you decided you knew more than we did and took it anyway. when we were right you were pissed, but apparently not enough to get it fixed- so I ask you- what more could we have done? You made all the decisions, we made none. My guess is you already had the car sold as well, and I am betting you never informed the new owner that they could have the head shimmed.

NOTHING we did had anything to do withthe failure of your BMW- the WP failed and the car overheated cracking the thermostat housing as well, a common and well-documented problem with the cars and one I am sure you will remember I made certian to inform you of.

Im not sure why Tom was banned from codrift, you would have to ask the admins there, but my guess is it has something to do with his personality. I actually like Tom, but this is irritating when I know we did all we could and it was his choices and not ours that led to his issues.

[thimages]

Yikes, it keeps getting worse and worse in this thread... I can't believe you got banned from codrift because of issues you had with a shop. I don't know how the rules over there go, but that seems wrong. Why would they ban you for sticking up for yourself/looking out for others?

It's called "drama".

On some forums, drama is to be avoided at all cost.

If someone gets screwed, too bad, it's not the admins job to police the membership.

Hal

[Kinematics]

Tom I seriously resent that- I told you BEFORE you even picked up the head the machine shop needed to properly shim it, but it would be a day or so before they could. You said to just give youthe head back. Note: there was no charge for this, just the machine shop was out of the specific sizes needed to do the job and you didnt want to wait for them to come in. They did not want to just give the head back half-done, but you insisted. This is an IMPORTANT POINT! You asked for your head back despite thier protest and mine. You then hit me up on AIM after you installed the head and told me it was noisy. I IMMEDIATELY called the machine shop and they said to just bring the head in, on the car or off, and they would be glad to shim it properly, again free of charge- I informed you of this on AIM while I was on the phone with them. This is above and beyond IMHO, but you decided not to bother.
What more could we have offered you Tom? We TOLD you up-front the head would make noise, you decided you knew more than we did and took it anyway. when we were right you were pissed, but apparently not enough to get it fixed- so I ask you- what more could we have done? You made all the decisions, we made none. My guess is you already had the car sold as well, and I am betting you never informed the new owner that they could have the head shimmed.

NOTHING we did had anything to do withthe failure of your BMW- the WP failed and the car overheated cracking the thermostat housing as well, a common and well-documented problem with the cars and one I am sure you will remember I made certian to inform you of.

Im not sure why Tom was banned from codrift, you would have to ask the admins there, but my guess is it has something to do with his personality. I actually like Tom, but this is irritating when I know we did all we could and it was his choices and not ours that led to his issues.

I still own the 240sx, as you can see in my signature, and I had the head fixed at a reputable shop already. Anyway, what you're talking about now sounds to me like another one of these recurring "miscommunication" problems your shop seems to have.

Remember those two ziplock bags I gave you with the cylinder head? One had the cam retainers (which are numbered in order via stamp on the cast), and the other bag had the shims and buckets, FULLY NUMBERED (as in on both the shim and the bucket) with a sharpie pen in the proper order they were to be reassembled. That is why I did not request the head shimmed by the shop, I wanted it to be put back in the order it was originally in, and then if it made noise after that point it would have been on me and not your shop.

However, as you know it was just tossed back together out of order, which is why the cylinder head had improper clearance. I understand it is very easy to forget these important details when you're doing everything you can to make people believe your side of the story. ADDITIONALLY, not only were the shims and buckets all out of order, so were the retainers, and the cams were on the wrong side from where they belong. I was unable to reassemble the shims where they went because the marks I made on them were wiped off. I was only able to tell they were out of order because some of the marks were partially still there, and it was very obvious things were not were they belonged, even more so when the car was started and driven around.

[fusionsport]

Tom, as you have been told many times once the valves and seats were cut it didnt matter where the shims ended up. Machine shops know this and therefore do not keep track of what goes where, as they plan on reshimming it. Yes, they threw it back together, and I did have a conversation about your expectations the head would be re-assembled as you had everything labled. They were also under the (wrong) impression the head would be shimmed before it was installed, because to be honest they couldnt understand how anyone who knew anything about an engine would NOT properly shim the valves after a head job. SO we have:
FACT: You did bring us the parts all nice and labled
FACT: The machine shop did a full valve job, which made it nec to have new and proper shims fitted
FACT: They (through me) made you aware of the need for shimming BEFORE they brought the head back over, and it was only under Protest they returned the head.
FACT: They (through me) offered to properly shim the head if you brought it to them
FACT: They did not pay attention to which shim went where when they re-assembled it, because it did not matter, it needed to be properly shimmed anyway.


No need to twist anything, the facts are the facts.

[Pang]

My head hurts from all the reading.

[Kinematics]

Well then I guess there's nothing left to say except that I'm very pleased with the work you did, the price I paid, your customer service and that your shop was great. I think the guy who originally made this thread should say the same, since obviously all the "problems" with your shop are actually problems stemming from the customer and that you have never done any wrong with his situation or mine. I just like to make up stories and lies when a shop has done good work. It was all just a funny joke, haha! It was just for fun, that's why I've been back so many times since, and why so many people who have read and heard both sides of the story have also decided to try or continue to return to your shop.

Everyone else, you should try HRD, they are fucken awesome and no problems whatsoever. A+, would use again.

[jackmode9316]

I sense a hint of sarcasm.

[talice]

I think I'll just stick to doing my own work, rather than taking it somewhere. So then if it breaks, I'll have no one to blame but myself.

[fusionsport]

WTF are you talking about Tom? As already pointed out, WE OFFERED to solve the issue you had with us- you declined. What more did you want us to do? Thats a serious question. You said all you wanted was a more innitiative response- how much more innitiative can there be when we warn you there will be a problem even before you pick up the part? And then when you tell us about the issue did we not INSTANTLY get ahold of the machine shop and see what they would do to take care of it? Hell I was talking to you on AIM and them on the phone- both chiding them for not reassembling the head as you wanted AND making sure they were going to stand behind thier work- which they were more than willing to do! WTF man? Seriously what did you want us to do? No sarcasm etc- I really want to know what you would have had us do in this situation?

[import_prophetz]

he most likely decline knowing he would recieve the same service as before! Uploading pictures at the moment. Should have them posted within a hour.

[import_prophetz]

Both Pictures and Videos are now up. I linked the video to youtube. Please understand I am just letting everybody know of the bad service I recieved. I am not saying that everbody will recieve the same service from Don. But the reason why I didnt mention this on the forums untill now is because I was waiting to get my car back. Please look through all of the pictures and videos and read the comment. The Video is when my 240sx is at full throttle and with a brand new greddy type RS BOV. Just got it today.

here is a guy that also got screwed from HRD, and now is banned from COdrift.org becasue of his comment.
http://www.codrift.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4916

[Terry]

Not seeing any videos

[M@]

Check the first page, noob.

I'm not taking sides, but holy fuck that's a hacked paint job. Maaco would have done better for half the price.

[thimages]

Maaco would have done better for half the price.

heh

All it needs is a little light buffing ;NutKick;

[co_hatch]

car sounds like complete shit.......


sorry thats just horrible...

was their a guarantee on the motor ?

or was it we dont guarantee our USED motors but we will swap it in kind of deal?

either way, i hope you got it running right, but damn.....

[import_prophetz]

I am not going back, I rather scrap the motor and re-do the whole thing. I rather spend another $3000 to get it right. Wouldnt be what I want to do with my money, but I might have to.

[co_hatch]

so... no warranty then?

[import_prophetz]

Not sure, Im sure Don will go on this site and answer that question soon. But either way I am not going to drop it back off just to miss my car for another year.

[co_hatch]

true...

dont blame ya...

unless you can come to some kind of an agreement ya know? like finish the motor in a week or something or two weeks

lol.. i know it probably wouldnt happen..

hopefully you can get things figured out with that motor as it is...hopefully its something small and stupid.....



gl mayn!

[hrcDSM719]

Thats a good point^^

Not trying to take sides, but if I were the customer, and my car was there more than a year, only to leave with a poorly running swap and a sub-maaco paintjob Id be pissed too...

But at the same time, having worked in a few shops, some customers are never happy, and want everything for nothing. As a customer, it must be understood that you do wind up getting what you paid for, one way or another. Whether it be in parts, or labor for that matter.From the sounds of it, some cheesy aftermarket peices were purchased in order to spare some pocketbook stress, hence modifications, and possible/apparent running problems. (correct?) Only to seemingly cause more of a headache for both parties.

Either way, it seems like Don (dont know him or anything, could be way off...haha) is a nice guy, and it does seem like he was attempting to rectify a potentially(and now fully) shitty situation.

And with that said, if I were in the shoes of the customer, and I saw my car looking and running like it is/was, no way would I sign the workorder let alone take it home. If something isnt as it should be after shelling out a fat wad of cash, then its not leaving until it IS as it should be. Period!

Just my .02 on the subject...

[co_hatch]

werd

agreed^^

[hrcDSM719]

Because the internet is serious business.


:D:rofl::biggthump:gapteeth::werd::biggrin:

...for some, yes....although I find it a lil funny. What a bunch of sissy-lalas to kick you out for having beef with a shop!

[thimages]

That's a 9 second paint job!

[import_prophetz]

hahaha, I had a maaco check out my paint job. I wanted them to sand it all down and fix some of the damage it has. They laughed. The maaco I went to was off Ralston and Sheridan, I talked to a guy named Dennis. That made me feel good about my car when Maaco laughs at it.

[RiceNmotioN]

i can Vouch for this Damage...real U G L Y.........

[DJ Coupon]

i wouldn't "stand behind that paint"....it might drip on your shoes.

[fusionsport]

Andy has been told many times to set up an appointment with Chance to fix the paintwork, at our cost. He would actually have had it all done before Andy picked up the car had he known before he left for vacation.

And with that said, if I were in the shoes of the customer, and I saw my car looking and running like it is/was, no way would I sign the workorder let alone take it home. If something isnt as it should be after shelling out a fat wad of cash, then its not leaving until it IS as it should be. Period!

Good point- the car should not have left. Also, it isnt like we just called him up one morning and said- hey, your cars ready- Andy had many many chances to look over the car and be as picky as he wanted to be- I can say with certianty that had he pointed out anything we didnt already know about it would have been fixed.

As to the warranty on the engine- the vendor I use covers the engine against internal failures for something like 90 days after delivery to the customer. I generically warranty our work for at least a year- ie: if a motor mount comes loose then its on us. Had we done a timing belt, WP, etc and it failed it would be on us. However, this is a USED engine, and external sensors etc are not covered, by us or the vendor. Also dont get the idea Andy paid is a ton of money to do the swap, he paid:
$1500(shipped) for the CA18DET swap, including trans and ECU
$200 for the Clutch
$525 to install the engine
$195 to install the FMIC kit(including cutting the chassis to fit)
$145 for the Odyssey battery
$80 to modify his SR DP to fit the CA


He paid $0 to:
-Install and bleed the clutch slave cyl
-the clutch slave itself(about $50)
-the multiple times we tried to fit his OEM and SR downpipes to the CA because he insisted it would fit
-multiple boost leak test(all showing the fake Greddy BOV was leaking, along with ithers)
-$48 bucks worth of Iridium spark plugs, along with a second set of normal plugs
-the second battery we bought for him
-the many, many hours my guys spent on the car diagnosing the issues, changing alternators, etc etc etc.

All in all I lost a crapload on this job, but hey- thats the way it goes. We are STILL willing to take care of the paint issues, and we will still help him with the running problems within reason.

[hrcDSM719]

Honestly Prophets, Id take it back to him and let him try to fix the situation. Granted he had it for a year+, but he's offering to fix the mistakes.

Jus sayin, Id take him up on the offer...

[Kwando]

hes fessing up to the mistake and agreeing to make it right, take it back to him. shit can it get any worse? or are you afraid to face him like a man.

[thebluesky]

[quote=fusionsport;808437]

As to the warranty on the engine- the vendor I use covers the engine against internal failures for something like 90 days after delivery to the customer. I generically warranty our work for at least a year- ie: if a motor mount comes loose then its on us. Had we done a timing belt, WP, etc and it failed it would be on us. However, this is a USED engine, and external sensors etc are not covered, by us or the vendor. Also dont get the idea Andy paid is a ton of money to do the swap, he paid:
$1500(shipped) for the CA18DET swap, including trans and ECU
$200 for the Clutch
$525 to install the engine
$195 to install the FMIC kit(including cutting the chassis to fit)
$145 for the Odyssey battery
$80 to modify his SR DP to fit the CA


He paid $0 to:
-Install and bleed the clutch slave cyl
-the clutch slave itself(about $50)
-the multiple times we tried to fit his OEM and SR downpipes to the CA because he insisted it would fit
-multiple boost leak test(all showing the fake Greddy BOV was leaking, along with ithers)
-$48 bucks worth of Iridium spark plugs, along with a second set of normal plugs
-the second battery we bought for him
-the many, many hours my guys spent on the car diagnosing the issues, changing alternators, etc etc etc.
quote]

Let us also not forget he also traded a car + $600 as well towards this. Regardless of what you feel it was worth after the fact, you did accept it as payment and needs to be factored in the his cost.

[import_prophetz]

Im glad he did admit some of his fault, but I am not going to put it back in. But why would I pay for something that wasnt my fault. The slave cylinder was fine when I had a fully built KA in it. And some unknown fluid that look like oil was in there. I was misinformed the SR pipe would fit, which is my fault. Since HRD installed the motor and supplied the motor was it my fault there was boost leaks, plus I just bought a new Greddy Type-RS so you cant blame it on the knock off since the car does have the same symtoms as before. I bought the first battery from you and it was faulty because you left it there dead for so long, so you replacing the battery should have been the case anyways, All the issue was cause by a motor swap I did pay you to do. Most the time when you pay for a motor swap I believe it runs decent when you leave. You charged me another $150 for the gauge cluster which I bought a different one already, forgot to mention that, plus I paid $250 for the exedy clutch, and $40 for re-surface the flywheel, plus another $40 for oil and lubes. You also blame the lag on gas which I replace with 91 and octane booster. Plus I paid $2700 for the swap orginally and it added up since then. all you had to to was cut a 3.5" diameter hole to get the intercooler in. Stop trying to lie about what I paid. You charged me $700 to install the engine, and waived $500 to remove the engine since I had alreay removed my previous setup. If I didnt pay all cash I would show everybody that you are just trying to make me look like I didnt have the money.

[thebluesky]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0669.jpg




Previously, you responded to me that it was industry standard to use high quality wiring crimps and heat shrink tube to do it right. You also stated how you personally watched and check your employee's work. Unless I'm losing my mind, I don't see any heat shrink tube to say the least.

Personally, this looks like it'll be an absolute nightmare to sort through.


That paint/bodywork needs a lot more than what you alledged. Just judging by the pictures, it needs to be completely stripped, and redone. Buffing it will do nothing where the paint is too thin, even less where it's non-existent.

90 day warranty from the engine supplier? That's definitely non-existant at this point. Does your one-year warranty cover any damage you may have done to any of the sensors? One sensor that comes the mind is the maf.

The dash does look suspect. It looks like somebody hit it with something or rested something heavy on it.

[import_prophetz]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/VacationCali2006013.jpg

I traded this civic, It had a newer d15 motor in it about 55k or so. I also had a 98 Front end conversion with blk housing headlights and type-r front lip. But the paint was chipping because of a issue with the last buyer. Also needed about $100 for the tranny cause the last guy messed it all up and the paint was chipping. The trim around the CD player was broken and all the speakers stolen plus it didnt have a deck because of the last buyer. But here is a general idea of what I traded in. Clean title, cant remember what was on the odometer.

[import_prophetz]

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/prophetzgirl/GEDC0669.jpg
Wirinf harness



Previously, you responded to me that it was industry standard to use high quality wiring crimps and heat shrink tube to do it right. You also stated how you personally watched and check your employee's work. Unless I'm losing my mind, I don't see any heat shrink tube to say the least.

Personally, this looks like it'll be an absolute nightmare to sort through.

Its funny how lies can catch up on you.

[import_prophetz]

i wouldn't "stand behind that paint"....it might drip on your shoes.

This is a way to see humor out of such a horrible situation. But money can be replaced and it will be replaced within another year after I start my next projects.

[fusionsport]

Its funny how lies can catch up on you.

Reading comprehension again-

No, the industry standard is high-quality crimps and crimping tool, along with heatshrink, which we have and used- solder is for car stereos. However, when Scott was first here he did some soldering/electrical tape BS he learned elsewhere and there is a chance he did some of that to the 240 while trying to diagnos the running issue. If that truly is the case he will re-do it correctly as he has now been properly trained. If he was testing something and forgot to double-check it and make it permenant that is a worse and if that is the case we will have a conversation Monday morning, and he will correct it. I know for a fact that ALL connections we did on the harness initially were properly crimped and heat-shrinked, because I watched Josh do it and checked it after.


I am sure Scott will have his own comment regarding the wiring he did.

[STIBungy]

Those 3 wires look like they have heatshrink on them. I would've at least bundled them together rather leave them dangling loosely.

[thebluesky]

I could be wrong about this, because honestly I am not sure where Scott left off on it, but I believe the heater hoses were not reconnected because they require a molded hose Andy did not wish to buy. Once again thats his choice, not mine. I know $20-ish in hoses doesnt sound like much, but he literally would not spend the money, and there is a limit to how much I will do for free.
After looking at the engine pictures, you crudely joined two entirely diferent sized air hoses together and didn't even attempt this with the heater hoses??


No, the industry standard is high-quality crimps and crimping tool, along with heatshrink, which we have and used- solder is for car stereos. However, when Scott was first here he did some soldering/electrical tape BS he learned elsewhere and there is a chance he did some of that to the 240 while trying to diagnos the running issue. If that truly is the case he will re-do it correctly as he has now been properly trained. If he was testing something and forgot to double-check it and make it permenant that is a worse and if that is the case we will have a conversation Monday morning, and he will correct it. I know for a fact that ALL connections we did on the harness initially were properly crimped and heat-shrinked, because I watched Josh do it and checked it after.
You did say this, did you not? THose pictures clearly don't show quality wiring as you described.


IIRC (and I do) Andy paid me $600 and traded me the Honda, which needed a lot of work. The paint was messed up, the front end conversion was not done very well, the hood was bent, the wrong bolts had been used on the flexplate cauing us to replace it, the wiring was absolutely the worst I have ever seen, the VTEC control wires were literally twisted together with electrical tape(barely)covering them and I actually dont think it was wired properly, the coolant temp sender wires were broken, the dash was fucked from the kid he sold the car to and had to repo it from, the interior was beat and took a lot of work to get nice again, and so on and so forth- I agreed the car was worth $1500-ish at that time, but only did the trade to help Andy out, I had less than zero interest in the car.
Your comments here I find amusing after looking at the pictures of the car you worked a year on.

For that $2100-ish he got:
MANY dents repaired, the entire car scuffed and sanded- a LOT of time ahd to go into the roof, because it was really badly dented. The entire car was rattlecanned flat black and it should have been completely stripped to metal, but Andy specifically said thats not what he wanted or would pay for.
The entire car was primed in PPG K36 primer to seal the rattlecan layer.
4 coats of PPG basecoat applied
4 coats of PPG clear applied
Entire car wetsanded and buffed
Yes, Maaco might be able to price-match that, but I think when you add the bodywork, prep-time, etc in they will actually be more expensive and use lesser quality materials
I've literally seen rattlecan paintjobs using no clearcoat that looked far better than what I'm seeing in his pictures done by people who didn't know what they were doing but did it logically, and in their garage too no less.


Hey heres one for you:
We provided an Odyssey PC680 battery because the FMIC piping he brought us required it. Now, this battery is less than 2 months old, but its already dead, most likely due to the alternator in the car being bad, and I doubt my vendor will warranty it.
Is anyone else confused by this whole battery thing? First you say you gave it to him, and that it was bad due to a faulty alternator. How does a faulty alternator cause a battery to leak?? Later you claim to have sold it to him. Why don't we get the truth out of this battery deal and what really caused it to leak.

When Andy came to get the car while I was out of town, the battery finally gave up and my employee Scott stayed until 3AM rigging a battery to work! Why? Why not just come back when we have had the battery warrantied out and the correct battery put in its place?
After see the pictures and videos, the answer should be pretty self evident.

I agree with you as to not knowing why it took a year to put together a car that looked an ran like that. That is complete and utter nonsense. This is a guy who wanted a basic swap and basic bodywork done, paid for it, and didn't recieve what he paid for. It looks like it was treated like crap, and runs even worse. I would never put myself through that nonsense, no less take it back to put myself through more.

Frankly sir, I'm disgusted with the quality of work illustrated here.

[thebluesky]

I am sure Scott will have his own comment regarding the wiring he did.

Let him comment all he wants. I'm looking at the pictures and they say enough.

[Kinematics]

Wow, that work really is awful, I remember seeing your car up at his shop for quite some time parked next to the other 240 that's been waiting on a 1j swap for the past 8 months or so... I wondered who owned it.

Anyway, I suggest just cutting your losses and never using HRD again. Let everyone see the work his shop does so they can decide for themselves if the shop is worth it. I know plenty of people who will never use his shop as a result of everything that has happened so far regarding your situation and my own. As I stated before in my earlier replies, I don't use dishonesty as a tactic to sway others opinions, but seeing how many times Don has lied or twisted things regarding what has happened to you and I, speaks volumes about his business practices.

Don is a good guy and his shop is capable of good work, but there are some questionable practices that are a huge sore to the reputation of his shop. Hopefully he can turn things around so his shop doesn't go out of business from a ruined reputation. There's been many shops in Colorado that have bit the dust as a result of situations like these.

[ryanman]

You should all learn how to work on your own shit, then you wouldn't have problems like this.

[Kinematics]

You should all learn how to work on your own shit, then you wouldn't have problems like this.

Agreed completely, but it's hard to do a hot tank or valve seals when you don't have the tools or facilities to do it.

[ryanman]

I do realize that part, very true. As for the rest of the stuff...only way you're gonna learn anything is by doing it, dig in and learn. I love that one sticker..."built, not bought".

[import_prophetz]

I agree with both of you, I do know how to do motor swaps and worked on a few b series (heard they are about the same diffculty), and know alot of people who could have done it also. But keep in mind i work over 60 hours a week and go to University of Colorado at Denver full time. I just didnt want to put my car aside