Bond's breaks the record! Tainted or not?

[Dave_L]

So Barry Bonds finally broke Hank Aaron's record last night against Washington. But like everyone else is thinking, is his record tainted? What do you all think about it? I personally have to question it since his average HR's per season were only like 50 or so until he got enhanced and then it shot up there. I'm sure he could have still broken the record but it would have taken a few more seasons.

[doogie06]

Yes and no. Yes because obviously he took some sort of performance enhancer in his career. No because before he bulked up he was one of the best ball players in our era, a healthy Ken Griffey and Barry Bonds were the ones that everyone was chasing. Now it is a waiting game to see what comes out of it, Barry Bonds told someone that when he breaks the record "some things are going to be said", so, we'll have to see where he goes with this, it'll either be a finger pointing contest or he'll fess up to something. Either way, the record is his and as much as I dislike him, he did earn it.

[DrJones]

I disagree with the people who justify the record by saying how good he was before he started using the 'performance enhancers.'

Letting him hold the record and putting him into the hall of fame is a mistake.

I get pretty pissed off when pros use steroids and get off with just a small suspension or fine. It's like the rules of the NFL, NBA, MLB etc are above the laws of the United States.

He shouldn't hold the record. Why? Because he should of been in jail for breaking the law, and not had a chance to hit any of them.

Giving him the record is worse than letting Paris off as easy as they did. Yet it's fueled by the same motivating factors.

[Conrad]

^Agreed

[M@]

Giving him the record is worse than letting Paris off as easy as they did. Yet it's fueled by the same motivating factors.

Ummmmmmmm.... did you seriously just say using steroids is worse than driving drunk?

I want some of whatever you're on.

[Dave_L]

Ummmmmmmm.... did you seriously just say using steroids is worse than driving drunk?

I want some of whatever you're on.

No, he's saying that them letting Paris off so easily is really fucked up but this is even more fucked up. They are basically promoting the use of steroids. Saying its ok and that there are no consequences for it.

[doogie06]

I can see where you're coming from with the steroid issue. But, basically you are saying that every pro sport should come to a screeching halt then. To single out Bonds is basically suicide for the MLB, because his lawyers would have a field day with it. How can we point the finger at him when the pitcher that is throwing has two needles hanging out of his ass? It is pathetic, I agree, but considering what a large scale issue this is, sports would have to be stopped as a whole. Look at these NFL players you're telling me that is "natural"? Please. The real sad part is that now it is filtering down to college's and high school's and coaches/admin's are acting blind to it so they can better their careers.

[M@]

No, he's saying that them letting Paris off so easily is really fucked up but this is even more fucked up. They are basically promoting the use of steroids. Saying its ok and that there are no consequences for it.
Ummmm.... okay, but how does one still justify the use of a performance enhancing drug being more extreme than driving drunk? Sure, steroids has a negative effect, and is risky to others down the road, not necessarily will it happen, but it has before (Chris Benoit, anyone?). However, how many people are killed per year due to drunken driving, in which several people are put in IMMEDIATE risk?

You're comparing Doogie to Pommy here (apples and oranges, haw haw), they're nowhere similar and the penalties for steroid usage shouldn't even be in the same ballpark (pun not intended :D) as that for driving drunk.

[monicle]

whose taint?

[Conrad]

i doubt cocaine kills as many people as drunk driving but is just as if not more illegal...

[Dave_L]

What about all the kids that look up to Barry Bonds and see him as an idol? They know he's been juicin' and they see what it did for him. Now they are starting sports and they want to be the best and start breaking records so they decide to start juicin' at a young age. Now their body is going to start breaking down way early and the effects can really start fucking up America's youth.

[Dave_L]

For the record, I'm not condoneing drunk driving. It is a bad thing to do and all the celebrities get off way too easily when they get busted for it.

[doogie06]

What about all the kids that look up to Barry Bonds and see him as an idol? They know he's been juicin' and they see what it did for him. Now they are starting sports and they want to be the best and start breaking records so they decide to start juicin' at a young age. Now their body is going to start breaking down way early and the effects can really start fucking up America's youth.

Agreed. But, to pick out Barry Bonds individually would be stupid. There are so many records that are broken in every sport that can be traced back to roids or some sort of drug if they wanted to dig that far. So, the thing to do would be to stop it in general from the little league's all the way up. But, that would require honesty, determination, and good sportsmanship...which isn't going to happen with today's athlete, it's all about the records and money, you don't break records you don't make money. It's sad, very sad, but sports in a whole has changed, it's not about the game anymore.

[M@]

What about all the kids that look up to Barry Bonds and see him as an idol? They know he's been juicin' and they see what it did for him. Now they are starting sports and they want to be the best and start breaking records so they decide to start juicin' at a young age. Now their body is going to start breaking down way early and the effects can really start fucking up America's youth.

I still have yet to see anything that would justify saying that juicing deserves a harsher (or even equivilant) penalty as driving drunk.

Food for thought:
"There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

The 16,885 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes during 2005 represent an average of one alcohol-related fatality every 31 minutes."

(Source: http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html - remember to mouse over, folks. :D)

[Dave_L]

But all the ads don't promote drinking and driving. That's what this is doing in the minds of kids/athletes. They are basically saying its ok to use steriods. Like Doogie said, It wouldnt be fair to single out Bonds but sometimes an example needs to be made.

[Conrad]

I still have yet to see anything that would justify saying that juicing deserves a harsher (or even equivilant) penalty as driving drunk.

Food for thought:
"There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

The 16,885 fatalities in alcohol-related crashes during 2005 represent an average of one alcohol-related fatality every 31 minutes."

(Source: http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html - remember to mouse over, folks. :D)


Justifying one wrong by another is lame...

[M@]

How are they promoting it when nothing's been proven? Show me the ads that are saying "LOLz, LOOK KIDZ! Barry Bonds is juicin' up! You should too!"... you won't because they don't exist. Like I said before, you're comparing an apple to an entirely higher level of orange here.

[Dave_L]

M@, you're straying away from the topic at hand. Everyone knows Bonds was juicing and they are celebrating the fact that he broke the record. You don't have to use words to convey a topic/idea. Just by them letting him have the record, they are promoting the use of steroids.

Now let's say in a few years, we find out that John Force was drunk for every race he won. For some odd reason, it made him a better driver. But NHRA didn't do anything about it. They let him still have all his wins/records. How would that look?

[M@]

I see your point of view, but they wouldn't. Hence my whole reasoning behind my argument. Drinking and driving is so much harsher than fucking steroids. If you can't agree with that, that's shitty. Especially given the stats I showed you. You know, I searched for steroid related death stats and couldn't find shit. I know they're out there, but they're nowhere near the same.

When I searched for alcohol-related deaths, it took me all of one link to find the info I posted above. That oughta say something right there.

[doogie06]

Ok, let's end the whole drunken driving-steroids comparison here. Drunken driving you are putting others in danger as well as yourself, steroids only mess you up, end of that.

[M@]

That's basically my entire point in a nutshell; exactly why the penalties should be nowhere near the same.

[Dave_L]

Like I said, I'm not condoneing drinking and driving. It's straight up retarded. The penalties for getting caught are ridiculously low. But that's not the topic at hand. If you want to discuss drinking and driving, start a new thread. No one will argue the fact that it's retarded. This thread is about the use of steroids and how many pro athletes get away with it. It's given a blind eye in pro sports and now its trickling down to college and high school sports. I talked to a kid I went to high school with. He went to college and played baseball and they juiced him up. Now he's back here with a bunch of fucked up joints and stuff bc of the juice. He doesnt play sports any more. So just because there aren't published stats and websites, doesn't mean its not a serious problem.

[doogie06]

Steroids are a horrible thing, immediate result yes, but long term they will mess your body up something fierce. My main point and pretty much only point is this, I don't condone steroids, I think they should be taken out of sports all together and the people that use them should be punished; however, they should be punished as a whole. To strip Bonds of this record would be absolutely ridiculous when we can look at all the major sports and see records falling due to some sort of performance enhancer. Plus, it's too late now, as soon as the issue came up they should have said it "you are done with professional baseball", to look back on it and say "well….your record wasn't really earned" is just going to change the face of sports as we know it, analysts will be looking back for the past thirty years and start taking records away left and right, "oh, you used caffeine, that makes you focus more, sorry your record is gone". Also, records are a bit stupid when you really think about it, comparing the times when Aaron played to now is such a huge difference. When Aaron played there was smaller parks and worse pitching, with Bonds there is performance enhancers and better technology in equipment.

[Dave_L]

I'm gonna start juicin' so I can Dex the shit out of Talice.

[Conrad]

I'm gonna start juicin' so I can Dex the shit out of Talice.

you would need juice to lift a dex you woman!

[nicklk]

His record won't last long, A-Rod is going to demolish it without any sports enhancing drugs

[Dave_L]

you would need juice to lift a dex you woman!

Go to the gym once and then talk your shit.

[Dave_L]

His record won't last long, A-Rod is going to demolish it without any sports enhancing drugs

Did you see the game where the Yankee's hit 8 HR's in one game but
A-rod went 0-5. :rofl: He had to have been depressed.

[Skaterkid]

I'd watch my words on that. A-Rod has a good chance at it. Remember 5 years ago when Griffey was destined to break the record? That could happen to A-Rod.

I hope that Bonds does get busted for juicing. And steroids in baseball now has significant consequences. Look at Rafael Palmerio. He wants to come back but nobody will sign him. It'll be curious if anyone signs Bonds next year so he can get 3000 hits. The NFL I worry about. Shawne Merriman should have been suspended for longer. And steriods can fuck up more than you. Incidents like Benoit killing someone are rare, but assaults due to roid rage are probably more common than thought.

[M@]

I'm gonna start juicin' so I can Dex the shit out of Talice.

:rofl:

you would need juice to lift a dex you woman!

:rofl: :rofl:

[Conrad]

Go to the gym once and then talk your shit.

I dont need to juice or go to the gym to lift a dex you woman... Some of us are created men... others (like yourself) need to train because they were testosteronely challenged as boys...

[nicklk]

I was actually asking myself last night when he hit the homerun, how many broken bones occured in the stands when about 1,000 people went after the ball

[M@]

I'd watch my words on that. A-Rod has a good chance at it. Remember 5 years ago when Griffey was destined to break the record? That could happen to A-Rod.

I hope that Bonds does get busted for juicing. And steroids in baseball now has significant consequences. Look at Rafael Palmerio. He wants to come back but nobody will sign him. It'll be curious if anyone signs Bonds next year so he can get 3000 hits. The NFL I worry about. Shawne Merriman should have been suspended for longer. And steriods can fuck up more than you. Incidents like Benoit killing someone are rare, but assaults due to roid rage are probably more common than thought.

Eh, probably is just as solid a statement as possibly; not very. There are no stats on it versus the tons of stats on DD'ing.

Dave's right, though. Back on topic - more dexing hookers.

[M@]

I dont need to juice or go to the gym to lift a dex you woman... Some of us are created men... others (like yourself) need to train because we were testosteronely challenged as boys...

So... you're admitting to being a woman?

[Conrad]

So... you're admitting to being a woman?

damnit.... papa smurf will never run! :rofl:

[M@]

Pwnt! Bwuahahahahahaha!

[Dave_L]

ROFL! +1 for M@.

[V8SpankR]

Drunk driving and alcohol related deaths are higher than ALL illegal drugs deaths put together.

I doubt he'll get in especially if soemthing is proved but some baseball writers (voters for the HOF) have already openly stated they would't vote Bonds in and it is a shame since he still is one of the best to play the game and it does still take talent to swing and hit those pitches.

[DrJones]

Driving drunk = illegal.
Using steroids = illegal.
Doing something illegal and getting off because you are a celebrity = legal?!?

That's the point I was trying to make. He broke the law. He should be in prison, but yet, he's not. He's still making millions playing his sport. That is what is wrong with this situation. Just because he's a celebrity of some sort he get's off. The feds should bring the charges against him, not the MLB.

It doesn't matter how good he was before he started using. He used, and he should be persecuted because of that. He obviously broke the law, but there is nothing being done from a legal standpoint.

[V8SpankR]

I wouldn't say he's getting off since if we had proof he might no even be playing baseball;we nned real evidence since just a big head and 73 HRs at 37 isn't enough in the eyes of the law.
He's most likely been supplied the best designer steroids available at the time and weren't detected in the weak tests MLB uses. It isn't coincedence that his best friend was Victor Conti.

We need real proof to convict and til then he hasn't broke any laws.

[Terry]

Bonds is cheat..the end.

[myshtern]

How did Paris Hilton get off? She served something like 2 weeks in jail. I know several guys around here who've gotten DUIs and didnt do anything.

[doogie06]

Really the finger should be pointed at MLB, when baseball took a nose dive and no one was watching it, baseball looked at the homerun hitters to be the savior. That is when this whole steroid era started, but now that people are using roids to hit the loved long-ball they are suddenly the enemy. I think baseball bit off more than they can chew and now they can't stop what they have started.

[V8SpankR]

Oh yeah,MLB is the biggest culprit and their commish is one of the worst in sports IMO and the guy has no backbone. Did you see his face when he was present at the tying HR;it looked like he was going to throw up.

[B20badboy]

This may have been mentioned prior I am too lazy to read it all but Bonds is up against other guy's who have also tested + for the roids. So basicly he is on the same level as the pitchers, etc... And I don't think I could ever hit 50 out of 750+ balls let alone they be home runs.

[bluetalon]

I heard that the company that supplies the uniforms reported his shoe size also went up 2 sizes when his uniform mysteriously need to be much larger. That would suggest he's taking Growth Hormone too.

[B20civic]

i hate that douchebag