Ticket Quotas for Denver PD [Archive]

Weston

05-06-2007, 12:03 AM

so it's true... they do have quotas. was never sure before. it's messed up though how they forcing to pull over. but i guess they just makin sure they are doing their jobs.

They and other agencies have pretty much always had quotas, but due to political and legal issues, they just can't call them quotas... instead, it's something like a "recommended level of enforcement". It puts the cops, and the people, in a crappy position.

9-GSR-6

05-06-2007, 12:19 AM

yea, meet this "suggested level of enforcement" or your fired.

Maverick

05-06-2007, 03:15 AM

To me it sounds like they are required to do 10-15 minutes worth of work every hour writing traffic tickets.......doesn't sound like much to me.

DrJones

05-06-2007, 07:26 AM

STIBungy

05-06-2007, 07:42 AM

Man, I goosed it leaving Speed Image last night, not knowing that there was a cop coming down the hill right behind me. Phewwwww. I think he had mexicans in his sight and not asian. :D

smithz

05-06-2007, 07:45 AM

I don't see what the big deal with these are.

Cops obviously won't get away with writing tickets for no reason. If people were getting written tickets for speeding when they weren't speeding, or running a stop sign when they weren't, you would hear about it much more than you do.

It's not hard to catch people breaking the law. All this really means is that they let fewer people are sent on their way without a ticket. I see no problem with that. If you broke the law, you broke the law and deserve the punishment suggested by the law. This isn't 'unfair' at all.

:werd: I was thinking the exact same thing.

These guys are fucking brilliant...

"They're making sure they're making money and that's not right," driver Dan Blanchard said. "They are going to pull people over for doing ten over, five over, whatever it is. That's not right."

That's not right? I guess they shouldn't be allowed to write tickets if you are going 10 over. :rofl:

"I guess it forces them to, you know, maybe someone that they wouldn't pull over before they would consider pulling over now because they need to meet their quota," driver Stephen Gulau said. "It's not giving someone a ticket because they broke the law; it's giving someone a ticket because they are supposed to give someone a ticket."

Sorry dumbass. They still have to break the law. And like Dr. J said... there's plenty to choose from.

These guys sound like illegals. They are used to getting away with breaking the law, and now they think they are in greater danger for getting nailed doing it. That's not right. :rofl:

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 07:45 AM

Cops have had quotas ever since they started clocking people on highways with stopwatches. The fact that a news agency has made a statement about it doesn't really change anything; motorcycle cops exist for one reason - to be fucking sneaky and write traffic tickets. Protect and serve... yeah right.

smithz

05-06-2007, 07:47 AM

Anyone else notice the time is off on HAI?

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 07:48 AM

Yeah.

Conrad

05-06-2007, 07:48 AM

When Colorado Springs police got their new harley motorcycles they put in the plan that they would increase ticketing to pay the extra cost of the bikes...

STIBungy

05-06-2007, 07:54 AM

Yeah, so now instead of my friendly neighborhood officer warning me that my taillight is out, he'll ticket me for it. Great!

I don't see what the big deal with these are.

Cops obviously won't get away with writing tickets for no reason. If people were getting written tickets for speeding when they weren't speeding, or running a stop sign when they weren't, you would hear about it much more than you do.

It's not hard to catch people breaking the law. All this really means is that they let fewer people are sent on their way without a ticket. I see no problem with that. If you broke the law, you broke the law and deserve the punishment suggested by the law. This isn't 'unfair' at all.

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 07:57 AM

STIBungy

05-06-2007, 07:58 AM

LOL.

Traffic tickets are revenue generators. Has nothing to do with behavior correction. I've spent well close to $800 in speeding tickets in the last 4 years (not including my insurance hike), and the only thing that did was encouraged me to do was to buy a radar detector and a sportbike. :rofl:

Conrad

05-06-2007, 08:09 AM

DrJones

05-06-2007, 09:32 AM

Of course.

Traffic tickets are revenue generators. Has nothing to do with behavior correction. I've spent well close to $800 in speeding tickets in the last 4 years (not including my insurance hike), and the only thing that did was encouraged me to do was to buy a radar detector and a sportbike. :rofl:

Of course, they are purely revenue generators and don't exist for any other reason. :rolleyes:

If we really did need traffic laws (which we obviously don't) than we could easily enforce them by just pulling people over and asking them nicely to stop breaking the law they are braking. Just a stern look followed by an "I'm sorry officer" would be more than enough to make our streets safe. Or, is that backwards, and do you think that we should put harsher punishments (like jailtime?).

They are just trying to enforce stupid laws like 'don't speed' and 'don't street race' and 'stay in your lane' and 'don't follow too close' and 'don't drive drunk' and 'don't drive recklessly' and 'don't run red lights' and 'respect signage' and 'don't throw crap out of your car' and 'drive a car that's safe to drive' and 'having valid, up to date tags' and 'having a license plate' and 'making sure your kids are in car seats'.

The government is always trying to oppress the working man! If I really need to get somewhere why can't I drive 60 mph past a school?

We should just get rid of tickets, and traffic laws, and cops. We don't need any of them!

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 10:33 AM

Of course, they are purely revenue generators and don't exist for any other reason. :rolleyes:

If we really did need traffic laws (which we obviously don't) than we could easily enforce them by just pulling people over and asking them nicely to stop breaking the law they are braking. Just a stern look followed by an "I'm sorry officer" would be more than enough to make our streets safe. Or, is that backwards, and do you think that we should put harsher punishments (like jailtime?).

They are just trying to enforce stupid laws like 'don't speed' and 'don't street race' and 'stay in your lane' and 'don't follow too close' and 'don't drive drunk' and 'don't drive recklessly' and 'don't run red lights' and 'respect signage' and 'don't throw crap out of your car' and 'drive a car that's safe to drive' and 'having valid, up to date tags' and 'having a license plate' and 'making sure your kids are in car seats'.

The government is always trying to oppress the working man! If I really need to get somewhere why can't I drive 60 mph past a school?

We should just get rid of tickets, and traffic laws, and cops. We don't need any of them!

You missed the point.

I'm not arguing traffic laws. They are there for a good reason, and in some cases actually do some good, (i.e., DUI laws). But what I AM arguing is the way that cops justify their "enforcement" of those laws. Doing 5 over the posted speed limit on a highway or large city street is one thing; running red lights and speeding through school zones is another. If cops were really about protecting and serving our citizens through traffic enforcement, then there should be cop posted at every intersection and every stretch of school zone streets. Cops need to be visible, and serve as a reminder that if you do something stupid, you will be penalized. But hiding behind a fucking tree with a radar gun? Give me a break.

And on another note, how many traffic citations written everyday do you think actually served to protect someone, or prevent a serious crime from occuring? I'd be willing to bet less than 1 percent. Where were the Denver cops when Darrent Williams was shot? Probably out writing some old lady a ticket for doing 6 over on I-25.

Nightfall

05-06-2007, 10:45 AM

Cops need to be visible, and serve as a reminder that if you do something stupid, you will be penalized. But hiding behind a fucking tree with a radar gun? Give me a break.
:werd:

On the other hand, however, this isn't Mayberry anymore. There is a lot more revenue needed to keep things going than Andy and Barney's paychecks...

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 10:54 AM

:werd:

On the other hand, however, this isn't Mayberry anymore. There is a lot more revenue needed to keep things going than Andy and Barney's paychecks...

Touche. :rofl:

Weston

05-06-2007, 11:08 AM

You missed the point.

I'm not arguing traffic laws. They are there for a good reason, and in some cases actually do some good, (i.e., DUI laws). But what I AM arguing is the way that cops justify their "enforcement" of those laws. Doing 5 over the posted speed limit on a highway or large city street is one thing; running red lights and speeding through school zones is another. If cops were really about protecting and serving our citizens through traffic enforcement, then there should be cop posted at every intersection and every stretch of school zone streets. Cops need to be visible, and serve as a reminder that if you do something stupid, you will be penalized. But hiding behind a fucking tree with a radar gun? Give me a break.

And on another note, how many traffic citations written everyday do you think actually served to protect someone, or prevent a serious crime from occuring? I'd be willing to bet less than 1 percent. Where were the Denver cops when Darrent Williams was shot? Probably out writing some old lady a ticket for doing 6 over on I-25.

:werd:

Police are normally given the power of discretion so that they can enforce the law in the way that best serves the community. For example, they are allowed to give warnings rather than tickets for petty things that don't hurt anyone. That allows people to correct things without being penalized for a victimless infraction, and also promotes a more positive image of the police, which does lead to an increased number of tips on actual crimes. Giving police ticket quotas hurts all of that and turns them into little more than revenue generators.

There's far more money in enforcing unrealistically low speed limits than there is in prosecuting actual criminals. Criminals usually don't have money, and they also require a much more involved investigation and prosecution, which costs money. Speeders are just average people, so they have more money, something to lose if they don't pay up, and a strong desire to just be done with it rather than going to trial. So, from a financial point of view, it makes sense to target speeders almost exclusively. I just don't think that putting finances ahead of public safety is in the best interest of the community.

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 11:16 AM

:werd:

Police are normally given the power of discretion so that they can enforce the law in the way that best serves the community. For example, they are allowed to give warnings rather than tickets for petty things that don't hurt anyone. That allows people to correct things without being penalized for a victimless infraction, and also promotes a more positive image of the police, which does lead to an increased number of tips on actual crimes. Giving police ticket quotas hurts all of that and turns them into little more than revenue generators.

There's far more money in enforcing unrealistically low speed limits than there is in prosecuting actual criminals. Criminals usually don't have money, and they also require a much more involved investigation and prosecution, which costs money. Speeders are just average people, so they have more money, something to lose if they don't pay up, and a strong desire to just be done with it rather than going to trial. So, from a financial point of view, it makes sense to target speeders almost exclusively. I just don't think that putting finances ahead of public safety is in the best interest of the community.

:werd:

Agreed. 100%.

chrisbarnett01

05-06-2007, 11:18 AM

I don't see what the big deal with these are.

Cops obviously won't get away with writing tickets for no reason. If people were getting written tickets for speeding when they weren't speeding, or running a stop sign when they weren't, you would hear about it much more than you do.

On my ride along with Aurora PD a few months back, I found out about their quota, and why the cops hated it.

Let's say its a busy night, and your 10 hour shift was filled with a few assistance calls, a suicide or murder or something, maybe a fight at a club, etc.

Few trips back and forth between jails and crime scenes, and you haven't written a ticket. Yet you can't work more than 10 hours, and you have to write at least one traffic ticket.

So you drive around and give the first ticket you can, even if its something the person would have never been ticketed for otherwise.

Honestly, the officers were pissed that they usually have to end up dicking someone over to meet their quota, when in reality that guy would have gotten off normally.

Example? Speeding tickets for going 3 mph too quick. Unsafe lane change when there is a car directly next to you two lanes over. Both are BS tickets, but are given out near end of shift if they don't see anyone else doing something blatantly obvious.

Deceptakhan

05-06-2007, 11:18 AM

Cops are such assholes.

chrisbarnett01

05-06-2007, 11:24 AM

Cops are such assholes.

Go do a ride along. Not really, most are just normal people trying to make a difference.

The agenda pushers are the ones that are assholes.

Weston

05-06-2007, 11:28 AM

Go do a ride along. Not really, most are just normal people trying to make a difference.

The agenda pushers are the ones that are assholes.

:werd:

Deceptakhan

05-06-2007, 11:32 AM

Go do a ride along. Not really, most are just normal people trying to make a difference.

The agenda pushers are the ones that are assholes.

How would one schedule a ride along?

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 11:42 AM

Cops are such assholes.

That's the problem... most of them really aren't...

chrisbarnett01

05-06-2007, 11:50 AM

I just found these by searching for "colorado ride along" with the variables "police", "patrol" and "sheriff".

Most jurisdictions have a web site, so if you know where you want to go I suggest searching for that specific jurisdiction. You can usually do 1 every 6 months. They will run a background check on you, so don't even try if you're a felon. I have a few misdemeanors from when I was a teen, and a ton of traffic tickets and they still let me go, In the box for what your reason for requesting a ride along is, I put that I was considering a job as a police officer.

I later found out that most ride alongs are news reporters, and people who hate police and want to catch them doing something bad. Self proclaimed watch groups and the like.

Aurora:
http://www.auroragov.org/AuroraGov/Departments/Police/Career_Information/021406?ssSourceNodeId=719&ssSourceSiteId=621

Boulder:
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/pdf/Ride-alongForm.pdf

Colorado Springs:
http://www.springsgov.com/Page.asp?NavID=2691

Fort Collins:
http://fcgov.com/police/ride-along.php

Golden:
http://ci.golden.co.us/Page.asp?NavID=104

Greeley:
http://www.greeleygov.com/cog/PageX.asp?fkOrgId=12&PageURL=RideAlong

Jefferson County:
http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/sheriff/sheriff_T62_R50.htm

Longmont:
http://www.ci.longmont.co.us/police/community/ride.htm

State Patrol:
http://www.csp.state.co.us/faq_detail.cfm?FAQ_ID=109

Weld County:
http://www.weldsheriff.com/ridealong.html

Westminster:
http://www.ci.westminster.co.us/articles/RideAlong.pdf

chrisbarnett01

05-06-2007, 11:52 AM

Oh and BTW, my ride along was a blast. I will definitely do it again.

It also gave me a new respect for how composed and quiet the COPS camera crews are. Lights, sirens and 100mph in a 40 from the passenger seat is crazy.

B20civic

05-06-2007, 03:47 PM

i see thousands of drivers on a daily business that need tickets.

where the fuck are the cops?

Deceptakhan

05-06-2007, 04:26 PM

Thank you Mr. Barnett. PLease keep in mind that my opinions arel pe based on personal experiences from dealings with the po-po. And Imight add that, if I was breaking the law then yes I understand that I will not be treate3d as a good citizen. Of course not.

But I will be doing a ride along, and hopefully one good cop will dispel they're well-earned reputation of being notoriously dick-headed pompous assholes who look down their noses and act like they are better.

I understand that they have a job to do. But they can show respect and care until the person they are dealing with gives them a reason not to.

Brandon

05-06-2007, 04:46 PM

Doing 5 over the posted speed limit on a highway or large city street is one thing; running red lights and speeding through school zones is another.

You're wrong, they are not different, they're both breaking the law. Who decides where the line is, what's reasonable for a ticket and what's not?

If cops were really about protecting and serving our citizens through traffic enforcement, then there should be cop posted at every intersection and every stretch of school zone streets. Cops need to be visible, and serve as a reminder that if you do something stupid, you will be penalized. But hiding behind a fucking tree with a radar gun? Give me a break.

Who's going to pay for a cop at every intersection and every stretch of school zones? They're not volunteers.
Cops hiding behind fucking trees keep me from speeding. I'd rather spend my money on other things besides speeding tickets and insurance. Speeding in the city is nearly pointless. The benefits of speeding are heavily outweighed by the chance of a ticket, for me anyways. If you want to be the one that goes flying by me at mach 1 and end up right in front of me at the next red light, be my guest. ;)

B20civic

05-06-2007, 04:50 PM

take a ride in my truck one day, and you will see how bad people drive

Weston

05-06-2007, 04:52 PM

Who decides where the line is, what's reasonable for a ticket and what's not?

That's exactly why police officers normally have the power of discretion.

forum

05-06-2007, 05:23 PM

take a ride in my truck one day, and you will see how bad people drive

:werd: and I don't drive nearly as much as you do, and my truck is quite a bit smaller. And yet its still amazing how retarded people are.

Aracheon

05-06-2007, 06:05 PM

i see thousands of drivers on a daily business that need tickets.

where the fuck are the cops?

:werd:

But 95% of the retarded drivers I encounter everyday on my 30+ mile commute to work are not speeders. They're ALWAYS people who are either: talking on their fucking cell phone, driving slow in the left lane, not staying IN their lane on I-25, changing lanes without signaling, or trying to come into the lane you're in.

smithz

05-06-2007, 06:23 PM

:werd:

But 95% of the retarded drivers I encounter everyday on my 30+ mile commute to work are not speeders. They're ALWAYS people who are either: talking on their fucking cell phone, driving slow in the left lane, not staying IN their lane on I-25, changing lanes without signaling, or trying to come into the lane you're in.

The funny thing is the people doing that shit would say what they were doing wasn't really breaking a serious law and that the cops should pull you over for speeding.

"Everyone in front of you is an idiot, everyone behind you is an asshole." - George Carlin

It's the relativity of you and your viewpoints versus someone else's. Don't get me wrong, the thing that pisses me off faster than anything are douchbags parking in the fast lane. But from their persepective I'm just some asshole trying to drive too damn fast.

All in all we are all breaking the law in some way. Some times you get nailed for it, some times you don't. And yes tickets are more of an inconvenience and a revenue generator. If they REALLY wanted to deter you, the penalty would be losing a finger. With that at risk, I know I would never chance it. Ever.

B20civic

05-06-2007, 07:13 PM

:werd:

But 95% of the retarded drivers I encounter everyday on my 30+ mile commute to work are not speeders. They're ALWAYS people who are either: talking on their fucking cell phone, driving slow in the left lane, not staying IN their lane on I-25, changing lanes without signaling, or trying to come into the lane you're in.exactly.

i run about 700 miles a day, and see the following:

-following too closely (wether its to another car, or on my trailers back bumper)
-cutting people off
-not passing in the left lane
-running slow in the center lane (keep right, pass left applies here too)
-no signals. it happens so much. fucking people are lazy.
-speeding. i'll admit, i sometimes cruise slightly over. i was doing 72 in a 70 today, and i was being passed like i'm standing still
-people dialing their phones
-people talking on their phones
-people eating
-people putting make up on
-cutting across 4 lanes to exit at last minute

and the list goes on and on and on

seriously, whats so hard about using a signal? i ALWAYS use mine

if they did driver road test re-evaluations, 75% of the popuation would probably fail.

crxrocks

05-06-2007, 07:36 PM

This is exactly the conflict of interest that happens when the government is allowed to levy fines as punishment for crimes. Does the government really have any true interest in curbing crime? If it does, then it cripples its revenue stream.

V8SpankR

05-07-2007, 06:05 AM

-not passing in the left lane
-running slow in the center lane (keep right, pass left applies here too)
-people dialing their phones
-people talking on their phones
-people eating
-people putting make up on

Unfortunatly non of these are enforcable...........yet.

Alot of my interactions with the police ended when I got rid of my Eclipse and switched to a 4Runner. I had 15 speeding tickets from '94-'01 and no other traffic violations.
With my Runner I've had one speeding ticket and my insurance rates have really calmed down.

The bottom line is if you 100% don't want a ticket then follow the laws 100%,if you don't then accept that you are taking a chance and don't fault the police when they rightfully ticket you.

Conrad

05-07-2007, 07:18 AM

Unfortunatly non of these are enforcable...........yet.

Alot of my interactions with the police ended when I got rid of my Eclipse and switched to a 4Runner. I had 15 speeding tickets from '94-'01 and no other traffic violations.
With my Runner I've had one speeding ticket and my insurance rates have really calmed down.

The bottom line is if you 100% don't want a ticket then follow the laws 100%,if you don't then accept that you are taking a chance and don't fault the police when they rightfully ticket you.

:werd:

I owned my SI for 5 months or so and was pulled over about 6 times... Traded it in got the jeep and have been pulled over once for no plate(front or back, had temp tag in window but it was too tinted to see.)

I think its almost blasphemy to pull over a jeep in colorado...

Nate

05-07-2007, 08:48 AM

exactly.

i run about 700 miles a day, and see the following:

-people putting make up on

On a similar note, how come you never post pictures of flashers?

Aracheon

05-07-2007, 08:50 AM

He's too busy putting his makeup on. :D

smithz

05-07-2007, 08:57 PM

seriously, whats so hard about using a signal? i ALWAYS use mine
MOTHERFUCKINGWERD

I use it in the middle of no-fucking-where with no one around. Habit.

Street_Kings

05-07-2007, 09:11 PM

You're wrong, they are not different, they're both breaking the law. Who decides where the line is, what's reasonable for a ticket and what's not?

They are both breaking the law. However, going 5 over is much much MUCH less dangerous than doing 15 over in a school zone. If we had a bajillion cops i'm sure they would enforce every law. However, the way it stands now they have to use their discretion to handle the more important things than a guy going 5 over on the highway.

exactly.

i run about 700 miles a day, and see the following:

-following too closely (wether its to another car, or on my trailers back bumper)

you know, I saw this on the highway today and the first thing that popped into my mind was "that guy must have a fucking death wish." I don't understand what would motivate a person to tailgate a semi, when A) directly behind the trailer is a massive blind spot and B) if you hit the back of a trailer, you may as well be hitting a fucking brick wall because it's not going to budge and absorb any type of impact.

guessinthe2000

05-07-2007, 09:11 PM

Fuk them!

Rhythm Kid

05-08-2007, 02:14 PM

You know they could call it whatever they want but they have always had it. Considering how they are out in force at the end of every month shows they are trying to get something. . . .

Brandon

05-08-2007, 05:33 PM

:werd:

I owned my SI for 5 months or so and was pulled over about 6 times... Traded it in got the jeep and have been pulled over once for no plate(front or back, had temp tag in window but it was too tinted to see.)

I think its almost blasphemy to pull over a jeep in colorado...

lol same thing here. Been pulled over once in the last ~ 3 years for no rear plate (took the bumper off to build new brackets).

05-11-2007, 11:59 AM

...and yesterday on Federal I was already bitten by this. $130 fine, 2 points. Fucking oinker didn't even want proof of registration, didn't run my license, NOTHING. He wrote the ticket, and I was done within 5 minutes.

:mad: Denver Police :fu:

smithz

05-11-2007, 05:31 PM

And you were doing what?

Aracheon

05-12-2007, 12:19 AM

I got $1 that says he was speeding. :D

05-12-2007, 12:56 AM

You just won a buck... to yourself.

forum

05-12-2007, 06:48 AM

What do you know, I drive at least 150 miles a day, and I still haven't had a problem with this. And those motorcycle cops LOVE Santa Fe

smithz

05-12-2007, 07:38 AM

Damn cops writing tickets to people breaking the law and expecting to away with it. Damn them all!

JL LGT

05-13-2007, 04:20 AM

"Everyone in front of you is an idiot, everyone behind you is an asshole." - George Carlin
Holy motherF*'n :spit:

I done :rofl: 'd right outta my chair!

----------

Many good points here and the quota thing's nothing new to me (unfortunately). In Fountain... it's a "Performance Standard" or something to that effect. Don't mind the quota cause I'm more than confident that there are PLENTY of people out there doing foolish things on the roads to provide the numbers the bean counters are looking for. I'm one of em from time to time and won't argue when I'm caught.

It does however piss me off when one particular cop here in Fountain doesn't abide by the same law he so viscously (<~stress that word) enforces! I was pulled over by him for speeding (guilty as hell... no argument) just to catch him on multiple occassions speeding in his white Mustang. I'm not the only one who's seen him do this either.... but what can you do?

This same cop has pulled me over (and friends) and written tickets for stuff that could have just been verbal notifications (discretion?). For instance: tail light out (ticket given).

A friend got a ticket on the way to AutoZone because his headlight was out. He was on his way to get a replacement.