FMU=bad??

[stu]

http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html

So I just read this a while ago and decided that building a turbo kit would be a fun and cheap learning experience and it didn't sound all that hard. But I have also heard things like

"FMU's are the devil."
and
"I would rather have my eyes pecked out by a one-legged rabid bird than use an FMU on my custom built turbo kit."
and
" I would put my first born's arm in the garbage disposal before I would run an FMU."

Actually I haven't heard any of these, but you get my point. What do you use in place of an FMU. Are there any other things that I might want to know about this site? Mounting problems, bold-faced-lies, etc?

And the most commonly asked questions about turbo motors.
1) How much boost can I run on a stock block?
2) What kind of reasonable horsepower is achieveable with a stock block?
3) What kind of turbo should I consider? (I was thinking T3 pt T3/T4)

Also, could someone maybe break down different stages of engine buiding for me. Things like "You need this to boost this, and that will cost you this, and you can get it done here."

I am counting on all of my new HAI friends to help me do this, as I've always wanted to beat GT Mustangs and LS1 Camaros. (I know there is a big difference).

So please be patien with me. But in the mean time you don't have to worry because I don't even have a job right now!!! Hence why I can write really long posts at 2:41 in the morning every night.

[stu]

Now, my motor has over 152,000 miles on it and it burns about 1 quart of oil every 1,000 miles or so, but no leaks. I am sure that I will want to rebuild it before the hairdryer. What I am curious about is if I can even boost as much as 10psi daily and reliably on the stock block? If not then what would I need to boost say 15-20PSI (just to be super safe). I obviously wouldn't boost this much to start but I know that once I go turbo, there is going to be no turning back. Oh, yeah, as stated before, how much, what brands, and where can I get this done? TIA.

[Dallas J]

You have to run some sort of FPR that raises the fuel pressure 1:1...Meaning for 1 pound of boost you get 1 extra lb of fuel pressure. You need that cause the extra air pressure in the combustion chamber pushes on the fuel and it needs to be raised to compensate. If you want to do it right then you will need to of course rebuild with some lower compression pistons and rods, preferably forged. Get a Hondata or some sort of fuel control so you dont have to run like a 8:1 FP ratio. Larger injectors, size depending on the amount of boost your gonna push. A good fuel pump. Then the turbo set up.
Thats what you'll need to do it right. Its expensive, but the cost of turboing a non-factory turbo car. Even with my car to do it up nice i need Injectors, DSMLink, FPR, and a fuel pump. But i hope you do it anyways, its a fun project and turbos are a blast.
-Dallas J

[stu]

I understand why I need the extra fuel I just didn't understand what I could besides an FMU, I would assume I could get an aftermarket FPR and use a stand alone like Hondata right.

[Dallas J]

One of the best FMUs that ive seen is the Vortec S-FMU. I had the old style Cartech(the one with a rough cast look) on my turbo Neon and it was absolute crap.
Id say that your best bet is to get the vortec and get a hondata 2b if you dont have enough money for the 4b. Supposedly it makes the car run like it was a boosted car from the factory. If you get the 2b then it would be a good idea to make friends with someone who has a 4b cause i think you can use there shit to tune your 2b.
-Dallas J

[john]

DSMlink is a very nice piece of hardware, but not needed. Just some fuel control is sufficient. IMHO again. But, it all depends on what your goals are, I guess...


Originally posted by Dallas J

Thats what you'll need to do it right. Its expensive, but the cost of turboing a non-factory turbo car. Even with my car to do it up nice i need Injectors, DSMLink, FPR, and a fuel pump. But i hope you do it anyways, its a fun project and turbos are a blast.
-Dallas J

[john]

Yeah - what he said. :)


Originally posted by Dallas J
You have to run some sort of FPR that raises the fuel pressure 1:1...Meaning for 1 pound of boost you get 1 extra lb of fuel pressure. You need that cause the extra air pressure in

[Dallas J]

I would just go with an AFC, but then if you think about the all the different piggy backs you would have to buy to do all the things the DSMLink does, and still not have as good of control then its a pretty good deal. You would need an AFC, Some sort of Logger(which will be a slower rate than the DSMLink) Timing control, Stutter Box. Also hopefully hal will give us some of his little custom programs for it.
-Dallas J

[stu]

Are FMU's adjustable? Like the vortech one for example.

[stu]

Hey uh... don't worry about helping me out on the turbo kit as my car is now totaled. Within walking distance of my house too.
I will start a new thread in the off-topic forum about it.

[john]

ouch. :(

[Mark_H]

First off, turbo kits are not cheap by any means. Yes, there are many people running junkyard turbo setups etc. that ended up not costing much. But all the little things add up quickly, oil lines, FMU's, check valves, downtime etc.
Two main fuel setup options:
1. 12:1 FMU, stock injectors, inline pump, Missing link CHeck valve
2. Intank pump, bigger injectors, and a stand alone such at AEM EMS, Hondata, DFI etc.

I'm running the good old FMU and stock injectors right now on my Type R and it runs great, you just canlt get boost happy or you'll blow your motor.
HTH
M
BTW, without having installed MANY turbo kits in the past there is no way I would have been able to put together and install a custom kit myself. Without the supervision of a knowledgeable turbo "guy" I would not attempt to put together or install a cusotm kit. Save some money and get a Drag kit or a Greddy kit.

[john]

Why would someone use a 12:1 fuel pressure riser? How can a guy tune that? Wouldn't a good adjustable rising fuel pressure regulator be 'the right answer'?

[Dallas J]

the only adjustable rising rate regulator that ive used is the old Cartech one. I was a horrable peice of crap. The idle would be jumpy by 10psi, and it wouldnt always rise to the exact pressure. With a set rising rate it would be more acurate when tuning cause you should be going back to the same fuel pressure. BTW i would never have a set up that went over 75psi/fuel. Id rather get bigger injectors then risk running that much pressure. But on the other hand people have been doing it for years...

[newt2]

Why would someone use a 12:1 fuel pressure riser? How can a guy tune that? Wouldn't a good adjustable rising fuel pressure regulator be 'the right answer'?

You're way is better but you have to replace injectors and should run a standalone as well. The only way to get enoughh fuel on stock injectors is to have a big jump in fuel pressure under boost. Most turbo hondas use a 12:1 FMU because it's cheap.

[Mark_H]

Originally posted by newt2


You're way is better but you have to replace injectors and should run a standalone as well. The only way to get enoughh fuel on stock injectors is to have a big jump in fuel pressure under boost. Most turbo hondas use a 12:1 FMU because it's cheap.

Agreed. Stock injectors bascially need ALOT of fuel pressure to be sufficient. And the Vortech FMU's are abundant, dependable, and affordable.
HTH
M