Fucking stumped.

[M@]

I'm going nuts, here. I've been trying to figure out what in the hell is going on with my car. OBD2 b-series motor. It idles like dog shit, and if I give it any throttle, it either dies, or bogs and rev's won't raise. It's very hard to get it to start, as well. I'm throwing codes 06 (Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT Sensor).. is this the fan switch?), 10 (Intake Air Temperature (IAT sensor).. not sure aboout this one either), and 54 (CKF - crank fluctuation sensor).

Stock Si injectors, stock Si fuel pump, stock Si ECU.

Here's the rest of the scoop. I had an MSD 6AL installed, and I wired it up wrong, so I decided screw it, and just removed it. I then wired my dizzy back up to what I thought was stock. The two wires inside of the dizzy that screw down, if I'm correct, connect to the two closest male connectors on the dizzy. Here's the weird part. I originally had the black/yellow wire connected to the positive part that screws down, took it apart, then switched the two so that the black/yellow was negative.

It ran the same either way.

I tried moving my dizzy completely advanced, in the middle, and completely retarded. Nothing helped, other than advancing it helped it idle a little bit better. It smells like it's running insanely fucking rich, too.

Any ideas? I've been trying to figure this out for a while now, and I'm absolutely stumped. :confused:

[daBoosted93]

im sure that you dont want to disclose too much info about the motor, but im guessing vtec motor, or at least head, if you dont want to post anything, you can pm me and maybe we can talk over some things.

[J.Dub]

Damn man, sounds confusing. Umm I don't know what it could be.

[M@]

PM'd

[Minotaur]

Bad ground to ECU if you're throwing that many codes. a little lead or something, maybe.

Def. is acting like a CTS, will get to where the only way you can start the car is WOT to get enough air into it.

[prelude23]

I had a similar problem... throwing codes like crazy, rough idle, and hard to start and my dizzy was getting hot as F***. It ended up being a broken ground wire in the engine harness that was coming from the coil. Hope it helps man.

[Aracheon]

+1 for the electrical problem consensus.

Just be thankful you have a Honda... MUCH simpler electrical system in your car. My AllTrac's engine harness alone has more wiring in it than your entire Civic. :D

[Deceptakhan]

Hope you get it worked out man! We need to cruise soon. And bring Terry.

[J.Dub]

check yo grounds fooo!

[M@]

The only ground (so far) that I've found to not be completely "stock" is the one that is actually surrounding the crank position sensor (aka Crank Fluctation Sensor). It's basically an insulation around the actual wire to block out interferance, apparently. Anyways, I'm planning on completely pulling my harness tomorrow and digging deep into that fucker.

Thanks for the advice, thus far. Keep 'um comin, please. :)

[J.Dub]

check fuses too. I dont know what would cause that to happen i dont know it might be a fuse. Did you check those?

[mrsatisfiher]

I had the same problem before turns out it was a bad injectors

[J.Dub]

those too.

[J.Dub]

OHhhhhh Are you getting a good strong spark??

[M@]

I've checked fuses, I'm getting plenty of spark, plenty of fuel. It's obviously just not a consistant/stable spark.

[J.Dub]

hmmm... It has to be a ground or some bad wiring what kind of harness?

[M@]

You gonna' fix my problem for me? :D

[J.Dub]

Dude imma pro. Pm me i might be able to get you something

[M@]

...like a BJ??? :)

[J.Dub]

NO haha

[Dave_L]

I had a similar problem when I replaced the motor in my teggy. It would idle (kinda low and rough) and when I tried to drive it, it'd go to about 2k rpm's and then die. It was like the fuel got shut off. I ended up having 2 sensors switched. It was the TPS and MAP sensor. They are right next to each other and are interchangable. Might want to check that.

[marcrx5]

Were there any codes before you started messing with the dizzy or wiring? The CTS can cause a lot of weird problems, including throwing other codes and running incredibly rich. The other codes it threw don't seem to match up to what I've seen on other cars (I've seen random cylinder misfires, rich O2 most commonly, but I've also seen some weird ones like CAS), but a bad CTS might be the culprit. Then again, it could be in the wiring too.

[Toyz51]

All and all your issue lies in the fact that your ecu probably is seeing that it is -30 degrees or so and sending a ton of fuel for the cold start because of what it sees from your sensors. Check your distribution to the Green/Black wire, It is one of the plugs below the intake manifold. Also double check the ground near your theremostat. For the previous mention of having the coil wires mixed and it still ran, that is true, but there can be startup/drivablility issues with them backwards, but not relivent to your problem.

[M@]

Which plug is the plug with the green/black wires? I thought that was the knock sensor..

[nicklk]

The knock sensor is a single wire, usually brown

[nicklk]

Try these:

www.nicklk.com/hai/wiring

[M@]

Hmmm.. time to recheck my plugs tonight.

[Punting_midgets]

CHeck your ground near your thermostat and make sure it is making a good connection and that the bolt is tight. I had a very similar probler with a GSR motor in the past and it was this ground connection that was causing the problem.

[M@]

Cool, I know which one you're talking about. I know I tightened that one down, but you never know I guess. I'll check that as well. Thanks.

[Nick_S]

Damn im having this same problem in my crx right now. Let me know when you figure everything out, and what the problem is.

[Punting_midgets]

Cool, I know which one you're talking about. I know I tightened that one down, but you never know I guess. I'll check that as well. Thanks.


The problem with mine was that it was making a bad connection (corrosion on the wires) but a loose connection will cause a similar problem.

[Minotaur]

Against the CTS arguments;

When a CTS goes bad, it provides the ECU with feedback in the form of high resistance, which tells the engine that it's cold. So if your CTS is bad, it should start up and run alright (especially when it's this cold) till it's hot. Then it will flood the crap out of itself.

[marcrx5]

Against the CTS arguments;

When a CTS goes bad, it provides the ECU with feedback in the form of high resistance, which tells the engine that it's cold. So if your CTS is bad, it should start up and run alright (especially when it's this cold) till it's hot. Then it will flood the crap out of itself.

Yes and no. The ECU will know it's cold, but not how cold. If the CTS has a short, it will have infinite resistance. The ECU doesn't know what to make of that, so it pulls the coldest programmed value (highest resistance value) from it's tables, which is probably more like -50F (I don't remember for sure, but it's well below 0F). There is a big difference between the amount of fuel needed to start an engine at 50F, and -50F.

[M@]

That makes perfect sense to me.

[M@]

I know that my two wire plug with a green and a black wire isn't plugged into anything, however my Haynes shows that the IACV should be either yellow/black and black/blue, or orange and black/blue. :confused:

[marcrx5]

FSM > Haynes

[M@]

Link Or Ban

[Toyz51]

The green/black I was talking about is the distribution plug that is usually near the throttle body, on an obd2, there is a grey and blue plug that look like a termination plug, but actually distributes the wires. It is like the one near the clutch master cylinder on a obd1 car.

[M@]

So, where does that plug actually plug into?

[nicklk]

Link Or Ban

PDF file of Helms-right click save as

Helms is the manual Honda uses at their shops (its a $60 manual)

http://downloads.hondatech.info/Auto/Manuals/Civic/Ab0VE.Honda%20Civic%20EJ6%2C%20EJ7%2C%20EJ8%20%289 6-00%29%20Service%20Manual.zip

[M@]

I already have that exact manual, which is the one I was basing my above comment about regarding the wiring color.

[kevino002]

okay where the hell is this CTS sensor located??

[M@]

I'm assuming he's talking about the Engine Coolant Temp sensor (CTS = Coolant Temp Sensor?). Which, if that's the case, is on the side of the head to the right of the thermo. housing on a VTEC head anyways.

[M@]

Hhahahahahah! Found the problem. Just like I was afraid of, it was a stupid little thing that I overlooked. I had the Coolant Temp. Sensor and the TDC sensor (I think that's which one it is) plugs mixed up. I'm gonna' take it for a spin here in a few. Woot.

[ryanman]

cool

[honda1982]

nice M@.

[J.Dub]

so you going to test and tune then???????

[Minotaur]

word.. way to go. Do I get a cookie for guessing it first?


Yes and no. The ECU will know it's cold, but not how cold. If the CTS has a short, it will have infinite resistance. The ECU doesn't know what to make of that, so it pulls the coldest programmed value (highest resistance value) from it's tables, which is probably more like -50F (I don't remember for sure, but it's well below 0F). There is a big difference between the amount of fuel needed to start an engine at 50F, and -50F.

are you really disagreeing with me on this one? You're just being more specific than I was. congrats.. lol

[M@]

We'll see... I still have some stuff to do before it's race ready.

[J.Dub]

Good thing i helped you last night ehh!!!!

[M@]

Not so much... you didn't really help. lol

[J.Dub]

I was kidding haha. Actually being scarcastic. haha

[J.Dub]

I don't know anything about honda's remeber im just a 17 year old kid. ;)

[M@]

I thought you were 18, but ok.

[J.Dub]

You thought i was 18??

[M@]

Quiet.

[J.Dub]

Haha I look like i'm 12 hahaha.

[ryanman]

STFU

[marcrx5]

are you really disagreeing with me on this one? You're just being more specific than I was. congrats.. lol

Just as I said, yes and no. I was more specific, but you said the engine would start up and run fine cold, and I said there is a big difference between the amount of fuel needed at -50F and 50F, which was implying that it wouldn't run very well, if at all, if that was the problem.