Finally, more E85 stations coming to Colorado

[Weston-work]

We only have 10 E85 stations now, mostly in rural areas, but it looks we are getting 40 more this year...

http://www.9news.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=64867

[Nick_S]

That is sick as hell.

[M@]

Wicked. :)

[STIBungy]

Unfortunately, the current prices of E85 are about the same as 85 octane. Unless regular gasoline makes a significant jump in price this summer, I dont see many people switching over to it.

[doogie06]

Pump Gas 4 LYFE!

[Brian]

Great, now i'm going to have to pay 20 dollars for a steak instead of 12. Just read an article saying that the profits per barrel of E85 have fallen to almost nothing meaning the government is stepping into to pay the producers to produce (our tax dollars). Further, the U.S corn production can't keep up so the cost of food grain for cattle has skyrocketed meaning everything from corn and cereal to steak will jump up in the coming months.

E85 is a VERY short term solution to a big problem. Hopefully they start producing hydrogen vehicles soon as that seems to be the only viable solution right now.

[daBoosted93]

there is an e85 station by my house, but i still havent gotten any cause i dont have a tune for it yet. but thats in the near future when i get my dc teg running. you can make soo much more power on e85!

[Weston-work]

Unfortunately, the current prices of E85 are about the same as 85 octane. Unless regular gasoline makes a significant jump in price this summer, I dont see many people switching over to it.

Yeah, it's a hard sell to the general public since they get around 25% less MPG with it. But for the rest of us, it's dirt cheap, clean-burning, 104 octane fuel.

[daBoosted93]

Hopefully they start producing hydrogen vehicles soon as that seems to be the only viable solution right now.


well i think we are still way away from that. they still havent found a way to efficiently produce hydrogen, then it would cost so much money to get hydrogen filling stations into convenient locations. i think that a fuel cell of hydrogen can only last like 200 miles.

[Brian]

Hydrogen is easy to produce using electrolysis. All you need on the car is an alternator, a battery, and some water to produce hydrogen (this is highly simplified of course). My son and I built hydrogen powered rockets last summer using the same technique. There is also a company coming out with a motorcycle this year that runs on a hydrogen fuel cell. You can take the cell off of the motorcycle and use it to power a house.

[2fastNturn]

Meh, I'd have to spend a shit load of money to get my fuel system to flow 30% more fuel. A1000, 1600cc injectors, new lines, new FPR.

Then on top of that I'd be filling up every 180 miles or so.

[ComputerJLT]

Hydrogen is easy to produce using electrolysis. All you need on the car is an alternator, a battery, and some water to produce hydrogen (this is highly simplified of course). My son and I built hydrogen powered rockets last summer using the same technique. There is also a company coming out with a motorcycle this year that runs on a hydrogen fuel cell. You can take the cell off of the motorcycle and use it to power a house.

yea its easy to produce but you use MORE energy to split atoms w/ electrolysis than you GET when you recombine them to make electricity in a fuel cell....

Thats kind of pointeless when you consider where most of the polution in the world comes from, thats power plants...

It's just not feasable.... Unless you use nuclear, wind, solar/thermal or some sort of natural power then there is no point in splitting water.

[ComputerJLT]

Meh, I'd have to spend a shit load of money to get my fuel system to flow 30% more fuel. A1000, 1600cc injectors, new lines, new FPR.

Then on top of that I'd be filling up every 180 miles or so.

tuned right you wont loose that much economy on E85. If you run the mix stoich you'll be throwing fuel away.

Just like with gasoline you can lean it out a lot during cruise/part throttle and gain a lot of economy. And since alcohol can run a much wider range of AFRs and still be safe you can lean it out to an 18:1 gasoline AFR equivilent. In the end you will loose some mpg but not enough to hurt you; maybe 5-10%, not 25.

[Weston]

yea its easy to produce but you use MORE energy to split atoms w/ electrolysis than you GET when you recombine them to make electricity in a fuel cell....

Thats kind of pointeless when you consider where most of the polution in the world comes from, thats power plants...

It's just not feasable.... Unless you use nuclear, wind, solar/thermal or some sort of natural power then there is no point in splitting water.

It's splitting molecules, not atoms. There are also much more efficient ways to do it than simple electrolysis (which is 200+ year old technology), but yeah, it requires more energy to do it than you get from the fuel it produces. Based on the laws of thermodynamics, that will always be true because you're first doing "H2O + energy -> 2H + O" and then "2H + O -> H2O + energy"... the energy output will always be less than the energy input. However, the energy input can come from free or waste sources, including heat. Some people are using almost-free electricity from the alternator, sometimes combined with excess engine heat, to do produce Hydrogen gas on demand and inject it into the engine. It obviously can't run the engine on it's own, but it can boost fuel economy since you're basically turning waste into more fuel. It's a little tricky to get the mixture right though, especially since it confuses O2 sensors, so you need tunable fuel injection.

[boostedEG]

for the rest of us, it's dirt cheap, clean-burning, 104 octane fuel.

coukln't have said it better myself.

[2fastNturn]

tuned right you wont loose that much economy on E85. If you run the mix stoich you'll be throwing fuel away.

Just like with gasoline you can lean it out a lot during cruise/part throttle and gain a lot of economy. And since alcohol can run a much wider range of AFRs and still be safe you can lean it out to an 18:1 gasoline AFR equivilent. In the end you will loose some mpg but not enough to hurt you; maybe 5-10%, not 25.

I can lean gas out for fuel economy as well, which still makes e85 still less economical.

The only advantage to e85 is the octane and the price compared to similar octane gasoline. That and its a domestic produced fuel.

Make sure your fuel system is up to snuff, because I burned up a sparkplug and valve running it. Pretty sure my Walbro 255 wasnt keeping up. That was with 1100 cc injectors at 68% duty cycle if I remember correctly.

[servion]

tuned right you wont loose that much economy on E85. If you run the mix stoich you'll be throwing fuel away.

Just like with gasoline you can lean it out a lot during cruise/part throttle and gain a lot of economy. And since alcohol can run a much wider range of AFRs and still be safe you can lean it out to an 18:1 gasoline AFR equivilent. In the end you will loose some mpg but not enough to hurt you; maybe 5-10%, not 25.

I have tuned a bunch of e85 cars on a load bearing dyno... I have done as lean as 1.1 lambda in light throttle cruise (~16:1 "gasoline equivalent") with the ignition timing tuned for peark torque in all feasible cells, and still the customers report ~20 to 25% worse MPG. Its not a good idea to tune a car to a "gas equivalent" 18:1.

I was getting ~20MPG on e85 in my civic last year which included bandimere passes.

1EightT: Since you're reading this, please read my PM's and upgrade me to premium membership :)

[royalworks]

I stuck e85 in my civic wagon and I think that might be why it blew up. I didn't do anything but fill up and drive it. you think thats why it blew up?

[ComputerJLT]

I stuck e85 in my civic wagon and I think that might be why it blew up. I didn't do anything but fill up and drive it. you think thats why it blew up?

It couldn't have helped. You do need to retune for E85 over gas

[tman6919]

ok first of all hydrogen electrolysis is a "technology" that has been around for a long time(i think 180's) It has a very shitty efficiency rating and inst used in any current large scale hydrogen production. i played with it for an elementary school science project, as far as i know there is no intention on using electrolysis to solve our energy crisis.

now back to e85, i used that stuff with my DSM and just loved it. yes on paper you need more fuel to support the same HP levels(about 30% more) but when you do some real world calculations, on a properly tuned engine the losses are minimal, especially when you factor in forced induction and high CR NA's

My talon averaged 25mpg on gasohol and 24mpg on e85(lifetime average ~65/35 city hiway), only difference was i had to use premium fuel and it still had some knock, e85=no knock and crazy timing

I net down more power on e85, boost spooled a lot quicker and the exhaust tone got a lil deeper

For me e85 isnt an economical alternative, if i wanted gas milage i would be driving a pirus,

bottom line is for me anyway e85 is usually 30-100 cents cheaper than premium and this fuel loves boost with minimal looss in mpg

expect e85 price to go down because of the completion, the few stations around here price gauge because there is none

shit i cant wait till we get more stations, my civic will be a happy drunk

check out this site if you want more info
http://e85forum.com/forum-1.html