self defense?

[97CivicNick]

just wonderin.. Not too familiar with self defense laws..

but what constitutes self defense? say, if you were getting jumped and you had a knife and stabbed or had a gun and shot the person.. I know someone here must be familiar with these laws, anyone?


and not talking like a one on one fair fight, talking about someone gettin the shit beat out of them by multiple people.. witnessed some shit like this and it got me wonderin..

[97CivicNick]

uhh anyone..?

I guess Ill start it off with, while It seems wrong to escalate the situation by bringing a weapon into it, at the same time it also doesnt seem right to not be able to do shit but take a beating..

someone chime in lol this is driving me crazy..

[M@]

I say take the beating, then get twice as many people together and return the favor to that group. Or maybe have a little war like on Anchorman.

[Dave_L]

My understanding is that you are allowed to do whatever it takes until that person is not a threat. You cant shoot someone in the back bc that usually means the person was leaving and you were no longer in harms way. However, if you were being jumped, you would be able to shoot someone to save your life. Its also my understanding that you normally want to shoot to kill. Someone else might want to confirm that though.

If I was getting jumped and had a weapon, you bet your ass I'd use it.

[Kwando]

if you ever had to shoot or stab anyone in self defense, the cell phone can be your weapon... call 911, make the complaint that you are being threatened... 911 calls are always recorded...

if there are witnesses make sure they stay... most important make it clear you are the victim and he/they are the assailant... and that shooting was the last line of defense...

[crxrocks]

Its also my understanding that you normally want to shoot to kill. Someone else might want to confirm that though.


Always shoot at the largest area of body mass - the torso.

[talice]

I say take the beating, then get twice as many people together and return the favor to that group. Or maybe have a little war like on Anchorman.

:rofl: Anchorman for the win.

[97CivicNick]

Well it would most likely go "Anchorman Style" with the twice as large group.. But like I said.. seeing this the other night really got me wonderin if it would be self defense if you pulled out a gun/knife/batton / any weapon and just started fuckin people up..

[Mario]

Always shoot at the largest area of body mass - the torso.

Out of curiosity.. why? :)

[Street_Kings]

Out of curiosity.. why? :)

double tap to center of mass is standard procedure.
(double tap, meaning a quick succession of two shots) to the center of mass/torso lands two shots in the largest, easiest to hit part of a target.

If you go shooting, you'll quickly realize this isn't the movies, and that off hand, diving, blindfolded, sideways shot, insta-headshot stuff is bullshit. Bullets don't stop if you miss your mark, and hitting a moving target the size of a head is hard enough, add in the stress and trembling of adrenaline rush, you WILL most likely miss unless you're an incredibly lucky motherfucker. Seriously, go to any shooting range, try to unload a clip, aiming, and trying, at 15 yards, for the head. Keep in mind, this is not under stress, you're shooting at a piece of paper, under zero stress. Laugh at yourself as you get most in the white.
There's no point in firing your weapon to stop a murderer if you miss your target trying to be captain badass and go for a headshot, missing, and killing the 9 year old on his bike 2 blocks over.

Anyway, self defense is a really kind of shitty situation. Lethal force can only be used to stop lethal force, meaning a beating ISN'T a valid reason to unholster, though i fucking would. IMO, better to be tried than carried. Now, if you really, really, really feel like these guys are going to kill you, do what you have to do to survive. If you want to flex your balls and flash a knife or a gun to scare guys off or be a badass, you will, and deserve to go to jail, IMO.

[M@]

That puts one hell of a perspective on things though. Coming from someone in the military, none the less. :thumbup:

[Terry]

just buy mace and if shit hits the fan spray until it runs out.

[Dave_L]

Street Kings has a lot of good points. I was saying "shoot to kill" bc if you do pull a gun, i've heard its better to make sure they're dead. Just wounding them can lead to lawsuits, etc. Have you heard anything like that?

It also boils down to how'd you get in the position of getting jumped? Its usually not just a random "Kick the shit out of someone".

[Ferret]

Street Kings has a lot of good points. I was saying "shoot to kill" bc if you do pull a gun, i've heard its better to make sure they're dead. Just wounding them can lead to lawsuits, etc. Have you heard anything like that?

It also boils down to how'd you get in the position of getting jumped? Its usually not just a random "Kick the shit out of someone".

I've heard of this, and I'm pretty sure that's the way to go at last resort

Pretty sure if you're just getting beat up, pulling a gun is a pretty bad choice, unless you're about to die or something (baseball bats, knives, whatever brandished). If you shot someone in a group that was just wielding fists, lol you're fucked.

[Mario]

double tap to center of mass is standard procedure.
(double tap, meaning a quick succession of two shots) to the center of mass/torso lands two shots in the largest, easiest to hit part of a target.

If you go shooting, you'll quickly realize this isn't the movies, and that off hand, diving, blindfolded, sideways shot, insta-headshot stuff is bullshit. Bullets don't stop if you miss your mark, and hitting a moving target the size of a head is hard enough, add in the stress and trembling of adrenaline rush, you WILL most likely miss unless you're an incredibly lucky motherfucker. Seriously, go to any shooting range, try to unload a clip, aiming, and trying, at 15 yards, for the head. Keep in mind, this is not under stress, you're shooting at a piece of paper, under zero stress. Laugh at yourself as you get most in the white.
There's no point in firing your weapon to stop a murderer if you miss your target trying to be captain badass and go for a headshot, missing, and killing the 9 year old on his bike 2 blocks over.

Anyway, self defense is a really kind of shitty situation. Lethal force can only be used to stop lethal force, meaning a beating ISN'T a valid reason to unholster, though i fucking would. IMO, better to be tried than carried. Now, if you really, really, really feel like these guys are going to kill you, do what you have to do to survive. If you want to flex your balls and flash a knife or a gun to scare guys off or be a badass, you will, and deserve to go to jail, IMO.

sorry for the rant, am shitfaced, and as a ccw carrier I take lethal force stuff incredibly serious.

Thanks! Makes sense. :)

[rice_killer]

i thought a double tap was two in the chest and one in the head, at least with the marines? just curious. also im a criminal justice student and as far as i know if your life is threatened you can do what you deem necessary to eliminate the threat. that doesnt mean once the guy is down you put one between his eyes or stab him a bunch more times to kill him, just to neutralize the threat and get help otherwise you will get charged with manslaughter, self defense is hard to prove in court.

[vince]

id go by loud scotts rule of thumb "Fight dirty". if im getting jumped you better believe someone is leaving with one eye or not being able to fuck right. Damn what movie is that from i want to watch it now.

[Street_Kings]

2 to the chest and one in the head is military standard i believe, but as a civilian the consequences for missing are a hell of a lot worse than on the battlefield.

What it all comes down to is if you're life is REALLY in danger, not a dude taking a swing at you or whatever, do what you have to do to survive, because even if you get 20 years in jail it's better than an eternal trip to a hole in the ground.

If you're just getting jumped, and will get your ass beat, absolutely fight dirty, people can say what they want but if i'm getting jumped i'll be the first person to mace you, put my foot in your balls, and quite possibly some crazy eye gouging.

As for the lawsuits thing, i don't remember where in the CRS it is, will have to dig up my paperwork, but it states that one cannot file a civil suit for results of a comission of a felony. Meaning if you pull a knife on me, which is felony menacing with a deadly weapon, and i rip your arm off and beat you into a coma with it, you can't sue me. If the crime they're comitting though is a misdemeanor, it's open game in civil court.

[rice_killer]

I completely agree, fight dirty as hell, its gotten me a long ways, you aren't always going to be the biggest baddest mother out there. Yeah as a civilian put two in his chest and he aint going anywhere unless he's freaking on PCP.

[Loud_Scott]

id go by loud scotts rule of thumb "Fight dirty". if im getting jumped you better believe someone is leaving with one eye or not being able to fuck right. Damn what movie is that from i want to watch it now.

...my reputation proceeds me on this thread, but :werd:

fite dirty, fite hard, and make sure you're only mo'fo that can run away

seriously tho... on self defense -- i've also heard that you better make sure you finish the job. Because if you just break a leg or break his spine he will get johnny cockran and he will take all your shit...not that all that would really fly through your mind as your getting bitch-slapped like tina turner.....

[97CivicNick]

http://www.forumspile.com/Owned/Owned-BruceLeeBalls.gif

alright well pretty sure fight dirty comes out ftw unless your lifes at stake.. makes sense..

and also in response to one of the above posts, fighting is a misdemeanor, while fighting with a weapon is a felony? huh? Not sure i followed that one right.

[95GSRB18C]

like everyone else said, self defense is hard to prove in court unless your face is beat to shit or you have a friend video taping it but who does that lol.