Drugs and alcohol

[Dave_L]

Why is it that so many people seem to look down on drugs but encourage drinking? I always hear "Drugs are so bad, etc" but those people will drink every night. What's the difference? It seems real hyprocritical. Both are mind altering in one form or another. Is it because the government says drugs are illegal but not alcohol for 21+? I've seen both things ruin people's lives. I enjoy both. There are some drugs I'll never touch just because I have an addictive personality and I know it would be bad for me. What are your opinions on this? Why is it that people classify them so differently?

[integra_drk]

probably cause drugs are illegal. If weed was legal, i dont think people would look down on it so much.

[M@]

^ yep. Beer is socially accepted, and legal. If someone's doing illegal drugs, they're breaking the law. I think drugs are stupid.

[Dave_L]

I think drugs are stupid.

But why? Do you have a certain reason why? Underage drinking is illegal but everyone seems to think that is ok.

[M@]

Maybe it's all just personal reasons which I prefer to not share, but I was brought up to never do drugs basically.

[Deceptakhan]

I have done them all. Some are relatively harmless (minus productivity), others I have seen turn good people into some shiesty ass mo fo's(meth). Everyone has there vice, some are worse than others. But I believe that if pot should be illegal, so should alcohol. And vise versa.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

I look down on drugs because some of my family members ended up retarded from crack, and my cousin was a serious pot head and he definately talks like one. Too much pot can have it's consequences as my cousin used to be a sharp thinker growing up and everything but now he's got the steotypical pot head accent and is slow to think and hard to keep a conversation with. His brother took a little too much crack and ended up with mental disabilities. I look down on drugs for those reasons, first hand knowledge of what they can lead to if really abused. Alcohol I dont see it as bad by far as you get drunk then your better. But if you drink and drive or something like that, that's different cause at that point your putting your life and others at risk and that's very irresponsible.

I dont think pot is worth having as illegal due to the sheer number of people it puts in jail, but at the same time, if people abuse it, it can melt their brains and that's a risk they are taking with it and that's their own free choice.

[M@]

Same with alky though, too much and bye-bye liver.. but you make valid points, J.

[Dave_L]

Justin, anything in excess is bad for you. Think about an alcholic. Not someone that just drinks too much for one night, but someone that drinks everyday (like a crackhead). That ruins a life just as much as drugs IMO. My sister's ex was an alcoholic and he traded the alcohol for his family.

I know from personal experience that I do a lot dumber things when I'm drinking. On drugs, I just kinda hang out and enjoy life. Like Deceptakhan said, everyone has their vices. It just amazes me how many more people automatically dont like drugs and look down on people for doing them while those same people get completely wasted and do things that they dont remember.

[ryanman]

Alcohol is a drug.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

I definately agree, too much of anything is bad. hell to much money is bad! lol But another thing I wanna clear up is I dont look down on the poeple that may do drugs I just look down on the drugs. Hell I drink merrily when I get a chance so I'm no saint. It's just my choice not to do drugs due to my experience with family members.

[HondaPower]

Drugs are bad. I smoke on holydays.

[M@]

=-;609376']I dont look down on the poeple that may do drugs I just look down on the drugs.
Very well put. I'm the same way, but just couldn't figure out how to explain it. :thumbup:

[Loud_Scott]

drugs are viewed as bad and the devil because they are "illegal" -- it's like those new pot commericials... "smoke a joint, get preggers and goto jail" - but the new DUI commercials?? oh they just have you pulled over and in the back of a polic car, they dont say "drink and kill a family of 4" -- if the gov't taxed weed, cocaine, meth, etc etc etc then they would all b fine....

[M@]

Hmmm, that's actually a pretty good point.

[chris_venturini]

i used pot once and not only did i run over a little girl at the drive thru, but i got a virgin pregnant, and shot my best friend with a gun in my dads den. bad news guys, bad news.

[stu]

Some drugs are illegal for political reasons, but most are for safety reasons. You can certainly kill yourself by drinking too much or od'ing on something, but there are some drugs that can fuck you up the first time you use them.

Alcohol ruins lives, but the percentage of people who use it responsibly greatly outweigh the percent that abuse it. Can you say that about Meth or Cocaine? That's why they are illegal and looked down on. You can drink your whole life and not risk becoming an alcoholic. You can't say the same thing for drugs like meth and crack.

[V8SpankR]

Pot makes you procrastinate more than not and anything in the fridge can all of a sudden look like the greatest food around.

No one person in history has died from marijuana use,kinda hard to OD on it but alcohol is a different story especially with college kids and binge drinking.

IMO we should have an alternative to drinking since alcohol is far more detrimental than pot can ever be.

Here's another way to look at it;movies about pot usually are fun comedies but most movies that center on alcohol are depicting bad things. Leaving Las Vegas anyone?
Pot is more socially acceptable by the masses than ever before but the conservatists still rule the majority. Look at the '70s show and such and nobody is hating on mega dope head Snoop Dogg and he even hawks cars for Dodge.

[stu]

I honestly think we should seperate "pot" from other drugs because the results are so much different.

[V8SpankR]

About 10 years ago I got high and ate 7 Ding Dongs because my GF dared me so yeah,results do vary. :)

[B20badboy]

Drugs to certin people take different side affects. Like some people can have a few drinks a day and maintain while some people can have a beer or two and act stupid.
just like Pot some people like it and some do not, perfect example my brother in law has been a pot head since he was 9 I think he was a daily user, I just got him a job with me and he had to quite smoking (he actually quit in vegas the two months he lived there) Now he drinks well he acts freakin retarted with a few beers in him. He never hurt anyone or got into trouble while smoking but it is a different story while drinking.
I have tried Pot, Alcohol, Shrooms, & extacy I really don't use any of the above except alcohol just because I don't want my kids to be around the other shit even though they will in time anyway. I also don't want to shelter them as they will find it in a worse way.

[Mario]

While I've never smoked (cigs or weed), I am an occasional drinker. Yes, I have an alcohol corner with ~10 handles of various liquors ranging from Jack Daniels to Curacao for martinis. Probably a bit young to have a nice arrangement, but you know I've always been more mature for my age. I drink responsibly, I don't drive after my first sip, and if I have homework or chores to do on a weekend than I won't drink. It's not a necessity for me and I have fun with or without.

Here's what I think: everything in moderation, no matter what it is. That's the key.

[Loud_Scott]

Some drugs are illegal for political reasons, but most are for safety reasons. You can certainly kill yourself by drinking too much or od'ing on something, but there are some drugs that can fuck you up the first time you use them.

Alcohol ruins lives, but the percentage of people who use it responsibly greatly outweigh the percent that abuse it. Can you say that about Meth or Cocaine? That's why they are illegal and looked down on. You can drink your whole life and not risk becoming an alcoholic. You can't say the same thing for drugs like meth and crack.

That entire post is pure :bs: Every time someone takes a drink they *risk* becoming an alcoholic. Just like everytime someone takes a bong hit, snorts a line, or smokes some meth they take that risk. I know someone who at 23 was more successful than any or her peers while smoking meth daily. She made 80k/year, was in management, -- yadda yadda yadda -- didn't exactly ruin her life.... oh and just in case anyone asks.. now shes making 100k/year and has a house and still in management (not like "oh yea where is she now...the gutter??")

And comparing the people that use alcohol responsible to anything else like meth or crack doesn't work. Everyone in america (sans mormons) pretty much drinks to some extent. While drug users/abusers is a growing number it will never, ever rival that of alcohol; it's just a way of life. Alcohol has always been acceptable, it took the genius (idiocy?) of modern man to create things like meth and crack....

[Nightfall]

Even if marijuana was legalized, users would still be looked down upon by all the people whom thought it shouldn't have been legalized. I think that the initial action that made people this way was *because* it is illegal but the damage has already been done, wether or not it is legalized in the future.

[Nick_S]

All i can say is i love weed and i will never quit for anything. Look at the post count hell yeah time to blaze it up 420!

[stu]

Even if marijuana was legalized, users would still be looked down upon by all the people whom thought it shouldn't have been legalized. I think that the initial action that made people this way was *because* it is illegal but the damage has already been done, wether or not it is legalized in the future.

I think that'd only take a generation or two to clear up honestly. Alcohol has been banned before, but we were quick to embrace it again.

[12seccivy]

I think that'd only take a generation or two to clear up honestly. Alcohol has been banned before, but we were quick to embrace it again.
All prohibition did was make nearly every citizen into a criminal.That's why it didn't last..The government couldn't feasibly enforce those laws.
As far as drugs go,some are pleasant to use occasionally,but the issues with drugs are more social than legal.
Most drugs have more addictive qualities than alcohol.I beg to differ though.I used pot in very moderate doses and infrequently.I havent done it in 6 or 7 years,mostly because of employment drug test.I dont miss it all that much.
I do drink somewhat frequently but not in heavy dosage.I feel that alcohol is just as addictive as most drugs,but easier to recover from.crack and all the "uppers" seem to have destructive problems to people when they use and when they quit..
I dont especially want to see pot legalized.but it would seem to make sense,since there are quite a few users in population..taxes would be a huge revenue for this.

[stu]

I'm not saying I agree with prohabition.

[12seccivy]

I'm not saying I agree with prohabition.
I know..I was making a point about what happens when you ban or prohibit something that has been tradition for so long.
I think alcohol AND drugs are bad for the body and mind,But that doesnt stop me either..:killtard:

[Weston]

I look down on both, if that makes you feel any better... I have never seen anything good come from either, but I have seen far too many people fuck up their lives (and the lives of others) because of alcohol, drugs, or both. If people want to screw themselves over, then that's thier own dumb decision to make, but don't expect me to support it, participate in it, or tolerate it when a drunk or high person does something retarded like drive a car.

I'm still not sure if I'll vote for or against the legalization of marijuana... I don't care if people do it, but I fear that it will pave the way to this country becoming even more lazy, fat, and irresponsible. I'd also be worried that companies would no longer be able to discriminate against stoners, so I'd get stuck working with incompitent morons no matter where I go. I have personally seen what pot has done to people who used to be very intelligent... they really don't have much to contribute to society now.

[Loud_Scott]

I'd also be worried that companies would no longer be able to discriminate against stoners, so I'd get stuck working with incompitent morons no matter where I go. I have personally seen what pot has done to people who used to be very intelligent... they really don't have much to contribute to society now.

That's just retarded. In fact, that maybe the stupidest thing you've ever said, Weston. There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people that smoke pot on a regular basis, yet still contribute to society, hold down steady jobs, and are very intelligent. In fact, the most retarded, stupidest person I work with is a holier than thou god-loving (fearing) republican who thinks that anyone who so much as smells marijuana in the air should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives....

[Weston]

That's just retarded. In fact, that maybe the stupidest thing you've ever said, Weston. There are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people that smoke pot on a regular basis, yet still contribute to society, hold down steady jobs, and are very intelligent. In fact, the most retarded, stupidest person I work with is a holier than thou god-loving (fearing) republican who thinks that anyone who so much as smells marijuana in the air should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives....

Shut it, hippie. I've seen how dumb it can make people. The only stoner I know that still has some brains is David, but has no ambition to do anything. If some stoners are "smart", then think about how much smarter they would be if they weren't stoners... you obviously can't tell me that pot makes people any smarter.

[Weston]

So I guess the most influential artists, philosophers and thinkers of our time are just a bunch of idiot stoners who aren't worthy enough to type computer code?

Many early chemists died from tasting chemicals. Do you think that's a good idea too? Like I just told scott, you can't tell me that pot makes people smarter. I have yet to see it do anything other than make people slower mentally, less in touch with reality, and less motivated to do things. Maybe being less in touch with reality can help a person's "creativity", but that comes at a price.

[Loud_Scott]

Shut it, hippie. I've seen how dumb it can make people. The only stoner I know that still has some brains is David, but has no ambition to do anything. If some stoners are "smart", then think about how much smarter they would be if they weren't stoners... you obviously can't tell me that pot makes people any smarter.

LOL hippie?? I'm the farthest thing from a hippie this fucking board has. I'm not saying it makes people smarter, but I don't think it makes people auto-retards either.

you have a lot of free time... go and get some research that proves weed makes you dumb. Ohhh...and I don't smoke weed, I'm not a stoner, I'm an "occassional" drinker (if occassional means "when I'm awake") and I'm hella lazy, and don't have any ambition either.... so there goes that argument all to hell.....

[Weston]

LOL hippie?? I'm the farthest thing from a hippie this fucking board has. I'm not saying it makes people smarter, but I don't think it makes people auto-retards either.

you have a lot of free time... go and get some research that proves weed makes you dumb. Ohhh...and I don't smoke weed, I'm not a stoner, I'm an "occassional" drinker (if occassional means "when I'm awake") and I'm hella lazy, and don't have any ambition either.... so there goes that argument all to hell.....

You're a hippie, chicken fucker. I never said it made people "auto-retards", but just that it makes people dumber. I don't need to do research to tell me something that I've already seen for myself to people who I knew both before and after they became stoners. Let's face it, there's a reason that stoners have a reputation of being dumbasses, and it's well deserved. My argument doesn't go "all to hell" just because you're a lazy slob... I said that pot tends to make people lazy and take away their ambition, not that it's the only thing that can make people that way.

[12seccivy]

Just let it be on the record..IF you smoke pot all the time.. I mean more than 10 times a day....IT WILL MAKE YOU DUMB..
I've seen many people who were heavy.. HEAVY pot smokers turn to dumb shits... It kills brain cells in a serious way.. but if you drink the same amount per say.. It will do the same thing...not as fast,but the same effect

[12seccivy]

Alcohol is one of the only drugs that can kill you from withdrawal symptoms. One of my friends was stuck in an ICU for several days, and a hospital bed for nearly 2 weeks because of a ruptured pancreas caused by 4 years of heavy drinking (this was his second visit to the hospital for a failing organ due to excessive drinking mind you). Obviously the doctors didn't let him drink, so while he was recovering from this episode, he was going through withdrawal symptoms. When I saw him for the first time in the hospital he was violently shaking and in a completely delusional state, which went on for a few days. Aside from opiates, alcohol is probably the hardest drug to quit once you get sucked in. So no, it's not easy to recover from.
I wish I could agree. Have you seen someone who has withdrawls from cocaine?.. how about heroin.. how about crack.. its fuckin destructive as hell..
Now, I can say no pot withdrawls.. at least that I'm aware of.. but I was excluding pot from the drug pile..Most drugs even alcohol have bad withdrawl effects. but alcohol has more treatment available... hmm,,it's a legal drug.. that's why.. everything else is discriminated against because it's illegal.. not fair?.. but true.. most of the hard drugs will fuck your head up when you quit.. and some of those drugs will either kill you,or make you want to kill yourself..bad stuff

[Weston]

Just let it be on the record..IF you smoke pot all the time.. I mean more than 10 times a day....IT WILL MAKE YOU DUMB..
I've seen many people who were heavy.. HEAVY pot smokers turn to dumb shits... It kills brain cells in a serious way.. but if you drink the same amount per say.. It will do the same thing...not as fast,but the same effect

:werd: I've seen it happen to people who did it less though.

Oh really, care to site your sources on that one?

David, that's "cite your sources", and it's common knowledge that frequent pot smoking makes people dumb... and not because the media tells us this, but because pretty much everyone has seen this happen to someone they know.

Here's some reading...

http://www.geocities.com/healthmoon/smoking-marijuana/brain.htm

How does marijuana affect the brain?

THC affects the nerve cells in the part of the brain where memories are formed. This makes it hard for the user to recall recent events (such as what happened a few minutes ago). It is hard to learn while high - a working short-term memory is required for learning and performing tasks that call for more than one or two steps.

Among a group of long-time heavy marijuana users in Costa Rica, researchers found that the people had great trouble when asked to recall a short list of words (a standard test of memory). People in that study group also found it very hard to focus their attention on the tests given to them.

Smoking marijuana causes some changes in the brain that are like those caused by cocaine, heroin, and alcohol. Some researchers believe that these changes may put a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as cocaine or heroin.

It may be that marijuana kills brain cells. In laboratory research, scientists found that high doses of THC given to young rats caused a loss of brain cells such as that seen with aging. At 11 or 12 months of age (about half their normal life span), the rats' brains looked like those of animals in old age. It is not known whether a similar effect occurs in humans.



Also, see http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html


Effects on the Brain

...

The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate. Research findings for long-term marijuana abuse indicate some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs.

...

Effects of Heavy Marijuana Use on Learning and Social Behavior

Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Depression, anxiety, and personality disturbances have been associated with chronic marijuana use. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off.

Students who smoke marijuana get lower grades and are less likely to graduate from high school, compared with their nonsmoking peers. A study of 129 college students found that, among those who smoked the drug at least 27 of the 30 days prior to being surveyed, critical skills related to attention, memory, and learning were significantly impaired, even after the students had not taken the drug for at least 24 hours. These "heavy" marijuana abusers had more trouble sustaining and shifting their attention and in registering, organizing, and using information than did the study participants who had abused marijuana no more than 3 of the previous 30 days. As a result, someone who smokes marijuana every day may be functioning at a reduced intellectual level all of the time.

[Deceptakhan]

As a guy that is trying to quit and does so for a week then puffs again, EVERYONE notices a difference, including me. Not just when blazed, but for days after. In school, I learn faster, am more in tune, and am much, much sharper. I can read through chapters quicker, etc. In social life, I'm wittier, can actually come up with fast thinking, remember shit, etc. I truly like when I'm not high much much more, but quitting is hard. After a week has gone by without smoking, dramitic results happen.

I know, I know. Its just weed, but after living with it for awhile, its REALLY hard to quit. Especially if alot of friends do it.

[Bedlam]

This thread is f'ing stupid. There IS an amount of alcohol you can drink, and it HAS been proven to have positive health benefits. (red wines/dark beers here).

The biggest problem I have with drugs...ALL drugs, is the human tendancy to over indulge and abuse them. Alcohol included.

Funny thing I see here is a bunch of drug users defending their habit...do you think people that are now mentally "delayed" because of their drug use even realize it? I really doubt it.."hey man...I used to be able to hold a decent conversation, and now I just sound like a flaming idiot..oh fuck it..pass the bong d00d!!"

Besides, obviously those of us that DONT do drugs made a lifestyle choice. I've NEVER seen anything positive come from someone doing drugs, not once..ever. Yet I've seen plenty of bad things..hell, if you spent half as much time as I did in the hospital, and see all the fucked up tweakers and drug addicts in rehab..I think you would really have a different outlook on things.

I hate drugs, I hate drug users, the idea of people smoking pot out in public is just as horrible as people smoking tobacco..yay! another legal way for people to ruin their lives! great idea!

[Chris_V=|work|=]

im not going to listen to this stoney mcstonerhead.

[Weston]

oh shit, I guess weed has fried my brain to the point that I used the wrong spelling of a word...damn...

Marijuana has a short term effect on memory, I'm not going to argue against that. Obviously if your stoned, you're not going to be able to get a perfect score an your SATs. But it's purley temporary, here is a really good study done by Harvard that argues against both sides of the debate and actually uses something called 'research' to back up their claims. I mean, I hate to go against your 5 pages deep google search geocities reference, but I think I'll believe what Harvard has to say.

http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html

David, both of my links were based on research, and one of them was from the NIH, which is a hell of a lot more credible than some dumbass college student publication. And once again, we don't even need research to tell us something that everyone can see for themselves. Only stoners think that stoners are smart or are making convincing arguments. You try to claim that the effects of marijuana use are only present while you are high, but then why is it that we all figured out that you are the biggest stoner on HAI, way back when you never said anything about pot, and totally denied doing it when the subject came up? Drugs are bad, David.

[V8SpankR]

Taco Bell wouldn't survive w/o stoners.:)

[ryanman]

I guess I'll share my experiences with drugs and alcohol.......

I use to drink when I was in my late teens, drank alot, never got addicted and never really wanted to do it but I live on an island with nothing better to do, quit drinking when I was 22, haven't done it since.

I smoked weed when I was 16 for a couple months, walked away from it and haven't had the urge to do it since.

Earlier this year I bought $7500 in crack to help someone out with some money issues, they couldn't pay me back so me and my g/f smoked it, I was curious to see if i would get "addicted" or not, smoked it all in 2 days, lamest drug ever, no urge to ever do it again.

I started poppin pills earlier this year, it's cool and all but I'm not addicted to it, I could walk away from it anytime.

I don't understand this addiction shit cause I cant seem to get addicted to anything. WTF am I doing wrong? lol

[blue]

yea ive done your basic drugs weed, mushrooms, X, popped pills, coke, like ryanman i just dont get addicted to anything, i started smoking when i was 16 also did it for a year quit no problem, picked it back up when i was 18 did it untill 2 days ago(im going to be 20 in a few days) and that has been the last time and will probly be the last time untill i visit the south or move back cause its alot cheaper and better down there. everything else ive done once, like shrooms, had fun on X, pills are good with beer, coke SUCKED i hated that, did it a few times never do it again weird feeling and the taste down the back of the throat is awful, then i drink beer not everyday but i enjoy getting drunk, but all in all i dont regret doing any of them there all experiances(sp) just my 2 cents

[Weston]

I'm not going to argue the NIH page, it had nothing to do with brain cell loss and went along with what the Harvard study had shown. But your geocities page on the other hand says that some monkeys in a study lost brain cells, while the page makes no attempt to back up these claims or state the origins of these findings and you know why? (and here comes the kicker) It was bullshit!

The Harvard link you posted didn't back itself up any more than my geocities link did... both were reporting results of research, but didn't exactly specify which research. Now you're back-peddling to say that we're only talking about brain cell loss. I just said that it makes people dumber, or did you forget that already, Stoney McStonerhead? :D Brain cell loss isn't the only way to make people dumb. Also, you continue to neglect to address the fact that research isn't even needed, because so many people have seen it for themselves that it's common knowledge. Even in this same thread, an ex-user told us of his experience after quitting it. You obviously can't even argue against that since you are still a heavy user.

... And thanks to current research, even this claim is a stretch (but who can argue with, 'Well there was this kid I talked to back in high school smoked pot, and he couldn't hold a conversation').

It's not a stretch, it's a well known fact that many of us have seen for ourselves. As for my own experience with potheads, as I have already stated, I had some friends who I knew both before and after they became stoners. They only did it like once a day, but that became all that they cared about, they fucked up their lives and relationships with other people, they lost touch with reality, and they were just plain stupid too. I even remember one time when I was in the car with them and the driver, Stoner A, switched his digital speedometer from MPH to KM/HR and said to Stoner B, "hey, look at how fast we're going!". Stoner B was totally convinced and said something to the effect of, "whoa! we're flying!"... We were only going like 35 mph. Before becoming stoners, they both were pretty bright and well on their way to a promising career in a computer science field.

Yes, when I'm stoned I act like an idiot, but I never drive stoned, I don't run around trying to piss random people off, and it has never gotten in the way of my school work or professional life. ...

David, your "professional life" consists of working at Best Buy, which you even told us that you had trouble with so they moved you to a simpler department, and then you just quit for no reason other than lazyness, even though you had bills and rent to pay.

Is trying to keep people from being 'stupid' for a couple hours really worth 10 - 12 billion dollars a year? Sending thousands of innocent people to jail, to live with rapists and murdered for just committing an act that hurts nobody but themselves?

It's not, but then again, our legal system is so loose that hardly anyone goes to jail, let alone prison, for smoking pot. If you want to make yourself dumber, then that's your bad decision to make, as far as I'm concerned. But as I stated before, my real problem here is that legalizing this will greatly encourage it's use, as well as make it even more acceptable for people in this country to be dumb, lazy, slobs. I have no interest in having to deal with even more retards.

[Nightfall]

So, Weston. Would/do you judge people based upon if they smoke weed or not, or on an individual basis?

[Dave_L]

I'm addicted to drinking because its so awesome.

[Weston]

So, Weston. Would/do you judge people based upon if they smoke weed or not, or on an individual basis?

I simply treat people based on the way that they act. If they act like a dumbass, I'll treat them like one, regardless of if it's from marijuana or not. However, when I find out that it is from pot or other drugs, that makes them an even bigger dumbass because it means that they have chosen to be this way. If, as the stoners claim, pot doesn't really make people dumb, then they wouldn't be acting like dumbasses and I'd have no reason to suspect marijuana use and "discriminate" against them.

[stu]

Bedlam brings up a good point that nothing good comes from drugs. Many people use the example of a friend they have who is successful and does drugs. Loud_Scott used one in this very thread. I believe that there are certain people who can maintain a successful lifestyle while doing drugs, but they are few and far between. So rare in fact, that they shouldn't even be mentioned in discussions like this because we all know for damn sure that they aren't successfuly because of the drug.

Weston, this is the serious section, keep the personal insults out of your poor arguments.

[Weston]

Bedlam brings up a good point that nothing good comes from drugs. Many people use the example of a friend they have who is successful and does drugs. Loud_Scott used one in this very thread. I believe that there are certain people who can maintain a successful lifestyle while doing drugs, but they are few and far between. So rare in fact, that they shouldn't even be mentioned in discussions like this because we all know for damn sure that they aren't successfuly because of the drug.

:werd:

Weston, this is the serious section, keep the personal insults out of your poor arguments.

It's not an insult to call someone a stoner when they are apparently proud of it. Don't make me fight you to the death, again...

[hatchbackgirl]

I drink occasionally, but I don't believe in doing drugs of any kind. More than anything, I just think that pot (or any kind of smoke for that matter) smells nasty. I just prefer to stay drug free :-) I don't drink and get drunk or even buzzed very often... I usually just have 2 drinks and I'm fine :) I guess I would say what everyone else does, I think that alcohol is acceptable in our society because it's legal.. drugs are kind of a touchy issue.

[V8SpankR]

Alcohol IS A DRUG and so is the nicotine in cigarettes. I don't consider somebody who smokes pot on the occassional weekend night a dopehead. It's all about moderation.
I find it funny that just because alcohol is legal we accept it over pot but we know from hard evidence that alcohol is much more deady and contributes to society's problems more than pot ever will even if it was legal. Alcoholism is a disease and I don't see marijuana having that connection.

If people did neither then everythign would be better but that's just not how the world is.

[Deltron_3030]

Taco Bell wouldn't survive w/o stoners.:)

me and my friend order 16 tacos when we were high off of our asses, it took us an hour to eat it all.

[V8SpankR]

Here's another way to look at things:

Take two people,one who has smoked has been addicted to pot for 20 years and another who is an alcoholic for 20 years and put them in a room and force them to quit cold turkey and I guarantee the alcoholic will suffer physical problems and mental anguish long before the dopehead will. Alcohol is one of the most addictive drugs out there and is responsible for more deaths than any other drugs put together but we socially accept it.

Looi at the net of people passed out with people writing on them and putting dicks in their faces,guess what? 99% of those passed out were drunk.Also how many famous people have been nailed driving stoned vs drunk. Mel Gibson probably should've smoked pot instead. :)

[Loud_Scott]

Alcohol IS A DRUG and so is the nicotine in cigarettes. I don't consider somebody who smokes pot on the occassional weekend night a dopehead. It's all about moderation.
I find it funny that just because alcohol is legal we accept it over pot but we know from hard evidence that alcohol is much more deady and contributes to society's problems more than pot ever will even if it was legal. Alcoholism is a disease and I don't see marijuana having that connection.

If people did neither then everythign would be better but that's just not how the world is.

That's not really a point that can be proven. I would guess that pot would have alot of the same problems alcohol has if I could just goto the weed store and pick up a dime bag anytime i wanted.

Pot's just like everything else, people can and sometimes do become addicted to it. I know people who can't sleep if they dont light up -- when they're out for 5 days they're body starts to freak out -- same as some people I know (namely me) who have that issue with booze.

[V8SpankR]

Problems with alcohol are much more common with your average person than pot has. Pot while it's illegal it's still has very wide spread use in america but alcohol is still what rears it's ugly head. Pot addiction isn't the same and your average pot user can quit cold turkey. Anybody that abuses alcohol will become addicted. Alcohol has much more dire consequences than pot by far and that is eveident in everyday life. Show me how many people have OD'd on pot,pot doesn't kill you,even slowly.

I wish people on this thread could have a true opinion of both and have abused both,most anti-pot people have never truly smoked it and have no comparison to being drunk vs being stoned. I drank alot during my early 20s and I've smoked a lot of pot so I can have a educate opinion of both.

[chris_venturini]

im drinking a beer as im reading this thread and its still boring, maybe i should smoke some pot and see if it changes. That will be the factor that determines my opinion.

[Loud_Scott]

Problems with alcohol are much more common with your average person than pot has. Pot while it's illegal it's still has very wide spread use in america but alcohol is still what rears it's ugly head. Pot addiction isn't the same and your average pot user can quit cold turkey. Anybody that abuses alcohol will become addicted. Alcohol has much more dire consequences than pot by far and that is eveident in everyday life. Show me how many people have OD'd on pot,pot doesn't kill you,even slowly.

I wish people on this thread could have a true opinion of both and have abused both,most anti-pot people have never truly smoked it and have no comparison to being drunk vs being stoned. I drank alot during my early 20s and I've smoked a lot of pot so I can have a educate opinion of both.

Even though pot has widespread use in America it's nowhere near as prevalent as alcohol. True you can't OD on pot, but your body can become dependent on it, just like anyother drug -- caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, crank, meth, speed whatever.

I haven't "abused" either (although some people tend to disagree) but I have enjoyed both. Pot is a really mellow high, which doesn't suit my personality very well. Booze gets me excited and wound up -- ready to go; I didn't get the nickname Loud_Scott becuz I'm that guy sitting quietly in the corner.

[12seccivy]

. True you can't OD on pot, but your body can become dependent on it, just like anyother drug -- caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, crank, meth, speed whatever.

.
I beg to differ about dependency on THC.
There was some scientific findings that it has no addictive qualities. I read this stuff years ago and was a basis for legalizing(or trying to)the drug.
I think you become emotionally addicted,but not physically addicted to pot.
I have never smoked pot long enough or frequently enough to confirm this.Alcohol on the other hand and other drugs you are refering to has a tolerance buildup that is suppossedly physically addictive and will cause withdrawl symptoms that can kill you if severe enough..

[Loud_Scott]

I beg to differ about dependency on THC.
There was some scientific findings that it has no addictive qualities. I read this stuff years ago and was a basis for legalizing(or trying to)the drug.
I think you become emotionally addicted,but not physically addicted to pot.
I have never smoked pot long enough or frequently enough to confirm this.Alcohol on the other hand and other drugs you are refering to has a tolerance buildup that is suppossedly physically addictive and will cause withdrawl symptoms that can kill you if severe enough..

A mental addiction can still cause issues. When my brother goes "sober" he can't sleep, he gets bitchy, and basically becomes an all around dick. He gets "green" again and becomes a normal person who can deal with life and what happens....


for what it's worth
http://www.marijuana-addiction.net/marijuana-dangers.htm

Another one of the marijuana dangers is physical dependence on the drug. Many people try to stop over and over but are overwhelmed by anxiety, irritability and sleeping difficulties. Physical dependence is marked by withdrawal symptoms when the drug is removed. The marijuana dangers include the bodies' adaptation to an almost continuous presence of the drug in its system. The brain adapts to the pain reducing reaction to the drug and its other analgesic effects like inducing sleep. Those who have only tried smoking pot once or twice might be amazed that anybody could function on the drug at all. But those who have been smoking the drug for months and years have become accustom to its effects and can often hide the fact that they are high at all.

[Nightfall]

I don't believe for a second that pot is physically addictive. I've been smoking for 5-6 years and have quit many times for a month or two at a time for whatever reason, usually the anticipation of a piss test. No problems there. If I have it, cool, if I don't, fine.

Does it help me sleep? You bet. Do I have a harder time falling asleep w/o it, that would be another yes. I don't see anybody posting in here about how bad sleeping pills are, and they have FAR more addictive qualities. Why? Because they are legal.

If it's legal, society is fine with it. If it's illegal you will be shunned for your opposing opinion. I really don't care if anybody thinks i'm stupid because I smoke. I don't care if I am looked down upon by closed minds. Why should I? I make completely decent money, not only for my age but in general too. I'm not late to work every day, I make good choices for the most part, and I know i'm not stupid.

[Mark_H]

=-;609376'] I drink merrily when I get a chance so I'm no saint. It's just my choice not to do drugs due to my experience with family members.

I'm 100% with you here. I like getting drunk on occassion but despise the use of any drugs. I had a close family member and a close friend start smoking pot in excess when I was really young and I watched their lives deteriorate in front of my eyes. It really hit me hard watching that, and it was "only" pot. I can't imagine if it was meth or cocain.
Mark

[12seccivy]

I'm 100% with you here. I like getting drunk on occassion but despise the use of any drugs. I had a close family member and a close friend start smoking pot in excess when I was really young and I watched their lives deteriorate in front of my eyes. It really hit me hard watching that, and it was "only" pot. I can't imagine if it was meth or cocain.
Mark
I'm in the same boat.. I drink,but no longer do pot..
Any drug has that effect if not done moderately.. It consumes anyone who doesnt stay in control...I was in the same situation when I was younger. then I woke up and realized I was going down a path that led to disaster.. and pulled back my usage ALOT.. then became a very moderate user then now.... well kaput,nada..

[blue]

I don't believe for a second that pot is physically addictive. I've been smoking for 5-6 years and have quit many times for a month or two at a time for whatever reason, usually the anticipation of a piss test. No problems there. If I have it, cool, if I don't, fine.

Does it help me sleep? You bet. Do I have a harder time falling asleep w/o it, that would be another yes. I don't see anybody posting in here about how bad sleeping pills are, and they have FAR more addictive qualities. Why? Because they are legal.

If it's legal, society is fine with it. If it's illegal you will be shunned for your opposing opinion. I really don't care if anybody thinks i'm stupid because I smoke. I don't care if I am looked down upon by closed minds. Why should I? I make completely decent money, not only for my age but in general too. I'm not late to work every day, I make good choices for the most part, and I know i'm not stupid.
i agree, ive started and stoped with no problem, and like you said it pretty much just a relaxant and shit any relaxant is going to help you go to sleep easier sometimes I would smoke in bed and just crash, cause to me it made me sleep GOOOOOOOOD. but to each his own

[V8SpankR]

I like pot since it's easy to sneak into concerts,it doesn't have to be cold and one hit (of quality stuff) has immediate effects and it also doesn't make you fat like beer will. I've also never heard the expression "man,that guys becomes a raging asshole when he smokes dope.

Also I don't see drunk people playing video games,skateboarding and doing well or even winning a gold medal in snowboarding at the Olympics. Being drunk and being high are quite different.

[ryanman]

:werd:

[blue]

kinda straying from the subject, but the best movie to see when your high is "The Big Lebowski" if you havent seen it give me a PM we'll get high and watch it. you will laugh your ass off.

[V8SpankR]

Shit,when you are high even watching a half hour of Bob Rossi painting happy little trees is entertaining.

[V8SpankR]

Stoned people don't mosh at inappropriate concerts like the 5 drunk morons that all the other people in the pit had to deal with at the Iron Maiden concert I went too. Oh yeah,drunk people also love to fight,throw up and pass out at concerts too.

How many bands careers were ruined by alcohol? Behind the Music would not even be a show if it wasn't for alcohol.

If alcohol is better than give me some examples. It's overall better to abuse neither but it's too bad that adults have a limited choice to "escape" a little when alcohol is pretty much it and it does so much bad in our society.

It'll be interesting to see how the state votes but pot may be the biggest enemy to itself becoming legal since pot smokers can be some of the biggest procrastinators and probably won't vote.
The other side is there is quite a big number of non-smoker registered democrat/liberals,independant voters that would love to piss off conservative Republicans and this would be the way to do it by legalizing it. Also many adults do think the war on pot is a no win situation and it wastes out law enforcements time.

Will it pass IMO? Probably not THIS time but they also said it wouldn't be decriminilized in the state and it passed and then they said it wouldn't pass being legal in Denver and that passed so who knows. Remember when Carmelo's buddy got busted for pot? He was fined $100 and went on his way so one more step to being legal isn't that far since I don't think $100 fines will stop people from using it. People pay more than that in speeding tickets and people still don't slow down.

Before 9/11 this country was spending nearly 20 BILLION a year the war on pot alone while we were spending about 11 Bil a year on homeland security. Pretty sad since marijuana is more prevalent in this country more than ever but I sure hope we are safer within our borders now that the government isn't so concerned with dope.

[12seccivy]

Stoned people don't mosh at inappropriate concerts like the 5 drunk morons that all the other people in the pit had to deal with at the Iron Maiden concert I went too. Oh yeah,drunk people also love to fight,throw up and pass out at concerts too.

How many bands careers were ruined by alcohol? Behind the Music would not even be a show if it wasn't for alcohol.

If alcohol is better than give me some examples. It's overall better to abuse neither but it's too bad that adults have a limited choice to "escape" a little when alcohol is pretty much it and it does so much bad in our society.

It'll be interesting to see how the state votes but pot may be the biggest enemy to itself becoming legal since pot smokers can be some of the biggest procrastinators and probably won't vote.
The other side is there is quite a big number of non-smoker registered democrat/liberals,independant voters that would love to piss off conservative Republicans and this would be the way to do it by legalizing it. Also many adults do think the war on pot is a no win situation and it wastes out law enforcements time.

Will it pass IMO? Probably not THIS time but they also said it wouldn't be decriminilized in the state and it passed and then they said it wouldn't pass being legal in Denver and that passed so who knows. Remember when Carmelo's buddy got busted for pot? He was fined $100 and went on his way so one more step to being legal isn't that far since I don't think $100 fines will stop people from using it. People pay more than that in speeding tickets and people still don't slow down.

Before 9/11 this country was spending nearly 20 BILLION a year the war on pot alone while we were spending about 11 Bil a year on homeland security. Pretty sad since marijuana is more prevalent in this country more than ever but I sure hope we are safer within our borders now that the government isn't so concerned with dope.
You make a LOT of good points in all that..But pot isn't an accepted drug even still..(from the 70's) and the same politicians who were smoking it in their younger years aren't getting it legal..Strange?

[blue]

It'll be interesting to see how the state votes but pot may be the biggest enemy to itself becoming legal since pot smokers can be some of the biggest procrastinators and probably won't vote.
The other side is there is quite a big number of non-smoker registered democrat/liberals,independant voters that would love to piss off conservative Republicans and this would be the way to do it by legalizing it. Also many adults do think the war on pot is a no win situation and it wastes out law enforcements time.

Will it pass IMO? Probably not THIS time but they also said it wouldn't be decriminilized in the state and it passed and then they said it wouldn't pass being legal in Denver and that passed so who knows. Remember when Carmelo's buddy got busted for pot? He was fined $100 and went on his way so one more step to being legal isn't that far since I don't think $100 fines will stop people from using it. People pay more than that in speeding tickets and people still don't slow down.

I agree with you that it plobably wont pass this time, but becuase like with being drunk you can take a breathaliser(sp) and they know 100% your drunk or over the limit, and I dont think pot will become legal untill theres a 100% way to tell if someone is "HIGH" at that very moment. because ask anyone who smokes most people that have done it for awile can hide it pretty damn good. And then someone would say well what about red eyes. well when i get high my eyes dont get red all the time, and if i go swimming at a pool my eyes get bloodshot red, so police couldnt go on that. so bottom line, i think untill they come up with a fool proof plan to tell if your high or not at that moment it wont become legal

[12seccivy]

I agree with you that it plobably wont pass this time, but becuase like with being drunk you can take a breathaliser(sp) and they know 100% your drunk or over the limit, and I dont think pot will become legal untill theres a 100% way to tell if someone is "HIGH" at that very moment. because ask anyone who smokes most people that have done it for awile can hide it pretty damn good. And then someone would say well what about red eyes. well when i get high my eyes dont get red all the time, and if i go swimming at a pool my eyes get bloodshot red, so police couldnt go on that. so bottom line, i think untill they come up with a fool proof plan to tell if your high or not at that moment it wont become legal
If they suspect that you are high,all they need to do is hold you and do a blood test.. but that is a lot of paperwork to get done...

[12seccivy]

A mental addiction can still cause issues. When my brother goes "sober" he can't sleep, he gets bitchy, and basically becomes an all around dick. He gets "green" again and becomes a normal person who can deal with life and what happens....


But this is not death.. alcohol withdrawls can kill you and other drugs also.. that's my point..i dont defend dope in a rightous way(I dont smoke it)but it has been deemed pretty much safe from the evils of other drugs.. It does make you into a DUMBSHIT if you use it too much.
All I need to make a point..

[blue]

If they suspect that you are high,all they need to do is hold you and do a blood test.. but that is a lot of paperwork to get done...

bloodtest.... how is a blood test going to show if your high at the moment

[V8SpankR]

I'm not proud of my driving high but I've also passed two roadside sobriety tests while high since once you are used to it you can hide it very well,alcohol can rarely be hidden from a cop.

My point is alcohol is way more destructive than marijuana by far but people's big beef is it's illegal. If Europoean soccer fans smoked pot there would be a whole lot less violence in the crowds and domestic abuse and alcohol are also directly related.

[12seccivy]

bloodtest.... how is a blood test going to show if your high at the moment
THC content,I guess.
I dont know thew details ,but they can take a sample and determine thc content..but If they can do a blood test fast or not,I have no idea.but they can find out if you were stoned at that time or not..

[blue]

THC content,I guess.
I dont know thew details ,but they can take a sample and determine thc content..but If they can do a blood test fast or not,I have no idea.but they can find out if you were stoned at that time or not..

well if what you say is true then what are we waiting on, lets pass it :guns:

[V8SpankR]

THC content is determined by the quality of Pot you've smoked too and you would draw inconsistent THC levels from say "the chronic" vs bricked mexican weed so the test could be very easily challenged.

[blue]

THC content is determined by the quality of Pot you've smoked too and you would draw inconsistent THC levels from say "the chronic" vs bricked mexican weed so the test could be very easily challenged.

thats why i said "well if what you say is true" becuase im with you 100%

[blue]

and what does the swab pic up, and what happenes if you just stopped off a mcdonals do get 2-3 double cheese burgers and a drink

[Nightfall]

THC, Opiates, meth and Ecstasy, it's kind of like a cheap forced pregnancy test. One strip means yes, two mean no. Unless you swish water around your mouth right before they test you, it would be hard to fake the results because all this stuff is stored in your saliva.

http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/48/1/174

[V8SpankR]

That still wouldn't prove anything with marijuana. How long does a pot high last? It's all different and depends on how much you smoke and once again the THC content in the pot you've smoked. Pot doesn't impair motor skills like alcohol does and is still hard to detect in a field test that's why you rarely see people busted for marijuana.

Even that councilman that got busted I doubt he'll be in trouble for the driving while high part of the ticket. There's just no hard eveidence.

[Loud_Scott]

Stoned people don't mosh at inappropriate concerts like the 5 drunk morons that all the other people in the pit had to deal with at the Iron Maiden concert I went too. Oh yeah,drunk people also love to fight,throw up and pass out at concerts too.

How many bands careers were ruined by alcohol? Behind the Music would not even be a show if it wasn't for alcohol.

If alcohol is better than give me some examples. It's overall better to abuse neither but it's too bad that adults have a limited choice to "escape" a little when alcohol is pretty much it and it does so much bad in our society.



actually most of behind the music is from way harder stuff like coke, and heroin. Booze is just what bands use to come down from the concerts b4 they get into the hard stuff. Songs like "Lucy in the sky with diamonds" were not created while someone was drunk... .

I'm not arguing it's "better" because that's subjective and can never be proven. I'm just saying that I don't think weed is the second coming of jesus....I also don't buy that alcohol is the devil and the reason our society is in the shitter. Even if pot gets legalized, it won't be as widely used as alcohol. With alcohol being waaaaaaay more prevalent, of course you're going to have more "issues" arise from it. You can try to play statistics and say "oh a hundred thousand alcohol related fuck-ups out of a million people vs 100 pot fuck-ups out of a hundred thousand" -- but statistics can be slanted to prove anything that's even remotely possible.

and FYI -- last concert I was at with a mosh pit, the joint was right in the middle being past around.

[V8SpankR]

Actually go watch all the BTMs and alcohol is the biggest reoccuring theme;the other drugs are just included in that demise of a life and alcohol might not have killed alot of them but it did play a role in the end of careers.

Alcohol is a slow death while the drugs usually are the final blow mixed with the alcohol but it's the lengthy bout with alcohol that usually starts the problems. You can mix pot with any other drug and the combo never becomes deadly.

I wasn't slanting stats period and I'm going by my 30 years plus of being around both types of addicts and pot smokers are just not as violent and out of control as alcohol abusers are and that just the nature of the two drugs. I come from a family that has a history of alcohol abuse so I see the diffs first hand.
Moshing isn't caused by pot but the assholes in the mosh pits are usually pretty drunk and you can tell.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

any kind of impairment of judgement is dangerous

[Loud_Scott]

You can mix pot with any other drug and the combo never becomes deadly.


Not to split hairs, but any drug thats deadly (ie coke, heroin, crack, huffing glue) mixed with Pot will still be deadly.... pot isn't making it un-deadly...

and once again, alcohol is going to be the biggest recurring theme because its the most used. but bands and band members have more issues/and cause more problems because of what they are sticking up their nose, not what they're drinking.

Also, i wasnt saying moshing is caused by pot. for the record, i dont think moshing is caused by booze either. i think moshing is caused by fucking retards; i'm just saying the last mosh pit i saw there were joints being passed around, not bottles.....

[Dave_L]

Personal experience for me.

Alcohol=wild and crazy. Not the time to piss me off.

Pot=I cant get mad at anything. I just chill and laugh.

[Nightfall]

Alcohol causes drama, which I hate, so I avoid hanging around with drunks. The most drama that goes on in a house full of high people is "I'm starving but the store is so damn far away".

[Dave_L]

I just find it funny how many people are anti-pot because its illegal. Think for yourself on this one. Who decided that alcohol be legal and pot be illegal? I wasn't around or consulted. I see pot and alcohol on the same level as far as being able to ruin someone's lives if they let it control them. However, I feel pot is a lot safer than alcohol.

[V8SpankR]

I didn't say pot doesn't make other drugs undeadly but alcohol mixed with certain prescription drugs can become a deadly cocktail. My point was that pot doesn't interact with other drugs like alcohol can.