ER episode tonight...

[exciv2000]

So during the ER episode tonight, this nurse samantha's EX comes back into her life, has a gun, and basically rapes her after kidnapping her. Thing is, she didn't stop him, never said no, just let him. After first thinking that she should say no, and then not seeing her do it, I made a smart ass comment that maybe she wanted it. My basis for that comment was that women can be quite manipulative, so even if the ex had a gun, they do have history and my thought is that she could have easily said no, not this time, I don't feel fresh or something, and promised him some later, like after a shower or something. I know it's only TV, and she ended up killing him, but what are your serious comments?

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Scott... are you high?

[exciv2000]

do you want to be banned from this forum? this is for seriousness only!

[NZDarren]

All depends on how hot she is.

[exciv2000]

All depends on how hot she is.

so you would rape her if she didn't say anything? I don't think this forum is working Brian.

[NZDarren]

Is it still rape if she does not say no? I guess if he forced himself on her, its rape in my opinion.

[Weston]

It is legally, and morally, considered rape to have sexual contact with someone that you have kidnapped, even if she doesn't say no. She has to be able to freely make the choice... someone who is kidnapped obviously can't do that. She could even say yes, and then claim that she only did so in an attempt to escape or get the kidnapper to let her go.

do you want to be banned from this forum? this is for seriousness only!

I hope you're kidding... How is this thread considered "serious"? It's TV... unless you're planning to kidnap someone and you want to get some without facing rape charges as well... ;UgH: I just don't see this fitting into ryanman's charter for this subforum, as quoted below, unless it somehow affects you, so let's not get all pissy about it.

Is there anyway we can get something along the lines of a "serious corner"? You know, something where we can go and post serious stuff like personal problems, people needing advice, world issues, etc

[Dave_L]

HAI and serious don't go together very well.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Scott I love you! Dont ban me! :cry:

[exciv2000]

I hope you're kidding... How is this thread considered "serious"? It's TV... unless you're planning to kidnap someone and you want to get some without facing rape charges as well... ;UgH: I just don't see this fitting into ryanman's charter for this subforum, as quoted below, unless it somehow affects you, so let's not get all pissy about it.

This is the charter for this subforum, which I guess you missed:

The rules are pretty straight forward, if you want to be a comedian/shithead/dumbass then take it to OT, if you can't follow that rule then you will be banned from this subforum, pretty simple.

If you don't think rape is a serious issue, then this forum isn't for you. You're far from Dr. Phil. I think making dumbass scenarios up in your head is grounds for a banning from this subforum too. And for the record, I helped incarcerate an individual because he raped a girl I knew back in highschool, so don't come in here telling me I'm getting pissy. Way to show you want to be a moderator ;) :ethug:

[exciv2000]

=-;609232']Scott I love you! Dont ban me! :cry:

It's cool jizstain, just give me a 400 WHP ride :)

[-=[Juztin]=-]

It's cool jizstain, just give me a 400 WHP ride :)U got it! :cool:

[Deceptakhan]

Oh man. Off to a great start in the serious corner. I wonder when Tonnerre is going to chime in. Weston did make a valid point though; in that a girl who is kidnapped cannot make sensible desisions, or one that she would make in a right state of mind. Rapists should be castrated.

[M@]

Man, I bet that nurse has the classiest pussy around. For shoooo.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Like all things legal these days I would say a woman would need to voice her unwillingness or struggle or some form of showing her unwillingness to have sex with you and thus if you do go thru with it against her unwillingness then it would be considered rape.

[Deceptakhan]

=-;609283']Like all things legal these days I would say a woman would need to voice her unwillingness or struggle or some form of showing her unwillingness to have sex with you and thus if you do go thru with it against her unwillingness then it would be considered rape.

Are you really going to argue with a gun?

[stu]

=-;609283']Like all things legal these days I would say a woman would need to voice her unwillingness or struggle or some form of showing her unwillingness to have sex with you and thus if you do go thru with it against her unwillingness then it would be considered rape.


Let's not be stupid. Rape is a crime. It's not a contract where you are obligated to up hold your end of the deal. If someone steals your identity, but you don't tell them "Don't do that" first, then it's okay?

This is a pretty fucking stupid first topic for the "Serious Corner."

Anyone who tries to find loop holes for rape shouldn't be taken seriously at all.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Are you really going to argue with a gun? You can say no, and you can fight. Of course it all comes down to the fact, would you let yourself get rapped willingly to live, or would you rather die then let the asshole get the satisfaction of raping you alive?

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Let's not be stupid. Rape is a crime. It's not a contract where you are obligated to up hold your end of the deal. If someone steals your identity, but you don't tell them "Don't do that" first, then it's okay?

This is a pretty fucking stupid first topic for the "Serious Corner."

Anyone who tries to find loop holes for rape shouldn't be taken seriously at all.I'm not saying it's not a crime, but if you dont try to stop somebody in any way from doing something bad to you, it's your own damn fault for not standing up to yourself. Stealing somebody elses identy has it's own issues with most people would thing it as 'wrong' to steal somebody's identity. The same with rape, dont have sex with a woman against her will, that's considered rape. But what if she doesn't struggle at all and doesn't say anything and nothing she just lets you (or you percieve since she doesn't reject you in any way) do it. On a side note - I didn't even realize there was a serious corner section of OT otherwise I wouldn't of been a wise ass earlier - doh!

[stu]

=-;609298']but if you dont try to stop somebody in any way from doing something bad to you, it's your own damn fault for not standing up to yourself.

No, it's not. That's the problem with this bullshit argument. You don't have to remind a rapist that what they are doing is a crime. Even if you didn't see a speed limit sign, and you are still speeding, you're still wrong. No if's, and's, but's. Why would you even try to find a way to get a rapist off for raping a girl? That's exactly what you're doing. By even suggesting what you are, you are proposing that rape is okay, as long as the woman isn't aggressive. It's total bullshit and I'd be embarassed if I were you.

I'm not mad at you, but you have to reconsider what you're saying here. I see this bullshit argument all the fucking time and I just don't understand it. There is NO way to justify rape. Not everyone is going to fight someone off. Some people would flat out just be too afraid to do anything, like a deer in head lights. In no way, shape, or form does that make it their fault that a crime was commited against them. I'm always floored when people try to use this. It's just too stupid.

[M@]

^ well said.

[Dave_L]

Stu, I see what you are saying. But what I think Justin is trying to say is that how are you supposed to know that she doesn't want it? This case defiinitely makes you wonder because they have history together. If it was a random chick, I'd have to side with you on this one. But this situation already shows that they have had intimacy together in the past and by her not saying no or doing anything, might mean she wants it. Lets say a girl cheats on her current BF with an ex. After the moment, I'd imagine she'll regret it but during it, she is reliving the past and remembering the good times. I'd imagine that might be going on in this situation.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

All in all, thankfully it's the Judge's burden to interprit who is right and who is wrong. But I still think one cant just simply say rape is rape, there's 2 sides to the story just like with everything else. I'm not proposing that rape is okay, but I am playing devil's advocate and saying that you have to look at both sides first. I'm not justifying rape, if you have sex with a woman against her will that's rape no if's and's or but's. But you will always have a possibility for grey area that you just can't label rape and slap a case closed on it. What you obviously see as right and wrong is not to be placed upon everybody on earth, it's YOUR own perspective. You can call me and idiot and say I should be embarassed about myself, but you know what I'm not. There is 2 sides to a coin, and right and wrong is just merely a definition of morals and everybody differs. But in terms of justice I still think that it needs to be deemed against a persons will for it to be considered rape. I think rapists should get their dick and balls cut off and left to be mutiliated by the victims family, but at the same time, I think you have to look at both sides first and not just jump to a conclusion.

With your thought on rape, the reverse can be said, what's to stop your ex from claiming you raped her?

[Loud_Scott]

Since this is serious, but also based on tv -- anyone ever see Picket Fences back in the early 90's??

They had a "case" where a guy was raped by a woman... and even though he said "no no no" it was deemed NOT rape because his little guy said "yes yes yes" and he was "erect" --

Even though his mind is saying no, his body is saying yes, and therefore, he's not being raped. So..... what if that has something to do with this situation; I assume we know little to nothing about their bedroom habits. What if she liked it rough, what if they have roleplayed before, and he thought she was getting into it... then is it still rape??

[STIBungy]

So can the same case be said for a female as well? If she ejaculates during intercourse, can that be considered NOT rape since her body is obviously saying "yes yes yes"?


They had a "case" where a guy was raped by a woman... and even though he said "no no no" it was deemed NOT rape because his little guy said "yes yes yes" and he was "erect" --

Even though his mind is saying no, his body is saying yes, and therefore, he's not being raped. So..... what if that has something to do with this situation; I assume we know little to nothing about their bedroom habits. What if she liked it rough, what if they have roleplayed before, and he thought she was getting into it... then is it still rape??

[Dave_L]

Now what if a girl is drunk and decides to have some fun or just "goes with it" because it feels good. But then after, she decides she didnt want to do it and claims rape. She never said "No" but she was obviously enjoying it. That brings us back to what Hung and Scott are asking. What do you think about that?

[stu]

Dave helped clear up the situation that you were trying to say Justin, I'll get back to this after lunch.

[Loud_Scott]

I think that bitch should be gang-raped while she's sober.... but what will really happen is that she'll cry rape and the guy will goto jail forever.

Rape is bad; but women get waaaaaaayyyy too much leniency with being able to cry wolf whenver the hell they want. Also.... not to sound like a total ass, and have everyone hate me (more than they do now) -- most girls/women that get raped -- you ever hear the stories??

"We were at a party, and we were all drinking, playing games -- bla bla bla" Well "at a party" means she was out dressed like a hooker; playing games means "flirting, fooling around" -- then they go upstairs they get all undressed start going and then she says "No, i dont want to" --

I realize that it's still 'no' and the guy should then just stop. But it would be a lot easier to just not put yourself in that situation in the first place. Use a little common sense....because if that guy is even a little bit of an asshole, the night will end poorly

[exciv2000]

not all stories are like that scott. some women get jumped while walking home or get their house broken into and get raped while they are sleeping or home alone. It's pretty sad what criminals will go to to get some. There was a story either last year or earlier this year where two or three men gang raped an old grandmother living alone.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

now that i reread my posts they do come off as saying one thing when I meant another. I do agree though standing up for oneself is a stupid argument. But there's some pretty iffy situations, also even Scott's mention of the guy that didn't get raped although he didn't wanna have sex with the girl was because his dick wanted it seems like a pretty jacked up issue that also is a grey area that's hard to consider. But I would say in that situation that since the guy didn't want it and the girl was actually capable of manhandling him enough to keep him subdued to bone him would be considered rape if proven.

[Dave_L]

"We were at a party, and we were all drinking, playing games -- bla bla bla" Well "at a party" means she was out dressed like a hooker; playing games means "flirting, fooling around" -- then they go upstairs they get all undressed start going and then she says "No, i dont want to" --


:werd:

It seems like a lot of girls say they have been raped. Those are the ones that always have the story like Scott described. I dont mean to downplay rape or make it sound like I dont care about it. Rapists are pieces of shit and I'd love to beat the shit out of them. But girls seem to call rape as soon as they regret doing something when they were drunk.

[stu]

I've never heard a story like that before, not even once.

Justin, I can see your argument if you are talking about people who are in a relationship together. At that point it gets very grey and turns into a 'permissive use' type discussion like borrowing your friend's car or something. However, in a situation like that, we'd have to examine an actual case, with actual facts and testimonies. There is no way to try and discuss purely hypothetical situations.

I still stand by everything I've said about strangers though.

Loud_Scott: If a girl comes to a party naked, and proceeds to be the biggest cock tease in all of history, she still doesn't deserve rape, and shouldn't expect it. Saying that it's easy to keep yourself out of that kind of situation is a feeble excuse at best. That's just saying, "Oh, well...that's just men for you, no self control. It's not their fault."

It IS their fault, and NO ONE else can be held accountable for their actions. Not the girl, not her body language, not her clothes, not the situation.

[Loud_Scott]

Loud_Scott: If a girl comes to a party naked, and proceeds to be the biggest cock tease in all of history, she still doesn't deserve rape, and shouldn't expect it. Saying that it's easy to keep yourself out of that kind of situation is a feeble excuse at best. That's just saying, "Oh, well...that's just men for you, no self control. It's not their fault."

It IS their fault, and NO ONE else can be held accountable for their actions. Not the girl, not her body language, not her clothes, not the situation.

ummm... i did argue that guys should still be able/willing to stop in my scenario.. however you scenario is completely ridiculous.

If i go into a bank waving a toy gun and yelling "ON THE FLOOR MOTHERFUCKERS!" and a cop shoots me, it must be that cops fault, yes??

NO OF COURSE NOT... which is why i DONT go into a bank and do that; which LOGICALLY is why a chick doesn't come to a party NAKED and be a cocktease... THINK about what your saying.... its COMMON SENSE

[stu]

ummm... i did argue that guys should still be able/willing to stop in my scenario.. however you scenario is completely ridiculous.

If i go into a bank waving a toy gun and yelling "ON THE FLOOR MOTHERFUCKERS!" and a cop shoots me, it must be that cops fault, yes??

NO OF COURSE NOT... which is why i DONT go into a bank and do that; which LOGICALLY is why a chick doesn't come to a party NAKED and be a cocktease... THINK about what your saying.... its COMMON SENSE

My example was supposed to be ridiculous, only to help illustrate that there is NEVER a time that raping a girl is okay. You should re-evaluate your example. Robbing a bank is against the law. Waving a gun at people puts people in danger. If a cop perceives you as dangerous, he's protecting himself and the people around him.

You don't rape a girl at a party to protect everyone else from getting fucked. The point is that dressing/acting slutty NEVER merrits rape as a response. Just because someone is naked, doesn't mean that they are inviting someone else to fuck them. If you accidently walk in on your roommate's girl friend just getting out of the shower in your bathroom, do you start raping her just because she's naked? Of course not.

[stu]

Try to imagine using that shit argument as a defense for yourself.

"Well, she was walking around the party naked and flirting with everyone. What was I supposed to do? Of course I fucked her." It's perposterous and you know it.

[Dave_L]

What about this Stu. Lets say there is some girl at a party or bar that keeps flirting with you. Everything seems to be going well and you end up railing her. She doesn't say anything during but then after she claims rape and says she didn't want it. She didnt say anything because she was too scared to say anything. How would you feel in a situation like that? I'm not saying that she just regretted it, I'm saying she truely didnt want to do it. How the hell are you supposed to know?

[stu]

I have a hard time believing that a girl that filrted with me all night, then agreed to go home with me, would end up being "too scared" later in the same night.

I personally won't ever encounter this situation because I always ask a girl what the deal is, or flat out just wait for her to let me know what she wants. More than once have I had a girl in my bed and not done anything with her because she never said anything.

In fact one time a girl had all her clothes off but her panties, and was practically ripping my dick off with the hand job she was giving me and she said that we weren't having sex that night, so we didn't. Because of that, we later fucked until we were sore for a few days.

[Dave_L]

I know that is a very rare case Stu, I was just using an extreme example like you did. I'm the same as you. If I get a hint of her not wanting it or something, Ill just walk away. I think a lot of girls will start doing something in the heat of the moment or will agree to stuff that they normally wouldnt have. Which girls now have the power to call rape and you are SOL. For example, what if that girl came back and said you raped her. She told you that she didnt want to have sex. What if someone else heard her say that? Then she'd have a witness or if she told her friend "Im not gonna have sex with him tonight". BAM, you're locked up and you're getting a human booster shot from a guy named molly.

All I'm saying is that rape cases today arent always your typical "Take random girl into dark alley and RAMITIN!" Just like you have said, you really have to take it case by case and examine all the evidence.

[stu]

I agree. Funny you say that because her name is Molly. In my specific situation I'd have a slight chance because she came over to spend the night at my house, but it was the second time we hung out and it was premeditated (as opposed to a booty call). I'm so glad I'm an angel and not a rapist.

[Dave_L]

I agree. Funny you say that because her name is Molly. In my specific situation I'd have a slight chance because she came over to spend the night at my house, but it was the second time we hung out and it was premeditated (as opposed to a booty call). I'm so glad I'm an angle and not a rapist.

You're an angle? ;)

[stu]

I always mess those two up. Just like how some people confuse 'yes' and 'no' when they're in the moment. I guess we should be back on topic.

[Weston-work]

This is the charter for this subforum, which I guess you missed:



If you don't think rape is a serious issue, then this forum isn't for you. You're far from Dr. Phil. I think making dumbass scenarios up in your head is grounds for a banning from this subforum too. And for the record, I helped incarcerate an individual because he raped a girl I knew back in highschool, so don't come in here telling me I'm getting pissy. Way to show you want to be a moderator ;) :ethug:

For future reference: When the subject is Dr. Phil, there's a pretty good chance that what I say isn't meant to be taken seriously. ;)

[Loud_Scott]

My example was supposed to be ridiculous, only to help illustrate that there is NEVER a time that raping a girl is okay. You should re-evaluate your example. Robbing a bank is against the law. Waving a gun at people puts people in danger. If a cop perceives you as dangerous, he's protecting himself and the people around him.

You don't rape a girl at a party to protect everyone else from getting fucked. The point is that dressing/acting slutty NEVER merrits rape as a response. Just because someone is naked, doesn't mean that they are inviting someone else to fuck them. If you accidently walk in on your roommate's girl friend just getting out of the shower in your bathroom, do you start raping her just because she's naked? Of course not.

stu; did you read my post??

then they go upstairs they get all undressed start going and then she says "No, i dont want to" --

I realize that it's still 'no' and the guy should then just stop.

I'm not arguing that becuz a bitch is naked and bent over in front of you that you have clear cut authority to RAMITIN (thx dave_l for the verb)

However, if that same bitch showed up to the party with appropriate clothes on, and wasnt bending over or deep throating a banana all nite would you agree the *chances* of her getting raped have been reduced by..... oh i dunno eleventy-billion??

And yes my example was ridiculous, as was yours. FYI waving around a *toy* gun puts no one but yourself in danger....

[stu]

stu; did you read my post??



I'm not arguing that becuz a bitch is naked and bent over in front of you that you have clear cut authority to RAMITIN (thx dave_l for the verb)

However, if that same bitch showed up to the party with appropriate clothes on, and wasnt bending over or deep throating a banana all nite would you agree the *chances* of her getting raped have been reduced by..... oh i dunno eleventy-billion??

And yes my example was ridiculous, as was yours. FYI waving around a *toy* gun puts no one but yourself in danger....

A toy gus is preceived danger and that's enough.

Anyway, to answer your question, it depends. I honestly think that with the right rapist, how the girl is dressed doesn't matter, if he wants to rape a girl, he's going to.

This is tough because there are different types of rapists. Guys who rape stranger girls prey on the weak with low self confidence, while other guys wait till they're too drunk say no. Either way I can't agree that the girl deserved it, even if she fueled hormons with her scantaly clad, sexy, warm body.

[Dave_L]

while other guys wait till they're too drunk say no. Either way I can't agree that the girl deserved it, even if she fueled hormons with her scantaly clad, sexy, warm body.

Ok what about if both people are drunk? The girl just happens to be more drunk. It seems consentual and since the girl is too drunk to say no and the guy is too drunk to realize that she might not want it.

[stu]

That's a good one. There is thing about alcohol but I don't know enough about it.

[forum]

So do eskimoes rape people? I mean they never get to see the scantily clad women.

[Loud_Scott]

So do eskimoes rape people? I mean they never get to see the scantily clad women.

LOL no... thats why seals run away from them so fast

[Tonnerre]

Is it still rape if she does not say no? I guess if he forced himself on her, its rape in my opinion.
It would still be rape. If she did not want it to happen when it was happening then it is rape. If at a later time she had regrets it is not rape, but the guy would have to prove that it was not. It is unfair how much power that word has.