Extortion attempt by former apartment management

[Weston]

First and foremost, DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH THE LEGACY APARTMENTS IN LONGMONT

Cliffs notes at bottom...

A few months ago, I moved out of my apartment of 3.5 years because I bought a condo. I had heard about other people getting cleaning bills for very petty things after move-out, so I went the extra mile to clean up, to avoid being nickle-and-dime'd. It was as clean as the day I moved in, if not cleaner, but that didn't stop them from sending me a nearly-$200 bill for a list of things that I know I had cleaned extremely well. I have never had any move-out charges before, and I definately cleaned this place much better than I did my previous apartment.

I suppose they wouldn't have been able to make up fake charges like this if I had been able to do the move-out walkthrough with the manager, but they gave me the run-around when I tried to make an appointment for that. The first time I called, a very unprofessional woman told me to call back the next day, and that they may not be able to do it at all. I called the next day, but no one answered, so I left a message for the manager, which was never returned. I waited a few days, but then time was up and I had to turn in the keys.

About a month ago, I got a bill for $191 in the mail, with a long list of various cleaning charges for petty things, most of which I specifically remember cleaning very well. Their bill gave me 5 days to pay the absurd charges or be sent to a collection agency. The move-out charges are fraudulent, and I see this as no more than an attempt to extort money from me. On apartmentratings.com, several other people have reported similar experiences. It's extremely disappointing that they have such dishonest business practices, but that's the world that we live in. I simply ignored the bill, because it wasn't even worth my time to write them a letter explaining that they were committing fraud; they already knew what they were doing.

I have now been contacted by the debt collector who offered to settle the matter at 90%, for $171. If I don't pay up by the end of the month, it will go on my credit report and they may sue me. Sounds like intimidation and extortion to me. I don't really care about my credit report... I have great credit, but I also already have my mortgage, as well as more credit cards and loans than I want, so I wont be seeking any more credit any time soon. My only real concern is if they sue me... I know they can't prove shit in court, but it's my word against thiers, and we already know that they are eager to lie, so who knows if they'll have fabricated evidence or lying witnesses. Missing work would cost me some money too, but the big thing that I'm wondering about is if the judgement were to be in their favor, would I be liable for their legal costs? I don't really have much understanding of the civil side of law. I'm also wondering if they'd even bother to take me to court over this little amount of money. The collections guy said that they had balances in the thousands with other former residents of these apartments, so I wonder if they'd even bother with me.


Cliffs: My old apartment's management billed me $191 for bogus cleaning charges, and they have a history of doing this to other people. The debt collector offered to settle at $171, otherwise it's going on my credit report and they may sue me. I'm not sure if I should just suck it up and pay the crooks to go away (even though it's against my principals), or if it's really worth the trouble to drag it out. I also need to know if I'd be responsible for their legal costs, if they were to sue me.

Thanks in advance for any useful info or stories of similar experiences.

[Steve_C]

Show them your gun and then ask them what they plan on doing with that frivalous bill

[Kwando]

fuck them weston, don't pay shit...

[Martian]

Don't pay. Tell the collector that the charges are unwarranted and he'll help you from there. The collection agency will then investigate the claim. After that it might move to court procedings but unlikely. Reason is, the appartment company has to pay the collector for the investigation. This would cost them more money than they could get from you. My only question is, did you have a security deposit with them. If so, then they cannot come after you for any monies other than back rent. If no, then its a slightly different battle.

[Bedlam]

The real question is...what does it say in your lease? I've seen lots of them that write in some expense for carpet cleaning and whatnot..I'd expect to pay some of that after living in a place that long.

[Weston]

No security deposit, and I did pay around $80 for carpet cleaning, which was already taken care of before I moved out. The charges are as follows:

$100 painting
$10 range cleaning
$10 refrig. cleaning
$10 dish washer cleaning
$5 kitchen floor cleaning
$3 wipe counters
$4 living room window blind cleaning
$4 living room window cleaning
$1 wipe living room fixtures
$1 fireplace door glass cleaning
$3 patio sweep
$4 bedroom window blind cleaning
$3 bedroom window cleaning
$3 wipe bedroom fixtures
$5 bathroom floor cleaning
$3 bathroom sink cleaning
$3 bathroom cabinet cleaning
$1 wipe bathroom fixtures
$3 wipe bathroom commode
$10 bathtub cleaning
$5 washer and dryer cleaning

I remember cleaning almost all of those things, and to a rather ridiculous degree too. I wouldn't fight the dishwasher, and maybe not the living room window blinds or bathtub either, since they may not have been spotless, but everything else was amazingly clean. There's no way they'd be trying to charge me for this petty bullshit if I were able to do the move-out walkthrough with the manager, but they did a good job of preventing that.

It was my understanding that I didn't have to cover the painting as long as I lived there for over a year, which I did. However, that is the one page of my lease that they didn't give me a copy of. :\

[Martian]

It was my understanding that I didn't have to cover the painting as long as I lived there for over a year, which I did. However, that is the one page of my lease that they didn't give me a copy of. :\
Call them and tell them you want a copy of your signed lease then.

[2fastNturn]

Thats a 9 wants to know or fox31 thing right there.

Find someone who is moving out and document on video the maticulous cleaning. Then when they get the bill.... sue the fuck out of those assholes.

[Mario]

Yea man, call some TV. Get some publicity. And trust me, it won't be good publicity either.

[desireems77]

First of all, they can't charge you for painting or carpet. That's considered resonable wear and tear because they always paint and clean, or replace the carpet apartments in between renters. Secondly, always take pics of the apartment before you leave. You shouldn't pay for "cleaning." The only thing you should pay for is damages, (i.e. holes in the walls, broken shades, etc.) You need to contest this with your credit bureaus as a false charge as well.

[STIBungy]

Do you have any receipts that prove that you cleaned the place?

[Conrad]

the debt collector people will put it on your credit which sucks balls... I would just pay up front and then fight it after the fact. get a lawyer and make em pay!

[Mark_H]

I agree with whoevr mentioned somehting about talking it through with the debt collector. Print out the other complaints that you found online and fax it to them if they ask for them.
On another note I had a kind of similar incident years ago at an apartment. But it was for about half that amount of money. I also cleaned up better then when I moved in. I ended up calling the owner of the property(all tenants actually wrote the rent checks directly to him, so I knew his name). I honestly and clearly explained the situation and I got an apology letter in the mail within a few days.
Mark

[Kwando]

debt collectors aren't shit... i had someone go to the ER as me for stitches on their thumb... the hospital tired to collect from me, i basically told them to eat shit... then a month or so later, a collection agency called... i told them the fact, 1. i had insurance, i would have provided my insurance card. 2. they did not have my birthday correct. 3. it was on the right thumb, i am right handed, how would i have signed...

i havne't seen or heard shit after i laid out the facts of the case.. nothing is on my credit either...

[Slow96GSR]

I hear a class action law suet coming! Find other renters that can say what they have been charged for and then when they go to sue you, you counter sue them. It’s what I told my apartments I would do. They took out the smoke detectors and never replaced them and did it to like 20 other apartments so when they threatened to sue me for the $3k they said I owed them I said I would sue for endangerment and breach of contract for 1-5 million per person. They hung up, never called again and never reported to my credit. In fact my rating went up from them! The collector that did call was like, “If you don’t pay you won’t be able to get a house”. Little did she know I left because I bought a house, it was the family house so it was cheap but still a house!!

[M@]

Same thing happened to me, I had to pay it. :(

[rmcdaniels]

Same thing happened to me, except the landlord kept my $450 deposit for the cleaning/repair fees. I took the landlord to small claims court. The judge heard our case and asked the landlord if he'd like to drop the cleaning fees before he ruled against him. The landlord decided I didn't owe him anything after all.

edit - I was in my police uniform at the time, don't know if that helped.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Weston, pay the money. Then fire bomb the building. Plain and simple.

[rmcdaniels]

Set their car on fire:

http://s115271005.onlinehome.us/images/BC1.jpg

[stu]

Weston, just call Tom Martino, he's got a 24 hour team working for YOU. Seriously, www.troubleshooter.com. I told Paul to contact Tom Martino once about his car at the dealership, and the dealership called him the next morning. People are afraid of Tom Martino. He's a badass.

[Brandon]

on a side note for credit, it's a good idea to check your credit once in awhile and dispute everything even if you messed up and someone reports something on your credit. They have a certain time to respond to your dispute and sometimes they won't respond to the credit companies so whatever bad things went on your credit get taken right back off.

(I had someone tell me this, I don't have first hand experience)

[robstamina]

When I was in Breck moving pretty much every 6 months I just planned on the Apt's to keep my security dep. no matter how well I cleaned..

I tried to fight it once but it was a waste of time and money iin the long run.

I had to pay the court cost too cause I lost..basically you have to have proof..

that is why during the intial "walk through" before I rented AND after I rented I video taped everything so I could avoid this and HOPEFULLY get my $ back..

[B20badboy]

How long did you live there, they are required to either clean or replace the carpet after so long that a tennant has lived there. Painting is also required after a certin amount of time.
http://www.nolo.com/resource.cfm/catID/31250834-6A2E-4970-9EDD4DAF221A0C7E/104/138/

[Varao]

I had a simular situation and I wish that I payed when I got the bill. When it was all said and done I had to pay well over 3 times the amount plus the mark on my credit hurt for the next few years. My advise to you would be to pay it its not that much really and there isnt anyway you can trully prove that the things were "cleaned" to thier standards. In my situation they hired out and they had a bill from the cleaning company which they had the right to make me pay under my contract so I was screwed. The money they are asking is not enough to try and fight it. Crooks are all over the world and sometimes you have to eat it sucks I know but like I said I wish that I payed mine when I got so many years ago.

[B20badboy]

Unfortunatly it is so much easier to hurt your credit than help it.

[smithz]

Unfortunatly it is so much easier to hurt your credit than help it.
:werd:

Once tarnished, it's hard to even get real mistakes off of there, let alone an actual claim against it.