Anti LS/VTEC campain...

[allmotor_civic]

Yeah I know I'm being a hypocrite, but seriously I read, hear, and see so many people diving head first into an LS/VTEC project without knowing or addressing the frankenstein gremlins.
So heres my new list of;
WHY LS/VTEC's SUCK:
1. Headgaskets fail, often
2. Overheating is very common
3. Oiling is a major problem (both pressure and flow from VTEC head)
4. No oil squirters for the pistons
5. Long stroke, short rod, not good for high RPM use
6. Honda engineer's would never trust LS/VTEC for street use
7. B18A/B rods are weaker than other B series VTEC rods
8. B18A/B blocks aren't that much cheaper than B18C blocks
9. I haven't seen many LS/VTEC's running in the quick class
10. Duh, it's like forcing a round peg into a square hole
The preceeding also goes for CRVTEC's as they are even worse on the C/R and rod ratio.
If anyone is planning on building an LS/VTEC please drop me a line so I can atleast tell you a few of the ways to avoid the typical problems associated with the frankenstein motor.
Later,
Dan
P.S. I am currently trying to talk my boss out of a GSR block so I can stop having these problems...

[john]

Is ls vtec a variant on 'normal' vtec?

[DnVr]

Originally posted by john
Is ls vtec a variant on 'normal' vtec?
John, ls vtec is when they take the non vtec integra motor and slap a vtec head on it.
It makes more torque down low from what I've heard.

[B16crxTurbo]

Originally posted by DnVr

John, ls vtec is when they take the non vtec integra motor and slap a vtec head on it.
It makes more torque down low from what I've heard.

That's exactly it. The LS motor (1.8) provides better torque than the other B series motors (B16 or B18). The head from a vtec motor will sort of fit with minor modifications. Like Dan said though, there are some drawbacks. The CRV block (B20) is esentially the same thing, but a 2.0 instead.

[john]

Ok. Thanks for the explanation.

[Weston]

I know a guy that has a LS/VTEC will full internals. It's pretty damn quick, but I can very easily see and smell the oil coming out of his exhaust pipe. I have a white car, so I try to avoid being behind him, lol.

[Mr. NoSkills]

headgaskest fail often because 98% of the people doing this couldn't change oil, that goes for most of the shops as well. Take off those blown headgaskets and check out the fact that they all have the fucking little fucking o-rings on them which makes the head not seat. I'm sure this leads to the overheating problem.

Oiling is not a major problem. the ls/vtec done right means you use under piston squirters, they cost like what? $40 used? maybe another $40 in machine work?
b18a/b blocks arn't much cheaper then b18c1 blocks? oh wow. look around at how much a gsr shortblock costs. I've yeat to see on under $700, and most are in the $800-$900 range. That's just the shortblock. You can get a full ls longblock for that much. I got my ls shortblock for $175 local.


sure, rod stroke ratio is a big factor as well, and I agree, you don't have the best when working with the ls, but you have to realize that before you try and make an all motor, 9200+ rpm motor. I know plenty that have laster for a grip by just maintaining a stock gsr rev-limit.

if your gonna fuck around and not give a shit, the ls/vtec is not for you, but if you put some thought and/or effor into it, it'll work just fine.

That's kind of like making a list of why bolt on turbo kits suck.
How many morons bolt one on and are out their first night pushing all sorts of boost and end up blowing it? or blowing out ring lands and shit like that.

[MedliAWD]

Man...glad I bought a DSM :) Short 4G63 block = $125, turbo'd from the factory (oil squirters and all) and 2.0L.

Honestly don't know why you Honda guys go through it (mainly the civic people). Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" Hondas (ok maybe a little :) ) but the Civic is not, nor was every intended to be a sports car (hell, even a sports sedan).
Why somebody would pour litterally thousands of dollars into a car with the express purpose of "going fast" and running 14's?
Each to his own I guess :)


Shea
'97 Talon TSi AWD
'89 Conquest TSi

[Mr. NoSkills]

Originally posted by MedliAWD


Honestly don't know why you Honda guys go through it (mainly the civic people). Don't get me wrong, I don't "hate" Hondas (ok maybe a little :) ) but the Civic is not, nor was every intended to be a sports car (hell, even a sports sedan).
Why somebody would pour litterally thousands of dollars into a car with the express purpose of "going fast" and running 14's?
Each to his own I guess :)


Shea
'97 Talon TSi AWD
'89 Conquest TSi

maybe talk to the two 16g turbo'd 2nd gens out at taco bell, both running double digit boost (one of them runs like 24psi) and ask them how they like acurabro's, bone stock acura gsr that runs 8psi and runs dead even with them.

The only dsm's with room to talk are 1st gen's just because you can pick them up so cheap. For the cost of a 2nd gen you can have a hybrid civic on n2o which will smoke 90% of the shit on the road.

[MedliAWD]

Originally posted by tdjb-potc


maybe talk to the two 16g turbo'd 2nd gens out at taco bell, both running double digit boost (one of them runs like 24psi) and ask them how they like acurabro's, bone stock acura gsr that runs 8psi and runs dead even with them.


Sorry guy, if he's running 8psi on anything in that engine bay it is very far from "bone stock".

Second, double digit boost on any DSM is the standard (ie they came from the factory that way), so please don't use it as support for your arguement. If you don't understand why an unbuilt Honda engine "can only run" single digit boost and a 4G63 can run double digit boost, then you wouldn't understand the reasoning behind my previous post.

What I stated was my opinion and nothing else. It's your car, do with it and spend as much cash on it as you want.

I think "park bench" wings look gay on any car, as do clears. Type-R stickers are stupid (notice I didn't say "stock factory badges", ie your car came with them). And if you car sounds like my lawnmower at 10k rpm, I'll laugh at you. Now if you own a Honda or any other car for that matter, and none of the above applies to you, then great. If it does though, don't get too offended when we chuckle. :cool:

Shea
'97 Talon TSi AWD
'89 Conquest TSi

[forum]

hell yeah rice = ghey

MedliAWD how about bookshelf wings :D j/k

[MedliAWD]

Originally posted by forum
hell yeah rice = ghey

MedliAWD how about bookshelf wings :D j/k

hehe, any wing that you can seek shelter under during a storm is pretty bad :)

Shea
'97 Talon TSi AWD
'89 Conquest TSi

[tsitim]

I didn't know you can put a vtec head on a non vtec block thats something I've learned today

[forum]

Originally posted by MedliAWD


hehe, any wing that you can seek shelter under during a storm is pretty bad :)


that just sounds bad, hey its raining lets go hide under that spoiler :rofl:
and people put those things on hatch's too :eek:

[Mr. NoSkills]

It's not that I'm offended, but it's like everytime someone talks about honda they seem to just look at the rice side.

And by bone stock I mean no internals, no rods, no cams, etc.



Originally posted by MedliAWD


Sorry guy, if he's running 8psi on anything in that engine bay it is very far from "bone stock".

Second, double digit boost on any DSM is the standard (ie they came from the factory that way), so please don't use it as support for your arguement. If you don't understand why an unbuilt Honda engine "can only run" single digit boost and a 4G63 can run double digit boost, then you wouldn't understand the reasoning behind my previous post.

What I stated was my opinion and nothing else. It's your car, do with it and spend as much cash on it as you want.

I think "park bench" wings look gay on any car, as do clears. Type-R stickers are stupid (notice I didn't say "stock factory badges", ie your car came with them). And if you car sounds like my lawnmower at 10k rpm, I'll laugh at you. Now if you own a Honda or any other car for that matter, and none of the above applies to you, then great. If it does though, don't get too offended when we chuckle. :cool:

Shea
'97 Talon TSi AWD
'89 Conquest TSi

[mello4781]

I'm putting together an ls-vtec and I was just wondering what I needed to look out for so that my shit doesn't blow........money is not an issue, I just want it done right

www.mello4781@yahoo.com

[gjcivic]

If money isn't an issue, buy a dart b block and call it done...

on another note, maybe those wings are just to help avoid hail dammage...?.... :D

[B20civic]

start by not building an ls vtec......

[2000SiVTEC]

I mean no offense to acurabro, but are those DSM's in the kind of shape that the integra was in? I mean come on it has absoultely no interior, and plexi glass rear window. Fast it was, but I hardly consider that a really streetable car.......

[Dose3782]

Just found this forum, thought I'd drop a line or two....
I don't mean to piss in n e ones coca puffs, but the Ls/Vtec is an awsome setup when built by someone thats knows what they are doing. I mean don't get me wrong I really hate all the wings and the bullshit these kids are putting on hondas, but I won't deny what a good setup can do.
85% of most Ls/vtecs leak oil because they tap the oil line for vtec poorly. What most folks need to know is that any frank setup shouldnt be attempted by the unskilled. Machine work is machine work. No matter how little has to be done, it has to be done right.
Also on the r/s issue, they make decks for these setups to increase that. Theres many a good book on how to do it propperly. I'm not a machinist, but my engine builder is and a damn fine one. He has built 3 na Ls/vtecs now and they WILL send an 89-91 civic/crx down the quarter in mid 12's. Add in crower stage 2 cams, a dc sports 4-1 header, and a cold air, and you have one bad ass power plant. (built right that is) Tunning is the key folks. (still playing with port sizes a.t.m.)
As for the 8lbs of boost on stock internals on the b18a/b, its true. Theres a propperly built ls/vtec in a crx running round here that sprays a 100 shot, and has been now for a yr. thats about 5 lbs of boost... with the car still running strong.
I should have my new ls/vtec up and running in about another 4 months. I will post time slips on here on and off the bottle.
But its true, if you dont know what the fuck ur doing, then y do it? My whole ls/vtec setup with the basic bolt ons is running me less than 4gs and thats including the car. Sure ive got a machinist by my side, but come on, a fucking GSR block costs to much. Besides I can build a better engine for less money.
As for all the momma boy fuckers that are supportted by thier parents bank accounts, I hope that type-r sticker helps ya keep up with us big boys. and that wing keep ya on the ground when i blow by u sporting DX badges.
Long live the true tunners,
Long live the passion,
Long live the true Honda builder!

[taikahn]

Originally posted by Dose3782
... when i blow by u sporting DX badges.


My friend is putting a b16a2 out of a 2000 si into his 97 dx - plus cams and shit -- Ive been telling him, begging him, to put his DX badges back on after he does it.

I think he is putting in an ACT race/street clutch too. Should be a strong car.

I personally want to put a k24 (from the Acura TSX) in my ep, or maybe a k20a2 head and jun camshafts when they come out ... plus hondata. I think honda's, esp. the K series have a strong future ahead of them.

[cherrybombcivic]

k series, from what ive heard, its f-ing nuts.... we all know how well the b-series head flows so i dont have to go into it hear, but a guy by the name of eric aguilar was quoted as saying the k series heads flow 10 times better.. theres some guys running 14.1's with just the standard intake and exhaust in rsx type s' i think...
i think within 2 years if you want to stay honda, youre gonna have to buy a k series just to keep up. N/A of course.

[allmotor_civic]

A) I can't believe this thread is still alive.
B) LS/VTEC's still have no comparison to a GSR/PR3 (GSR block, B16 or Hype R Head) setup.
C) B Series motors are definately going to get replaced by the K Series stuff in the All Motor world (less than 2 years), just wait til Skunk2 debuts their DC5...
D) The K24 from a CRV is easily stuffed into a EP3, and the head from any K20A2 or K20A(R) is easily bolted on top, but the wiring is a pain in the arse. The TODA cams are already out and make quite a bit of power. The first K24/A2 I've seen (basically the setup from above with the TODA cams, INJEN cold air, Custom built headers (open), Power Enterprise's iVTEC controller, Injectors (?), a fuel pump (?), and a Hondata reflashed ECU) made 246whp on 100 octane.
E) LS/VTEC's are played out...and no Speed Image didn't build the first one.
Later,
Dan

[cherrybombcivic]

i dont think it matters if a motor is "played out". If it makes power, it makes power, right? By the way dan, im almost done with mine so wish me luck. i have the spent the extra time and got a ton of shit to hopefully prolong its life....

[allmotor_civic]

True power is power...and I do wish you luck. But, trust me the new bandwagon is Stroker motors. You'll see.
Good luck,
Dan

[cherrybombcivic]

ive heard nothing but bad things about stroker motors... the spoon kits,the jun kits, you name it... but, thats what everyone says about ls/vtec's too so until i actually touch one and it blows up, i got an open mind.

[railsldr]

Originally posted by MedliAWD
Second, double digit boost on any DSM is the standard (ie they came from the factory that way), so please don't use it as support for your arguement. If you don't understand why an unbuilt Honda engine "can only run" single digit boost and a 4G63 can run double digit boost, then you wouldn't understand the reasoning behind my previous post.

If you look at the difference between Honda and DSM motors you would see your reason for lower boost on Honda's. Honda motors have higher compression than many DSM's to my knowledge. This means they get more power from less boost but are also much harder to safely boost higher #'s. I have seen a Turbo H22 motor push 274 WHP @ 4 psi and close to 450 WHP at 18 psi. That car was tuned in Fort Collins. How many pounds of boost would a DSM need to push to reach those numbers. not a lot more but it is more due to the compression differences. By the way an H22 compression is 10.0 and is 190 HP stock.

[lsvtec-oni]

i think you guys are just haters cause you lose to lsvtecs.

you all know well and clear that the lsvtec has very great potential in the right hands and somebody who has the capability of knowing what they are doing.

i am not talking about some jackass who spends his money on a stock lsvtec and then puts a body kit and calls it a day.


my car has about 140k on it so far

i have had the lsvtec setup for about 80k
on all stock internals even the head gasket.

you are gonna tell me that 90% chance of blowing a head gasket that is absurd. i achieved 80k in three years mind you and i have blown nothing.

i dont know what kind of drivers you know that have these lsvtecs that blow up they must not drive right or they are just plain idiots.

i beat the shit out of my car day in and out and it does not even burn up any oil. i can change my oil in 3 months and never check the oil for that amount of time until it is due for its next oil change and it has lost virtually no oil my car is still full.

you should not advise people and tell them bad info just cause you are stuck with a slow ass gsr. it is not our fault.

and know not everybody out there is a fuking idiot.

you know what also i still have my stock oil and water pump on my car from my ls and i have never overheated my car in all its years also.

i do agree with you and i will be replacing my water pump and oil pump with a spoon one .

i dont know what else to say my proof is my own vehicle who runs very strong and well after all these years of abuse i gave it..
now i take much better care and it takes care of me.

everybody advised me not too and told me the same bullshit that my motor would not last 1 year and haahahah
i got the last laugh cause it has.
now adays 80k later on all stock shit with a fluidyne radiator and oil cooler.
my car is still good.
and i will be replacing with better shit in the near future..


so my final opinion is people against ls/vtec is bullshit.
i have had a normal almost stock lsvtec for 80k and not once have i had engine troubles or blown head gaskets.

just go to a good shop not a shady ass one.

i went to an expert on hondas and got a great job done on my car .
i have heard of other people who have had problems with their lsvtecs
but i think the nature of those probles is due the unskilled mechanics who did a bad installation and not the actual lsvtec wich you all blame as a scapegoat.


:mad:

[lsvtec-oni]

:confused:

i dont know shit about zc motors
but do any of you recommend them or have something to tell me please do so
i have a friedn who is considering doing a zc swap but he is going to turbocharge his zc but wich tranny would be better for a turbo zc??
he has a dx 5-speed civic hatch 94 model
eg.

i know the zc has diff gear ratios.

so wich d-series tranny would be best

or would it just be better to turbo his sohc dx
than to go the zc route

[fitchnpolo]

Okay I'm too lazy to read all these long-winded posts, but I just have one observation to share, and I apologize if it's been previously mentioned. The LS motor makes more stock torque somewhat because of a shorter RR but MOSTLY BECAUSE OF THE HEAD. If you know anything about toyota motors, compare FE and GE heads. FE heads create much more torque for a number of reasons. GE heads flow alot better and have a better topend. BUT IF YOU REPLACE THE HEAD THEN YOU LOOSE ALL OF THAT BENEFIT. Could someone explain to me why bother then? POWER IS MADE IN THE HEAD. Saying "this motor makes more lower end power so we'll keep it's block, but use our fancy rice VTEC for a head is pure stupidity. The part that makes the power is now sitting on the floor replaced with something else. The only thing you've changed from a regular vtec 1.8 is that you now have a worse rod ratio. CONGRATS!

[lsvtec-oni]

dude power is made due to the gain in displacement not much its something more than stock gsr and also has to do with the bigger stroke.

short stroke = tourqeless piece of shit

and that is something that i admit plauges the hondas.

but thats reality our cars have to rev up astranomically 8000 rpm to make some power and the ls/vtec is tourqey so we gain that attribute other b series vtecs dont have except the itr engine that is just a badass on its own.

[fitchnpolo]

As far as I know, every b18 has the same stroke/bore, but I could be wrong, and that would make a difference.

[lsvtec-oni]

there is a difference in strokes and and there is about 50 cc increase in displace ment

[fitchnpolo]

Fair enough, I stand corrected on that part of it.

Let me get this straight. The B18C is a superior block, but less superior in bottom end performance to the B18A/B. Placing a VTEC head on it creates a better flowing head with VTEC abilities on the torquier motor. Two questions:
1) Why the B16 head over B18C?
2) besides rotating pieces, how do the B18A/B blocks differ than the B18C?

[Mr. NoSkills]

Originally posted by fitchnpolo
Fair enough, I stand corrected on that part of it.

Let me get this straight. The B18C is a superior block, but less superior in bottom end performance to the B18A/B. Placing a VTEC head on it creates a better flowing head with VTEC abilities on the torquier motor. Two questions:
1) Why the B16 head over B18C?
2) besides rotating pieces, how do the B18A/B blocks differ than the B18C?

b16a head, out of the box, flows better then the gsr, that's about it. a gsr will give you like .2 more compression points though.

the b18c comes with stock under piston oil squirters as well as a stock girdle on the main caps. it also has a makeshift oil "cooler", not sure if the ls motors have those, they might though.
umm. higher flowing pumps (oil/water).

it's 4:30am, that's all i can think of for right now.

[fitchnpolo]

So why not put the strokier rotating assembly in the better block?

[cherrybombcivic]

well actually, people bump up the compression using type r pistons, some p&p the heads, like me, and actually the LS block displaces 34 more cc's than the gsr which is actually like 17xx cc's in reality. So i dont think its stupid at all. i dont know anything about toyota motors so i wont go there...

[cherrybombcivic]

shit i didnt even see these last few posts becuz i hit reply on fitchnpolos first comment... as for the b16 head flowing better... well, yes and no. b16 head flows better up top, gsr head flows better down low and does give about .2 more compression. I dont want to spend alot of time at high rpm's with my ls/vtec so i chose the gsr head and p&p'ed it.

You are right though, the cool thing to do would be just to bore out a gsr block to 2 liters, get some nice je pistons to bump up the compression to like, 12.1-12.5, tune it and run it like that. However ....

gsr block and head = $1200
machine work = $ 700
je pistons =$400
dyno time to tune = $180

vs.

LS Block = $200
b16 head = $600

and thats why ls/vtec is popular!!!

[lsvtec-oni]

you see so plain and simple we make lsvtec because it is more feasible and cost effective for me to spend 900$ to get vtec on my block than to spend 3500$ on just the complete gsr engine package. i do agree with the rest of you y in the hell would you go out of your way to make an lsvtec if you already have the gsr engine.
but like i stated it all boils down to feasability.

and that whole rod stroke bullshit i checked it out and there is hardly a difference btween the gsr and ls i dont agree that it is enough for the lot of you to argue on it.

The B18a/b has a low r/s ratio 1.53 which is not bad compared to the 1.58 of a gsr.

this is what i got off several websites

a minor .05 of difference not a whole lot for all of you to call an lsvtec shit.

if any of you guys want info and good accurate one check this site out on the lsvtec.
http://www.geocities.com/teampimports/lsvtec.html

also it is a fact the ls block has 42cc more and it has a bore and stroke
of 81mm bore and 89mm stroke
compared to the the gsr it is slightly larger stroke but again not by much.

I CONSIDER THE LSVTEC THE POOR MANS VTEC. LIKE MY SELF

AND NO THEY DO NOT BLOW UP AND THEY ARE NOT UNRELIABLE SHORT LIVED ENGINES I HAVE 80K AS AN LSVTEC AND 140K NOW TOTAL ON MY CAR WITH ALL STOCK INTERNALS INCLUDING WATER AND OIL PUMPS.

[lsvtec-oni]

hey i want some feedback and only from those that have ls/vtecs or are actually mechanically inclined.

any suggestions on what i should build up my bottom end with.

the crower stroker kits are very tempting but i do not feel comfortable increasing my bore to a drastic 87mm from a 81 stock mm. i would think that the cyl walls will be too thin also i have been advised not to push over 12 cr
and bore out no more than 1mm max.

but if any of you have i wold like to know your results and what you are using.

i was wondering if any of you have used toda pistons if so what size and what compression are you guys running.

and i also want to ask how do the ctr pistons feel in your lsvtec if you are using them, and how much of a gain did you actually get.

im just stuck at a crossroad here and dont really know wich one of these wold give me good gains but also i do not want to sacrifice my engines reliability being that this is a daily driver.

i would appreciate any help you guys can give me.

[cherrybombcivic]

Youre not gonna find much help here dude, i swear this whole board is against ls/vtecs....

[lsvtec-oni]

because they are idiots and dont know shit about real mechanics.

[CXhatchboy520]

Ok, about the whole "supported by parent's bank accounts thing", that really fuckin pissed me off:mad:. So fuckin what if im supported by them. I dont slap the type-R stickers on my car, i will probably still have the CX stickers on when i am done boosting it. Quit listening to everyone's gay-ass stereotypes and take it from someone who knows.

[Mr. NoSkills]

Originally posted by lsvtec-oni
because they are idiots and dont know shit about real mechanics.

you know, i was going to go through and cover each question you had, with detail, but after seeing the above post, it's not even worth it.
there are a few people on here that would run circles around you when it comes to honda engines.
and after reading the post, it kind of shows that your just looking for spoon feeding.
so instead, here is the short, asshole mode reply:

who in their right mind is going to fucking bore out stock sleeves to 87mm? there is no way on a b18a/b that would even come close to working.

daily driver + stroker kit? wtf?

asking what gains you get from pistons is a pointless because every setup is different.
someone who builds their lsvtec with ctr slugs and has maybe jun 2's and an v-afc is going to gain more then someone who just drops them in.



and no, not everyone on this board is anti ls-vtec. i can think of at least 5 people off the top of my head that have/had them and i know at least 3 of them built the motors in their garage so they have at least that much skill. a lot of people just hear about all the bad shit, but nobody ever hears the good shit.
do a search, you'll find good info here i'm sure of it.
and stop trying to act like such a fucking badass, just sit back and relax man.

[cherrybombcivic]

ok hes right, im guilty. MOST people on here are anti ls/vtec...

[25vtec]

ls vtec, hehe, ls/vtecs are purdy yeah, and piss the shit out of you. any guy that took the time to rip apart his motor deserves more respect than people that send their shit off to get done for them, lsvtec, pretty difficult from what i hear, but thats the internet, full of misinformation. anyway im all for the guys that do it, they are the true racers that would rather spend the rest of their money putting more in. first reply/post, so dont put the "kick me" sign on me. thanks

[cherrybombcivic]

if you really believe what you put in your sig, judging by your Username, youre fucking around with the wrong motors :)

[lsvtec-oni]

i know and good amount of info and i just want some feedback on what some other people are trying and no shit everybody's shit is diff. but i just want some feedback on what people tried out. and hey i really would like to keep it a daily driver but that is not the complete case
if i have to sacrifice in the end i will.
so u chill out dude
and i dont really give a shit about who u know.
i said those people are idiots who just keep saying bad shit when they are in no positoin to say anything. the sad thing is half of these fuks dont really know how a engine really works so they shoulnt talk shit.

and if you have a prob about me asking others that do know i would like to learn from their experinces and mistakes as i would do the same if anybody asked me.

so u chill the fuk out

and fuk u i didnt ask u to reply and bitch if you dont want to help then fuk off what do i care.

[Mr. NoSkills]

Originally posted by lsvtec-oni
i know and good amount of info and i just want some feedback on what some other people are trying and no shit everybody's shit is diff. but i just want some feedback on what people tried out. and hey i really would like to keep it a daily driver but that is not the complete case
if i have to sacrifice in the end i will.
so u chill out dude
and i dont really give a shit about who u know.
i said those people are idiots who just keep saying bad shit when they are in no positoin to say anything. the sad thing is half of these fuks dont really know how a engine really works so they shoulnt talk shit.

and if you have a prob about me asking others that do know i would like to learn from their experinces and mistakes as i would do the same if anybody asked me.

so u chill the fuk out

and fuk u i didnt ask u to reply and bitch if you dont want to help then fuk off what do i care.

you expect people to come on here and help your ass out when you call all of them fucking idiots?
are you retarded?
that's like me walking up to you, first time I've ever met you, and saying "hey bro, can you lend me some cash you dumb fucking cunt?". what would your reaction be?

[cherrybombcivic]

id be all "well young man, i was going to give you some money. But you called me an un-intelligent member of the female anatomy". Then id probably cave in and lend you some cash.

[25vtec]

excuse me cheery bomb, dont assume anything, i say no replacement for displacement because i sent my h23 22 vtec to dpr and got it back as a 2.5 liter. as i said i wont mess with b16 or 18s cause i love my torque.

[cherrybombcivic]

cheery bomb, huh? nice.
whats an h23 22 vtec? is that a h23 with an h22 head?
2.5 liters huh? how much did that cost ya? Better get some good tires with that setup so you dont just spin your tires all day as i ride past you on my huffy.

[25vtec]

mr. cherrybomb,yes its a 23 with 22 head. it cost about $1800 from dpr east, and with that 1800 they deburred and ported the head, did a 3 angle valve job and inserted titanium sleeves. and for the extra displacement, the head work could not account for that, a toda crankshaft freed some and im at 2.5, so do you now understand whata 25vtec is?

and for the tires, its irrelevant what the size of your engine, for all you know i can be running an auto with 13" bogarts and cruise all day(which i dont). so dont make some stupid comment trying to look like you know what you are talking about. Cause from your reading your post i can see you dont know much

[cherrybombcivic]

ouch you sting me with your words. well if ur ever in cali, hit me up and we can see who doesnt know shit.

[lsvtec-oni]

to tdjb or what ever the fuk your u call your bitch ass. i only call the people in here a fuking idiots if they talk shit and dont know nuthing or ever even touched a fuking engine.
now why if the fuking world would i want to ask somebody like that advice or suggestions.
i guess you are just a fuking idiot thats all.
i am just here to stand up for the true heads who know their shit and have actual experince and good knowledge
especailly regarding lsvtec's because i hate the fuking idiots who say something that is complete and utter bull shit.

ill help out with what ever info i have to anybody here that has an interest in lsvtecs and i am doing my reaserch and locating parts that will shut up these gsr fags who call an lsvtec crap.
and if u dont talk stupid shit about lsvtecs and u know your shit then thats word u got my respect.

here is something that might interest a few of you since we all know that the block girdle on the ls block is not as great as the other vtec engines and that is a fact so i found this part from this website that sells block girdles for lsvtecs. and now u no longer need to worry about the ls weak ass girdle and they do sell it for the gsr also i belive.

the website is http://www.z10eng.com/index2.cfm
click the products link at the bottom of the page since they do have construction one the website.

the company is z10 motorsports and here is some info from their site

CR Vtec / LS Vtec & GSR / Type R Block Girdle
Kit Fits: 1990+ B18B/B18A 90+ B16/92+B17A/96+ B20Z/B20B & 1994-2001 Integra B18C
Part # : Z10-2001 & Z10-2002 - $289.00

* Strengthens main bearing caps
* Keeps block rigid at high RPM
* Safely use LS/Vtec's Potential
* CNC Machined
* Billet Aluminum

No modification to the caps necessary
[ completely bolt-on ]

NEEDS!
*GS-R / Type R
Main Bolts, Windage Tray, Oil pump pickup, Oil Tray all contained within Part #Z10-2020
(not included)


Z10's Block Girdle bolts directly to the block, strengthening the main webbing by tying the caps together. Made of billet 6061T6 aluminum, and CNC machined, Z10's block girdle is designed to withstand the pressures of high-performance engines, ensuring you with a safer, stronger, and more stable engine. Z10 also offers a shot-peened version of it's original block girdle which engineers in all facets of design have determined that shot-peening greatly reduces stress in metal alloys and increases tensile strength on rendered surfaces.

Description Pricing
Z10-2001 Block Girdle $289.00
Z10-2001 Block Girdle Shot Peened $317.00
Z10-2002 GSR Block Girdle $289.00
Z10-2002 GSR Block Girdle Shot Peened $317.00

[Mr. NoSkills]

hey, thanks for the showing me who knows their shit.

oh yeah, thanks for the z10 info. it's funny, i remember when those came out about a fucking year ago.
not to mention the fact that just bolting them on is pointless.
you're going to need the dowel pins (like a stock gsr setup) machined and installed in them to do any good.
but thanks for the heads up.

[Slava]

25vtec did you notice the difference when you bored the block out and how much of a difference?

[cherrybombcivic]

Originally posted by 25vtec

and for the tires, its irrelevant what the size of your engine,

so youre saying engine output should have no bearing on tire/suspension selection?

[allmotor_civic]

Um, yep, I realize that I should mention right about now that I had an LS/VTEC for about 20,000miles...daily driven. I liked it, but even with a ported head, CTR cams and pistons, and tuning, it never made more than a stock ITR with I/H/E. Basically, a set of CTR pistons should take you from the 145-ish or so whp your at now and raise it to about 156 or so (with tuning). Not too bad considering.
But, seriously, lay off the pre-pubesent profanity...it has it's place, but you could make a sailor blush, lsvtec-oni. I'm trying to hate on all of you that have the motor, but for the money of a head gasket, hydro tranny, LS block, flywheel, clutch, B16 head, P30 ECU, axles, and shift linkage. You could have almost gotten a B18C swap that is a bit more reliable. DONE.
Anyway, stroker motors a totally daily drive-able. I am driving my 2.1 liter GSR every day on 13.5:1. Although, I tend to hop on my Kawi ZX-6R more often then I jump in the Allmotor Monstar for longer drives, I still drive it. In fact I should be tuning it later today, so we'll see if I can get close to the 250 whp (SAE) mark...
Later,
Dan...

[Mark_H]

For your all-motor and LS/VTEC needs/questions please contact and listen to dan(allmotor-civic). He has physically tried every imaginable all-motor combo out there and can give you real-world information on all the different options.
Thanks.
M

[SleeperZ]

Originally posted by lsvtec-oni
to tdjb or what ever the fuk your u call your bitch ass. i only call the people in here a fuking idiots if they talk shit and dont know nuthing or ever even touched a fuking engine.
now why if the fuking world would i want to ask somebody like that advice or suggestions.
i guess you are just a fuking idiot thats all.
i am just here to stand up for the true heads who know their shit and have actual experince and good knowledge
especailly regarding lsvtec's because i hate the fuking idiots who say something that is complete and utter bull shit.

Fuk.....:rolleyes:

I sure am glad my engine doesn't need a GIRDLE :eek: sounds like something a woman would wear...

[THRICE]

Okay smart guy (lsvtec-oni),

If LsVtecs are so fucking rad how come they sell for a few nickles and a pack of gum? Howcome they are ALWAYS known for their constant problems with oil? Why aren't they a popular swap as much as the B16 and B18's when they cost less than both? Because of one reason my friend...

They are the worst Honda motor ever built when it comes to reliability and High end.

[cherrybombcivic]

They get a bad rap because they are as varied as the skill level of those who are peicing them together. Some ls/vtec's are shit, but some are bad ass... You always hear bad things like oil problems because humans in general focus on the negative aspects of things and theyre more interesting to read about how a guy blew up his ls/vtec than it is when a guy comes in and posts his times and hp figures and then everyone calls b.s. and he doesnt wanna post anything anymore.

and allmotor civic as far as ls/vtecs putting out 145-150hp, id be surprised as hell to see mine pump that out. have u checked out any dyno charts on importreview.com? theres some ls/vtecs making over 200hp with and some in the 170-180hp range with similar mods to what you listed.

[Mr. NoSkills]

Originally posted by cherrybombcivic

and allmotor civic as far as ls/vtecs putting out 145-150hp, id be surprised as hell to see mine pump that out. have u checked out any dyno charts on importreview.com? theres some ls/vtecs making over 200hp with and some in the 170-180hp range with similar mods to what you listed.

my friends ls/vtec with pr3 pistons and tobi at the cam gears and v-afc put out like 158-9 max and 155 with a good everydya, safe tune. i think that's what the numbers were at least.
most of the motors jeff builds are out in cali so he can run more compression out of them, unlike here where 12:1 will probably get you a hefty gas bill everytime you fill up with 101 hehe.

[cherrybombcivic]

well im out in cali and ill be running 11.1:1 compression and i sure as hell bet on making 170+ hp. I wouldnt build this motor if i was gonna put down 150. id buy a b16.

[djet820]

what would be a good compression for colorado sprigns then?

[cherrybombcivic]

i have no idea seeing as how im not there and ive never been there. but from what i understand, the best compression is to lower it to about 9:1 then turbo the motor...

[djet820]

oh ok, so 9:1. 9:1 even without the turbo? Cause boost is going to be in about 2 months or so.

[cherrybombcivic]

if its only gonna be about 2 months i would go with like a 9:1 compression ratio but thats me. if you were gonna go all motor i would go higher, but if its only gonna be 2 months why bother...

[djet820]

hrmm alright thanks.

[LsVtecTurbo]

I would have to say the new K series Honda or Acura Engines are SUck, if you think it will make more HP then the B series then wait till you empty your Pocket and see how much HP you can make out of that K series engine.True, the B series are play out, but wait untill it fly by you in your new flashy K series engine car. Spoon Sports is know for one of the best Honda tunning for the new K series engines, and they spend $30g on the new JDM ITR K series engine and they juice out less than 300bhps. Man That's shitty! I build my LS/Vtec from a B20 block, JG Titanium piston, ITR Tranny with Kaaz LSD. A JDM ITR Head, Skunk2 Stage 2 Cam, JDM P28 Hondata chipped and tune, a Custom Build Top Fuel Turbo charger with 8lbs of boost. Wooola a 355bhp@7,500rpm on the Dyno (@355bhps no need to rev it up more!). NOT to be a hater, but I can beat any freaking new K Series Engines, I don't fucking care if you got your new greddy or HKS turbo kits. LS/VTEC IS OLD, BUT HEY! THAT'S WHAT JUST PASS YOU ON THE STREET, NO ONEs COMPLAIN IF YOUR SHIT IS TOO SLOW! JUST YOU!

[LsVtecTurbo]

boost your LS VTEC!

[LsVtecTurbo]

1/4 track in low 12s.....( I was really close to 11s) I will try to post a pictures of the time slip and on the dyno jet.

[exciv2000]

if you have3 a B20 block, you have a CRVtec, not an LS/Vtec. duh.

[stu]

LSVETC Turbo: I have a couple of requests here. One, all your posts could have been one. Two, learn what you are talking about, you aren't even using an LS block. And three, learn what you are talking about, Spoon has to pay for all the intial research and development of those engines. Do you think they just go to Summitracing.com and order parts from them? Please get a clue.

And four, this thread is four months old!

[djet820]

LSVETC Turbo: I have a couple of requests here. One, all your posts could have been one. Two, learn what you are talking about, you aren't even using an LS block. And three, learn what you are talking about, Spoon has to pay for all the intial research and development of those engines. Do you think they just go to Summitracing.com and order parts from them? Please get a clue.

And four, this thread is four months old!


I have one request from you stu.

Learn your math, it's 3 months old.:P

[CXhatchboy520]

Wow, LSvtecturbo, looks like you have some problems. Ever learned how to type?



http://ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu6.jpg

[cherrybombcivic]

haha, that yoda pic is aweomse.

[94lude]

hey 25vtec, do u know the measurements of your bore and stroke because I'm wanting to do the same thing with my motor, also have you had any problems with those titanium sleeves cause I've heard titanium doesn't last when exposed to combustion conditions, like when titanium spring stretch after so long , and like when titanium shrink and break off in your cylinder after so long, let me know your thoughts on the subject as well as those measurements.
chris

[94lude]

when i said titanium shrinking i was talking about the valves by the way

[Moe]

Like what no skills said, if you build it right, it will last long.
the 2nd one ever built still running strong till today and passes emissions too.




230whp stock b20z block with a milled gsr head aftermarket cams and bolt ons. Omniman is the man and father of LS/VTEC. If you dont know who omniman is then you dont know ls/vtec.

[caklinger]

[QUOTE=Moe]Like what no skills said, if you build it right, it will last long.
the 2nd one ever built still running strong till today and passes emissions too.





I'd have to agree with Moe, if you have the right person build or you build it correctly, your ls/vtec can last for who knows how long. Moe can back me up on this one, I have had mine for three years and it runs extremely well, and I never had any problems with the head gasket or any of my internals go bad.

[blazensol04]

Well it seems to me not many people understand how to build a ls-vtec, they are very strong and potent motors if built right (keyword). everyone thinks its a cheap motor, and can be if not much money is spent, replace internals with after market and the motor will do fine, specially after break-in point is reached. plus if it overheats, put the radiator fan on a switch and dont mistreat it, only get on it if u are racing. Its also a good motor for tuners and people that do swaps on daily basis for hobbie. The long stroke is what makes this motor great. dont hate for what u dont know. keep it real

[LsVtecGirl]

allmotor civic and I both had all our ls/vtecs built by pfi and I would say that brent and bill defnitally know what they are doing. Its not their fault the motor has poor oil distribution.

[blazensol04]

what was used to distribute oil?

[LsVtecGirl]

You would have an external oil line run from the back of the block to the head.

[Brent L]

It is a fact they have an oiling problem..but it is manely do to the unfiltered oil that you
run to the hed..The new golden eagle filter design helps this greatly..but it can be a good motor for an enthusiast on the side..I'm doing it no for myself but i simply did a set of cams that eliminated v-tec so theres no oil line...just a lot of lift..
Brent

[cHRISIR22]

It is a fact they have an oiling problem..but it is manely do to the unfiltered oil that you
run to the hed..The new golden eagle filter design helps this greatly..but it can be a good motor for an enthusiast on the side..I'm doing it no for myself but i simply did a set of cams that eliminated v-tec so theres no oil line...just a lot of lift..
Brent

well as a newbie I am not gonna waste my time arguing with you anyone with this or that...but I just built and LS/VTEC and about the only real problems I had was spark knock..due to running lean. I can vouch for the fact these motors are tempermental as hell but again it's all in the builder.

1995 LS B18B block, crank, and rods
1992 JDM SIR p30 Head, manifold, and ECU
99 JDM CTR pistons (PCT) pistons
obd1 jumper (homemade!)

I can vouch that things have to be perfect for these motors to put down the power. But let me remind those of you saying they will only make 150-160 HP at the flywheel...that is wrong... My close to stock (almost no bolt ons) LS/VTEC out ran a GSR powered SI. The SI had the SKUNK2 intake manifold, OBD1 jumper w ECU, DC sports headers, a full apex1 N1 Catback, a stage III clutch and a lightened flywheel...so again read some dynos..my was mildly build and it made atleast 160+ to the wheels

I Am about to have the block bored to 81.25 and nab me some lower CR pistons this time... add some fuel and maybe the squiters of my B16 block...

If oil was an issue as far as pressure There is a "oil contorl orifice" n the rar of all these motors, not to sure if the plug was in place on my b16 but I checkd my b18b for it when i pulled the head off..Some research may help..?

[B20civic]

if ls/vtec was the god of motors, honda would have thought of this 'technology' if you can even call that crap technology.


ls/vtec sucks.

[cherrybombcivic]

so does being ignorant.

Turbo sucks too, cuz honda doesnt produce any cars with them, so they must suck.

[B20civic]

so does being ignorant.

Turbo sucks too, cuz honda doesnt produce any cars with them, so they must suck.
shut up.




i'm not ignorant, just right.

[cherrybombcivic]

youre not right, just horribly grotesque.

[redline619]

im new in here but it seems the same sh!t every where...dsm has alot of potential if built right but the tranny needs it to.... honda is an all motor company that pulls more hp per ltr than any company out there.... example: 2.0 240hp to the fly wheel stock and really restricted for usdm market.... im not bad mouthing dsms but from my expirience they need to be built alil more to be relyable when boosted in to the higher numbers like 20 psi....i have a friend that was running 11's in an old 91' gsx but also had 7 tranny's and 4 blocks that were preaty toasty in his garage.... one good thing about honda k20 motors , is that it is all new and has more potencial than the b series motors... dont think honda built a new motor with out aplying its racing r&d to it. it is the future in hondas racing program.... boost wise look at www.cybernationmotorsports.com

[Mr. NoSkills]

honda's racing program?
like what?
they dropped out of cart and i've yet to see any decent teams in f1 using their motors. honda has made me angry the last few years.

[redline619]

true but im talking about there research and development for honda racing... where do you think this technology is coming from??? space :rolleyes:

[Skaterkid]

Dollar for dollar, a DSM will kill a Honda in any form of racing.

[Weston]

honda's racing program?
like what?
they dropped out of cart and i've yet to see any decent teams in f1 using their motors. honda has made me angry the last few years.

Honda is still heavily involved in racing, especially the kind that involves their production vehicles. They have been with RealTime Racing for years, and they have some involvement in every type of SCCA racing, except for maybe Rally. And I'm sure there is a lot more that they are doing that I'm not even aware of.


Dollar for dollar, a DSM will kill a Honda in any form of racing.

Try autocross or road course racing. There are a ton of Hondas and very few DSMs. Besides, racing isn't about who saved the most money, it's about who wins.

[Skaterkid]

The DSM guys are mostly draggers, but I think a 2nd gen, or a well setup 1st gen will be pretty good as an autoxer, or a good road racer.

But when you only have so much to spend Weston, don't you want to get the most out of your money?

[Weston]

I'm not talking about what Joe Ricer decides to race. I'm talking about what the guys who are serious use. Joe Ricer doesn't get involved in road racing, and it costs a lot of money no matter what car you use. The purchase price and cost of power mods are pretty insignificant, and power isn't all that important on a road course anyway.

DSM's tend to blow up because of oil starvation. This is pretty well known, and I've even seen it happen for myself. It's not that hard to fix (ie baffled oil pan), but I think it's pretty shitty when you have to mod a stock car just so it wont blow up.

As for autocross, power really doesn't matter all that much, and too much power can easily hold you back. There are some DSMs that autocross, but not many and it's more about the driver than the car.

[xmerklex]

big block chevys dont have vtec problems...

[SleeperZ]

big block chevys dont have vtec problems...

And they don't fit in Hondas either. Was there a point?

[Mr. NoSkills]

Honda is still heavily involved in racing, especially the kind that involves their production vehicles. They have been with RealTime Racing for years, and they have some involvement in every type of SCCA racing, except for maybe Rally. And I'm sure there is a lot more that they are doing that I'm not even aware of.




Try autocross or road course racing. There are a ton of Hondas and very few DSMs. Besides, racing isn't about who saved the most money, it's about who wins.

being involved is one thing, developing is another.
from what i've read all honda does is give realtime money and a name, they're in charge of everything else. i was under the impression that was it, they weren't actually using idea's or information from any racing in their motors or to help come up with some new shit.
i'm sure i'm off though.

[Skaterkid]

big block chevys dont have vtec problems...
Yeah, they've got problems all their own.

[blazensol04]

DSM can suck some balls. Hondas technology is way better than any DSM, i was thinkin of getting a DSM but then i asked myself.....WHY? the only thing that sounds better than a DOHC VTEC scream is a ferrari turbo'd. And this is a LS-VTEC compain not a damn pos unreliable DSM Campain. b20civic hit me up on AOL, peace.

[LeonZ]

the only thing that sounds better than a DOHC VTEC scream is a ferrari turbo'd.

:o ;Slap:

[Skaterkid]

DSM can suck some balls. Hondas technology is way better than any DSM, i was thinkin of getting a DSM but then i asked myself.....WHY? the only thing that sounds better than a DOHC VTEC scream is a ferrari turbo'd. And this is a LS-VTEC compain not a damn pos unreliable DSM Campain. b20civic hit me up on AOL, peace.
You can have your nice sound, but I'll still prefer having a car that drives all 4 wheels rather than the wrong ones. Plus factory turbo makes modding rather easy.

[stu]

Yea if sound is all your concerned about, just buy GT4.

Come to think about it, the only thing lamer than buying a car for how it sounds, is buying a car for the stereo it has.

[TheKing549]

[B] this is all bullshit i did the ls vtec on my integra, i dyno before and after the v-tec i gain 150bhp, yeah thats right 150bhp, i'm taking the new rx8 but cant take the rx7 because there faster, i have all the dyno papers.... beat that

[blazensol04]

The best thin i have found latly is a JUN kit that bores a b18c out to 2000cc, which would prolly run with a b20vtec if not ou run it, what kind of pistons did u use on it? that might have a bit to deal with the output u are getting from the motor, how much torque?

[blazensol04]

oh ya and if u need 4wd to beat someone, u needa learn to drive, mr DSM

[cherrybombcivic]

4wd drive gets a better launch with equal drivers every time. Its not about 'learning how to drive' . its about physics. Get your head out of your ass.

[cherrybombcivic]

u needa learn to drive


and you needa learn to spell. man that was too easy.

[stu]

Haha, sick 'em Steve.

[blazensol04]

well since u think ur damn AWD DSM is so better than FWD, ima post my race against a GSX on 15 lb of boost against my all motor del sol. 2 car lengths, and what u mean "spell" bitch, DSM all wheel drives are trash and always be trash.

[Skaterkid]

Oh yes, and Honda's are god. Please, go back to your hole troll. And for that last comment you get thehttp://www.excessvelocity.com/pictures/assclown.jpg

Oh and just cause the other guy didn't know it was a race doesn't make it a kill.

[SleeperZ]

well since u think ur damn AWD DSM is so better than FWD, ima post my race against a GSX on 15 lb of boost against my all motor del sol. 2 car lengths, and what u mean "spell" bitch, DSM all wheel drives are trash and always be trash.

What "GSX" are you talking about? The FWD version? :rofl:

[booster]

You know, I only read the last page of posts, but I can say your cute little all-motor del Slo didn't beat out a GSX running 15 psi. A GSX running that much boost with a bad cylinder would still cream you, and with 2 toasted he'd still give you a run for your money.

Chris

[Moe]

You know, I only read the last page of posts, but I can say your cute little all-motor del Slo didn't beat out a GSX running 15 psi. A GSX running that much boost with a bad cylinder would still cream you, and with 2 toasted he'd still give you a run for your money.

Chris

Actually, I beat a talon TSI on 16psi with intake/exhaust/downpipe some other stuff also, with my previous 94 Integra LS 2dr with a itr bottom end and a b16 head with some head work done and ctr cams with the rest of the bolt ons.

[blazensol04]

:fu: i dont see why u think DSM are the shit, they are worthless japan rip offs

[Skaterkid]

Because they come with AWD

[stu]

:fu: i dont see why u think DSM are the shit, they are worthless japan rip offs

What the fuck are you talking about now?

[rotaryEX7]

:fu: i dont see why u think DSM are the shit, they are worthless japan rip offs

Yeah they are, and you are RETARDED-- ;NutKick;

[cherrybombcivic]

wow this thread has really gotten off topic.

[blazensol04]

last time i checked ls vtec didnt go into POS DSM's so back to the ls/vtec campain, cause im tired of everyone thinkin they know n e thing about DSM, if u think they are so bad ass, read reviews on carreview.com and not on a damn ls/vtec campain

[stu]

Someone give me a reason not to ban this guy right now, just based on principle.

And about your sig, it should read, "A 4-cylinder never sounded beefy, ever."

[David]

:fu: i dont see why u think DSM are the shit, they are worthless japan rip offs
If you get right down to it every import is an American ripoff

what do you have against DSMs anyways? My DSM was faster stock than my Honda will probably ever be.

[blazensol04]

If you get right down to it every import is an American ripoff

what do you have against DSMs anyways? My DSM was faster stock than my Honda will probably ever be.

alright, imports are domestic rip off eh? lets see here, Zetech, ecotech, and im sure there are some more, but i dont see why u hate on hondas, i liked DSM's a little bit until i started building honda motors, i dont see putting a pea shooter turbo upgrade on a DSM and calling it quits. w/e ya'll have on hondas, know ur crap before you start talkin it, and no stock DSM could ever beat a crx with a stock b16. I couldnt give less of a crap what any DSM lover has to say about hondas, ppl are just pissed off when a damn 4-banger can have the avantage over america "muscle" :werd:

[Skaterkid]

alright, imports are domestic rip off eh? lets see here, Zetech, ecotech, and im sure there are some more, but i dont see why u hate on hondas, i liked DSM's a little bit until i started building honda motors, i dont see putting a pea shooter turbo upgrade on a DSM and calling it quits. w/e ya'll have on hondas, know ur crap before you start talkin it, and no stock DSM could ever beat a crx with a stock b16. I couldnt give less of a crap what any DSM lover has to say about hondas, ppl are just pissed off when a damn 4-banger can have the avantage over america "muscle" :werd:
So what's to stop the DSM owner from turning up the boost. Hondas make good cars, so are DSM's. But niether are the end all be all to performance. I prefer a DSM cause I don't like FWD and the engine is built to withstand high boost much better than a Honda engine.

[stu]

alright, imports are domestic rip off eh? lets see here, Zetech, ecotech, and im sure there are some more, but i dont see why u hate on hondas, i liked DSM's a little bit until i started building honda motors, i dont see putting a pea shooter turbo upgrade on a DSM and calling it quits. w/e ya'll have on hondas, know ur crap before you start talkin it, and no stock DSM could ever beat a crx with a stock b16. I couldnt give less of a crap what any DSM lover has to say about hondas, ppl are just pissed off when a damn 4-banger can have the avantage over america "muscle" :werd:


*Sigh* I think you are on the wrong board. Please leave.

[12seccivy]

So what's to stop the DSM owner from turning up the boost. Hondas make good cars, so are DSM's. But niether are the end all be all to performance. I prefer a DSM cause I don't like FWD and the engine is built to withstand high boost much better than a Honda engine.

Ditto that!
I have a pretty quick Honda and lost to an AWD DSM. So I have repect for what they are.. they can be made into some FAST cars.
But all in all,with the right amount of money any car can be quick...
SHOW SOME RESPECT!!

[Shaggy]

no stock DSM could ever beat a crx with a stock b16.


Maybe if your talking about the neon powered n/a DSMs. Also, take your own advice, you sure talk a lot of shit about dsm while complaining that everyone talks shit about honda.

[Bryson]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it, all you anit-LS/VTEC pussies! :fu:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=834282

Anyone who talks shit about the LS/VTEC is either:

a) has no idea what they are talking about
b) does not know what the fuck they are doing
c) to much of a pussy to build one

[Mark_H]

Put this in your pipe and smoke it, all you anit-LS/VTEC pussies! :fu:

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=834282

Anyone who talks shit about the LS/VTEC is either:

a) has no idea what they are talking about
b) does not know what the fuck they are doing
c) to much of a pussy to build one

The originator of this post(almost 2 years ago) actually knows more about LS/VTEC then alot of people. He had all the time and $$ in the world to throw at his many LS/VTEC setups back in the day.
Now a built LS/VTEC turbo setup is apples and oranges compared to what the intial rant/gripe post was all about.
Just FYI since I know the guy well.
M

[Bryson]

The originator of this post(almost 2 years ago) actually knows more about LS/VTEC then alot of people. He had all the time and $$ in the world to throw at his many LS/VTEC setups back in the day.
Now a built LS/VTEC turbo setup is apples and oranges compared to what the intial rant/gripe post was all about.
Just FYI since I know the guy well.
M

The main reason why I posted that is because there are still those people that doubt the LS/VTEC potential. That is yet again, more proof that those capabilities are true, and legit.

[cherrybombcivic]

not taking sides or anything, ;) , but thats one fuckin powerful motor

[phil]

bryson: is that your engine? if so that is fucking nice....

and i just read through the last half of the thread, and it is funny as hell. stupid fucking trolls.

[Bryson]

bryson: is that your engine? if so that is fucking nice....

and i just read through the last half of the thread, and it is funny as hell. stupid fucking trolls.

Nope not my engine. I'm shooting for around 500hp this summer (B18C however).

[DPGC44]

First off there is nothing wrong with other people that pay to get their stuff done on their engines. Just b/c they want to get their done right and not a fucking hack jobs like I've seen on these streets Some people do have to work real hard and full time to pay for the stuff that they get.... And I do agree that the I am on the "mommy or Daddy" loan dept is bullshit. Just a little jealously that's all :fu:




to tdjb or what ever the fuk your u call your bitch ass. i only call the people in here a fuking idiots if they talk shit and dont know nuthing or ever even touched a fuking engine.
now why if the fuking world would i want to ask somebody like that advice or suggestions.
i guess you are just a fuking idiot thats all.
i am just here to stand up for the true heads who know their shit and have actual experince and good knowledge
especailly regarding lsvtec's because i hate the fuking idiots who say something that is complete and utter bull shit.

ill help out with what ever info i have to anybody here that has an interest in lsvtecs and i am doing my reaserch and locating parts that will shut up these gsr fags who call an lsvtec crap.
and if u dont talk stupid shit about lsvtecs and u know your shit then thats word u got my respect.

here is something that might interest a few of you since we all know that the block girdle on the ls block is not as great as the other vtec engines and that is a fact so i found this part from this website that sells block girdles for lsvtecs. and now u no longer need to worry about the ls weak ass girdle and they do sell it for the gsr also i belive.

the website is http://www.z10eng.com/index2.cfm
click the products link at the bottom of the page since they do have construction one the website.

the company is z10 motorsports and here is some info from their site

CR Vtec / LS Vtec & GSR / Type R Block Girdle
Kit Fits: 1990+ B18B/B18A 90+ B16/92+B17A/96+ B20Z/B20B & 1994-2001 Integra B18C
Part # : Z10-2001 & Z10-2002 - $289.00

* Strengthens main bearing caps
* Keeps block rigid at high RPM
* Safely use LS/Vtec's Potential
* CNC Machined
* Billet Aluminum

No modification to the caps necessary
[ completely bolt-on ]

NEEDS!
*GS-R / Type R
Main Bolts, Windage Tray, Oil pump pickup, Oil Tray all contained within Part #Z10-2020
(not included)


Z10's Block Girdle bolts directly to the block, strengthening the main webbing by tying the caps together. Made of billet 6061T6 aluminum, and CNC machined, Z10's block girdle is designed to withstand the pressures of high-performance engines, ensuring you with a safer, stronger, and more stable engine. Z10 also offers a shot-peened version of it's original block girdle which engineers in all facets of design have determined that shot-peening greatly reduces stress in metal alloys and increases tensile strength on rendered surfaces.

Description Pricing
Z10-2001 Block Girdle $289.00
Z10-2001 Block Girdle Shot Peened $317.00
Z10-2002 GSR Block Girdle $289.00
Z10-2002 GSR Block Girdle Shot Peened $317.00

[stu]

I never saw the post that you quoted DPCG44, but that guy sounds like a real dickbag.

[Dose3782]

I never saw the post that you quoted DPCG44, but that guy sounds like a real dickbag.

If you are speaking of the post in which I said I hate seeing (and having to listen to) kids that didnt pay shit because thier parents bought it all it was me. Now if your calling me a dickbag then I would have to put you in the clueless fuck dept. So fuck you little kids that your parents give you what you want and pay for your crap. It's kids like you that build crappy setups that inturn fail and then are ragged on about on these little forums of how bad they are. Most of you hear/read, and then repeat what you hear/read and don't know what your talking about. As for the thread, from what I've gathered from all these post about maybe 3-4 of you have built one. It cracks me up to hear all of this crap. Tell ya what, most real good engine builders I have met, hate the internet for all the bad info thats out there. Sure this post maybe old, but i'm a dickbag so I just had to post. As for my setup? Ls/Vtec boosted 1 bar + .3 - If you can figure that out good for you.
:fu:

[David]

Having a bad day? Here this should help you :)

http://www.olegvolk.net/olegv/newsite/wildmacro/bunny.jpg

your girlfriend hates you, your car sucks, you dont know jack shit about cars and you brought back a thread from years ago that everybody is sick and tired of telling noobs like you that LS/VTEC is a pointless waste of noob money

Now learn to change your own damn oil and stop quoting shitty engine builders

[Dose3782]

That made my day oh so much better! haha =)

[stu]

What the fuck are you talking about? I've never even seen your name before. Although, regardless, I guess I'd have to go ahead and call you a dickbag anyway because I spent over a year saving and building my turbo set-up all by myself. Way to make yourself look like an asshole. Why don't you go back and edit your thread. Take my name out, and put in the person's name who you were talking about, because it sure as fuck wasn't me.

[gjcivic]

what a dick bag...

by the way, WTF is a dick bag? Is it like a banana hammock?

[HondasTrail]

That made my day oh so much better! haha =)
Congratulations, You just brought back a 2 year old thread. In my book that calls for a swift kick in the nuts (if you have any) and repeatedly calling you a fucktard. Now its fuckin fucktards like you that ruin the intranet you fucking fucktard. Now go crawl back in your shell you fucktard. Never bother coming back here again you clueless fucktard.

P.S. Did I ever mention that your a fucktard?

[civiceg6]

Not all Honda are N/A's. Over in Japan the 1988 Honda Legends are stock Turbo that put out 190hp and 180 lbs/torque and the Honda Legend 2.7L are Twin-Turbo. The Legend 2.7L TT were limited edition hard to find. I believe there was also a 3.2L TT version.

[floored4door]

n00b to the rescue!

[STIBungy]

Bahahaha. ;NutKick;

n00b to the rescue!

[ryanman]

weaksauce

[Weston]

In threads such as this, one must ask himself, "why do I even fucking care!?"

[ryanman]

:werd:

[brooklyngenius]

Who is the idiot doing the work on the LS VTECs you are talkin about?? who ever it is should be shot. I have had an LS VTEC for 2 years and I have none of the problems you are talkin about. I have on several occasions whooped up on some idiot who thinks like you and has a b18c. The key is Quality of work. most of the problems you are talking about would only occur if LS Vtec is the only thing you are doing to your ride. I mean if you are going to shell out for the conversion why wouldnt you get new rods, seals, cams and the other internals. not doing so is not only silly but not logical since LS Vtec is a serious mod for a serious driver it would only be logical to do all the internal engine work at the time of the conversion. If there are any doubts as to what I just stated then feel free to come holla and Ill put those doubts to rest.

[allmotor_civic]

Well, I think it's about time a mod just DELETED or LOCKED this ish once and for all. This thread was made by a previous mod, under my screen-name (rewriting some complaints I had made over time), for-fucking-ever-ago...P.S. LS/VTEC's are still gay. That bandwagon came and went a few years ago now. Get a K motor and tell me how sweet your LS/VTEC is...
When I had an LS/VTEC setup, it did have new everything...including oil pump, rod bolts, bearings (mains and rods), rings, head work...blah, blah, blah. New rods aren't nessicary on daily driven LS/VTEC's with only CTR pistons and ITR cams. Anyway, I moved on...built a 2.1 liter 14.2:1 GSR and tossed a rod out the front like it was going out of style. Now, I have a reliable B16 road race EH setup and am working on buying an STi. Basically, DON'T BRING THIS DAMNED THREAD EVER AGAIN, the long term HAI members are sick of seeing it at the top of the FWD forum.
Later

[cherrybombcivic]

k>b