RSX-S or Civic Si?

[Madx05]

So... I still need to sell the Prelude but I have started my new car search I have narrowed it down to either the RSX-s or the Civic Si. I have heard pros and cons for both but I'd like some firsthand opinions and not more bullshit from the dealer.
I'm concerned about the RSX because when I drove one it had no power until I nearly redlined it. I hear second gear has serious issues and that engine lights come on all the time. I also heard that it sucks on unstable road conditions which I can't have in CO. Finally, they have discontinued it so that makes me think there may be more hidden problems.
The Civic I havent driven yet, but I heard that it also has very little power.
So... I'd like opinions on which is best. Keep in mind I'm coming out of a Prelude so I expect alot from my car. Mainly I don't want to have it at my mechanic once a week nor do I want to have problems in bad weather.
Let me know what you think....

[ChewiSi]

S2K

[Nightfall]

I'd say the Civic will eventually have a bigger aftermarket but will probably have a much higher theft rate than the RSX.

[Kinematics]

Get the RSX-S, their interiors are very comfortable and they are easier to work on than the cramped bay of the Si.

[Conrad]

Speaking from experience.... the SI is more comfortable then the RSX if you are talking 06... It is more cramped though...

As far as problems... they are honda... you wont find more reliability anywhere!

Hands down the SI is a better value.. Same engine but comes with an LSD in the tranny. You will pay 5.5K more for a RSX-S then an SI for essentially the same car. This is also the last production year for the RSX so it is a tad dated you could say.

As far as unstable road conditions... My SI off the showroom floor went through a blizzard and handled better then any other car i have ever driven. I mean its a Front wheel drive and has an LSD. drives through snow like a champ! All cars slide on ice!

If you are looking for a car that makes power way before redline.. you dont want a honda.

And as far as an SI goes... unless you plan to travel youre not going to get one.

If you want a car you can heavily mod RIGHT NOW.. get a 04 or older RSX the 05+ and the SI have no engine mngt yet...

[Skaterkid]

RSX pros: Bigger engine bay, plenty of aftermarket products, cheaper cause you can get used ones

cons: No stock LSD, crappy suspension design front and rear if you ever want to be competitive in autox

SI pros: Stock LSD, cool instrument cluster, better suspension

cons: small aftermarket for right now, drive by wire, really small engine bay

[Terry]

Cons for both: You get no sleep because you know someone is more than likely going to steal your car

[Conrad]

Cons for both: You get no sleep because you know someone is more than likely going to steal your car

most people who buy either of those have a garage!

[Conrad]

RSX pros: Bigger engine bay, plenty of aftermarket products, cheaper cause you can get used ones

cons: No stock LSD, crappy suspension design front and rear if you ever want to be competitive in autox

SI pros: Stock LSD, cool instrument cluster, better suspension

cons: small aftermarket for right now, drive by wire, really small engine bay


very good pro con list!

Had to bold one of those! Although its sorta a pro and a con.

[stu]

Keep in mind I'm coming out of a Prelude so I expect alot from my car.


That's the funniest fucking thing I've ever heard!!


Why even get a Honda? Get a MazdaSpeed 6.

[Weston-work]

Why even get a Honda? Get a MazdaSpeed 6.

:rofl: @ MazdaSpeed. Get a WRX or something... factory turbo, proven potential, AWD, and great aftermarket... definately more bang-for-the-buck at this altitude than a new Honda/Acura.

[stu]

The MazdaSpeed has all that, plus you can get Navigation and a better sound system.

[Weston-work]

The MazdaSpeed has all that.

Not really.

[stu]

What doesn't the MazdaSpeed have? .2 liters of displacement?

[Weston-work]

What doesn't the MazdaSpeed have? .2 liters of displacement?

MazdaSpeed vs WRX... give me a break... it's not even a contest. WRX is the clear winner.

[stu]

Clear winner in what? It's got less power and less goodies in the interior.

Like usual, you're completely missing the point. The point is that the MazdaSpeed 6 is still better than either of those Hondas.

[Nightfall]

WRX or WRX STi?

Mazdaspeed 6 - 274hp
WRX - 230hp

[Conrad]

MazdaSpeed vs WRX... give me a break... it's not even a contest. WRX is the clear winner.

its a clear winner if your only wanting a faster car...

MazdaSpeed6 hands down more pimp, more comfortable, and higher resale anywhere other then colorado.

[Conrad]

Clear winner in what? It's got less power and less goodies in the interior.

Like usual, you're completely missing the point. The point is that the MazdaSpeed 6 is still better than either of those Hondas.

mazdaspeed 6 costs 10K more then and SI

[Madx05]

So I won'y buy a Mazda. Theres no question there. Every Mazda I've ever seen has eventually become a piece. The WRX I hadnt even considered. The only problem is that I really don't want a four door and I don't want to pay to fix a blown turbo....ever. Maybe I'll go look at one though.

[Weston]

Clear winner in what? It's got less power and less goodies in the interior.

Like usual, you're completely missing the point. The point is that the MazdaSpeed 6 is still better than either of those Hondas.

No, like usual, you're being a pompous ass who doesn't know what he's talking about, and now you're trying to change "the point" to avoid being wrong. Considering that he's looking at Honda/Acura, low $20's is his price range; high $20's / low $30's is not, hence my :rofl: @ MazdaSpeed. If you're going to start comparing cars in that price range, you might as well go for an STI, which makes the MazdaSpeed 6 look like even more of a joke. But let's just go ahead and compare the cars that we were talking about anyway...

MazdaSpeed 6
Starts at $28,555 (GT starts at $30,485)
2.3L Inline-4 DOHC turbo @ 15.6 psi
274hp, 280 ft-lbs
AWD w/ rear LSD
3589 lbs
19 mpg city / 25 highway

WRX
Starts at $23,995
2.5L Boxer-4 DOHC turbo @ 13.5 psi
230hp, 235 fl-lbs
AWD w/ rear LSD
3192 lbs
20 mpg city / 26 highway

Wow, so I'm going to pay $4500 more for a 400 lb heavier car with a 0.2L smaller engine that just has the boost turned up higher. :rolleyes: Not to mention that Subaru has an excellent aftermarket and race proven performance, where MazdaSpeed is nothing but a back-marker and a very desperate one at that (their contingency program offered to racers makes this pretty obvious).


Now let's compare the MazdaSpeed 6 to something that's actually close to it's price range...

MazdaSpeed 6
Starts at $28,555 (GT starts at $30,485)
2.3L Inline-4 DOHC turbo @ 15.6 psi
274hp, 280 ft-lbs
AWD w/ rear LSD
3589 lbs
19 mpg city / 25 highway

Evo
Starts at $29,149
2.0L Inline-4 DOHC turbo @ 20.2 psi
286hp, 289 ft-lbs
AWD w/ front & rear LSD
3263 lbs
19 mpg city / 25 highway

WRX STI
Starts at $32,995
2.5L Boxer-4 DOHC turbo @ 14.5 psi
300hp, 300 ft-lbs (and we all know how easy it is to get more than this)
AWD w/ front & rear LSD, and adjustable center diff
3351 lbs
18 mpg city / 24 highway


Wow, and the MazdaSpeed sucks, once again.

[Weston]

its a clear winner if your only wanting a faster car...

MazdaSpeed6 hands down more pimp, more comfortable, and higher resale anywhere other then colorado.

Higher resale because it costs more. Like I just told Stu, if you're going to compare the MazdaSpeed 6 here, you might as well compare it with cars that are actually in it's price range.

[Madx05]

Ok... Let me lay this out here. I'm a female. Secondly, no I can't afford the Mazda even if I would buy one.

[Conrad]

Higher resale because it costs more. Like I just told Stu, if you're going to compare the MazdaSpeed 6 here, you might as well compare it with cars that are actually in it's price range.

I agree...

In the end you need to decide what you want..

How much you can afford.

SI cheaper still fun, IMO looks hands down better then a WRX... But all people probably dont agree...

WRX fun car... I would like to have one of those too! The styling and interior I think are lacking but that is also MO

MazdaSpeed 6 Not even in the same class of car as the other two.

RSX-S other then already having an aftermarket for 04 and older I dont see any other advantage. OOOOh its an Acura..

STI.... fuck a 34K WRX... We were talking at bandi... buy a new WRX and mod the shit out of it before you buy an STI

[Nightfall]

Ok... Let me lay this out here. I'm a female.
What does that really have to do with your decision in buying a car?

[Conrad]

What does that really have to do with your decision in buying a car?
because girls dont know how to drive!

[midori ek9]

si they have lsd and a tight ass interior

[stu]

Weston, can you even get an STi or an EVO in leather with navigation?

You made your point that the MazdaSpeed 6 costs more (except a new RSX-S is about the same I think)

Don't act so sure that the Mazda is a piece of shit though. No one EVER complains about Miatas or Proteges. The MazdaSpeed stuff hasn't even been around long enough to judge.

You really did miss the point though. I wasn't comparing the Speed 6 to the WRX, you were. I don't think there is anything wrong with the WRX (I'm still contemplating buying one).

I'll settle by saying that the Mazda is out of the price range of the other vehicles.

[Nightfall]

RSX-S is $23k

Mazdaspeed 6 starts at $28,555 (GT starts at $30,485)

[Conrad]

Weston, can you even get an STi or an EVO in leather with navigation?

You made your point that the MazdaSpeed 6 costs more (except a new RSX-S is about the same I think)

Don't act so sure that the Mazda is a piece of shit though. No one EVER complains about Miatas or Proteges. The MazdaSpeed stuff hasn't even been around long enough to judge.

You really did miss the point though. I wasn't comparing the Speed 6 to the WRX, you were. I don't think there is anything wrong with the WRX (I'm still contemplating buying one).

I'll settle by saying that the Mazda is out of the price range of the other vehicles.

if you make a comparison of the MazdaSpeed6 compare it to the LGT which the mazda was made to compete with. Both have Navi and are High 20

you can get a brand new rsx s for less then 24

[Kinematics]

Buy my S14. :rolleyes:

[Skaterkid]

There's nothing wrong with the Mazdaspeed 6. It's 0-60 times are on par with a Legacy GT, its handling numbers are better, its subjective handling reviews are better, and the brakes will stop just as well as an Evo or STi without being so expensive to repair. The only problems for it are to get a front mount on the car, and figure out how to hack the ECU and add supplementary injectors to the ports to be able to get more power out of it.

And as far as racing goes, the Mazda 6 sure holds its own with the Acuras. I think its a pretty awesome car for people who are looking for something that can perform close to the level of a STi or Evo but has more luxury.

[Weston]

There's nothing wrong with the Mazdaspeed 6. It's 0-60 times are on par with a Legacy GT, its handling numbers are better, its subjective handling reviews are better, and the brakes will stop just as well as an Evo or STi without being so expensive to repair. The only problems for it are to get a front mount on the car, and figure out how to hack the ECU and add supplementary injectors to the ports to be able to get more power out of it.

Those handling numbers are bullshit. I can make my car register over 1.0 lateral G's or more like 0.8, just based on what tires I put on it. Car makers have been known to ship cars with inpractical tires just to do well on these tests. The Type-R and STI would be prime examples. There are also a lot of things that these tests don't measure.

And as far as racing goes, the Mazda 6 sure holds its own with the Acuras. I think its a pretty awesome car for people who are looking for something that can perform close to the level of a STi or Evo but has more luxury.

Take a look at how much they had to tweak the race's rules to make the Mazdas competitive. Also take a look at the contingency program they offer to racers... that should explain why people are actually racing them. I haven't watched for a little while, but they were always back-markers as far as I knew.

[Kinematics]

There are also a lot of things that these tests don't measure.

:werd: Handling specs you read about in magazines (skidpad, slalom, etc) are mere fractions of measuring a car's handling ability. Specs also cannot explain driving feel or the vehicle's balance. Also, cannot explain why cars with better handling specs sometimes don't handle as well with cars that have lesser handling specs.

[stu]

That's what road tests and driver reviews are for. Raw numbers mean little to me.


What the hell are back-markers?

[Kwando]

get what you want... i would lean more towards a WRX... find a used one owned by an adult that way you have less to worry about.

[Skaterkid]

All the SCCA did for the WC was make the engines on par for power. The 2.3 isn't the strongest NA engine, but it makes good power boosted. The Mazda chassis has no trouble keeping up with the RTR TSX's. And other Mazda's are very competitive in Solo 2, like the Miata.

And Kinematics since you obviously didn't read my post, I said the Mazdaspeed got great subjective (i.e. the writers loved the handling) reviews. Either way, comparing the Mazdaspeed with an Evo or STi is comparing it with the wrong class of cars. It competes most closely with the LGT.

[vinnie1069]

i would get the rsx. i dont like the 2 dashes on the si, and i think its ugly. and the engine bay is so damn small you cant even fit a damn wrench in there to work on it. the rsx, looks a hell of a lot better, has a much nicer interior, and even if it isnt quite as good in performance, its a nice car to drive. i would rather have a car i like that is slower than a faster car that i hate. so, just my $.02
David

[rmcdaniels]

Screw all those pansy-ass cars, get the new Fiat, I hear this thing is a beast:

http://s115271005.onlinehome.us/images/fiat1.jpg



Look how happy these people look, this must be an awesome car:

http://s115271005.onlinehome.us/images/fiat2.jpg

[Conrad]

:rofl:

[Dave_L]

How about this...go test drive the two cars and get which ever one you like to drive more. Who cares what the magazines say and what we say. We aren't the ones that are going to be paying for it or driving it.

[kevino002]

I'm a female.

POB!!! 24hrs!!!! :)

[Tonnerre]

Impreza TR. Same price as the RSX-S and it is made for tuners.
Sentra SER V spec Save 5k over the RSX
The Eclipse GT 23.6k 240 hp.
Scion TC 16k
Audi A3, 16k

[Tonnerre]

I just saw that she was a girl, How about the TDI beatle? My friend has one and they are not bad on gas and turbo. They are fun and big inside. And not a bad price.

[Tonnerre]

Here is another option. The cobalt SS supercharged. Not bad and fast A real good car for tunning.

[Conrad]

Tonnerre.... just quit and get back in your own forum!

[Tonnerre]

Conrad, so you are telling me that none of these cars are a good idea? They are all nice and fast. The TC can be tuned nicely also.

[Conrad]

Conrad, so you are telling me that none of these cars are a good idea? They are all nice and fast. The TC can be tuned nicely also.

For one your prices are retarded
you are not going to get out of the door in a TC for 16k...

2ndly the only thing you base your advice on is HP ratings... which are subject by themselves.
Also the "Tuner Edition" wrx... bleh... unless you are strictly building a car for race... who the hell would buy a 25K car that doesnt even have power windows...

Let her pic by what she drives... all other opinions mean little since she didnt even say what she was looking for in a car.

[Mark_H]

2ndly the only thing you base your advice on is HP ratings... which are subject by themselves.
Also the "Tuner Edition" wrx... bleh... unless you are strictly building a car for race... who the hell would buy a 25K car that doesnt even have power windows...


Actually the TR does ofcourse have PW, PL, Keyless entry, cruise, tilt, A/C...it's got all the creature comforts. The TR has a single CD vs. 6 disk in dash, the TR has cloth seats(which most WRX's have anyway) The TR has standard climate control vs. dual controlled climate control. The "TR" name is a bit deceiving because it's got everything, just a little "cheaper" options.
HTH
Mark
And FWIW, I'd HIGHLY recommend a used WRX or a new WRX TR. PM me for the best prices in the state on new and used WRX's.

[LoungeLizard]

Why not a Cobalt SS/SC or Ion Redline? You can find a used Redline for $17K, and they dyno at 210+hp at the wheels

[Conrad]

Actually the TR does ofcourse have PW, PL, Keyless entry, cruise, tilt, A/C...it's got all the creature comforts. The TR has a single CD vs. 6 disk in dash, the TR has cloth seats(which most WRX's have anyway) The TR has standard climate control vs. dual controlled climate control. The "TR" name is a bit deceiving because it's got everything, just a little "cheaper" options.
HTH
Mark
And FWIW, I'd HIGHLY recommend a used WRX or a new WRX TR. PM me for the best prices in the state on new and used WRX's.
my bad.... Hung told me this info so I blame it on asians!

I thought it was like the EVO RS

[Conrad]

Why not a Cobalt SS/SC or Ion Redline? You can find a used Redline for $17K, and they dyno at 210+hp at the wheels

because they are saturns and chevys... and when i say chevy I mean not a corvette

[LoungeLizard]

because they are saturns and chevys... and when i say chevy I mean not a corvette

And whats wrong with that?

[Conrad]

And whats wrong with that?

The problem is you have to ask.

[LoungeLizard]

I see no problem with my car. I would take it over a new Si or RSX any day.

[Conrad]

I see no problem with my car. I would take it over a new Si or RSX any day.

and i take it you have a cobalt?

[LoungeLizard]

No I have a Redline. Look at my Avatar pic

[Conrad]

No I have a Redline. Look at my Avatar pic

Sorry I am at work... turn all that stuff off...

Anyway

I base this on the fact that the Crapaliers didnt hold value more then 2 years. Even the Z24 ones. And the cobalts were made to replace them. Granted there quality might have jumped up alot! I dont know. Either way call it a chevy, or saturn they are the same. Neither have a track record of holding any kind of value what so ever. You dont see too many people buying 92 cavaliers...

[LoungeLizard]

Just because a car doesn't hold it's value, it doesn't mean it's a bad car. Cars hold their value based on how popular they are. Saturns and cavaliers have never been very popular, so they loose their value quickly. I don't think I have a bad car in any way. It comes stock with 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS, Recaro seats, power windows/locks/mirrors, and I ran a 14.5 @ 97mph with just an intake, axle-back exhaust and a smaller pulley.

[Conrad]

Just because a car doesn't hold it's value, it doesn't mean it's a bad car. Cars hold their value based on how popular they are. Saturns and cavaliers have never been very popular, so they loose their value quickly. I don't think I have a bad car in any way. It comes stock with 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS, Recaro seats, power windows/locks/mirrors, and I ran a 14.5 @ 97mph with just an intake, axle-back exhaust and a smaller pulley.

oh granted i agree... but like m@ likes to say. He did it cheaper..

The thing I am talking is the quality. Its early to say but the crapaliers always had something break, cheap interior design, saturns with the rubbermaid dashes. I cant speak for the redlines or the crapbolts but they have a reputation!

[LoungeLizard]

Yes they do, but reps change. I have had my car since Dec. 04 and I havent had any problems except for some blown speakers.

[Conrad]

Yes they do, but reps change. I have had my car since Dec. 04 and I havent had any problems except for some blown speakers.

how much was MSRP and how much is the current KBB?

[LoungeLizard]

MSRP was $22,300, I paid $17,100 and current KBB is $15,100

[Madx05]

Wow... I've missed quite a bit here... So let me address the VW Beatle first... I will not, no way, even if it were free. Those cars look like skittles on wheels and you know how we girls like to keep flowers on our dashboards.... no thanks.
I've driven the RSX wasn't quite as satisfied as I thought I would be but I think I could adjust. It just didn't have the power I was expecting it to.
The dealership I went to didn't even have an Si on the lot for me to drive so I'm stiil working on that one.
I think I have at least determined that I want to stick with my original picks. I checked out an eclipse but I just don't trust them. I'm still going to look at a WRX but I trust Honda and I'm pretty sure that what I'll stick with.
As for what I'm looking for.. power, reliability, speed, looks, price, much more buts that my current list.

[Conrad]

Wow... I've missed quite a bit here... So let me address the VW Beatle first... I will not, no way, even if it were free. Those cars look like skittles on wheels and you know how we girls like to keep flowers on our dashboards.... no thanks.
I've driven the RSX wasn't quite as satisfied as I thought I would be but I think I could adjust. It just didn't have the power I was expecting it to.
The dealership I went to didn't even have an Si on the lot for me to drive so I'm stiil working on that one.
I think I have at least determined that I want to stick with my original picks. I checked out an eclipse but I just don't trust them. I'm still going to look at a WRX but I trust Honda and I'm pretty sure that what I'll stick with.
As for what I'm looking for.. power, reliability, speed, looks, price, much more buts that my current list.

give up on test driving an SI or really getting one for that matter.

[robstamina]

Get a used 02-05 civic si.(sorry I am biased) you can find them around 10-13k used. you can spend another 3k and s/c it an put down 200whp+ for half the cost. I would never buy a car used..the new 06 is considered "tuner unfriendly" eventhough I love the car..base model rsx's are slow.. find a used type s and again s/c for power and also good daily driver set up..

[David]

Go test drive a WRX, they are fun

Mini Coopers too

[Conrad]

Mini Coopers too
:werd:

this would have been my car if it was the same price as my SI.

[Dave_L]

Yeah, the mini cooper S was a fun car to drive.

[stu]

I was considering a Cooper for a long time, until I realized how much more car I could get for the same price.

[V8SpankR]

A Mini Cooper would be fine for a 2nd car but those have such little room you have to get out to even change your mind.

[Mark_H]

A Mini Cooper would be fine for a 2nd car but those have such little room you have to get out to even change your mind.

Haha...clever.
Mark

[Conrad]

I was considering a Cooper for a long time, until I realized how much more car I could get for the same price.
:werd: dave and me went and looked at some... they got outrageous when you start adding packages.. I think we saw one that was stage 4 and a few other mods for 45K

[Madx05]

So, I bought the RSX-S. I love it. Thanks for the opinions.