Smoking ban not being stopped!

[nicklk]

Judge refused to delay the smoking ban thats going to be taking place on the 1st of July! Thank god! Do business' not realize that this WILL be bringing more people to their restraunts/bars/clubs??

I cant wait!

Link to story:
http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=0199a262-0abe-421a-019f-e56e0106bbe4&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

[M@]

GOOD! :) I'm extremely happy about this.

[sbiggi]

smokers can do that shit else where. I think not smelling like a cig when I leave the bar.

[oldskoolracer]

I'LL MAKE SURE TO SMOKE NEXT TO YOU SETH,LOL

[nicklk]

smokers can do that shit else where. I think not smelling like a cig when I leave the bar.

Nothing better then waking up the next morning and your skin smells like shit, and you have to completely seal off the clothes you wore the prior evening so that it doesnt reak up the rest of your clothes!

[Martian]

This is a load of BS. That is all

[M@]

I think Josh must be a smoker. :D

[Dave_L]

I'd imagine if I smoked still that I'd be pissed but being a non-smoker now, I LOVE THIS BAN!

[Ferret]

Haha yeah! Nothing better than having the government regulate what you let people do inside of your own place of business!

FUCK YEAH +1 FOR FREE AMERICA! http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/Shanerak/Smilies/emthup.gif

I swear, people seem to have stopped thinking these days.

[M@]

Haha yeah! Nothing better than having the government regulate what you let people do inside of your own place of business!

FUCK YEAH +1 FOR FREE AMERICA! http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/Shanerak/Smilies/emthup.gif

I swear, people seem to have stopped thinking these days.
Why is this any different than having to keep your kitchens clean and sanitary? It effects others health if it's not kept clean... the government regulates on this.

Same with smoking, it effects others health.. why shouldn't the government be allowed to regulate on it as well?

[nicklk]

Why is this any different than having to keep your kitchens clean and sanitary? It effects others health if it's not kept clean... the government regulates on this.

Same with smoking, it effects others health.. why shouldn't the government be allowed to regulate on it as well?

http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/werd.gif

There was a good article in the Vail Times when Eagle County had their ban take into place:
-Arn Menconi
"It's government's responsibility to protect the health and welfare of the community.

The public expects restaurant inspections and kitchen cleanliness to govern the safety of what we put in our stomachs. Laws exist to protect workers and the public from dangerous chemicals such as asbestos, pesticides and radon.

There are laws protecting restaurant patrons from hair follicles falling into food, and laws requiring restaurant workers to wash their hands before touching food to prevent the passage of germs.

Yet, until now, there was no law in Eagle County protecting service workers from breathing the equivalent of one and a half to two packs of cigarettes during a shift in a smoke-filled restaurant or bar"

[Martian]

I'll be in jail on July 1st. One of you guys will come visit me right?

[M@]

I'll come say hello. Hell, I'll even toss you a pack of smokes.

[Martian]

Thanks for looking out

[M@]

I forgot to mention I'll also be laughing at you, all while showing you "the brain" and calling you a fag. :)

[Ferret]

Same with smoking, it effects others health.. why shouldn't the government be allowed to regulate on it as well?

Prove this.

[M@]

Prove this.
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Environmental_Tobacco_Smoke-Clean_Indoor_Air.asp

[Martian]

Just for that, each and every time I see you from here on out, I will make it a point to damage your health by blowing my cigarette smoke straight at your face. It ought to kill you instantly, because it's just THAT BAD. I'm not going to be the curteous smoker anymore. I'm going to follow people with my cigarettes as soon as they pass that 15'1" mark coming out of restraunts. I figure I'll get an army together, and and do that all over the city. Then when all these self rightous pricks are melting in the street because my second hand smoke is THAT BAD. I can go back to smoking at my favorite bar and there will be no one left to complain about it.

"I went to a bar that I know alot of people smoke at. Now I smell like cigarettes. I'm all important, the business owner should be made to cater to what I want."

People act like there wasn't a single non smoking place for them to go, so everything needs to get moulded in such a way that they are happy. Its the right of the business owner to decide what type of people they want to market their business too. If this ban were really that popular an idea, there would be a hell of a lot of no smoking establishments naturally. Why do you think every attempt at this that has ever made it on to a ballot has failed. This is not what the majority wants, this is want a very powerful and wealthy minority wants.

[M@]

If you did that to me, you would get a nice fist to the face without me even thinking twice about it. That is possibly one of the rudest things anyone could do to someone.

[Ferret]

http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

http://www.cancer.org/docroot/PED/content/PED_10_2X_Environmental_Tobacco_Smoke-Clean_Indoor_Air.asp

Find me cases of people who have never smoked a day in thier lives that suddenly had lung cancer. I haven't seen any, yet. I think people just hate the smell.

[M@]

When I have more time to dig up articles I've read in the past, I'll post them.

[Martian]

If you did that to me, you would get a nice fist to the face without me even thinking twice about it. That is possibly one of the rudest things anyone could do to someone.
First of all, you're not tall enough to get me in the face. Second, on July 1st one of the rudest things you can do to someone will be taking place. So now I've got this for ya, I don't give a flying fuck how you feel about it. I will be making you uncomfortable with my second hand smoke every chance I get now.

[M@]

Josh, how about this? Fuck you.

[Ferret]

Hey kids: shut up.

Someone just walked past me and smelled like smoke so I fuckin kicked him in the nuts. HERE'S TO YOU, SMOKERS! DON'T ENCROACH ON MY LIFE ;NutKick;

[Dave_L]

I'm gonna wear a shirt that says "Are you sure you're past the 15' mark?". If someone/group of people followed me and started blowing their smoke in my face, they better be ready to throw down.

[stu]

Bar/restaurant owners DO still have the right to have smoking in their place.
They just have to make it a cigar bar.

[nicklk]

Cancer is one of the rarest things to occur from second hand smoke......I dont know why you insist on just cancer.

Secondhand smoke is the leading cause to SIDS, that lil' baby taht the family has 3 tables down from your group of friends that are hacking your lungs....has clinically caused that baby to die. Birth defects, premature babies, deteriate immune systems, not to mention you are infringing on my fuckin rights smoking, I havent smoked a day in my life and I like to taste my food, smell the rain in the spring, and like to kiss a chick and not taste an ash tray. So who's rights are we infringing?? Mine or yours? Difference is, mine doesn't cause problems to others....

[Martian]

I'm gonna wear a shirt that says "Are you sure you're past the 15' mark?". If someone/group of people followed me and started blowing their smoke in my face, they better be ready to throw down.

I've got a shirt of my own brother it reads "I'm a smoker, so my rights don't matter"

[nicklk]

Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

An estimated 35,000 to 40,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are not current smokers
About 3,000 lung cancer deaths in nonsmoking adults
Other respiratory problems in nonsmokers, including coughing, phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function
150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations
Increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million asthmatic children

[Martian]

Cancer is one of the rarest things to occur from second hand smoke......I dont know why you insist on just cancer.

Secondhand smoke is the leading cause to SIDS, that lil' baby taht the family has 3 tables down from your group of friends that are hacking your lungs....has clinically caused that baby to die. Birth defects, premature babies, deteriate immune systems, not to mention you are infringing on my fuckin rights smoking, I havent smoked a day in my life and I like to taste my food, smell the rain in the spring, and like to kiss a chick and not taste an ash tray. So who's rights are we infringing?? Mine or yours? Difference is, mine doesn't cause problems to others....

That child abuse on the part of the parent pal, no one made them go into the establishment, or even be near me. They chose it.

You have the right to choose where you can and do go. You don't have the right to a perfect enviroment.

[Dave_L]

I've got a shirt of my own brother it reads "I'm a smoker, so my rights don't matter"

Ill make another shirt that says "I'm a non-smoker and I stole his rights. -->" :)

[Dave_L]

That child abuse on the part of the parent pal, no one made them go into the establishment, or even be near me. They chose it.

You have the right to choose where you can and do go. You don't have the right to a perfect enviroment.

So now non-smokers have to choose where they go to eat? Just go outside for your damn cancer stick.

[Ferret]

Cancer is one of the rarest things to occur from second hand smoke......I dont know why you insist on just cancer.

Secondhand smoke is the leading cause to SIDS, that lil' baby taht the family has 3 tables down from your group of friends that are hacking your lungs....has clinically caused that baby to die. Birth defects, premature babies, deteriate immune systems, not to mention you are infringing on my fuckin rights smoking, I havent smoked a day in my life and I like to taste my food, smell the rain in the spring, and like to kiss a chick and not taste an ash tray. So who's rights are we infringing?? Mine or yours? Difference is, mine doesn't cause problems to others....

Protip: If a baby is in a bar, lol. If parents bring thier baby into a smoking area in a resturant, lol. I'm not really against people banning in near resturants, but in bars? Private offices? It should be up to the business owner. You talk of rights, and yet you're so willing to sign them over. It's adorable!

[oldskoolracer]

i think that this whole fucking state is way to PC and it drives me fucking nuts everyone here is bitchng about this or protesting about that,
BOO FUCKING WHO kiss my fucking ass. i get sick and tired of everyone so
broken up about so new thing evry other week this offends me or this isn't right,


tell yeah what, how bout you just put yourself in a little fucking bubble everytime you come out, cause i'll be one of those happy fucking smokers
standing at the front door making a nice smoke screen for yeah everytime you come through the door. how bout that? i'm outside fucking do something about it, i fucking dare yeah cause you know what it's also my personal choice to get my foot stuck in some one berkenstock wearing,
PC asshole who thinks that they can run my fucking life...

CAUS YOU KNOW WHAT, IF I'M GONNA GO TO JAIL I'M GONNA FUCKING EARN IT. KISS MY FUCKING ASS I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU DON'T LIKE SMOKING TRY NOT GOING TO THAT CLUB MAYBE BUT INSTEAD ALL YOU CAN DO IS CRY BOO HOO. GO TO HELL.

I UNDERSTAND THAT ALOT OF PLACES DON'T ALLOW IT RIGHT NOW AND I RESPECT THAT, AND EVEN THOUGH WE CAN SMOKE AT PLACES LIKE KONA LAT NIGHT I CHOSE NOT TOO.....

BUT THAT WAS MY CHOICE I RESPECT THE PEOPLE AROUND ME WHO DON'T SMOKE, ONCE AGAIN MY CHOICE..

NOW I DON'T HAVE THAT CHOICE WHY? MOST PLACES THAT YOU CAN SMOKE AT, THE SMOKING IS WAY IN THE BACK AND I DON'T SEE HOW IT WOULD AFFECT YOU.

HECK, I DON'T LIKE SMELLING SMOKE WHILE I'M EATING, BUT DAMN RIGHT THE FIRST THING I'M GONNA DO WHEN I'M DONE IS FIRE ONE UP. OUTSIDE NOW SO I'M NOT GONNA BE HAPPY ABOUT IT AND WHEN SOMEONE DOES MAKE THE COMMENT ABOUT MY SMOKE I'M GONNA FUCKING FLIP OUT AND HURT SOMEONE..........






I GOT ONE,,, HOW BOUT WE DON'T ALLOW DRINKING OTHER THAN IN YOUR OWN HOMES CAUSE ALL YOU DRUNK FUCKERS GET ON MY NERVES AND GET IN WRECKS AND START FIGHTS AND PUKE EVERYWHERE AND SHIT,,,, JUST A THOUGHT. WHO HERE WOULD BE BITCHING THEN OR HOW BOUT NO CELL PHONES IN A PUBLIC PLACE BECAUSE IT'S RUDE TO BE YELLING INTO YOUR PHONE WHEN THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE AROUND??????


JUST A THOUGHT

OK I'M DONE MY 2 CENTS

[Martian]

Secondhand smoke can be harmful in many ways. In the United States alone, each year it is responsible for:

An estimated 35,000 to 40,000 deaths from heart disease in people who are not current smokers
About 3,000 lung cancer deaths in nonsmoking adults
Other respiratory problems in nonsmokers, including coughing, phlegm, chest discomfort, and reduced lung function
150,000 to 300,000 lower respiratory tract infections (such as pneumonia and bronchitis) in children younger than 18 months of age, which result in 7,500 to 15,000 hospitalizations
Increases in the number and severity of asthma attacks in about 200,000 to 1 million asthmatic children

Site a study with real statistics and actual controls. There isn't one, but try and find it anyhow. This is self rightousness and nothing else. You feel the need to make others conform to your will because your not happy. This will fail in the end just like prohibition of liquor did. It's the same damn thing.

[Ferret]

:rofl: Old school that was awesome

[Martian]

So now non-smokers have to choose where they go to eat? Just go outside for your damn cancer stick.
I have no problem going outside. But now I can't just go outside, I have to straight leave. Ask yourself this Dave, how many times have I smoked around you in close proximity or indoors?

[David]

This law is such bullshit, just because a couple people didn't like people smoking they decided to take it upon themselves to force bars to not allow it. Fuck that. Let people run their own damn businesses, and let people do what they want to their bodies.

[Ferret]

Oldschool brought up a good point.

Drunk people encroach on my rights.

They get violent and loud, they're very disrespectful, and it stinks to all hell when they spill beer and shit all over the place. I hate the smell of beer. You think I wanna go to a club just to have some drunk faggot spill beer on me? Then I gotta seperate my clothes in the wash.. it's gross.

So, I agree, we should ban drinking in public. It leads to violence, dangerous driving, bad language, and hey.. I just don't like it! Ban it.

[oldskoolracer]

Site a study with real statistics and actual controls. There isn't one, but try and find it anyhow. This is self rightousness and nothing else. You feel the need to make others conform to your will because your not happy. This will fail in the end just like prohibition of liquor did. It's the same damn thing.


OH NO GOD FUCKING FORBID THAT THEY OUTLAW DRINKING,, LOL
THEN THERE WOULD BE SOME FUCKING REVOLT ON HAI


AND I BET SOMEONE WOULD SAY THEY'RE TAKING AWAY OUR RIGHTS
AND THAT'S WHEN I WOULD GO BACK AND FIND THERE POST ON HERE
AND GO,,,"HOW DO YOU LIKE IT FUCKER NOW SUCK IT UP YOU LITTLE BITCH AND ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG!"

SORRY VENTING AGAIN



CAPS LOCK MAFIA

[sbiggi]

You are already not allowed to be intoxicated in public, they just dont enforce it.

[oldskoolracer]

don't get me wrong i understand you don't like smoking

sometimes i hate the fact that i do but it is my choice and i like it that way.
i don't smoke in a non-smokers car or try to blow smoke in anyones face
it is rude, but you telling me i can't cause you don't like it is VERY rude i think also

[Ferret]

You are already not allowed to be intoxicated in public, they just dont enforce it.

Well they should. When I bring my 3 month old child to a bar, I don't want her to be around alcohol, it could kill her.

[David]

I hate guys who wear pink shirts - we should ban those too.

edit - that and people with Mohawks, fuck them.

[nicklk]

Site a study with real statistics and actual controls. There isn't one, but try and find it anyhow. This is self rightousness and nothing else. You feel the need to make others conform to your will because your not happy. This will fail in the end just like prohibition of liquor did. It's the same damn thing.

I am happy as fuck about this!! And it wont fail.....you have to realize that Colorado isnt the first state to do this ban...almost every major metropolitan area has a smoking ban in place. Thats the funniest thing about all of this, after living in Oregon where almost every city is banned....I am sooo excited for this! I lived there when the ban went into affect, and everything thats happening here, happened then. You will have the protestors, the people at the front door being all pissy about having to be outside, blowing smoke inside the bars or restaunts to revolt......it wont matter much anyways, you will find yourself being the minority in 6 months, and you will see people turning their head towards you when you start to get all pissy about havin to smoke outside. Just wait till they increase cigarette taxes $2/pack, then you will get pissed, and it will be another victory for the non-smoking community.

[sbiggi]

Well they should. When I bring my 3 month old child to a bar, I don't want her to be around alcohol, it could kill her.

They wont, its not the "hot topic" of the politicians these days.

[oldskoolracer]

You are already not allowed to be intoxicated in public, they just dont enforce it.



we're talking about anykind of drinking meaning in a bar like BW3 or KONA.
i'm going there to hang with freinds why do i have to deal with some drunk fucker when all i'm trying to do is take a piss or sit at a table with out some idiot bumping the table or some shit????????


somthing to think about seth

[nicklk]

And you think I am talking about going to a bar and bringing my kid there?? This isnt only affecting bars, its affecting everything restraunt, and public facility!

Most restraunts have a non-smoking area, but you are still having to walk thru the area to get to your seat....and not to mention the restraunts that have good service, good food, but still allow smoking

[Ferret]

Nicklk, it's pretty sad that this is so high on your agenda. What happened to when people had real things to stand for? We have soldiers overseas, and our economy is sketchy, and you talk of "smoker versus non-smoker victories"? Grow up.

[Ferret]

And you think I am talking about going to a bar and bringing my kid there?? This isnt only affecting bars, its affecting everything restraunt, and public facility!

Most restraunts have a non-smoking area, but you are still having to walk thru the area to get to your seat....and not to mention the restraunts that have good service, good food, but still allow smoking

You don't make any sense. Are you even old enough TO smoke?

[David]

Yeah, walking through the smoking section of a restaurant is a fate worse than death. Thank god we got rid of that before even more people got cancer.

[Martian]

I am happy as fuck about this!! And it wont fail.....you have to realize that Colorado isnt the first state to do this ban...almost every major metropolitan area has a smoking ban in place. Thats the funniest thing about all of this, after living in Oregon where almost every city is banned....I am sooo excited for this! I lived there when the ban went into affect, and everything thats happening here, happened then. You will have the protestors, the people at the front door being all pissy about having to be outside, blowing smoke inside the bars or restaunts to revolt......it wont matter much anyways, you will find yourself being the minority in 6 months, and you will see people turning their head towards you when you start to get all pissy about havin to smoke outside. Just wait till they increase cigarette taxes $2/pack, then you will get pissed, and it will be another victory for the non-smoking community.
go back to Oregon then Hippy

[Dave_L]

I GOT ONE,,, HOW BOUT WE DON'T ALLOW DRINKING OTHER THAN IN YOUR OWN HOMES CAUSE ALL YOU DRUNK FUCKERS GET ON MY NERVES AND GET IN WRECKS AND START FIGHTS AND PUKE EVERYWHERE AND SHIT,,,,


Most of that is illegal already Eric. Drinking and driving, drunk in public, assault...Now whether or not you get busted, that's a different story. Most of you guys respect us non-smokers at Kona and stuff which I appreciate. I don't mind if you guys smoke the occassional cigarette at the table. What sucks is when everyone is doing it and I can feel it in my lungs when I leave a bar. It felt like I might as well smoked too. I know how it feels to smoke because I smoked for 3 years and quit. It was the best thing I ever did.

[oldskoolracer]

i think there are smoking areas most of the time any more,,, not the other way around.

like @ dennys i have to walk way to the back......

I THINK I'VE HEARD OF SEATING LIKE THAT,HMMMM

DIDN'T THEY USED TO HAVE A BLACKS ONLY SECTION IN ALOT OF RESTRAUNTS AND MOST JUST DIDN'T LET THEM EAT THERE?????


just a thought,,,

[Ferret]

Yeah, walking through the smoking section of a restaurant is a fate worse than death. Thank god we got rid of that before even more people got cancer.

btw can you help me remove my cat this weekend, once I pass emissions?

[David]

if there is beer involved, then yes.

[oldskoolracer]

i know it's illegal to drink in public so do something about that but everyone is just preaching new laws in areas where they are breaking others.
but it suits thier needs just fine so they don't say shit..
funny how that works out,,,,


all i'm saying is you should have a choice to own a BIZZ where you can smoke at or not,,, it shouldn't be forced upon you.

i agree i should quit smoking and then maybe i'll bitch about it but until then

[nicklk]

go back to Oregon then Hippy

Naa, I like pestering you ugly bastards better;)

[sbiggi]

we're talking about anykind of drinking meaning in a bar like BW3 or KONA.
i'm going there to hang with freinds why do i have to deal with some drunk fucker when all i'm trying to do is take a piss or sit at a table with out some idiot bumping the table or some shit????????


somthing to think about seth

I know what you mean. The reality is, I dont smoke, and could careless if they force non smoking areas.

I know they are infinging on your rights and the establishments rights. Which sucks for those people. But like any other selfcentered asshole american, I dont give a shit.

I'm not trying to be mean, or disrepectful to you in any way, its just the truth.

[oldskoolracer]

I KNOW BUT THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T FUCKING SMOKE

IT'S YOUR CHOICE

[sbiggi]

I KNOW BUT THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T FUCKING SMOKE

IT'S YOUR CHOICE


I dont care if you do smoke, so I guess we are on the same page then.

[sbiggi]

The whole issue is people only thinking about them selves.

[DrJones]

I KNOW BUT THAT'S WHY I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T FUCKING SMOKE

IT'S YOUR CHOICE

If you want us to listen to what you have to say then turn off caps lock and talk like a grown up.

[oldskoolracer]

I dont care if you do smoke, so I guess we are on the same page then.


I DON'T think we are on the same page, why is your choice forced down my
throat like dicks in M@'s mouth at a frat party?


there are quite a few places i like that they don't allow smoking but it's their choice, i don't mind that part but outlawing it all together, kinda bullshit

[Martian]

If you want us to listen to what you have to say then turn off caps lock and talk like a grown up.
And this statement makes you real mature right?

[sbiggi]

I DON'T think we are on the same page, why is your choice forced down my
throat like dicks in M@'s mouth at a frat party?


there are quite a few places i like that they don't allow smoking but it's their choice, i don't mind that part but outlawing it all together, kinda bullshit

You understand that I dont care about the smoking ban either way right?

[oldskoolracer]

YES SETH, LOL

[Ferret]

I don't even smoke http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e387/Shanerak/Smilies/emot-3.gif

[sbiggi]

YES SETH, LOL

ok, thats what I'm saying.

[oldskoolracer]

ok, thats what I'm saying.


BUT I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR SAYING,LOL

[sbiggi]

BUT I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR SAYING,LOL

I dont even know whats going on anymore..... so I'm done with this thread.

[Dave_L]

So does this mean that M@ can't smoke any more pole at the gay bars?

[HONDA GHANDI]

Aw dammit, I was trying to start smoking too. Now its going to be so much harder to start up this habit. :(

[nicklk]

This came out of the blue.....I wonder if this effects Hookah bars?

[Ferret]

So does this mean that M@ can't smoke any more pole at the gay bars?

He just has to be 15' from the entrance.

[HONDA GHANDI]

So does this mean that M@ can't smoke any more pole at the gay bars?

As long as there is no cancer causing second hand pole floating around, its coo.

[Ferret]

This came out of the blue.....I wonder if this effects Hookah bars?

Hookah bars = cigar bars.

But why do you care? You HATE smoking!

[exciv2000]

why is your choice forced down my throat?

It's simple really: Smokers were forcing their second hand smoke down the throats of non-smokers for decades. Now instead of turning the other cheek, we're giving it back to you and it's pretty obvious you can't handle it. It's a lot easier for a smoker to leave the establishment for 7-10 minutes to have a smoke outside and come back in than it is for a non-smoker to have to endure a 30 minute to 1 hour meal with smoke entering their lungs, then they have to drive home and change their clothes and wash their smelly smokey clothes. If you don't believe in utilitarianism, darwinism will have it's way with you... maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and forever.

[nicklk]

Hookah bars = cigar bars.

But why do you care? You HATE smoking!

I never said I hated smoking, I just dont want to smell like ass after going out, and I want to live a longer and healthier life!

[Ferret]

I never said I hated smoking, I just dont want to smell like ass after going out, and I want to live a longer and healthier life!

Please tell me you smoke hookah.

[Dave_L]

I don't smoke pot.

[Martian]

It's simple really: Smokers were forcing their second hand smoke down the throats of non-smokers for decades.
Really, I made you go to smoking establishments huh? My mental powers are greater than I was aware of. Now the world is doomed, Martian is going to make mental slaves of you all and force you to smoke. First hand that is muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah <-----villanous laugh

[nicklk]

Please tell me you smoke hookah.

I dont......I was just wondering http://forums.offtopic.com/images/smilies/thefinger.gif

[nicklk]

Really, I made you go to smoking establishments huh?

No, but you made me go to the very limited selection non-smoking establishments.....name a bar/club in Denver that is non-smoking....wait there arent any because thats who's fighting for this ban to be stopped!

[Martian]

No, but you made me go to the very limited selection non-smoking establishments.....name a bar/club in Denver that is non-smoking....wait there arent any because thats who's fighting for this ban to be stopped!
You do a better job of making my point than I do. Thanks ;NutKick;

[Dave_L]

You do a better job of making my point than I do. Thanks ;NutKick;

You suck!

[DrJones]

You do a better job of making my point than I do. Thanks ;NutKick;

Your point doesn't matter. The law was passed, the ban will happen. It will stay. How unfair you think it is doesn't matter. You can say all you want in this thread to make yourself feel better. it doesn't matter. It won't help. The ban is going to happen one way or another.

We win, you lose. Bitch all you want but it only makes you look more pathetic for crying so much about it.

:fu:

Also, not all business owners see this as a bad thing. I talked with the owner of the local bar a few weeks ago. That place (Ironworks if anyone knows it) is filled with smoke. You can go there at 2 in the afternoon when no one is there, leave 15 minutes later, and you will smell like smoke.

The owner did his research and says he likes the change. He's a smoker himself, but thinks it will bring more business to his bar. He said he talked with a lot of owners of bars similiar to his in places where this has all ready happened, and they only had good things to say about it.

Buisness owners win, non smokers win, smokers lose. Sounds fine to me.

[Martian]

Your point doesn't matter. The law was passed, the ban will happen. It will stay. How unfair you think it is doesn't matter. You can say all you want in this thread to make yourself feel better. it doesn't matter. It won't help. The ban is going to happen one way or another.

We win, you lose. Bitch all you want but it only makes you look more pathetic for crying so much about it.

:fu:

Also, not all business owners see this as a bad thing. I talked with the owner of the local bar a few weeks ago. That place (Ironworks if anyone knows it) is filled with smoke. You can go there at 2 in the afternoon when no one is there, leave 15 minutes later, and you will smell like smoke.

The owner did his research and says he likes the change. He's a smoker himself, but thinks it will bring more business to his bar. He said he talked with a lot of owners of bars similiar to his in places where this has all ready happened, and they only had good things to say about it.

Buisness owners win, non smokers win, smokers lose. Sounds fine to me.
If thats true then why wasn't his bar non smoking to begin with? Your math don't add up pal.

[Ferret]

I really do think this whole "battle" way of putting things is making this all seem completely retarded. "We, you, us, them, non-smokers versus smokers". If you consider something like this a victory, you're just as dense as the people that would consider a ban on gay marriege being written into the constitution a 'victory'. Wake up :cheers:

[M@]

I DON'T think we are on the same page, why is your choice forced down my
throat like dicks in M@'s mouth at a frat party?


So does this mean that M@ can't smoke any more pole at the gay bars?

He just has to be 15' from the entrance.
Jesus Christ.

Shut the fuck up already.

[DrJones]

If thats true then why wasn't his bar non smoking to begin with? Your math don't add up pal.

Because people went there to smoke. It worked for him. If he made it non-smoking all those people wouldn't go there because they could go other places.

Now that he has no choice in it, and it will be non-smoking (along with all the other bars), most of those people will still go there. They liked that bar, so they went to that bar. If other bars let them smoke, then their need to smoke might outweigh that and he'd lose buisness. However, since all the bars are non-smoking, that factor doesn't come into the decision now, and people will still go there because there is obviously something they like about it. They went there before, they will go there now.

In addition, all the people who didn't go there as much because of the smoke (ie me and my coworkers) will spend a lot more time there.

You are a retard, pal.

If you still think this 'doesn't add up' then go there. Ironworks west of Union on Alameda. Go there and find the owner. Talk to him about it. He is a bar owner, he has a LOT invested in this, he did his research and decided it will be good for his business.

I'm pretty sure he's looked at the issue more than I, or you, or anyone else posting here has. His conclusion is that it will help him.

[M@]

By the way.. here's the reality of the situation.

The ban is going into effect. Life's a bitch, deal with it.

[Ferret]

By the way.. here's the reality of the situation.

The ban is going into effect. Life's a bitch, deal with it.

For once, +1 for Matt

[Martian]

Because people went there to smoke. It worked for him. If he made it non-smoking all those people wouldn't go there because they could go other places.

Now that he has no choice in it, and it will be non-smoking (along with all the other bars), most of those people will still go there.
I love it when people do the leg work for me. The fact is if it was such a popular idea, he would've already been doing it. Now out of your last statement the key words in what makes your math add up are" Now that he has no choice in it, and it will be non-smoking (along with other bars)". The fact of the matter is I do have a very hefty knowledge on what the bar scene is in the entire state. See, I work with a lot of bands,have been to almost every bar in the state that has live music, and I've seen what the clientel of these establishments are. Don't kid yourself into thinking because you know one bar owner that you've got this grip on what is good for business. Ft.Collins, Boulder, Pueblo, Greeley- not once have I been to a bar in any of those cities and seen them packed full of customers like I've seen here in the metro area.I will be pissed about this, I will always be pissed about this. If it were something that effected you in such a similar manner, you'd be pissed to. Because fact of the matter is, rights are being trumped here. Regardless of who's rights over what. And I'm pissed that you and so many others think that is okay because it suits your needs just fine. This will go one of 2 ways from here. 1) The ban fails down the road and everything goes back to how it is now. 2)People become vendictive and even more self rightous people emerge, and start trumping other rights. The second is more than likely at this point what will happen. This country is turning into a communism.

[smithz]

I think the ban really has to do more with people working in these establishments, versus the people that are there as customers.

The problem is more along the lines of this. You have a certain number of non-smoking bars and restaurants. You also have a certain number of people who's careers, by choice or otherwise, are in the service industry working at these bars and establishments. Now if you took all these people that are non-smokers and tried to force them to work only at the non-smoking establishments, there wouldn't be enough jobs for these people. They would find themselves needing work, and of course finding it in establishments that allow smoking. They are working in that environment for many hours a day. And the simple fact that smokers have the right to smoke in their workplace, their choice to not smoke is somewhat removed.

One way to look at this is to simply stop looking at both sides as equals. They really aren't. A person who doesn't smoke can attend an event and be around a lot of people. This persons personal choice to not smoke is not affecting any of the people he is around, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Now look at a person that does smoke. Also a personal choice, but when that person decides to choose to smoke around others, that persons choice is now imposed upon those around them. So you can kind of see why these two people are not complete equal to start with.

Now we have a group of people which are for some reason or another gathered together somewhere. We have both smokers and non-smokers in this group. The non-smokers choice to not smoke is not affecting anyone but themself. The smokers choice to smoke is not only affecting them, the choice maker, but also everyone else in the group. Regardless of whether you are a smoker or not, doesn't it seem logical which people should be considerate and leave the area? The people choosing to not smoke aren't infringing on anyone elses choices, while the people choosing to smoke are.

So why do smoker's feel the need to "blow smoke in non-smokers faces"? It could be very simply the personality trait that leads them to smoke in the first place. Anyone thinking that smoking isn't harmful is just plain naive. So these people consciously choose to say fuck it, I don't care about that, I know it's bad for me, I want to smoke and that's that. So it seems natural a person with this same attitude might also be the one that says that they don't give a fuck about your choice to not smoke, even though that choice doesn't directly affect them whatsoever, and that they don't care that their personal choice infringes directly on yours. You can just go somewhere fucking else while I smoke right here. Hmmmm. The person infringing on someone else's choice via their own choice, is the one that is complaining about being wronged by being asked to go elsewhere. Logically that makes very little sense.

How about an analogy. Jack likes the feeling he gets from radiation poisoning. In particular he favors Plutonium, but occasionally splurges for Uranium. He knows this is unhealthy, and will eventually kill him, but Jack doesn't care. He loves how it makes him feel. Now in order to get the full effect he wears his radioactive stash in a canvas backpack. No lead for Jack, that blocks all the radioactive goodness. Everywhere that Jack goes, people hate him because his choice causes them to get sick and have sores on their skin. These non-radiation poisoning enjoying liberal hippies want to ban Jack from going into restaurants, hospitals, etc. to try and avoid dealing with these ailments. But Jack has a right to do whatever he wants. It's his choice afterall. Who cares that these people are crying about not wanting radiation poisoning. Well Jack's worst nightmare has just come true. These bastards actually passed the law and now Jack must stay at least 50' away from all establishments. So what does Jack do, the radiation rebel that he is? He stands outside and makes sure to give radiation poisoning to everyone he can. That'll teach those bastards to try and take away his right to impose his choice upon them! Go Jack!!!!

[oldskoolracer]

I love it when people do the leg work for me. The fact is if it was such a popular idea, he would've already been doing it. Now out of your last statement the key words in what makes your math add up are" Now that he has no choice in it, and it will be non-smoking (along with other bars)". The fact of the matter is I do have a very hefty knowledge on what the bar scene is in the entire state. See, I work with a lot of bands,have been to almost every bar in the state that has live music, and I've seen what the clientel of these establishments are. Don't kid yourself into thinking because you know one bar owner that you've got this grip on what is good for business. Ft.Collins, Boulder, Pueblo, Greeley- not once have I been to a bar in any of those cities and seen them packed full of customers like I've seen here in the metro area.I will be pissed about this, I will always be pissed about this. If it were something that effected you in such a similar manner, you'd be pissed to. Because fact of the matter is, rights are being trumped here. Regardless of who's rights over what. And I'm pissed that you and so many others think that is okay because it suits your needs just fine. This will go one of 2 ways from here. 1) The ban fails down the road and everything goes back to how it is now. 2)People become vendictive and even more self rightous people emerge, and start trumping other rights. The second is more than likely at this point what will happen. This country is turning into a communism.

:werd:


DOES EVERYONE HERE LIKE GREY?

[Ferret]

Your analogy is ridiculous, smithz. The effects of radiation poisoning and secondhand smoke are about as unrelated as, say, gay people getting civil unions and people marrying animals. Somehow, though, we still end up with these, and people think they're clever things to say :p

[Martian]

I think the ban really has to do more with people working in these establishments, versus the people that are there as customers.

The problem is more along the lines of this. You have a certain number of non-smoking bars and restaurants. You also have a certain number of people who's careers, by choice or otherwise, are in the service industry working at these bars and establishments. Now if you took all these people that are non-smokers and tried to force them to work only at the non-smoking establishments, there wouldn't be enough jobs for these people. They would find themselves needing work, and of course finding it in establishments that allow smoking. They are working in that environment for many hours a day. And the simple fact that smokers have the right to smoke in their workplace, their choice to not smoke is somewhat removed.

One way to look at this is to simply stop looking at both sides as equals. They really aren't. A person who doesn't smoke can attend an event and be around a lot of people. This persons personal choice to not smoke is not affecting any of the people he is around, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Now look at a person that does smoke. Also a personal choice, but when that person decides to choose to smoke around others, that persons choice is now imposed upon those around them. So you can kind of see why these two people are not complete equal to start with.

Now we have a group of people which are for some reason or another gathered together somewhere. We have both smokers and non-smokers in this group. The non-smokers choice to not smoke is not affecting anyone but themself. The smokers choice to smoke is not only affecting them, the choice maker, but also everyone else in the group. Regardless of whether you are a smoker or not, doesn't it seem logical which people should be considerate and leave the area? The people choosing to not smoke aren't infringing on anyone elses choices, while the people choosing to smoke are.

So why do smoker's feel the need to "blow smoke in non-smokers faces"? It could be very simply the personality trait that leads them to smoke in the first place. Anyone thinking that smoking isn't harmful is just plain naive. So these people consciously choose to say fuck it, I don't care about that, I know it's bad for me, I want to smoke and that's that. So it seems natural a person with this same attitude might also be the one that says that they don't give a fuck about your choice to not smoke, even though that choice doesn't directly affect them whatsoever, and that they don't care that their personal choice infringes directly on yours. You can just go somewhere fucking else while I smoke right here. Hmmmm. The person infringing on someone else's choice via their own choice, is the one that is complaining about being wronged by being asked to go elsewhere. Logically that makes very little sense.

How about an analogy. Jack likes the feeling he gets from radiation poisoning. In particular he favors Plutonium, but occasionally splurges for Uranium. He knows this is unhealthy, and will eventually kill him, but Jack doesn't care. He loves how it makes him feel. Now in order to get the full effect he wears his radioactive stash in a canvas backpack. No lead for Jack, that blocks all the radioactive goodness. Everywhere that Jack goes, people hate him because his choice causes them to get sick and have sores on their skin. These non-radiation poisoning enjoying liberal hippies want to ban Jack from going into restaurants, hospitals, etc. to try and avoid dealing with these ailments. But Jack has a right to do whatever he wants. It's his choice afterall. Who cares that these people are crying about not wanting radiation poisoning. Well Jack's worst nightmare has just come true. These bastards actually passed the law and now Jack must stay at least 50' away from all establishments. So what does Jack do, the radiation rebel that he is? He stands outside and makes sure to give radiation poisoning to everyone he can. That'll teach those bastards to try and take away his right to impose his choice upon them! Go Jack!!!!
I'm a very considerate person Smithz, I go outside to smoke when around non smoking groups. I don't "blow smoke" in anyones face. I'm not an asshole just because I light up. This is a situation of someones choices were limited, they want more choices, regardless of who or what gets in thier way. If it were a question of working enviroment, I say deal with it or quit. There isn't any ban protecting me from everyone else on the road while I'm doing my job. Many of whome are very inconsiderate and don't give a crap about how hard it is to stop or steer an 80k lbs tractor trailer. It's a hazard of my job and I accept that. You guys are all to caught up in the fact this is about smoking, instead of realizing what you are telling the government. Your saying that any one persons rights are unimportant when it comes to the will and comfort of those with Power and/or money. And that.............is what this is all really about.

[nicklk]

Your analogy is ridiculous, smithz. The effects of radiation poisoning and secondhand smoke are about as unrelated as, say, gay people getting civil unions and people marrying animals. Somehow, though, we still end up with these, and people think they're clever things to say :p

Its an ANALOGY!!!!! Cigarette smoke and second hand cigarette smoke DOES effect people, how many links to clinical data do you need to get it in your head?? Its not going to give you cancer tommorow and you will die from it on Sunday......neither does radiation posioning!

[smithz]

Your analogy is ridiculous, smithz. The effects of radiation poisoning and secondhand smoke are about as unrelated as, say, gay people getting civil unions and people marrying animals. Somehow, though, we still end up with these, and people think they're clever things to say :p
Only ridiculous if you aren't thinking about it. Believe me, I wasn't trying to tie cancer to it, as you will note, I didn't mention that anywhere.

It makes a good analogy because it's a source that "radiates" outward from the source, causing respectively negative effects as the distance from that source decreases. Similar in nature to a cloud of smoke radiating out from the source. Ill effects are greatest at ground zero and decrease as you move out from there. Catching the simile?

[oldskoolracer]

Only ridiculous if you aren't thinking about it. Believe me, I wasn't trying to tie cancer to it, as you will note, I didn't mention that anywhere.

It makes a good analogy because it's a source that "radiates" outward from the source, causing respectively negative effects as the distance from that source decreases. Similar in nature to a cloud of smoke radiating out from the source. Ill effects are greatest at ground zero and decrease as you move out from there. Catching the simile?


I GOT ONE FOR YEAH


QUIT FUCKING UP NATURE WITH YOUR 4 WHEELIN!!!!!!!!!!


JUST ANOTHER THOUGHT FROM THE CAPS LOCK

[Ferret]

Its an ANALOGY!!!!! Cigarette smoke and second hand cigarette smoke DOES effect people, how many links to clinical data do you need to get it in your head?? Its not going to give you cancer tommorow and you will die from it on Sunday......neither does radiation posioning!

I happen to think it doesn't do a goddamn thing. I've yet to see any real proof, it's very miniscule amounts, and I think I get a lot worse effects from waiting around in a bus station or when I'm stuck in traffic breathing in other car's fumes. I grew up with my parents smoking for 18 years, and I have dealt with the altitude just fine, and I don't have any respitory problems at all. I just think people want something to bitch about, because they don't have a single goddamn thing in life worth arguing over.

PS: don't give me that baby bullshit again. Babies don't go to bars and clubs.

[Ferret]

Only ridiculous if you aren't thinking about it. Believe me, I wasn't trying to tie cancer to it, as you will note, I didn't mention that anywhere.

It makes a good analogy because it's a source that "radiates" outward from the source, causing respectively negative effects as the distance from that source decreases. Similar in nature to a cloud of smoke radiating out from the source. Ill effects are greatest at ground zero and decrease as you move out from there. Catching the simile?

True, if you look at it that way. I just think it's all blown out of proportion.

[smithz]

I'm a very considerate person Smithz, I go outside to smoke when around non smoking groups. I don't "blow smoke" in anyones face. I'm not an asshole just because I light up. This is a situation of someones choices were limited, they want more choices, regardless of who or what gets in thier way. If it were a question of working enviroment, I say deal with it or quit. There isn't any ban protecting me from everyone else on the road while I'm doing my job. Many of whome are very inconsiderate and don't give a crap about how hard it is to stop or steer an 80k lbs tractor trailer. It's a hazard of my job and I accept that. You guys are all to caught up in the fact this is about smoking, instead of realizing what you are telling the government. Your saying that any one persons rights are unimportant when it comes to the will and comfort of those with Power and/or money. And that.............is what this is all really about.
I was not intending to say that all smokers are assholes. I've met you and seem like a reasonable guy. I question that a little when I hear you make comments about standing outside blowing smoke in people's faces. Whether you were trying to make a point, or whether you would actually do that, I have no idea.

Deal with it or quit? What if someone told you that? Is that any different from someone telling you to just go smoke outside?

[smithz]

I GOT ONE FOR YEAH


QUIT FUCKING UP NATURE WITH YOUR 4 WHEELIN!!!!!!!!!!


JUST ANOTHER THOUGHT FROM THE CAPS LOCK
I stay on the roads that are maintained by the NFS. I don't leave trash or my dog's shit when I leave. Nor am I directly infringing upon anyone's rights.

If someone could prove otherwise, I probably would stop.

[doogie06]

I think we need to focus more on our problem with "violins in schools". I don't see the problem with children being able to play with these beautiful instruments, I mean, where would the famous players be in life without.......oh wait, violence in schools.........nevermind.

[Martian]

You guys are all to caught up in the fact this is about smoking, instead of realizing what you are telling the government. Your saying that any one persons rights are unimportant when it comes to the will and comfort of those with Power and/or money. And that.............is what this is all really about.

Just to reitterate incase you've all missed it.

[smithz]

I happen to think it doesn't do a goddamn thing. I've yet to see any real proof, it's very miniscule amounts, and I think I get a lot worse effects from waiting around in a bus station or when I'm stuck in traffic breathing in other car's fumes. I grew up with my parents smoking for 18 years, and I have dealt with the altitude just fine, and I don't have any respitory problems at all. I just think people want something to bitch about, because they don't have a single goddamn thing in life worth arguing over.

PS: don't give me that baby bullshit again. Babies don't go to bars and clubs.
Do you need proof to realize something so elementary?

Would you agree that firsthand smoke is harmful to the smoker? I believe that's been proved a few times in the past.

Would you then agree that the smoke originating in the cigarette, all comes from a single source? There aren't two sources of smoke from a cigarette, it's the burning of the tabacco laced with gunpowder that makes smoke.

Would you then agree that the majority of the smoke inhaled by the smoker, ie. firsthand smoke, is actually drawn via a vacuum through the filter attached to most cigarettes? By agreeing to this you are agreeing with the fact that the proven harmful firsthand smoke is actually mostly a filtered version of the smoke from the cigarettes single source of smoke.

Would you then agree that second hand smoke is made up of a mixture of a) smoke from the cigarettes single source of smoke that is escaping the non-filtered end and b) firsthand smoke exhaled from the smoker's lungs?

Wouldn't it then make sense that second hand smoke is made of of not only firsthand smoke, filtered slightly by both the cigarettes filter and the smokers lungs, but also unfiltered smoke directly from the cigarettes single source of smoke?

So how then do you deduce that firsthand smoke is harmful, while secondhand smoke is not? Wouldn't that mean that the cigarettes filter was actually adding to the smoke whatever is harmful instead of removing it as one might expect? That would be very curiously odd, don't you think?

[rmcdaniels]

Everyone has a choice, go to a place where smoking is permitted, work at a place where smoking is permitted, it's all their choice. The government is taking away people's rights to go to a place where smoking is permitted. If you think that the government regulating our personal choices is a victory, then you are a socialist, congratulations, now sign over all of the rest of your rights and freedoms, along with your property, to the government. Maybe if you toe the party line you will be allowed to reproduce.

I don't like second-hand smoke, which is why I don't let people smoke in my house or car or go to bars/restaurants that have a lot of smokers. It just makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is when people who say they hate second-hand smoke hang out at a bar full of smokers all night and then bitch about their clothes smelling like smoke. It's like banning hammers because every time you hit yourself with one it hurts really bad, fucking evil hammers, get rid of them all! I have been re-seated at restaurants because a party that was smoking was too close to my family. If they wouldn't seat me away from smokers then I'd take my $ elsewhere, although most of the places that I go don't allow smoking, because I don't feel like smelling it, so I make that choice. I wouldn't sit there and take it, then whine about it later on some Internet board, that would make me look like I had sand in my vagina.

No legitimate study has ever shown significant negative effects from second-hand smoke. MTBE in your drinking water and high-fructose corn syrup in your food is doing you and your family far more harm than second-hand smoke, yet most of you don't give a flying fuck about that. This isn't about health, it's about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hey, the government is setting another precedent for restricting a citizen's right to choose! Let's all go have a smoke-free party to celebrate! I'd say let's see how happy you are when they come to take your guns away, but the people who are in favor of this probably think that's a good idea too:rolleyes:

[Weston-work]

Wow, I haven't read any of the posts in this thread and already, it's irritating me. Can you guys just go have your slap-fight and get this over with?

[M@]

Most retarded comment I've heard from you yet, Weston. I'm disappointed.

[nicklk]

Lets battle Net Neutrality!

http://www.internetofthefuture.org/

[rmcdaniels]

Do you need proof to realize something so elementary?

Would you agree that firsthand smoke is harmful to the smoker? I believe that's been proved a few times in the past.

Would you then agree that the smoke originating in the cigarette, all comes from a single source? There aren't two sources of smoke from a cigarette, it's the burning of the tabacco laced with gunpowder that makes smoke.

Would you then agree that the majority of the smoke inhaled by the smoker, ie. firsthand smoke, is actually drawn via a vacuum through the filter attached to most cigarettes? By agreeing to this you are agreeing with the fact that the proven harmful firsthand smoke is actually mostly a filtered version of the smoke from the cigarettes single source of smoke.

Would you agree that second hand smoke is made up of a mixture of a) smoke from the cigarettes single source of smoke that is escaping the non-filtered end and b) firsthand smoke exhaled from the smoker's lungs?

Wouldn't it then make sense that since second hand smoke is made of of not only firsthand smoke, filtered slightly by both the cigarettes filter and the smokers lungs, but also unfiltered smoke directly from the cigarettes single source of smoke?

So how then do you deduce that firsthand smoke is harmful, while secondhand smoke is not? Wouldn't that mean that the cigarettes filter was actually adding to the smoke whatever is harmful instead of removing it as one might expect? That would be very curiously odd, don't you think?


Please stop trying to be a scientist, it takes years of training and practice. It's like me teaching people how to play the violin, technically I know what the strings and bow are for, and how they operate, but that doesn't translate into being able to play.

Real scientists have already determined that second-hand smoke isn't harmful. You can read all about it with just a little research, although I doubt you'd know the difference between a legitimate research project and an anti-smoking propaganda exercise. I'll give you a hint, toxicity is all about the concentration, breathing second-hand smoke exposes you to concentrations of harmful elements that are at a level too low to have the toxicity to cause you harm, because it is mixed with a much greater volume of ambient air. Smoking first-hand concentrates the toxic ingredients to a level that can be harmful (depending on your individual susceptibility to the toxins in question).

[Ferret]

ding ding ding

[Weston-work]

Most retarded comment I've heard from you yet, Weston. I'm disappointed.

Eh, argue all you guys want... it wont change jack shit, other than just make you all pissy at each other. The ban is happening and I'm happy, end of story.

[smithz]

Please stop trying to be a scientist, it takes years of training and practice. It's like me teaching people how to play the violin, technically I know what the strings and bow are for, and how they operate, but that doesn't translate into being able to play.
A scientist I am not, nor am I pretending to be. An engineer I am, so I've had few years of training and practice thinking about things objectively and scientifically. Trying to walk someone through the thought process, that is all.

Real scientists have already determined that second-hand smoke isn't harmful. You can read all about it with just a little research, although I doubt you'd know the difference between a legitimate research project and an anti-smoking propaganda exercise. I'll give you a hint, toxicity is all about the concentration, breathing second-hand smoke exposes you to concentrations of harmful elements that are at a level too low to have the toxicity to cause you harm, because it is mixed with a much greater volume of ambient air. Smoking first-hand concentrates the toxic ingredients to a level that can be harmful (depending on your individual susceptibility to the toxins in question).
I'm aware of toxicity as well as concentration. Walking around in a football stadium and being in an enclosed environment obviously change both. I never stated that secondhand smoke being harmful meant that it would kill you instantly or even give you lung cancer 20 years from now. Something that is not good for you can have many varying degrees. From you statements I gather you do not smoke. I'm sure at some point you've hung around friends in a smoke filled enclosed area for an extended period of time. Have you ever exerience ill effects from this? I have. Saying it isn't harmful at all seems a little silly when the immediate effects are quite obvious to non-smokers. Saying it isn't permanently harmful, could be very true and more likely what the "scientists" are studying.

[M@]

Eh, argue all you guys want... it wont change jack shit, other than just make you all pissy at each other. The ban is happening and I'm happy, end of story.
Werd. Pretty much exactly what I said a few posts ago.

[Nightfall]

It's a lot easier for a smoker to leave the establishment for 7-10 minutes to have a smoke outside and come back in than it is for a non-smoker to have to endure a 30 minute to 1 hour meal with smoke entering their lungs, then they have to drive home and change their clothes and wash their smelly smokey clothes.
I would have to say this is a very obvious but legitimate point. Ohh no I won't be able to have an after dinner smoke immediately after finishing my meal. I'll live.

[Nightfall]

Also I think a lot of us smokers are forgetting that the law states nothing about outside areas/patios/etc. As long as it's not within 15 ft. of the main entrance.

[nicklk]

I just read in the paper that in Arvada that the ban was placed in the city about a month ago, and you have to be 25 feet away from the entrance and no outside patio smoking:/

You will see almost all bars starting construction of patio's, they are a great investment, it will allow smokers to still utilize the bar as well as seperate the smokers so they have a dry, warm area to smoke

[john]

I, for one, will welcome the less hostile environment when the wife and I go out dining/drinking/dancing. Less or no smoking in the clubs we frequent will be nice. Very nice.

[Brian]

I can't wait. I freakin hate smelling like dirty balls everytime I leave a club just because everyone thinks it's cool to smoke.

[M@]

I can't wait. I freakin hate smelling like dirty balls everytime I leave a club just because everyone thinks it's cool to smoke.
And you know what dirty balls smells like because.....?

[s92dx]

I've got a shirt of my own brother it reads "I'm a smoker, so my rights don't matter"

You seriously can't argue with any logic can you. As soon as your rights start infringing on others' rights, say buhbye. It's your right to be able to smoke, nobody is taking that away from you. It's also MY right to not have to breathe your smoke walking down the sidewalk.
Its as easy as walking 15 feet away from the establishment, has smoking seriously made it that difficult for you to walk 15 feet? lungs burning and gasping for air each step?

[s92dx]

don't get me wrong i understand you don't like smoking

sometimes i hate the fact that i do but it is my choice and i like it that way.
i don't smoke in a non-smokers car or try to blow smoke in anyones face
it is rude, but you telling me i can't cause you don't like it is VERY rude i think also

Pot meet Kettle.
No one is saying you can't smoke, just not around places of business. So blowing smoke in someones face is rude, but asking for you to maybe smoke a few feet from the door is VERY rude?
Nobody is arguing the fact that it's your right to go smoke after a meal. You know what I like to do after a meal? Go outside and get some air, which I believe is my right. Unfortunately that leaves room for only one kind of person. I could go outside and breathe your smoke, or you could go outside and try to light up my air. both wouldn't work out well. So who are they going to favor, the one slowly poisoning himself and others around, or the one basically inhaling what his body is meant to inhale to survive?

Think about it, it's your right to get drunk and drive around on your property, if it's big enough. I could care less if you crashed and died, one less dumbass in the world. Start driving around on public roads where people are endangered and all of a sudden it's not your right. Same logic.

[Ferret]

Now that we've ignored what the real issue was here anyway, hey.. it is nice when there's no more smoke smell in resturants :cheers:

[nxbrennan]

Everyone has a choice, go to a place where smoking is permitted, work at a place where smoking is permitted, it's all their choice. The government is taking away people's rights to go to a place where smoking is permitted. If you think that the government regulating our personal choices is a victory, then you are a socialist, congratulations, now sign over all of the rest of your rights and freedoms, along with your property, to the government. Maybe if you toe the party line you will be allowed to reproduce.

I don't like second-hand smoke, which is why I don't let people smoke in my house or car or go to bars/restaurants that have a lot of smokers. It just makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is when people who say they hate second-hand smoke hang out at a bar full of smokers all night and then bitch about their clothes smelling like smoke. It's like banning hammers because every time you hit yourself with one it hurts really bad, fucking evil hammers, get rid of them all! I have been re-seated at restaurants because a party that was smoking was too close to my family. If they wouldn't seat me away from smokers then I'd take my $ elsewhere, although most of the places that I go don't allow smoking, because I don't feel like smelling it, so I make that choice. I wouldn't sit there and take it, then whine about it later on some Internet board, that would make me look like I had sand in my vagina.

No legitimate study has ever shown significant negative effects from second-hand smoke. MTBE in your drinking water and high-fructose corn syrup in your food is doing you and your family far more harm than second-hand smoke, yet most of you don't give a flying fuck about that. This isn't about health, it's about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Hey, the government is setting another precedent for restricting a citizen's right to choose! Let's all go have a smoke-free party to celebrate! I'd say let's see how happy you are when they come to take your guns away, but the people who are in favor of this probably think that's a good idea too:rolleyes:
+infinity

Most intelligent response so far, IMO.

[Martian]

You seriously can't argue with any logic can you. As soon as your rights start infringing on others' rights, say buhbye. It's your right to be able to smoke, nobody is taking that away from you. It's also MY right to not have to breathe your smoke walking down the sidewalk.
Its as easy as walking 15 feet away from the establishment, has smoking seriously made it that difficult for you to walk 15 feet? lungs burning and gasping for air each step?
Quit being a synical dumbass and try reading a whole post before laying judgment on me. You've missed the point entirely and I suggest you go back and read RMcdaniels first post on this thread. If you can manage to stay tuned to it long enough you will find what is more my point. This is not about smoking.

And just for the record I agree that Rogers post was by far and large the best in this thread. He is a well spoken individual.

[newt2]

Like has already been mentioned, most of the negative effects of second hand smoke are so overstated that you can fairly label them propaganda. It really is nothing more than junk science to push a political agenda at any cost.

I know some of you guys like the ban, but are you really comfortable with the government going around telling you things that aren't true and then using them to control people? I always hear people say that it's for our own good, that's the excuse we use with children. Are you all children? Do you need to be lied to for your own good?

I'm sorry, I don't care what side of the debate it comes down on, the side that relies on lies to support it's claims is always wrong. If you're in the right you don't need to lie.

[myshtern]

Smoking is like freely pissing on the street.
It wont do any harm to those around you, but so many people find it disgusting that it is illegal.

Go piss in a bathroom or go smoke in a designated area.

[Brian]

I know that the effects of smoking are overstated, but I still don't like going out and smelling like smoke. That's the big + to this for me personally.

[Ferret]

..and we're still arguing about smoking :worshippy

[myshtern]

..and we're still arguing about smoking :worshippy
I don't know any lawyers here, so what else would we argue about?

Anyway, seems like the legal arument ends at:
"Suthers said his office has not found any cases of smoking bans overturned on substantive constitutional grounds."

[newt2]

Smoking is like freely pissing on the street.
It wont do any harm to those around you, but so many people find it disgusting that it is illegal.

Go piss in a bathroom or go smoke in a designated area.

Actually pissing on the street is against the law because it spreads disease.

I know that the effects of smoking are overstated, but I still don't like going out and smelling like smoke. That's the big + to this for me personally.

You know I like you Brian, but I have to ask... Should we ban farting in public because it smells bad too? :)

[oldskoolracer]

Actually pissing on the street is against the law because it spreads disease.



You know I like you Brian, but I have to ask... Should we ban farting in public because it smells bad too? :)


yeah but i like pissing in the street

[myshtern]

Actually pissing on the street is against the law because it spreads disease.

Urine is sterile and spreads about as disease as smoking.

[newt2]

Urine is sterile and spreads about as disease as smoking.

It's only sterile for a few seconds after it comes out of your body. At that point it's a high nutrient breeding ground for disease.

It's not what's in urine that makes it bad, it's what can grow in puddles of it.

[Brian]

lol, I see where you are coming from.

Actually pissing on the street is against the law because it spreads disease.



You know I like you Brian, but I have to ask... Should we ban farting in public because it smells bad too? :)

[myshtern]

It's only sterile for a few seconds after it comes out of your body. At that point it's a high nutrient breeding ground for disease.

It's not what's in urine that makes it bad, it's what can grow in puddles of it.
Wont any warm liquid with a biological matter be a breeding ground for all kinds of bacteria?

[newt2]

Wont any warm liquid with a biological matter be a breeding ground for all kinds of bacteria?

Absolutely but not as much as piss. Piss is high in ammonia concentration. Amonnia is the #1 food for aerobic bacteria (anyone with a fish tank knows this, they used to start the biological filter on fish tanks by pissing into them). Other things need to decompose before they have the same ammonia content and usually they'll be eaten by animals or washed away by rain before that happens. With piss you're basically dropping decomposed matter on the ground.

[V8SpankR]

Smoking area within restaurants is like having a pissing area in a swimming pool.
I personally think it should be left up to the espablishment of privatly owned businesses. I'm a non smoker so I it doesn't affect me but it'll be kinda nice going to a club and leaving not smelling like a cigarette.

[Weston-work]

Smoking area within restaurants is like having a pissing area in a swimming pool.
I personally think it should be left up to the espablishment of privatly owned businesses. I'm a non smoker so I it doesn't affect me but it'll be kinda nice going to a club and leaving not smelling like a cigarette.

:werd:

[David]

Smoking is so underrated.

[statik]

Like has already been mentioned, most of the negative effects of second hand smoke are so overstated that you can fairly label them propaganda. It really is nothing more than junk science to push a political agenda at any cost.

I know some of you guys like the ban, but are you really comfortable with the government going around telling you things that aren't true and then using them to control people? I always hear people say that it's for our own good, that's the excuse we use with children. Are you all children? Do you need to be lied to for your own good?

I'm sorry, I don't care what side of the debate it comes down on, the side that relies on lies to support it's claims is always wrong. If you're in the right you don't need to lie.

Word.

Anyway, seems like the legal arument ends at:
"Suthers said his office has not found any cases of smoking bans overturned on substantive constitutional grounds."

Happened in New Jersey, IIRC. A group of restaurant and bar owners argued that exempting casinos from a smoking ban constituted discrimination, and they won a permanent injunction. Why a judge believes that to be impertinent is beyond me.

Whether you're a smoker or not, any support for a ban is nonsensical, unreasonable and ill-conceived. Devastating arguments are available upon request.

[Brian]

I see why some are upset about the "civil rights" part of the debate, but honestly i've been happy about this ever since I heard about it being passed in other states some years ago. I hate having to smell smoke when i'm eating. I hate smelling smoke at bars and clubs. It will make things MUCH nicer for us non smokers who don't like throwing our clothes away the next morning.

[newt2]

I see why some are upset about the "civil rights" part of the debate, but honestly i've been happy about this ever since I heard about it being passed in other states some years ago. I hate having to smell smoke when i'm eating. I hate smelling smoke at bars and clubs. It will make things MUCH nicer for us non smokers who don't like throwing our clothes away the next morning.


What we really should do is have seperate establishments for each, which I think we're going to find that this law will allow. If a bar converts to a "smoking lounge" they'll be able to have smoking. Tobacco and alchohol are like the adult equivalent of chocolate and peanut butter. :)

As for resturaunts, doesn't bother me really. I'm the only smoker in my family so we never sit in smoking sections anyway.

[myshtern]

Word.



Happened in New Jersey, IIRC. A group of restaurant and bar owners argued that exempting casinos from a smoking ban constituted discrimination, and they won a permanent injunction. Why a judge believes that to be impertinent is beyond me.
I see it like this: How many casinos are there in Colorado? How many bars? If that handfull of casinos take up a no smoking policy, you smokers have no other casino to go to. I see it as a protection for the smokers.

Also, most casinos have incredible ventilation systems. I remember I was at some casino a few years ago, someone was smoking maybe 4 feet away from me (indoors), and I couldnt smell it.

Oh that and the casinos probably have some good Lobbyists in the state congress.

[nicklk]

Oh that and the casinos probably have some good Lobbyists in the state congress.

No, they just have Native Americans. Casino's are on indian reservations, thats how gambling is legal in casinos.....thats why smoking is legal in casino's...

[myshtern]

So what smokers are really mad about is the race card that Indians have in the government and not that the judge decided against their petition.

[Martian]

No, they just have Native Americans. Casino's are on indian reservations, thats how gambling is legal in casinos.....thats why smoking is legal in casino's...
That is not true in the state of Colorado. 90% of casinos here are on private land held by private companies. And yes they have huge lobbying power.

[Weston-work]

I smoke pot.

I'm disappointed in you, Davey_L. :(


:D

[Dave_L]

I smoke cock.


You sicko!

[stu]

No, they just have Native Americans. Casino's are on indian reservations, thats how gambling is legal in casinos.....thats why smoking is legal in casino's...

At first I thought that this was a joke post and laughed. You're not serious right?

[Weston-work]

I <3 xosunrisexo and will obey her every command, because I'm whipped! I like it when she pretends to be the man.

TMI, Dave. :rofl:

[Dave_L]

I still smoke cock. I'm really just jealous of Dave_L and his m4d jdm tyt3 girl skillz. Why do I have to be so hairy? :(

It's ok. Buy my book and you'll be ramming it in to girls in no time! :D

[Conrad]

It's ok. Buy my book and you'll be ramming it in to girls in no time! :D

:rofl:

[stu]

Book? What a queer. Even I have a video. You need visuals to learn the trade Dave, not paragraphs.

[Conrad]

Book? What a queer. Even I have a video. You need visuals to learn the trade Dave, not paragraphs.

:rofl: pwn3d

[Dave_L]

Book? What a queer. Even I have a video. You need visuals to learn the trade Dave, not paragraphs.

I like to encourage creativity. I just plant the seed and you get to modify it to fit your abilities. Plus, I'm not gonna give away ALL my techniques. ;)

[Bedlam]

I hate smoking. If you want to fucking kill yourself, why should you be able to cry about where you can do it? You dont see people blowing their brains out in bars because its "their rights" or some shit. I hate how smokers think we fucking owe something to them...as if.

The only thing we owe smokers is a freaking cluepon..hopefully they can see how stupid/expensive/gross their habit is.

[Ferret]

I hate smoking. If you want to fucking kill yourself, why should you be able to cry about where you can do it? You dont see people blowing their brains out in bars because its "their rights" or some shit. I hate how smokers think we fucking owe something to them...as if.

The only thing we owe smokers is a freaking cluepon..hopefully they can see how stupid/expensive/gross their habit is.

Another example of someone that really needs actual purpose in thier life, lol.
You're that mad at people that smoke? What, are you in customer service or something? :rofl:

[Ferret]

No, they just have Native Americans. Casino's are on indian reservations, thats how gambling is legal in casinos.....thats why smoking is legal in casino's...

Ahaha, Blackhawk is an Indian reservation? Fooled me! :rofl:

This is THE best thread, ever.

[stu]

No one is losing their right to smoke, just in certain places. No one is bitching that you can't smoke at parent teacher conferences, at hospitals, in movie theatres, and on air planes. I bet at first people bitched about not being able to smoke there as well, but they got the fuck over it. You can still smoke all you want, just not in a non-smoking bar.

[Martian]

you guys really need to get over the smoking part of this issue and look a little deeper into things. None of us mind going outside to smoke, in fact most of us already do as such, including myself.

[Varao]

The ban happened up here in FTC awhile ago. I am a smoker and it did suck that I couldnt smoke at my favorite bar anymore but I got use to it. But at the same time it hurt alot of local bars up here. My favorite bar shut down cause no one came in anymore. I saw alot of bars go out or try to change into clubs and fail. But there is up and down sides to it I guess.

[Brian]

so people stop drinking when they can no longer smoke? I thought most people started smoking when they drank, thus I don't see how this would hurt a bar. I also heard that overall most businesses saw an INCREASE in revenue after the smoking ban was put in place.

[Brian]

Exactly, my mom and I have been forcing my dad to smoke outside as far back as I can remember. Well at least when i'm not busy reminding him about how his mom died from lung cancer and how his dad can't come to the house because it's hard for him to leave now that he is on oxygen and can't do anything (both were heavy smokers)

you guys really need to get over the smoking part of this issue and look a little deeper into things. None of us mind going outside to smoke, in fact most of us already do as such, including myself.

[Varao]

so people stop drinking when they can no longer smoke? I thought most people started smoking when they drank, thus I don't see how this would hurt a bar. I also heard that overall most businesses saw an INCREASE in revenue after the smoking ban was put in place.

I dont think that was the case at all just that the bars I went to alot had a clientel that smoked that they relied on they were not big bars that atracted lots of attention didnt serve food just pool, darts and beer that were locally owned. The smoking ban hurt these bars in my neck of the woods but I am sure big chains did see an increase in biz. but for the little guy that had just a little dive that I called my bar it put him out of biz.

So there is up and down sides to it for sure. I have no issues having to go outside to smoke. So I dont get dirty looks from folks lol. But I also miss my bar:(

[Nate]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/06/27/involuntary.smoking.ap/index.html

[stu]

I dont think that was the case at all just that the bars I went to alot had a clientel that smoked that they relied on they were not big bars that atracted lots of attention didnt serve food just pool, darts and beer that were locally owned. The smoking ban hurt these bars in my neck of the woods but I am sure big chains did see an increase in biz. but for the little guy that had just a little dive that I called my bar it put him out of biz.

So there is up and down sides to it for sure. I have no issues having to go outside to smoke. So I dont get dirty looks from folks lol. But I also miss my bar:(


This also sounds like the perfect kind of bar to submit to be a smoking lounge. I feel for the owner and wish he would have thought to see if he could change his status.

[Brian]

I agree, small places like that should probably try to get the exempt status. I know that the martini bar I go to here was able to get exempt status because they sell cigars. I expect the smoke there though (it's a martini bar). It's the clubs and stuff that i'll be happy to see smoke free.

[V8SpankR]

You guys ever see teh smoking cublicle at DIA? Seeing that should make people not want to smoke,that thing is disgusting and teh smeel has to be horrendous. We need to get a pic and post it here when it's full of about 20 smokers all going to town.

[smithz]

Don't worry, that secondhand smoke is harmless. Just like you can't get high off secondhand pot smoke. :rolleyes:

[V8SpankR]

Don't worry, that secondhand smoke is harmless. Just like you can't get high off secondhand pot smoke. :rolleyes:

Maybe a non-smoker of pot but a contact high is not much more than a mild buzz and Pot smoke has been very recently determined to not really be a health issue and doesn't cause cancer unlike ciggie smoke.

[smithz]

Maybe a non-smoker of pot but a contact high is not much more than a mild buzz and Pot smoke has been very recently determined to not really be a health issue and doesn't cause cancer unlike ciggie smoke.
Not exactly what my point was...

[lswhitecivic]

After all these pages of bitching I still don't see why smokers are saying that their rights are being violated. Your rights aren't being violated, the government is making it so you can't violate the rights of everyone else in this country that doesn't smoke by lighting up whereever you feel like. I applaud all smokers that choose to go somewhere else to smoke instead of lighting up around a bunch of nonsmokers but the truth is that's not the norm. Most smokers will tell the nonsmokers to move even if there is 3 times as many nonsmokers.

P.S. I can't believe that people are trying to say this is an underlying conspiracy to trample the constitution and beginning of the Socialist movement. That's just retarded.

[Brian]

After all these pages of bitching I still don't see why smokers are saying that their rights are being violated. Your rights aren't being violated, the government is making it so you can't violate the rights of everyone else in this country that doesn't smoke by lighting up whereever you feel like. I applaud all smokers that choose to go somewhere else to smoke instead of lighting up around a bunch of nonsmokers but the truth is that's not the norm. Most smokers will tell the nonsmokers to move even if there is 3 times as many nonsmokers.

P.S. I can't believe that people are trying to say this is an underlying conspiracy to trample the constitution and beginning of the Socialist movement. That's just retarded.

:werd: :werd:

[DrJones]

I'd also like to know why people think their rights are being violated.

If you think that, you are a fucking moron.

Lots of guys like to masturbate. Masturbating is legal. Guy's consider it a hobby and do it daily. Does that mean that they should be allowed to masturbate in public? Should you have to be at a club/bar/restraunt/store and see some dude standing there with his pants around his ankles going to town?

Fuck no. People can masturbate in private.

People are legally allowed to own guns. People choose to shoot and own guns. Should people be allowed to discharge weapons in public places without concern?

Fuck no. People can shoot where it is safe to do so.

If you think your rights as a smoker are being unfairly trampled on by this you are a retard. Second hand smoke is dangerous. Smoke does create health problems for people working in that establishment. It also causes damage to the surrounding area (walls and what not).

If you don't think second hand smoke is harmfull you are a fucking retard. If you do for some reason believe that, why don't you pick up the 670 page scientific report that the (Republican appointed) Surgeon General released yesterday on the very harmfull nature of 2nd hand smoke on children. The results of that report are interesting enough that lawmakers are currently considering trying to pass laws making it a crime to smoke around children.

Fuck you smokers. You've had your time. It's ended.

[lswhitecivic]

If you don't think second hand smoke is harmfull you are a fucking retard.

Is that what you were going for?

[statik]

Nice to know people are forgetting that poor health is caused by a large number of factors, primarily diet and exercise.

You know what? If you've ever eaten a Big Mac in your life, you have no right to tell me I'm making you sick.

[myshtern]

Yeah! Fuck the smokers! Burn them at the stake!!!!

[DrJones]

Is that what you were going for?

Yep, Thanks :)

[DrJones]

Nice to know people are forgetting that poor health is caused by a large number of factors, primarily diet and exercise.

You know what? If you've ever eaten a Big Mac in your life, you have no right to tell me I'm making you sick.

Nice try retard.

You are wrong.

When I eat a big mac at McDonalds I'm not taking out the fat and shoving it down into the arteries of all the children around.

If I choose to eat the big mac I can also choose to burn the fat off. Shit in my lungs that your addicted ass put there is a little more difficult to get rid of.

[myshtern]

lol, doctor jones came in here with a mission.

I'm going to play devils advocate. My 2nd great uncle smoked two packs a day and drank like a fish. I remember visiting him in LA when I was like 12, the man drank entire box of wine in one day and his wife was yelling at him for smoking more than 2 packs of cigaretttes that day.

He lived to the age of 95. I know it's common knowledge that cigarettes arent bad for you, but it's not a solid science. Different stuff has different effects on peoples bodies. A little second hand smoke probably wont do much.

[stu]

Different stuff has different effects on peoples bodies. A little second hand smoke probably wont do much.

Exactly. Which means that it goes both ways. I once watched a show about a girl who's skin was allergic to water. That's rare, but I'm sure that there are far more people who are hyper sensitive to smoke. I just like to smoke pipes, but I can do that at home (especially since people just make fun of me when I do it in public anyway).

[DrJones]

lol, doctor jones came in here with a mission.

I'm going to play devils advocate. My 2nd great uncle smoked two packs a day and drank like a fish. I remember visiting him in LA when I was like 12, the man drank entire box of wine in one day and his wife was yelling at him for smoking more than 2 packs of cigaretttes that day.

He lived to the age of 95. I know it's common knowledge that cigarettes arent bad for you, but it's not a solid science. Different stuff has different effects on peoples bodies. A little second hand smoke probably wont do much.

Allow me to translate this:

I am not a doctor, nor have any medical training of any sort. I also don't have any significant scientific background. I am not an expert in the field of smoking, and haven't really done any kind of academic research on the topic at all.

However, even though there are Huge 700+ page reports (http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/report/), written by people who are doctors, who have done research, and who are experts in the field, with scientific evidence (from several different people of different fields of specialty working for different organizations) that second hand smoke is very damaging, I am going to have to go ahead and disagree, saying that it isn't harmfull at all for the following reason that leaves out pretty much any form of logical reasoning ___________

Now, if you don't want to think that way any longer, and you are interested in educating yourself on the matter, you can read this (http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/secondhandsmoke.pdf).

It has information based on scientific tests about second hand smoke. It won't make you an expert, but it will give you a good idea of the major points experts think you should know about.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/secondhandsmoke/

if anyone wants more info.

[M@]

DrJones FTW

[M@]

I remember visiting him in LA when I was like 12, the man drank entire box of wine in one day
:rofl: An entire BOX of whine... :D :rofl: :D :rofl:

[myshtern]

Allow me to translate this:

I am not a doctor, nor have any medical training of any sort. I also don't have any significant scientific background. I am not an expert in the field of smoking, and haven't really done any kind of academic research on the topic at all.
I must have been speaking a different language because your translation was a little off :fu:

My point was that some people can smoke 2 packs a day for 50 years and it wont do anything to them. Other people can inhale some second hand smoke and claim they got asthma from it. It's not a science, different bodies react different.

Even doctors say that you can smoke for 2 years before the damage becomes irreversible.

[DrJones]

I must have been speaking a different language because your translation was a little off :fu:

My point was that some people can smoke 2 packs a day for 50 years and it wont do anything to them. Other people can inhale some second hand smoke and claim they got asthma from it. It's not a science, different bodies react different.

Even doctors say that you can smoke for 2 years before the damage becomes irreversible.

No, I was dead on.

What you are saying isn't any kind of valid arguement in this area. Just like stu said, in the medical field there are lots and lots of variations of different sorts of people and diseases and what not. People react to things differently. Everyone knows that. You stating that means nothing and does nothing but show your ignorance of the issue.

The point is, that studies have shown with lots of evidence that the smoke is harmfull enough to a large number of people. Yes, some might not be effected, but research shows that enough are effected and in a large enough way that we should seriously consider this issue and it's full impact.

[M@]

It's not a science, different bodies react different
Actually.. the way bodies react to things IS a science... is it not?

[newt2]

If you don't think second hand smoke is harmfull you are a fucking retard.

Angry much? Jesus, I've never seen somone curse so much in a conversation that was civilized up until this point in my entire internet posting career. Congrats on reducing this thread to the lowest common demoninator. Thumbs up. :rolleyes:

As for being a retard for not beliving it, I guess the British Journal of Medicine and the scientists at UCLA who have conducted the single most comprehensive study on smoking are a bunch of retards.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F05%2F16%2Fwsmoke16 .xml

http://www.fumento.com/disease/smoking.html

[Loud_Scott]

using the 'interweb' one can find statistics and research to support anything...

Here's a bunch of nuts that think the world is flat... (http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm)

If smoking is bad for you, why wouldn't second hand smoke be bad for you? Sure, maybe not AS bad as first hand, but it's not doing your body any favors either.

For everyone complaining about losing their rights; I'ld be more worried that the government is listening into your phone calls without a warrant, or that they'll subpoena a search engine and see what kinda crazy shit you peruse in the privacy of your own home.....

[newt2]

using the 'interweb' one can find statistics and research to support anything...

So you're saying that UCLA and the British Journal of medicine are liars? OK....

[Varao]

I choose to smoke I know its bad for me, but I am also very aware of the dangers of second hand smoke. I always go