Soldiers prefer AK's?

[Weston-work]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060417/od_nm/russia_kalashnikov_dc;_ylt=AuSzKh8DCTBCKAzfHqnPDf6 s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3NW1oMDRpBHNlYwM3NTc-

[Conrad]

Thats BS... I would take a AK over an M16 only in a mass fire fight... In a real tactical environment where accuracy counts M16 hands down ownz! The only thing about the AK that is better is that it is a tank when it comes to getting dirty and jamming... You can fire it in the mud!

[Conrad]

And that story is bullshit about iraq... maybe in vietnam. But we werent allowed to use the Aks or RPGs for shit! It was a centcom rule. Too many people killing themselves because they didnt know how to use them. We had a warrant officer kill himself and 3 other guys trying to use an RPG

[oldskoolracer]

And that story is bullshit about iraq... maybe in vietnam. But we werent allowed to use the Aks or RPGs for shit! It was a centcom rule. Too many people killing themselves because they didnt know how to use them. We had a warrant officer kill himself and 3 other guys trying to use an RPG


YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, that's sad

[flossyourteeth]

Well he WAS a warrant officer... (which is somewhat a bad rank)
It's the worst rank of an officer you can be; you come in as a 2nd Lieutenant. Plus many officers don't have much experience in the field, seeing as they came in through college and didn't really work their way up the ladder. If you started when you were 18 at boot camp as infantry or something; then you would have had much more experience, but you'd still be a lower ranking. I think Master Seargant Major is the highest rank below an officer (depending on which branch you're going by).

But anyone that is in the military and anyone that is handling an RPG; should probably know what they're doing before they hit the "fire" button.

[Conrad]

Well he WAS a warrant officer... (which is somewhat a bad rank)
It's the worst rank of an officer you can be; you come in as a 2nd Lieutenant. Plus many officers don't have much experience in the field, seeing as they came in through college and didn't really work their way up the ladder. If you started when you were 18 at boot camp as infantry or something; then you would have had much more experience, but you'd still be a lower ranking. I think Master Seargant Major is the highest rank below an officer (depending on which branch you're going by).

But anyone that is in the military and anyone that is handling an RPG; should probably know what they're doing before they hit the "fire" button.


Well unless your really old or from germany or something.... you dont know what the hell youre talking about. A warrant officer is usually more intelligent then a regular commisioned officer. And a warrant officer is never a 2nd Lt. A warrant officer is someone who was prior enlisted and was selected to be a Specialist in a certain field and they have a technical know how. And there isnt a single service in the US right now that has the rank of Master Sergeant (<-thats how its spelled) major! But as usual people like to talk! And I would put my money on if I handed you an RPG that wasnt loaded you wouldnt know one end from the other!

[flossyourteeth]

Well unless your really old or from germany or something.... you dont know what the hell youre talking about. A warrant officer is usually more intelligent then a regular commisioned officer. And a warrant officer is never a 2nd Lt. A warrant officer is someone who was prior enlisted and was selected to be a Specialist in a certain field and they have a technical know how. And there isnt a single service in the US right now that has the rank of Master Sergeant (<-thats how its spelled) major! But as usual people like to talk! And I would put my money on if I handed you an RPG that wasnt loaded you wouldnt know one end from the other!


Wow Mr. Whiney. Sorry I spelled "Sergeant" wrong. There is a Master Sgt., and there is a Sergeant Major, sorry for putting two and two together. Going off of the USMC rankings the highest rank possible is a Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps; or an E9.
Warrant Officers get paid less, and are below in the ranking of any 'regular' or commissioned officer. A Warrant Officer only gets a commission if he's promoted to a Chief Warrant Officer 2. The above said that it was simply a Warrant Officer... Plus I've met a Warrant Officer before; he was probably mid-20's; Usually people in their mid-20's haven't served in the military prior to that, unless they served their 4 years after enlisting, left, went to school, then came back. Even though if you join the military right after College you start as a 2nd Lieutenant.
Warrant Officers specialize in a certain aspect or another; generally military technologies or capabilities. Apparently that particular Warrant Officer wasn't specializing in Tactical Weaponry or something like that....

Regardless; if that Officer didn't know what he was doing; he shoudln't have been handling an RPG - Plus the three surrounding units should have noticed something wrong.

And finally, I'm not in the military; I never once claimed I knew how to launch an RPG; let alone a standard M16 or AK or any other type of weaponry besides a paintball gun and a BB gun.

[Conrad]

Wow Mr. Whiney. Sorry I spelled "Sergeant" wrong. There is a Master Sgt., and there is a Sergeant Major, sorry for putting two and two together. Going off of the USMC rankings the highest rank possible is a Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps; or an E9.
Warrant Officers get paid less, and are below in the ranking of any 'regular' or commissioned officer. A Warrant Officer only gets a commission if he's promoted to a Chief Warrant Officer 2. The above said that it was simply a Warrant Officer... Plus I've met a Warrant Officer before; he was probably mid-20's; Usually people in their mid-20's haven't served in the military prior to that, unless they served their 4 years after enlisting, left, went to school, then came back. Even though if you join the military right after College you start as a 2nd Lieutenant.
Warrant Officers specialize in a certain aspect or another; generally military technologies or capabilities. Apparently that particular Warrant Officer wasn't specializing in Tactical Weaponry or something like that....

Regardless; if that Officer didn't know what he was doing; he shoudln't have been handling an RPG - Plus the three surrounding units should have noticed something wrong.

And finally, I'm not in the military; I never once claimed I knew how to launch an RPG; let alone a standard M16 or AK or any other type of weaponry besides a paintball gun and a BB gun.

Your right you dont know what the hell you are talking about so dont claim to. Any Marine would hands down rather follow a Warrant officer then a butter bar. And 2nd Lts typically know to step wide because experience in the Marine Corps goes a long way farther then the brass on your collar. You are right they dont make as much as them either. But no one joins the military as a warrant officer.. And no one below E6 "typically" can apply to be one. And most E6s are in an average of 8 to 10 years. And I dont believe that any warrant officer gets a commision unless he becomes LDO. And in that case he becomes a captain. I could be wrong on the commision part. And being that you looked up the highest ranking enlisted in the marine corps and found SgtMaj of the Marine Corps, or an E9 you put it, you continue to show your ignorance. SgtMaj or the Marine Corps is a billet not really a rank persay but I will let that slide. There are tons of Sergeants Major in the Marine Corps and they are staffed by billet... some billets being higher then others. SgtMaj of the Marine Corps being highest or considered Senior Enlisted in the MC. Either way you are ignorant to the military so dont comment on it unless you have some sort of experience with it.

[Conrad]

Oh and the comment "Tactical Weaponry" Is there any other kind?

We could use that tactical nuke to destroy targets in Iran or I could tactically place this knife in the enemy's ribcage.

[flossyourteeth]

Your right you dont know what the hell you are talking about so dont claim to. Any Marine would hands down rather follow a Warrant officer then a butter bar. And 2nd Lts typically know to step wide because experience in the Marine Corps goes a long way farther then the brass on your collar. You are right they dont make as much as them either. But no one joins the military as a warrant officer.. And no one below E6 "typically" can apply to be one. And most E6s are in an average of 8 to 10 years. And I dont believe that any warrant officer gets a commision unless he becomes LDO. And in that case he becomes a captain. I could be wrong on the commision part. And being that you looked up the highest ranking enlisted in the marine corps and found SgtMaj of the Marine Corps, or an E9 you put it, you continue to show your ignorance. SgtMaj or the Marine Corps is a billet not really a rank persay but I will let that slide. There are tons of Sergeants Major in the Marine Corps and they are staffed by billet... some billets being higher then others. SgtMaj of the Marine Corps being highest or considered Senior Enlisted in the MC. Either way you are ignorant to the military so dont comment on it unless you have some sort of experience with it.


Ok asshole... You continue to assume that I know EVERYTHING about the Military; I never once claimed to. I simply asked my buddy, he's in the Marines; he's an E3 after about 5 months (since mid Oct.). I've known for awhile the ranking system; or at least a general idea of how it works.

And explain to me how a Sergeant Major of the MC isn't a rank............. I'm baffled that you don't call it a "rank"


And what experience in the military do you have? Out of curiousity.

[Conrad]

Ok asshole... You continue to assume that I know EVERYTHING about the Military; I never once claimed to. I simply asked my buddy, he's in the Marines; he's an E3 after about 5 months (since mid Oct.). I've known for awhile the ranking system; or at least a general idea of how it works.
General Idea as in you are smart enough to type into google. The reason you pissed me off is your ignorant post about warrant officers..

And explain to me how a Sergeant Major of the MC isn't a rank............. I'm baffled that you don't call it a "rank"

Because an E9 is an E9 there are a several hundred in the marine corps! They are placed by "billet" not rank because they are all E9s. You could call it a rank but its not really. As much as you would call SgtMaj MARFORPAC a rank. You see the billets coincide with the commanding officer equivelent. Typically a LtCol and above in a CO position has a senior enlisted SgtMaj. so there are 6 "billet" levels of SgtMaj. LtCol, Col, 1 star, 2 star...... etc. Sgt Maj of the Marine corps being the 4 star in charge of the marine corps equivilent. The only reason I dont shoot that comment completely down is because SgtMaj of the Marine Corps at least gets a different insignia on his arm but no more stripes of rank.


And what experience in the military do you have? Out of curiousity.

My dad was in. :rolleyes:

[Weston-work]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

My dad was in. :rolleyes:

Hahahah... I can't wait until he takes that seriously and tries to trash on you for it... :rofl:

[Jackrabbit]

I always heard the problem with the A1s in Vietnam was some dirty ammo that was sorted out after a little while. I've owned and shot a lot of AKs and ARs and I'd be hard pressed to pick the AK74 over the M16A2. My AKs weren't accurate for shit... but they would eat any ammo you fed them. I've only had a couple problems with my ARs, always due to laquered ammo or crappy aftermarket mags.

[Weston-work]

I always heard the problem with the A1s in Vietnam was some dirty ammo that was sorted out after a little while. I've owned and shot a lot of AKs and ARs and I'd be hard pressed to pick the AK74 over the M16A2. My AKs weren't accurate for shit... but they would eat any ammo you fed them. I've only had a couple problems with my ARs, always due to laquered ammo or crappy aftermarket mags.

Yeah, I read that the problem with the Vietnam-era rifles were a combination of dirty ammo and a total lack of cleaning. They later shipped them to soldiers with a cleaning kit. I haven't had any problem with my AR-15, other than one crappy aftermarket magazine that doesn't feed so well... all of my quality mags work great.

[flossyourteeth]

General Idea as in you are smart enough to type into google. The reason you pissed me off is your ignorant post about warrant officers..



Because an E9 is an E9 there are a several hundred in the marine corps! They are placed by "billet" not rank because they are all E9s. You could call it a rank but its not really. As much as you would call SgtMaj MARFORPAC a rank. You see the billets coincide with the commanding officer equivelent. Typically a LtCol and above in a CO position has a senior enlisted SgtMaj. so there are 6 "billet" levels of SgtMaj. LtCol, Col, 1 star, 2 star...... etc. Sgt Maj of the Marine corps being the 4 star in charge of the marine corps equivilent. The only reason I dont shoot that comment completely down is because SgtMaj of the Marine Corps at least gets a different insignia on his arm but no more stripes of rank.




My dad was in. :rolleyes:



Still confused at the whole rank vs. billet thing. Because if an E9 is just an E9 then what about everything else? Is the only reason the rank of a Private is a Private (considered a rank); is because there's also a PFC?? Or the same thing with Lance Corporal and Corporal? Because I'm pretty sure there's more like 1000's of those!
I know there's something like sub-divisions of being different kinds of sergeants (I suppose that's the best way I can explain/say that) - Like there's two different kinds of E8's is that correct? Each with.... what is it.. damn.. i think it's 3 chevrons on top, 4 below, and then like crossed guns in the center, or a star.. or something... I don't remember.

I give up - but like I said; I'm not claiming to be a genius in the military, I really don't know much about it. I was mislead about the whole "Warrant Officer" issue - So I'm owning up to that and saying Sorry. Because you're right, it is a prior enlisted and my friend said that they're usually badass Sergeants that apply for the position.

Whatever.....

[Conrad]

Still confused at the whole rank vs. billet thing. Because if an E9 is just an E9 then what about everything else? Is the only reason the rank of a Private is a Private (considered a rank); is because there's also a PFC?? Or the same thing with Lance Corporal and Corporal? Because I'm pretty sure there's more like 1000's of those!
I know there's something like sub-divisions of being different kinds of sergeants (I suppose that's the best way I can explain/say that) - Like there's two different kinds of E8's is that correct? Each with.... what is it.. damn.. i think it's 3 chevrons on top, 4 below, and then like crossed guns in the center, or a star.. or something... I don't remember.

I give up - but like I said; I'm not claiming to be a genius in the military, I really don't know much about it. I was mislead about the whole "Warrant Officer" issue - So I'm owning up to that and saying Sorry. Because you're right, it is a prior enlisted and my friend said that they're usually badass Sergeants that apply for the position.

Whatever.....


No a private is a private. At E7 enlisted people in the marine corps need to decide which way they are going to go for promotion.. There are two E8 ranks 1stSgt and MasterSgt. One being a leadership, admin type position and one staying in their career field. If they choose 1stSgt they are in the admin arena and can only become SgtsMaj. MasterSgts stay in the their job and go on to become MasterGunnerySgts who are typically ops chiefs. Most go the admin way because promotion is usually easier.. There are tons of slots to get into as Sgts Maj and 1stSgts. Plus you can keep the available duty stations up there. Where as higher ranking non-admin people can usually only go to certain units. The reason for the billets as a Sgt Maj is more of a political thing. Just by filling the boxes you can typically get promoted. But it takes a stellar performer in someones eyes to get selected as a command Sgt Maj. I dont know much about that because well I'm not one and wont pretend I know the inner workings.

[Ir0nMonk3y]

My limited understanding of the uses of AK vs the "M16" - the M16 was a horribly flawed gun from the get go. It was one of those gov't contract circle jerks that ended up getting a lot of soldiers killed in the field due to frequent jamming and not being able to fire it reliably if it got dirty or subjected to any real battle field conditions in general (teh suk). So they started looting AK's as they were tons more reliable for that reason alone.

However, the reason why it wasn't designed with the same 7.62 rounds - as you might expect any respectable assault rifle to fire for the incredible damage and armor/wall/tree/people piercing destruction was that they found it killed the enemy too quickly (go figure). The reason they didn't like this was they found that using the M16 (once improved) it was more accurate and it wounded more than it killed. The military figured out that by simply wounding a soldier, they not just took one person out of battle - they took 2 with them. A wounded soldier would have to be carried and pulled from the line of fire by soldiers that should be shooting at you. If it just killed them, they would be left till after the fight. Sounds brilliant to me!

Besides which - they also found that in large engagements if a friendly was firing an AK - anyone who didn't see the marine actually shooting (dense jungle and battle line confusions etc..) would assume that it was a VC and would blindly shoot in the direction of the very obvious sounds of an AK.
Once improved and battle hardened, the M16 did eventually become favored amongst the troops. Now I think soldiers use weapons based more so on the environment - an M16 doesn't have the power to punch through doorways and walls in urban environments. Also in an urban setting, you are more up close and personal - I doubt anyone cares or has time to worry about the wounded - the wounded can still shoot and you want them dead before you start jumping over bodies and running up the next stairwell.

IMHO, the AK is the A-10 of the assault rifle world. Hard to beat when its so easy to use and still able to take an enormous amount of impossible abuse in the worst conditions. I wonder what marines would really be packing if it wasn't for the gov't poll smoking contractors?

[Weston]

5.56mm doesn't have any problem going through doors or walls... even the .223 ammo available at Walmart will do that. I've been able to get M855 to punch through two layers of cast iron and keep going. But yeah, larger calibers are definately meaner.

[Ir0nMonk3y]

heh, well i've never tried to shoot through walls before with anything - so maybe it just depends on the wall? I can crank the pressure up on my paintball gun and do some serious damage to some drywall. =P

But I was imagining something more like concrete. How does the average 5.56 penetrate brick?

" .88 magnum, shoots through schools..." - from Johnny Dangerously lol May not be so funny these days, but damn - that had me rolling.

[Weston-work]

I haven't shot at brick, but I have tried cinder blocks and it blows the hell out of them like it's nothing. I'm not sure about how well a single round would break it up and then continue on to hit other things behind it, but I wouldn't be surprised if M855 could do it in some cases. And if not, typical magazine capacity if 30 rounds, so that's enough to make a nice hole in something and still have plenty left to send through it.

[HONDA GHANDI]

" .88 magnum, shoots through schools..." - from Johnny Dangerously lol May not be so funny these days, but damn - that had me rolling.

Your humor wasnt totally lost. I remember that scene and it does make me laugh every time. :D

[Conrad]

The marine corps were the ones who chose to keep the M16A2 for acuracy and durability over the AK.... and also the other BIGGEST REASON is AKs were made mostly in the EVIL EMPIRE!

But like I said... you can fire a AK in the mud... I wouldnt want to be in a war time situation in the jungle with it raining with my m16....

[Conrad]

Also glad they are making the change to barret sniper rifles

[Ir0nMonk3y]

off topic a bit... I heard a rumor that there was a new slide/barrel/something attachment/rebuild for the 1911 that allowed it to fire .50???

[Jackrabbit]

I'm not a soldier, but I've owned and shot a wide variety of weapons. .308s are the way to go. The only disadvantage of my FALs over my ARs is weight. A full .308 loadout is HEAVY. But boy will it knock shit down! ;)

When I go hiking around in the woods I usually take my AR, just because it's so lightweight and easy to manuever with.

[Jackrabbit]

" .88 magnum, shoots through schools..." - from Johnny Dangerously lol May not be so funny these days, but damn - that had me rolling.

"It goes through the victim, the wall, a tree outside..."
:)