VIN #?? (on block)

[HondaPower]

I was wondering if the #'s circled would be the vin or what ? Don't newer motors have an actual vin plate at the bottom of the block? Anyone? :worshippy

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j272/hondapower/16.jpg

[Conrad]

thats the only number... but I dont believe that is usable as a vin(as it is not unique I dont believe). Atleast that is what the sheriff told me. Newer engines have the green plate riveted at the bottom near the oil pan.

[HondaPower]

Well, I came across this block (97) and the blue/green plate at the bottom is broken (which is odd). The seller swears that it is legit. That's why I want to find out if those #'s that's circled are like a vin so that I can find out more....

[Varao]

The only thing I know about those #'s are that they tell you what model of block it is. IE Jdm starts with one number and USDM starts with another. I dont belive they are unique. I dont know of any # on there that could tell you if that plate is gone.

[Conrad]

Most states like colorado wont care much about the plate being gone which sucks... But get pulled over and searched in cali and you will probably lose the engine.

[HondaPower]

So should I just get the block or what? I'm not sure what I should do and I don't want to have some "hot" shit in my car. Maybe if I also get a Bill of sell. What you guys think?

Yea CA seems pretty strict, I remember reading this story on HT how this guy's tranny didn't have the vin plate anymore and they pulled it out lol. That would suck.

[Varao]

Does the seller have the car it came out of? If he has the car get the vin off the car and put it on a bill of sale. Or see if the seller has reciepts from where he or she got it IE H-motors or something. But yeah there are alot of thefts around I would be just a cautious as you.

[Conrad]

So should I just get the block or what? I'm not sure what I should do and I don't want to have some "hot" shit in my car. Maybe if I also get a Bill of sell. What you guys think?

Yea CA seems pretty strict, I remember reading this story on HT how this guy's tranny didn't have the vin plate anymore and they pulled it out lol. That would suck.

Frankly I wouldnt take it... you never know when that will come back to kick you in the ass! I find it wierd to see that plate missing... because its not really anywhere that would accidently come off. Maybe if he had the original car and would give a detailed bill of sale with like a copy of a drivers license or something I would do it.

[HondaPower]

You guys sound about right, I'll try and see what's going on with that seller. Thanks for the opinions.

[Weston-work]

Well, I came across this block (97) and the blue/green plate at the bottom is broken (which is odd). The seller swears that it is legit. That's why I want to find out if those #'s that's circled are like a vin so that I can find out more....

Call the State Patrol and have them run the block number. If the VIN plate is broken/defaced/missing, I definately would not buy it. The seller needs to prove ownership of the part to a law enforcement agency, otherwise you both would be guilty of a felony.

Here are two laws on the matter...

42-5-102. Stolen motor vehicle parts - buying, selling - removed or altered motor vehicle parts - possession.
Statute text
(1) Any person who buys, sells, exchanges, trades, receives, conceals, or alters the appearance of a motor vehicle or any motor vehicle part, equipment, attachment, accessory, or appurtenance which is the property of another or any person who aids or abets in the commission or attempted commission of any such act, knowing or having reasonable cause to know and believe that such motor vehicle or motor vehicle part, equipment, attachment, accessory, or appurtenance is stolen property, commits a class 5 felony and shall be punished as provided in section 18-1.3-401, C.R.S.

(2) Except as necessary to effect legitimate repairs, any person who intentionally removes, changes, alters, or obliterates the vehicle identification number, manufacturer's number, or engine number of a motor vehicle or motor vehicle part or who possesses a motor vehicle or a motor vehicle part and knows or has reasonable cause to know that it contains such a removed, changed, altered, or obliterated vehicle identification number, manufacturer's number, or engine number commits a class 5 felony and shall be punished as provided in section 18-1.3-401, C.R.S. Any person who commits any of said acts for the purpose of legitimately repairing the motor vehicle shall provide evidence of such legitimate repair to the investigating law enforcement agency. Such evidence shall include, but need not be limited to, prerepair and postrepair photographs of the affected motor vehicle part and vehicle identification number and a signed affidavit describing the required repairs.

42-5-110. Possession of removed, defaced, altered, or destroyed motor vehicle identification numbers.
Statute text
(1) No person shall knowingly buy, sell, offer for sale, receive, or possess any motor vehicle or component part thereof from which the vehicle identification number or any number placed on said vehicle or component part for its identification by the manufacturer has been removed, defaced, altered, or destroyed unless such vehicle or component part has attached thereto a special identification number assigned or approved by the department in lieu of the manufacturer's number.

(2) Whenever such motor vehicle or component part comes into the custody of a peace officer, it shall be destroyed, sold, or otherwise disposed of under the conditions provided in an order by the court having jurisdiction. No court order providing for disposition shall be issued unless the person from whom the property was seized and all claimants to the property whose interest or title is on the records in the department of revenue are provided a postseizure hearing by the court having jurisdiction within a reasonable period after the seizure. This postseizure hearing shall be held on those motor vehicles or component parts for which true ownership is in doubt, including, but not limited to, those motor vehicles or component parts that are altered to the extent that they cannot be identified, those motor vehicles or component parts that are composed of parts belonging to several different claimants, and those motor vehicles or component parts for which there are two or more existing titles. This subsection (2) shall not apply with respect to such motor vehicle or component part used as evidence in any criminal action or proceeding. Nothing in this section shall, however, preclude the return of such motor vehicle or component part to the owner by the seizing agency following presentation of satisfactory evidence of ownership and, if it is determined to be necessary, upon assignment of an identification number to the vehicle or component part by the department of revenue. There shall be no special identification number issued for a component part unless it is a component part of a complete motor vehicle.

(3) Whenever such motor vehicle or component part comes into the custody of a peace officer, the person from whom the property was seized and all claimants to the property whose interest or title is noted on the records of the department of revenue shall be notified within ninety days of seizure of the seizing agency's intent to commence a postseizure hearing as described in subsection (2) of this section. Such notice shall contain the following information:

(a) The name and address of the person or persons from whom the motor vehicle or component part was seized;

(b) A statement that the motor vehicle or component part has been seized for investigation as provided in this section and that the property will be released upon a determination that the identification number has not been removed, defaced, altered, or destroyed or upon the presentation of satisfactory evidence of the ownership of such motor vehicle or component part if no other person claims an interest in the property within thirty days of the date the notice is mailed; otherwise, a hearing regarding the disposition of such motor vehicle or component part shall take place in the court having jurisdiction;

(c) A statement that the person from whom the property was seized and all claimants to the motor vehicle or component part whose interest or title is on the records in the department of revenue will have notification of the seizing agency's intention to commence a postseizure hearing, and such notice shall be sent to the last-known address by registered mail within ninety days of the date of seizure;

(d) The name and address of the law enforcement agency where the evidence of ownership of such motor vehicle or component part may be presented;

(e) A statement or copy of the text contained in this section.

(4) (a) A hearing on the disposition of the motor vehicle or component part shall be held by the court having jurisdiction within a reasonable time after the seizure. The hearing shall be before the court without a jury.

(b) If the evidence reveals either that the identification number has not been removed, altered, or destroyed or that the identification has been removed, altered, or destroyed but satisfactory evidence of ownership has been presented, then the motor vehicle or component part shall be released to the person entitled thereto. Nothing in this section shall preclude the return of such motor vehicle or component part to a good faith purchaser following the presentation of satisfactory evidence of ownership thereof, and, if necessary, said good faith purchaser may be required to obtain an assigned identification number from the motor vehicle group.

(c) If the evidence reveals that the identification number of the motor vehicle or the component part has been removed, altered, or destroyed and satisfactory evidence of ownership has not been presented, then the property shall be destroyed, sold, or converted to the use of the seizing agency or otherwise disposed of as provided by court order.

(d) At the hearing, the seizing agency shall have the burden of establishing that the identification number of the motor vehicle or the component part has been removed, defaced, altered, or destroyed.

(e) At the hearing, any claimant to the property shall have the burden of providing satisfactory evidence of ownership.

[HondaPower]

^^ That's good stuff there.

Could a carfax tell you if the car/parts was stolen? The seller I have been talking to tells me that the transmission still has a vin plate and that it came with the block. He doesn't have the actual car either and all of this is off his civic.

[M@]

Sounds fishy. I'd personally look elsewhere. I was offered a sleeved block for cheap, but passed it up because of this very reason.

[HondaPower]

Yea hell of fishy. So for example, this transmission is on Ebay right now and has no vin. So it makes it illegal?

http://i11.ebayimg.com/04/i/06/c3/ab/7e_12.JPG

[Weston-work]

Well, some Honda transmissions apparently didn't come with a VIN... I think that started in like 1996. But that doesn't mean you can remove the VIN from one that came with it.

[HondaPower]

I think the early 90's transmission came with a sticker vin, didn't they?

[M@]

I know for sure that B18A/B's (obd1) didn't have the riveted vin plate, FWIW.

[Weston-work]

I know for sure that B18A/B's (obd1) didn't have the riveted vin plate, FWIW.

That's only true about B18A's... After 1996, the B18B's did for sure. I'm just not sure about 94 and 95 B18B's. Being that the motor in question shows evidence of a "broken" VIN plate, you know that it orginally came with a VIN, so nothing else matters... it is clearly required to still have that VIN, so you either risk getting busted for a felony or you go through that proof of ownership process to get it taken care of.

[M@]

That's only true about B18A's... After 1996, the B18B's did for sure. I'm just not sure about 94 and 95 B18B's. Being that the motor in question shows evidence of a "broken" VIN plate, you know that it's 1996 or newer and is required to have a VIN.
That's why I said obd1. ;) N00b!!!!!1!1one!1

Considering I'm going to have a B18A in my car, I wonder if I'll ever get hassled by the P0lizia? Hrmm...

[Weston-work]

Considering I'm going to have a B18A in my car, I wonder if I'll ever get hassled by the P0lizia? Hrmm...

I'm not sure what the deal is on replacing a VIN-tagged part with one that isn't... you're not removing the VIN from the part itself, but you are still ending up with one less VIN on the car. My gut feeling is that it's legal, maybe somewhat in a grey area, but I'd play it safe and ask law enforcement about it. I was told, off-the-record, that the VIN stickers are not really an issue, but I don't know about an actual VIN plate.

[M@]

Who do I call? Adams County Sheriff? CSP?

[Weston-work]

I'd call CSP for sure... they're more used to dealing with this. You should ask for their officer that handles salvage vehicle inspections and VIN inspections.

[HondaPower]

I think that's what I'm going to do, just call in and see what's up.

[M@]

CSP says I need to talk to the DMV because what they'd normally do is run my car's VIN and just issue a state assigned ID number which is printed on a sticker that you put in the door jamb. Hrmm.

[Conrad]

Most of the law enforcement agencies wont do a VIN over the phone, if they come and it is stolen they are taking it.