The what is my car capable of running post?

[DnVr]

I have an idea of My cars capabilities based on what others have done with similair setups.
I wanna know what everyone would guess my cars capabilities
drag times as well as estimated hp and torque figures

My setup:
92 tsi awd
jdm 6 bolt with very low miles
1st gen intake manifold
2nd gen exhaust manifold
16g non ported non clipped
2.5 mandrel bushur exhaust
2.5 mandrel bushur downpipe
2.5 test pipe
act 2600 clutch
apexi safc
free mods
K&N filter
turbosmart mbc @ 16psi

[V8SpankR]

If I was driving or you? :D

13.8@97mph but I don't think you'll turn it on your worn struts plus we have to start tuning your S-AFC soon.

[DnVr]

if you were driving Paul I would like to think it would turn that!
I will be happy with under 15 seconds my first time out.
what do you figure my whp and torque to be?

[Dallas J]

If its your first time at the stip, expect a high 14-low 15 and a 1.4 RT. Thats just my guess though.
Get a fuel pump and FPR run 101, crank the boost, let pual drive...mid 13s hopefully.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by Dallas J
, let pual drive...mid 13s hopefully.

:rofl:

[V8SpankR]

With AWD it's very hard to guess horsepower #s but I think you will be near the 300 horse mark at the crank.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
With AWD it's very hard to guess horsepower #s but I think you will be near the 300 horse mark at the crank.

so figuring driveline loss in an awd car what would my whp be ?
maybe around 240

[phast]

Why bother guessing? Just take it to a dyno or shut up about it.

BENCH RACING SUCKS!
:D

[DnVr]

Originally posted by phast
Why bother guessing? Just take it to a dyno or shut up about it.

BENCH RACING SUCKS!
:D

how many awd dynos do you know of?

[V8SpankR]

I was just posting figures from general info on DSM sites and to convert AWD to fwd is more trouble than it's worth and it does involve more than just dropping the transfer case. I think you also need to lock the viscous coupling somehow too or damage will result.
I personally only care about my track times.
There is an AWD dyno rumored to be up in Boulder but I think it's a bit pricey just for a HP run.

[hoffman]

there is one in denver. autowerks

[DnVr]

Originally posted by hoffman
there is one in denver. autowerks

where??? how much to dyno???

[phast]

There are actually two in the Denver metro area.

slipstream in boulder is a roller dyno.

autosport werks in broomfield has a dynapack hub dyno.

Go lay it down, I'm just as curious as you are and there is no sense in specualting all day.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by phast
There are actually two in the Denver metro area.

slipstream in boulder is a roller dyno.

autosport werks in broomfield has a dynapack hub dyno.

Go lay it down, I'm just as curious as you are and there is no sense in specualting all day.

Do you know how much they charge for a baseline run?
I dont know anything about the hub dyno how does that work?

[hoffman]

ask DlandryTSI. i belive hes going to get a couple pulls this weekend.

heres what he has on it so far.

http://www.rmdsm.org/vb/showthread.php3?threadid=197

[john]

http://www.autosportwerks.com <-- AWD "dynopack" dyno

[john]

The numbers I heard tossed about were $120 for setup and a set of baseline pulls, and $100 per hour after that.

Your car is elevated, the wheels removed, the dyno hardware is bolted up to your hub, and the car is then lowered and rests on the dyno hardware at each corner of the car.

The dynopack (dynapack?) can introduce any type of load you want, and the electronics can plot 200+ data points, such as EGT, boost pressure, rpm, TPS etc. I believe.

Sounds like an awesome setup. My only problem with using something besides a dynojet is comparing apples to oranges.

Originally posted by DnVr


Do you know how much they charge for a baseline run?
I dont know anything about the hub dyno how does that work?

[V8SpankR]

For now I'm just gonna stick with my datalogger for tuning and just make close "guesses".:)

I think I ran my 13.9 with about 240whp which might be close to 295 at the crank on an AWD.

[DnVr]

Im running almost the same setup you were running Paul.
so with propper tuning on the datalogger I might have around 250 hp and a tad more than 250 torque to the ground.

[951porsche]

Hi guys,
I have some experience with the dynapack dyno up at AutoSport Werks. It is a very accurate dyno and is especially useful for high performance tuning. Unlike a Dynojet Dynomometer that is an interia type dyno, the dynapack is a continuous loading type. This means that the dyno can hold you car at a given RPM and allow true "live" tuning. Using the graphs on the computer display you can make a fuel or timing change and actually see in real time whether it helped or hurt performance. The dynojet also measures Boost, A/F, and up to 12 other a/d inputs.
Just an FYI on why this dyno is so expensive. Because it connects directly to your hubs, it is a somewhat labor intensive process, one that was described in an above post. For an AWD it is even more labor intensive since we have to put the hub carriers onto all four wheels. However since it is directly bolted to your driveline we are able to very accurately measure power since there is no possibilty for slip. This is really useful for high HP applications, like John's slow car ;)
If you have any questions regarding the dyno feel free to ask me, if I don't know the answer I do know how to find it out. I don't work for ASW although I have ties with some friends up there.

Cheers,
Pete

[phast]

Pete! Cool deal. Any chance we could set up a group dyno day and get a better rate for some baseline pulls?

I realize the setup is fairly labor intensive, but so is that $125 fee ;)

I'm sure I could put together 6 or 8 AWD cars that would love to bolt up and dyno their cars.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by phast
Pete! Cool deal. Any chance we could set up a group dyno day and get a better rate for some baseline pulls?

I realize the setup is fairly labor intensive, but so is that $125 fee ;)

I'm sure I could put together 6 or 8 AWD cars that would love to bolt up and dyno their cars.

count me in!

[951porsche]

Originally posted by phast
Pete! Cool deal. Any chance we could set up a group dyno day and get a better rate for some baseline pulls?

I realize the setup is fairly labor intensive, but so is that $125 fee ;)

I'm sure I could put together 6 or 8 AWD cars that would love to bolt up and dyno their cars.


Phast,
Tell you what, If you can pull 6 cars together I can probably get you the runs for $100/run. That would be for a single pull, no tuning. It would probably have to be scheduled out for a saturday since the shop is pretty busy during the week. Please make sure you can get 6 cars together since they'll probably have to have an extra tech on hand to keep things moving. Make sure you talk to me on this so I can get it arranged
Pete

[newt2]

Actually if you're getting tuned, $120 for the first hour and $100 each addtl. hour isn't a bad price considering Dynopros charges $150 an hour to tune.

[phast]

Hmm.. i may just opt for the regular rates. I do need to get tuned. Does the $125/setup and $100/hr include wideband 02 useage?

[951porsche]

Originally posted by phast
Hmm.. i may just opt for the regular rates. I do need to get tuned. Does the $125/setup and $100/hr include wideband 02 useage?

Not yet. Give me a few weeks and it will though. I'm getting the wideband sorted out.
Pete

[Richard T]

Jay & Pete:
Let us know when/if this is going down. I'd love to walk down and watch.

ASW is literally about a half mile from where I live. I drive by there all the time. The cars parked in front are usually enough to constitute the "long" way home. :)

A Z8, and a new M3 are not uncommon. I have also seen a new yellow 911 turbo sporting an ASW sticker.

[john]

14.0 @ 100.

Originally posted by DnVr
I have an idea of My cars capabilities based on what others have done with similair setups.
I wanna know what everyone would guess my cars capabilities
drag times as well as estimated hp and torque figures

My setup:
92 tsi awd
jdm 6 bolt with very low miles
1st gen intake manifold
2nd gen exhaust manifold
16g non ported non clipped
2.5 mandrel bushur exhaust
2.5 mandrel bushur downpipe
2.5 test pipe
act 2600 clutch
apexi safc
free mods
K&N filter
turbosmart mbc @ 16psi

[john]

Thanks for all the info, Pete. I wanted to share the info which I had, but wasn't sure on a lot of stuff.

My slow car would benefit from something like that, esp if I were to want and dial in an A/F ratio...

[DnVr]

Originally posted by john
14.0 @ 100.


you think my trap speed could be that high john?
I was thinking more mid 90's but I wouldnt mind a bit!:drink:

[951porsche]

No problem John!
You did a great job describing what we have to do for a run. I think that your car could really benefit from this type of tuning! Its very precise, and instanteous as well. I would be interested to see how things compare between the dynapack and a dynojet(interia) type dyno. They should be very close as both dynos are providing SAE corrected #'s. Though I'm sure there'll be a slight variance.


Originally posted by john
Thanks for all the info, Pete. I wanted to share the info which I had, but wasn't sure on a lot of stuff.

My slow car would benefit from something like that, esp if I were to want and dial in an A/F ratio...

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by john
14.0 @ 100.



I ran a 13.99@94.8mph with a 1.8 60'.

That was with my small 16g@16psi with no tuning and on all season radials. (speaking of tires;Ryan,you need 'em bad)

[V8SpankR]

Oh yeah,I'm actually considering tuning now for that price. I' would like to see some hard #s for my car.

[davidm_sh]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
For now I'm just gonna stick with my datalogger for tuning and just make close "guesses".:)

I think I ran my 13.9 with about 240whp which might be close to 295 at the crank on an AWD.

I am just curious about somthing. Do you guys actually know how much drivetrain loss there is on your DSM's with AWD? Just curious. Becuase I dynoed at 265whp and I figured that would be about 350hp at the crank with a 25% drivetrain loss. In the WRX community I have heard drivetrain losses range from 22%-28%. So I am just curious as too how much more efficient the DSM AWD system is too only be losing ~20%? I guess it's not that big of difference maybe.

Thanks.

Oh and how much cfm does the 16g flow? Just trying to get an idea of how it compares to my VF22 (~560cfm)?

[john]

RWD/WWD loss is about 15%, AWD is probably closer to 18%, maybe 20%? 20 seem s pretty high to me.

A "generic" 16g flows arounc 515 CFM @ 15psi. Dunno what a "big" 16g flows.

[Dallas J]

I think the b16g flows about 50cfm @ 15psi more than the reg16g stock for stock...I dont know what the modded ones flow though, like my B16g is ported and clipped....So im wondering if that makes a difference.

[V8SpankR]

14b 405@15psi
16g 505
Big 16g 550
18g 605

20g 650+ ?

Doesn't Dave's FP Red flow over 800cfm?

[Dallas J]

Dave was saying like 915 cfm i think

[DnVr]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
14b 405@15psi
16g 505
Big 16g 550
18g 605

20g 650+ ?

Doesn't Dave's FP Red flow over 800cfm?

are these #'s maximum flow rate or boost dependent #'s based on a certain amount of boost?

[V8SpankR]

I'm not sure but maybe John can be more specific.

[DnVr]

So your trailing arm is in paul, it sounds like we both get our cars back today!!!;)
if wheather permits we will have to go for a cruise!

[phast]

David
I thought the VF22 was closer to the PE1820 than that.

Mine is rated at 635cfm. Pretty sizeable margin.. in the grand scheme of things.

[DnVr]

Originally posted by phast
David
I thought the VF22 was closer to the PE1820 than that.

Mine is rated at 635cfm. Pretty sizeable margin.. in the grand scheme of things.

How many lbs can the wrx handle on stock internals and stock fuel system?
just curious

[davidm_sh]

Jay - Quite frankly I can't recall where I saw that figure. I thought it was on some spreadsheet by IHI but maybe I am wrong... or maybe that is the benifit of the 1820 is that it's a worked VF22 and it flows more?

DnVr - OHHhhh that's an easy one. The stock fuel system is BY FAR the limiting factor on the WRX. The stock fuel pump is somewhere in the 140-150l/hr range I "think" and the stock injectors are 420 or 440cc stock. Cobb pushes the stock fuel system the most I think with their 320hp (crank) system. They run 17psi in the midrange and then taper off boost to about 14psi by redline to accomodate for not running the stock injectors staticly.

As far as how much boost stock internals can handle? I have heard very many various things. I have heard some tuners running mid 20's with upgraded fuel system. I know a few people over at I-club run between 18-20psi on pump gas. Some of those guys are standalone ECU now and others are UniChiped (piggy back).

I have only heard of a couple of engines going south but I think that's more attributable to poor tuning. I will go out on a limb and say that with the proper tuning and supporting modifications you could easily boost 20psi maybe up too 25psi on the stock internals for quite some time.

[phast]

I'd say it can handle 25psi. A headgasket might spoil the fun at that point. There is a WRX with an FP Green and he runs 22 psi on race gas.