Turbo ?'s

[Slow96GSR]

Ok I got the motor (B18c1) all built as some of you know. What I need to do now is select a turbo kit. I can piece it all together or buy the kit, it doesn't really mater to me. I was looking for a turbo that will do 250+ HP and can run 20+ psi. This isn't for a street car, just drags. I was thinking a T3 super 60. It can do what I want but I am a motor guy not a turbo guy. I don't know much about them. None of our racing classes use them so I never learned them. What A/R is good, what does it mean? Will a simple T3/T4 kit do the job? Would a Garrett T3 Turbo with an A/R of .42 x .63 High Flow work or would it spool too late? Just kind of looking for info. Still reading up on them but its new to me. If you have a full kit for a GSR let me know. I have about 1,500 to spend unless you all buy up my for sale list!!!

Also what size wastegate, 38mm seems to be popular with my friends, is it big enough. Also I don't want a BOV that wakes up the neighborhood. Do thay have really quite ones.... also I don't want every ricer wanting to race my if I do ever take her out on the streets. Although it would be fun!!!

[ChewiSi]

250HP + 20psi on a t3/super 60 doesn't make any sense????? 20psi will net you like 400++ is my guess.

[Slow96GSR]

Also how about the accessories like boost controllers and turbo timers. Any to stay away from?

[M@]

I'm not very smart on chosing turbos, but if you're looking for a good manual boost controller, look at the TurboXS lineup, that or Hallman. Turbo timers.. you only really need one if you're too lazy to stay in the car for an extra minute or two to let the turbo/oil cool down.. if it's a strip car, you don't need one.

Sounds to me like if you're looking at around 20psi, a t3/o4e 60 trim, or even a t66 would be a decent turbo. It won't spool til pretty late, but when it does it'll scream.

Once again, I'm not a turbo expert, but I am just speaking off of what I have learned from word of mouth.

The wastegates.... I run a Tial 38mm wastegate, and that does the job. They do make bigger, and I would suggest going with bigger.. possibly a 42mm or maybe even a 45 if you're doing a full race setup.

$1,500 will buy you a very nice turbo.. so do some more research and find the perfect one.

[B20badboy]

Read up on the wastegates in the Turbo issue of Super Street, Smaller wastegates are better with higher boost, They will work better get like a 44mm or so.

[Enthalpy]

I'm assuming you will want 250 corrected whp here.

Wastegates that are too big won't do you a bit of good, and will be too sensitive to be accurate. The reason is you crack that huge wastegate open a tiny bit and it allows a TON of flow. You wind up only using the first 10% of travel, and you will see the boost go up and down. Your boost controller and wastegate will be chasing their tail. I see it too often.

I use a 38mm wastegate on my 350 rwhp MR2 Turbo, and it works just fine.

You will be hard-pressed to do an externally-gated turbo for 1500. You will just barely be able to do an internally-gated one on 1500, unless you go cheap (which you shouldn't). Also, don't forget fuel control (EMS) and the aftermarket fuel system you will need.

As for the turbo, you shouldn't just "buy the biggest". I have a 46-trim T04E compressor with a stage 3 t3 and a .63 A/R turbine, and it gives me a fantastic combination of good spool and great high-end. This is because it's well-mated.

If you build the engine well, you probably wouldn't need 20 psi for 250 whp. Building it right includes good head work from a builder who knows what he's doing. These people are RARE! Unnecessarily high boost is really hard on an engine. If you can obtain 250 whp on 15 psi (for example), your engine will probably last longer.

Remember, altitude has a huge effect on the turbo's ability to hit 20 psig. The T3 super 60 is a poor choice for 20 psig. It might flow enough...might, but at 20 psig, your map is too narrow and you will surge and choke the turbo between a surprisingly narrow RPM band.

The T04E 60 trim will be very laggy. It will do what you want, but it's too big for your engine, and therefore unnecessarily laggy, unless you don't want to boost until 4000 RPM + (excluding EMS and cam tricks to lower this RPM).

Consider the T04E 40-trim or 46-trim. These compressors will get you there without the unnecessary lag of the bigger turbos. As for the turbine, t3 stage 3 .63 A/R turbines are quite popular for a good reason. We could use a .42 A/R if you want. You might be okay with that.

Don't bother with ball bearing CHRAs, especially on your budget. It's a waste of money for most people.

Realize what you do with your cams and EMS will have an ABSOLUTELY HUGE effect on how easily you attain your goal.

If you need help with this, drop me a line. damonb@avaya.com. I don't do fabrication, but I'm a mechanical engineer with a lot of EMS tuning experience. I can help you with engine-turbo mating calculations and with the EMS tuning.

[Slow96GSR]

Good, you can tune my EMS!!! I have had it a little more than a year but haven't had it in the car except to load a map and make sure it worked! As I said the motor is all built for a turbo... cams, head work, fuel system, sleeved, pistons, EMS, etc...... so the only part left now is a good turbo setup! I have only had the experience from friends with turbos and they all said their t3/t4's weren't enough and they all bragged about these t3 super 60's and how they spool fast with a lot of boost! I want this car to do well over 250hp at the wheels, and it should with all that is done to it.

So ya as far as fab work goes that is easy it's putting the kit together and the EMS. I am not a computer guy except for PC's!!! I know enough about them. I have played with my EMS a little and am on the AEM Forum a lot reading and rereading stuff and even though I have had classes at college they don't go nearly into the depth of this!! Thanks for everyones input and I am still looking for a turbo setup and more info! The more the better!

[Enthalpy]

If you want far more than 250, then perhaps a different turbo might be in order. You need to get down exactly what you want. Realize that more power usually means lower long-term reliability, and a GSR is REALLY F-ING FAST with 250 whp.

I responded to your PM by the way.

[Slow96GSR]

Went to turbonetics' web site and they have some good info. Read up on what I should do and sizings. Look here! (http://www.turboneticsinc.com/turboappdata.htm)

[Enthalpy]

This page lists highly generalized recommendations that are safe most of the time. A well-designed system is far more specific than this. Think about what you want the car to do:

-Do you prefer early spool or high-end power?
-What will you use this car for?
-Will you ever take it to the track and continually flog it, or just do jackrabbit starts and the ocassional 1/4 mile?
-What does your rebuilder say about the engine's capabilities?

[Slow96GSR]

He says we can get an easy 750 hp at the fly wheel with the right set up. He also hates when I ask what rpm's but knows we can do an easy 10,000 rpm. I plan only to make this a track car as gas is outrageous right now. We have everything done except the turbo kit. I want early spool but a lot more at high rpm's with the power curve.

I was hoping to have this done to hit a few events at bandimere and "PMI" if that's even still there!! But we do have a rig we can take this beast to other tracks further away. If I ever do drive this on the street I want it the BOV to be quiet, I want it to look good, but mostly perform so well that people will realize that just tossing a turbo kit on and maybe some nawz isn't going to be enough. I have put 4 years in to this car starting with the CAI. Last year we did the basic build up for the internals and cylinder head setup, this year we sleeved it and went low comp pistons and coatings.

The builder and I know this motor can handle whatever we throw at it and with the coatings it can handle the nawz and turbo but I hate nawz and won't be running it. He wants 10's out of this car and I would love 9's but I am realistic and think 8's are better!!! LOL!!

[Enthalpy]

10,000 RPM? Wow! Are you sure? That's impressive.

Since you stroked it and are spinning so high, that changes the flow map drastically. It also changes the ideal turbo.

10s or 9s? That's impressive.

Low-end torque is wasted on a pure drag car. You want flow flow flow. Large exhaust, large turbine, compressor that's moderately large, etc. Drag cars have HORRIBLE lag, but they never care since the only time they spend in the lower 3/4 of the RPM range is to idle up to the line.

[Slow96GSR]

I don't think they will let me race the car with 10's and 9's cuz we don't have safety in mind yet!!! Just the motor!! the cage and other parts are on the bottom. I am willing to be more like 11's but we need to nail this turbo part down.

Say I took out the A/C/ condensor and want to put the I.C. in it's place, anyone done that, seen that, heard of doing that? Did it work or did it over heat? Thanks!!

[M@]

Better buy some new axles, slicks, and an LSD. :)

[Slow96GSR]

Got em already!! Well no slicks yet but on order soon!!! Custome built a race tranni and bought some tight ass axles!! Just have to put it all together!!! But thanks for reminding me to get off my ass and do it!!!

[doctorstupid]

I don't think they will let me race the car with 10's and 9's cuz we don't have safety in mind yet!!! Just the motor!! the cage and other parts are on the bottom. I am willing to be more like 11's but we need to nail this turbo part down.

Say I took out the A/C/ condensor and want to put the I.C. in it's place, anyone done that, seen that, heard of doing that? Did it work or did it over heat? Thanks!!
Very doable, I can make it happen for you. As for overheating, if it's a track car, as long as it doesn't do it before you hit the traps or while staging who gives a shit? :p


But seriously, if you're serious about a high powered setup like this, a radiator upgrade should be near the top of your list. Overheating depends on many things; size and effeciency of the radiator, size of the core, density of the core, where the core is located, presence of any ducting, "speed holes" in the bumper, etc.

[Slow96GSR]

Very doable, I can make it happen for you. As for overheating, if it's a track car, as long as it doesn't do it before you hit the traps or while staging who gives a shit? :p

Ya no kidding huh!! That would blow!! Ya I will hit you up when we decide on the turbo to get a I.C. made. I forgot who made them here but then you posted and I folowed the links!!

[tegedrex]

Honeslty I think you need to research this a great deal more before moving on. There are plenty of helpful sites to gain knowledge as far a FI Hondas i.e. www.Honda-tech.com (the biggest of them all), www.Evans-tuning.com (very helpful and less likely to be flammed), and www.Hondaracingcrew.com (our site) we have built plenty of turbo Hondas and believe me we have a recipe to run whatever you want Servion on the board is in the 10's, I will be there next year I rans 12's last year on a stock GSR motor with a simple turbo bolt on( until my car was stolen) this year just been rebuilding.

If your looking to race and do nothing but race at the track to be competitve 250hp is not going to cut it unless your one hell of a bracket racer... Servion is at 600+(soon to be 700+ Im guessing atleast), Im looking for 750 and should have no problem finding it. You need to decide what class you want to race under SPFD, T4, or whatever you decide. Then from there build around that seeing how every class limits you to certain criteria i.e. SPFD you have to have a complete exhaust past the axle with a muffler, turbo size is limited, no wet sump oil system... Your going to need a good turbo take a look at www.Full-Race.com this is who makes it happen for a lot of people Servion runs their T3/T67 I have their T4/T67 however Im about to upgrade to the GT40 they will be offering very soon. Their manifolds are the best, pretty much you buy their parts and never worry about a weak link coming from that end... Theres a ton of information out there just ask the ?'s, to the right people..

[servion]

Honeslty I think you need to research this a great deal more before moving on. There are plenty of helpful sites to gain knowledge as far a FI Hondas i.e. www.Honda-tech.com (the biggest of them all), www.Evans-tuning.com (very helpful and less likely to be flammed), and www.Hondaracingcrew.com (our site) we have built plenty of turbo Hondas and believe me we have a recipe to run whatever you want Servion on the board is in the 10's, I will be there next year I rans 12's last year on a stock GSR motor with a simple turbo bolt on( until my car was stolen) this year just been rebuilding.

If your looking to race and do nothing but race at the track to be competitve 250hp is not going to cut it unless your one hell of a bracket racer... Servion is at 600+(soon to be 700+ Im guessing atleast), Im looking for 750 and should have no problem finding it. You need to decide what class you want to race under SPFD, T4, or whatever you decide. Then from there build around that seeing how every class limits you to certain criteria i.e. SPFD you have to have a complete exhaust past the axle with a muffler, turbo size is limited, no wet sump oil system... Your going to need a good turbo take a look at www.Full-Race.com this is who makes it happen for a lot of people Servion runs their T3/T67 I have their T4/T67 however Im about to upgrade to the GT40 they will be offering very soon. Their manifolds are the best, pretty much you buy their parts and never worry about a weak link coming from that end... Theres a ton of information out there just ask the ?'s, to the right people..

Listen to this guy :)

You need to set a goal, because running 9's is a whole hell of a lot different than running 11's. They have dractically different power requirements as well. I'm afraid you're not going to be able to run 9's with a fast-spooling turbo. I spin my motor to 9.5k rpms and make over 600whp, and it doesn't really get moving until 5500.

[Slow96GSR]

Went to your site.... Nice! I used to know a guy named Super Dave. He worked at Alternate Source here in the Springs!! My goal is to be at low 9's by the time I am done. Time to bug people that own me money huh!!! Looks like my budget just grew a little!!

[servion]

Do you want it to be a full-out drag car, or do you want to stay in the streetcar classes (t4/SFWD)? If you want to stay in a streetcar class, good luck :) The fastest one in existence right now run's 9.6's

[Slow96GSR]

Hell I don't care about the street, I got another car I drive!! All out race is where I would like to be!

[servion]

Well, start by gutting it and adding lexan windows, etc. to get that car light as hell.

[Slow96GSR]

Mmmmm lexan. I got 2 layers 3/4" thick panels on my friends stereo van for windows!!! 178db baby!! Ya I can get that! then lets see roll cage, Chromoly or steel? I got both. Is there a site with a rule book or something?

[servion]

chromoly is the only way to go. You can get a detailed rulebook on www.nhrasportcompact.com

Build a custom dash too :)