VF 34 vs EJ5-40T - update

[Nick4592]

Here is a chart/tune we just did the other day...granted this is with a broke ass MBC that would spike at 20psi and then bleed to 14...but that will be fixed soon. The first chart is the VF-34 vs the EJ5-40T. The second is just the EJ5-40T.


http://www.momentumturbos.com/images/ej5.gif


http://www.momentumturbos.com/images/racegas.gif

[STIBungy]

Slightly larger turbo=better top end. Makes sense. Nice numbers, BTW.

I'm gonna be doing some data logging this weekend. My friend at TDC Tuning will be making some maps for me to use.

[Nick4592]

Can't wait to see you at the track again...it's been TOOOOO long :)

[Dustin]

Be careful with your axles ;)

[Nick4592]

Haven't broke yet .......knocking on wood

[Nick4592]

Here's with 91 octane

http://www.momentumturbos.com/images/pumpgas.gif

[slaytera666]

I don't like how it tapers out so much on the top-end. It has an alright mid-range but it doesnt hold. I'm not really impressed with it and I couldn't even see running a "Momentum" if it cost over $500. People stick with what works.

[STIBungy]

I've yet to see a graph where it holds steadily unless the person has a huge sized turbo. But the comparison between the Momentum turbo and a VF-34 is quite dramatic. Look at how the hp holds pretty steady over 300 and the tq doesnt drop as sharp as the 34 does.

I don't like how it tapers out so much on the top-end. It has an alright mid-range but it doesnt hold. I'm not really impressed with it and I couldn't even see running a "Momentum" if it cost over $500. People stick with what works.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

cam that sucka!

[Nick4592]

I just took off my shitty MBC (which didn't bleed right - hit 20psi and then tapered to 12psi) and gave boost control back to my UTEC (hopes whatever I tell it to...so hopefully that will smooth out the top end power...more charts to come :)

[STIBungy]

Check this out:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/1833000-1833999/1833431_16_full.jpg

GT35R is big enough to hold the hp curve steady up to redline.

I've yet to see a graph where it holds steadily unless the person has a huge sized turbo. But the comparison between the Momentum turbo and a VF-34 is quite dramatic. Look at how the hp holds pretty steady over 300 and the tq doesnt drop as sharp as the 34 does.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

DAMNNNN!

[WRX Harvey]

That looks like the Kingpin kit. Clark Turner did that one I think. Is that right or just me arse talking?

[Nick4592]

One Day I will get my EJ-20 to break 400hp...one day

[skraztastik]

One Day I will get my EJ-20 to break 400hp...one day

That would be nice. I would be content with 300-350, but 400 would be sweet. Well.... maybe someday.... :)

[sbiggi]

So when are the STI guys gonna grab sack and put a turbo that is properly sized for a 2.5L on?

A 60-1 is just barely big enough for a 2.5L. Fuck that 16g size crap.

-Seth

[STIBungy]

There is a black STI with a 25G on it. Last I saw it, it wasnt tuned and only did low 13s. I believe the 25G equates to a T66 or T67?

There are some folks with GT-35R turbos on their STIs as well as the FP Red.

The weakness of the stock STI pistons, being that it's cast, keeps me from shooting for huge numbers.

[sbiggi]

There is a black STI with a 25G on it. Last I saw it, it wasnt tuned and only did low 13s. I believe the 25G equates to a T66 or T67?

There are some folks with GT-35R turbos on their STIs as well as the FP Red.

The weakness of the stock STI pistons, being that it's cast, keeps me from shooting for huge numbers.

I saw a stock turbo STI run 13.0 with just a boost controller, fcd, exhaust and intake.

The stock pistons are cast, but they are hydroformed just like mine (I think its hydroformed, what ever the process is it allows a higher silicon content)
My stock bottom end can take 400 whp, and I have heard the same about STI's.

You can always run lower boost with a big turbo. That way you dont break your motor, but you carry the torque all the way to redline instead of having it die off. Your 2.5L requires a hell of alot of air up top to maintain a flat torque curve.

[STIBungy]

Yeah, I'm currently looking into getting a bigger turbo. But before that, I gotta do injectors. Right now, my IDC is around 91%.

The guy that ran that 13.0 also did a 12.8. First STI in the 12s on a stock turbo at this altitude.

[sbiggi]

Yeah, I'm currently looking into getting a bigger turbo. But before that, I gotta do injectors. Right now, my IDC is around 91%.

The guy that ran that 13.0 also did a 12.8. First STI in the 12s on a stock turbo at this altitude.

Yeah my roomate hits 95% idc when the weather is right.

You could be like certain sti owner and just run stock injectors, walbro255 and a larger turbo.... and 120% idc :rolleyes: .... i kid, i kid (triumph the dog voice)

[Nick4592]

Yeah, I'm currently looking into getting a bigger turbo. But before that, I gotta do injectors. Right now, my IDC is around 91%.

The guy that ran that 13.0 also did a 12.8. First STI in the 12s on a stock turbo at this altitude.

The car also barely weighted 3000lbs...

[timg]

The stock pistons are cast, but they are hydroformed just like mine (I think its hydroformed, what ever the process is it allows a higher silicon content)

Hypereutectic?

Tim

[sbiggi]

Hypereutectic?

Tim

Yes thats it.

[WRX Harvey]

So when are the STI guys gonna grab sack and put a turbo that is properly sized for a 2.5L on?

A 60-1 is just barely big enough for a 2.5L. Fuck that 16g size crap.

-Seth

Michael D who works with me is running a Schwitzer on his STi. It is a very large turbo. He made 415 at the wheels with a 1.15 correction factor on our Dyno Dynamics dyno. He also ran a 12.1 at 113 last week at Bandimere. Big Sack Eh? I have the same turbo on a 2.0 liter shop car and ran a 12.8 at 111. But the little 2 liter won't spool till 5k and loses its gusto between shifts. We will be installing a 2.5 shortblock below soon. I would say that anything over a 20 g can run well on an STi, but that is just my opinion.

edit- michael's run was 91 pump gas full street trim inclucing spare and jack

[sbiggi]

Michael D who works with me is running a Schwitzer on his STi. It is a very large turbo. He made 415 at the wheels with a 1.15 correction factor on our Dyno Dynamics dyno. He also ran a 12.1 at 113 last week at Bandimere. Big Sack Eh? I have the same turbo on a 2.0 liter shop car and ran a 12.8 at 111. But the little 2 liter won't spool till 5k and loses its gusto between shifts. We will be installing a 2.5 shortblock below soon. I would say that anything over a 20 g can run well on an STi, but that is just my opinion.

edit- michael's run was 91 pump gas full street trim inclucing spare and jack

That really doesnt say much. What are the turbo specifics?
A dsm guy locally ran 12.2 @ 114 on 91 octane with a 50trim. 2.0L Block. With just 660 injectors, and AFC for tuning with.

A 20g only flows 44 lbs/min, which is smaller then a 50 trim(49 lbs/min).
I get full boost at 4k rpm on my 2.0 with 7.8:1 compression (still on 2.5" exhaust and no cams).

In the dsm world people with 2.3 and 2.4 strokers for the most part run much larger then a 50 trim.

[WRX Harvey]

I don't know too much about the turbo other than it is fucking huge. Much larger than the 50 trim too. No specifics, so sorry, but you are welcome to come see the one on our Super Rupair shop car. It is an HT200 deisel turbo. It was a side project of TEC and is unfortunately no longer available. When Jim was around, he was saying it would be extremely efficient up to 30 pounds on the 2.5 at 8k rpms. It has a 4 inch inlet and looks to be about 3-5 inches bigger in diameter than a 20g on the compressor side. I made 452 at the wheels on our 2 liter shop car with a 35 shot running only 18 psi. Michael is secretive with his setup, but he is using our ECUTEK reflash system to control it. It is simply impressive. Beleive it or not. I will have to measure the housings and post them on monday for you.

[sbiggi]

Sounds like it needs more boost to really start moving some air. Time to turn it up and put down some real numbers and times. 'burnout:

[WRX Harvey]

Yup, Xephyr forgot to turn down the duty for boost control on the Link and split a cylinder in half at MAC on his STi shortblock with the Schwitzer. Luckily, he had a few extra shortblocks laying in wait. The STi shortie is stout, but not that stout. You guys with your cast iron make me sick! J/K I think it hit over 40 psi for a moment.

Michael is planning on running 25 psi for the street on pump someday.

My boss at SR won't let me turn the damn thing up past 20 on the 2 liter. :( I think it could handle 25 psi if it were still very efficient no problemo. Just gotta scale out the load sites on the fuel and ignition maps way far.

[davidm_sh]

That really doesnt say much. What are the turbo specifics?
A dsm guy locally ran 12.2 @ 114 on 91 octane with a 50trim. 2.0L Block. With just 660 injectors, and AFC for tuning with.

A 20g only flows 44 lbs/min, which is smaller then a 50 trim(49 lbs/min).
I get full boost at 4k rpm on my 2.0 with 7.8:1 compression (still on 2.5" exhaust and no cams).

In the dsm world people with 2.3 and 2.4 strokers for the most part run much larger then a 50 trim.

Just for comparison I have a 50 trim (TEC built Green basically) on my 04 STi. With supporting mods (3" catless TBE and 720cc injectors) I ran a 12.5@109.5 on pump gas last time out to Bandimere. Weighed in at 3485lbs with me in it for that run as well.

And for a >< of info on the HT200, while the TEC website stays up, here is a compressor map. Now this was just one "version" of the HT200 and I am not sure which one Mark or Michael are actually running as I knew there were some more recent versions do not have corresponding comp maps on the webiste:

http://www.turboengineering.com/custom_performance_turbochargers/ht-series/ht200.html

[davidm_sh]

Yeah my roomate hits 95% idc when the weather is right.

You could be like certain sti owner and just run stock injectors, walbro255 and a larger turbo.... and 120% idc :rolleyes: .... i kid, i kid (triumph the dog voice)

Yah that was me =). I personally didn't really care what the Delta Dash was telling me (as high as 120% IDC though are kind of scary) my afrs according to my wideband never went leaner than 11.1:1 with the GSS342 and 20G at this altitude ;).

[sbiggi]

Yah that was me =). I personally didn't really care what the Delta Dash was telling me (as high as 120% IDC though are kind of scary) my afrs according to my wideband never went leaner than 11.1:1 with the GSS342 and 20G at this altitude ;).

Ya, but if you wanted to go leaner you couldnt contol it at all. After enough time of your injectors running above 90% dc, you can bet one will fail. Better hope it doesn fail on a full throttle run.


According to that compressor map, that turbo flows around 57 lbs/min or so. Perfect for a street car with a 2.5L, but not a drag car looking to put down some serious numbers. I was thinking so going up to a fp 3052 which flow 52 lbs/min, but thats more then my stock block can take.

[davidm_sh]

Ya, but if you wanted to go leaner you couldnt contol it at all. After enough time of your injectors running above 90% dc, you can bet one will fail. Better hope it doesn fail on a full throttle run.


True true. Which is why I only ran that setup for about 2-3 months. I now have the larger injectors which only see high 7x% range IDC.

[WRX Harvey]

So when are the STI guys gonna grab sack and put a turbo that is properly sized for a 2.5L on?

A 60-1 is just barely big enough for a 2.5L. Fuck that 16g size crap..........................................

..................................According to that compressor map, that turbo flows around 57 lbs/min or so. Perfect for a street car with a 2.5L, but not a drag car looking to put down some serious numbers. I was thinking so going up to a fp 3052 which flow 52 lbs/min, but thats more then my stock block can take.

Yup, all cars I mention are street cars and not intended to race drags or heads up. I must've misinterpreted you r question.

Xephyr runs a 12.3 and traps at 121 at Bandi (which he has only been to 3 times ever) and runs second creek at about 1:16, and Michael runs 12.1 @113 in full street trim and hates drag racing. Both cars make well over 450HP with SAE correction at the wheels. Most street STi guys I know such as Dave here, Sinbad, Scuba Steve, Brandon, etc. are running 20g turbos and half of those are with the 50 lb compressor wheel. Brandon on Pirates is running a 55 lb wheel on his STi. I am the only one still with a puny 18g on my 2.5, non STi :( . I don't know anyone with a full drag setup but I though you were asking about properly sized turbos on STi "street" cars. Larger than 16g I beleive.

I have been tuning professionally for a very, short while. Still have much to learn. Out of over 20 subarus tuned, not one has requested a race gas tune, or to turn up the boost as high as possible. Every one has wanted a nice street tune with minimal knock. Perhaps someday we will see a full drag setup, but till then, these street cars are doing ok IMHO.

[sbiggi]

Yup, all cars I mention are street cars and not intended to race drags or heads up. I must've misinterpreted you r question.

Xephyr runs a 12.3 and traps at 121 at Bandi (which he has only been to 3 times ever) and runs second creek at about 1:16, and Michael runs 12.1 @113 in full street trim and hates drag racing. Both cars make well over 450HP with SAE correction at the wheels. Most street STi guys I know such as Dave here, Sinbad, Scuba Steve, Brandon, etc. are running 20g turbos and half of those are with the 50 lb compressor wheel. Brandon on Pirates is running a 55 lb wheel on his STi. I am the only one still with a puny 18g on my 2.5, non STi :( . I don't know anyone with a full drag setup but I though you were asking about properly sized turbos on STi "street" cars. Larger than 16g I beleive.

I have been tuning professionally for a very, short while. Still have much to learn. Out of over 20 subarus tuned, not one has requested a race gas tune, or to turn up the boost as high as possible. Every one has wanted a nice street tune with minimal knock. Perhaps someday we will see a full drag setup, but till then, these street cars are doing ok IMHO.

Well... whats the shop cars intended purpose?

12's for a street car is great especially on pump gas.

Are there any subarus locally that are building a drag car?

[STIBungy]

I will have a street car that does 12s soon. :D

[Nick4592]

I will have a street car that does 12s soon. :D

ME TOO :)

[sbiggi]

ME TOO :)

Me too.... o wait, I already am.;NutKick;

[Nick4592]

Me too.... o wait, I already am.;NutKick;

Yeah but is that DSM still running 'ass: :rofl:

[sbiggi]

Yeah but is that DSM still running 'ass: :rofl:

Indeed it is.... last thing I did was replace my worn out ACT 2600 clutch; 40K miles, 100 timeslips and 200+ street launches. Never broke anything on my drivetrain it the 3 years I've owned the car.

Not to mention I fast passed emmision 3 weeks ago.

[Nick4592]

Indeed it is.... last thing I did was replace my worn out ACT 2600 clutch; 40K miles, 100 timeslips and 200+ street launches. Never broke anything on my drivetrain it the 3 years I've owned the car.

Not to mention I fast passed emmision 3 weeks ago.

Shit...you are one amoung few :)

[sbiggi]

Shit...you are one amoung few :)
O.. I know.

My brother 92 has nothing but problems, sucker. (hopefully I didnt jinx my self)

-Seth

[WRX Harvey]

Wow, did this ever get off topic. I just did a tune with ECUTek of this turbo versus Rancid's old vf34. Here is a thread with charts backing up Nick's findings. Great fuckin turbo. http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868839&page=1&pp=25

[Nick4592]

That i-speed guy makes me want to kill puppy's with a blunt object.

[john]

Nice numbers. It looks like you have some ignition issues on the big end, however?

[Nick4592]

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE 40T still rocking strong and hard after much abuse...like many mothers of yester-year :)