I am now a nerd. Not really, but my computer is neat.

[doctorstupid]

So my little shit-box HP laptop died for the 23rd time last week, and this time even if it were possible I don't care enough to fix it again. Lesson learned: avoid all things HP like the plague.

In need of a computer and desperately seeking acceptance from my nerd roommates, I dug into my car fund and ordered the parts for a new computer from the ground up, as follows:

>P4 630 3.0GHz 2MB cache 64bit CPU, 800MHz FSB
>Asus P5GDC-V Deluxe mother board, Intel 915G chipset, on-board 1Gb LAN, video, 7.1 audio, USB2.0, IEEE1394, etc.
>Chaintech PCI-E 16x GeForce 6200 256MB video card
>1GB DDR2 533MHz RAM, dual channel
>120GB Samsung 7,200RPM HD, 8MB cache
>8-Cube 17" 1280x1024 LCD flat panel monitor
>Samsung 16x dual layer DVD burner, 40X CD-R (soon to add a DVD/CD-ROM drive)
>Antec dual fan 350W PSU
>Some cheap case with a CPU air duct, and of course all the other shit needed to use it like a Logitech mouse, keyboard and all that good stuff.

All inclusive, after shipping, it came out to just under $1,100. I'm being told the graphics card isn't the greatest (not bad by any means), but the price jump to anything better was obscene. Though in hindsight the on-board Intel graphics accelerator on the mother board wouldn't be bad, probably should have gotten a better card. But the idea really is to have a solid and very expandable platform that will be able to keep up with new technology for a few years, and this should meet that need very well. Not bad for the first computer I've ever built, I suppose, and extremely good for the money (or so my roommates say, what the fuck do I know?)

About half of it has already arrived, the computer withdrawls are killing me; having the keyboard and monitor sitting on my desk is a real tease and not really helping the situation. I just stole my roommate's computer to post whore for a bit while he plays NES :)

[Nightfall]

I'm assuming you don't game that much as you chose to go with a LCD instead of a CRT. P4's are decent workstation procs but if you game you should have gone with an Athlon 64 instead. If you aren't concerned with PCI-e (PCI Express) and DDR2 than I would have recommended an Athlon 64 3400+ socket 754. It would have blown the P4 630 out of the water in games because it has an on die memory controller.

I am going to be putting together a new gaming box soon and I priced this w/o monitor at about $1300

Athlon 64 3400+
1Gb CAS 2 (512x2)
Radeon X800XL 256Mb
74Gb SATA Raptor 8Mb/Cache 10,000 RPM
Antec aluminum chassis w/380 watt PSU

Just the basics but it would be a lot better at gaming than the PC you put together. I'm not knocking the box you put together at all though, it's a great workstation.

P.S. Yeah, the Geforce 6200 isn't going to be playing Doom 3 or Halflife 2 @ 1600x1200 2xaa 8xaf any time soon

[Aracheon]

I'm assuming you don't game that much as you chose to go with a LCD instead of a CRT. P4's are decent workstation procs but if you game you should have gone with an Athlon 64 instead. If you aren't concerned with PCI-e (PCI Express) and DDR2 than I would have recommended an Athlon 64 3400+ socket 754. It would have blown the P4 630 out of the water in games because it has an on die memory controller.

I am going to be putting together a new gaming box soon and I priced this w/o monitor at about $1300

Athlon 64 3400+
1Gb CAS 2 (512x2)
Radeon X800XL 256Mb
74Gb SATA Raptor 8Mb/Cache 10,000 RPM
Antec aluminum chassis w/380 watt PSU

Just the basics but it would be a lot better at gaming than the PC you put together. I'm not knocking the box you put together at all though, it's a great workstation.

P.S. Yeah, the Geforce 6200 isn't going to be playing Doom 3 or Halflife 2 @ 1600x1200 2xaa 8xaf any time soon



That sounds very similar... well, minus the SATA drive and the video card.... to the PC that I bought and am now running. :)

[Bedlam]

I'm assuming you don't game that much as you chose to go with a LCD instead of a CRT. P4's are decent workstation procs but if you game you should have gone with an Athlon 64 instead. If you aren't concerned with PCI-e (PCI Express) and DDR2 than I would have recommended an Athlon 64 3400+ socket 754. It would have blown the P4 630 out of the water in games because it has an on die memory controller.

That is just about the worst new computer advice I've ever seen. :)

1) socket 754 is discontinued, and any AMD product except 939 and 3500+ (or greater) is really a waste of money.
2) by the end of the year, AGP will mostly be DONE...as in, cant get it anymore, nobody is making high end cards for it as it sits right now, the next generation of "fast" gaming cards will be faster than the 8x agp bus.
3) there are things the AMD does well, and things the intels do well...its really ford vs chevy..you cant honestly tell me that amd is going to run EVERY game better than an equivilant intel chip..because thats simply not true.
4) day to day applications run better on intel because of their high FSB, support for faster and dual channel memory, and hyperthreading.
5) There are LCD's out there today that are every bit as good for gamers as CRT's and they are actually easier on your eyes (they dont cause eyestrain), take up less space, use almost zero electricity..and just overall..are way nicer to look at. Myself..I'm a BIG gamer, I have an 8ms response 19" lcd, with DVI and VGA..anyone that has ever seen me play games on it wants one. The days of CRT's are also gone..they "almost" passed a law in California this year banning the sale of them completely.

I get to build the newest, fastest, machines and play around with this stuff as soon as it comes out..he may have saved a little money on the amd route, but I still feel that intel is a better choice for a system overall. The 6200 on the other hand is reasonably worthless, but it will work, and its cheap..so whatever. :)

The only consideration I have here is your power supply choice...you ARE going to burn it up before too long. The PCI express bus by itself is 150W of overhead...JUST for the bus..not to mention everything else you throw in a system...I'd honestly see if you can return that now, and get at least a 450W...minimum. 500, 550, or 600...even better. If you use a power supply thats too small on most of the ASUS sli boards..they void your warranty..? Just so you know.

Looks like a perfect HP replacement otherwise. :)

-Bedlam

[Nightfall]

1) socket 754 is discontinued, and any AMD product except 939 and 3500+ (or greater) is really a waste of money.
2) by the end of the year, AGP will mostly be DONE...as in, cant get it anymore, nobody is making high end cards for it as it sits right now, the next generation of "fast" gaming cards will be faster than the 8x agp bus.
3) there are things the AMD does well, and things the intels do well...its really ford vs chevy..you cant honestly tell me that amd is going to run EVERY game better than an equivilant intel chip..because thats simply not true.
4) day to day applications run better on intel because of their high FSB, support for faster and dual channel memory, and hyperthreading.
5) There are LCD's out there today that are every bit as good for gamers as CRT's and they are actually easier on your eyes (they dont cause eyestrain), take up less space, use almost zero electricity..and just overall..are way nicer to look at. Myself..I'm a BIG gamer, I have an 8ms response 19" lcd, with DVI and VGA..anyone that has ever seen me play games on it wants one. The days of CRT's are also gone..they "almost" passed a law in California this year banning the sale of them completely.

1+2) Yes it is discontinued but you will notice I said if you aren't worried about PCI-e and DDR2 then I would recommend this. An A64 3400+ and a Radeon X800XL would be a viable gaming system until dual core CPU's and Nvidias SLI as well as ATI's crossfire video card setups really take off.

3) Yes, I can tell you that an AMD Athlon 64 runs nearly any game that anybody cares about faster and more efficiently than a P4. Don't believe me... here http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTc1LDQ= Don't believe that review, go ahead google Athlon 64 review.

4) I agree, that is why I told him that a P4 is an excellent chip for a workstation. Athlon 64's only show about a 5% improvement with Dual Channel memory. Why? Because they have an on die memory controller. An Athlon 64 doesn't have to ask the northbridge to get something from your RAM, it can do it itself. This is where the difference in gaming performance comes from.

5) The days of CRT's are not even close to being gone. If you can actually stand the ghosting of an LCD (yes even the best LCD's ghost) than good for you. Maybe I am just picky, but I can't stand playing UT2004, HL2, or Doom 3 on a LCD.

[doctorstupid]

I'm assuming you don't game that much as you chose to go with a LCD instead of a CRT. P4's are decent workstation procs but if you game you should have gone with an Athlon 64 instead. If you aren't concerned with PCI-e (PCI Express) and DDR2 than I would have recommended an Athlon 64 3400+ socket 754. It would have blown the P4 630 out of the water in games because it has an on die memory controller.

I am going to be putting together a new gaming box soon and I priced this w/o monitor at about $1300

Athlon 64 3400+
1Gb CAS 2 (512x2)
Radeon X800XL 256Mb
74Gb SATA Raptor 8Mb/Cache 10,000 RPM
Antec aluminum chassis w/380 watt PSU

Just the basics but it would be a lot better at gaming than the PC you put together. I'm not knocking the box you put together at all though, it's a great workstation.

P.S. Yeah, the Geforce 6200 isn't going to be playing Doom 3 or Halflife 2 @ 1600x1200 2xaa 8xaf any time soon
Yes and no. Games are certainly a use here, however my favorite genre is RTS, which tend to not be overly resource hungry. Though I do play Halo and several other FPS's. The LCD I got has 12ms response, got almost unanimously positive reviews from gamers (little to no ghosting), and cost less brand new than a comparable refurbished CRT flat screen. Plus my stellar 20/40 vision will do a great job of hiding any ghosting or slow response ;) . This computer also needs to be able to handle AutoCAD and several other resource hungry applications. And I don't need Doom3 or Halflife2 in 1600x1200 because my monitor only supports up to 1280x1024 ;)

And as Bedlam said, the AMD vs. Intel debate is nothing more than Ford vs. Chevy. I am far from being any sort of expert on anything involving computers, but having owned nothing but AMD's I was looking for something better. Matter of opinion I suppose, but what really sold me was the comparison on tomshardware.com in which they rook the heatsinks off P3's and AMD's back to back (don't remember the specifics) and the AMD started smoking. In contrast, the P3 kept running the game, the graphics just got a little choppy.

As for the PSU, my roommate is running a Dual P3 setup on a cheapo 300W power supply from CompUSA, and that thing doesn't even get beyond warm. I went with the 350w to save some money, and saw no reason to cheap out with a non-name brand unit. If it can't meet my needs, I'll replace it, for now I've been told by the biggest nerds I know it will more than suffice. Good to know about the warranty, once the MB gets here (in a couple hours) I'll check the documentation for PSU recommendations. The 350w has not shipped yet, so I amy be able to swap it out with a larger one if they call for it.

This IS my first computer that wasn't bought off the shelf, and I know very little about computer components. So I'm not at all surprised there are a few things that need to be addressed :)

[Nightfall]

And as Bedlam said, the AMD vs. Intel debate is nothing more than Ford vs. Chevy. I am far from being any sort of expert on anything involving computers, but having owned nothing but AMD's I was looking for something better. Matter of opinion I suppose, but what really sold me was the comparison on tomshardware.com in which they rook the heatsinks off P3's and AMD's back to back (don't remember the specifics) and the AMD started smoking. In contrast, the P3 kept running the game, the graphics just got a little choppy.

Those are pretty old CPU's. Try taking the HSF off of any modern CPU and the PC will shut down almost immediately.


As for the PSU, my roommate is running a Dual P3 setup on a cheapo 300W power supply from CompUSA, and that thing doesn't even get beyond warm. I went with the 350w to save some money, and saw no reason to cheap out with a non-name brand unit. If it can't meet my needs, I'll replace it, for now I've been told by the biggest nerds I know it will more than suffice. Good to know about the warranty, once the MB gets here (in a couple hours) I'll check the documentation for PSU recommendations. The 350w has not shipped yet, so I amy be able to swap it out with a larger one if they call for it.

Does the 350 watt PSU you bought have dual 12v rails? Shit, I ran an A64, X800Pro, 10K Raptor, 1Gb memory, 6 80mm case fans, and a cold cathode off of a Sparkle 300 watt PSU. I just didn't do it for very long before replacing it ;)


This IS my first computer that wasn't bought off the shelf, and I know very little about computer components. So I'm not at all surprised there are a few things that need to be addressed :)
You are just getting started, it's an addiction, just like cars for some people. Just have fun with it and you will learn a lot.

If you have any questions about anything there are a few, pretty decent, forums around.

http://www.hardforum.com
http://forums.procooling.com
http://forums.anandtech.com

[doctorstupid]

Those are pretty old CPU's. Try taking the HSF off of any modern CPU and the PC will shut down almost immediately.I don't know how much of the comparison is still relevant, but it seemed to me the point was, more than anything, that AMD's run hot as fuck. Maybe that's changed, I don't really know, but it sure didn't help the AMD argument (at least in my novice opinion).

Does the 350 watt PSU you bought have dual 12v rails? Shit, I ran an A64, X800Pro, 10K Raptor, 1Gb memory, 6 80mm case fans, and a cold cathode off of a Sparkle 300 watt PSU. I just didn't do it for very long before replacing it ;)I think so, it's ATX12v2.0, which is the new form factor for the new sockets requiring 24 pins. I googled around for a bit to try and figure out what I needed, and ATX12V2.0 is all that was ever said about any special requirments. I went through the manual and all the information that came with my motherboard, no mention of minimum wattage to keep the warranty or anything. I'll call tech support tomorrow and see what they say. Though it did ship out today, so hopefully it's all good. I'm not running 8 billion fans or anything; just two chassis fans, two in the PSU, CPU and graphics card.


You are just getting started, it's an addiction, just like cars for some people. Just have fun with it and you will learn a lot.Oh I know, I was thinking I was going to build a basic P4 system and be done with it, but then I started seeing all the new shit that wasn't much more expensive (like the 630, $50 price difference with a 3.4GHz 'regular' P4). But then all the stuff to take advantage of it like DDR2, mother board with PCI-E, etc etc etc just kept adding up. I think I already am addicted since now that I see my MB supports 600MHz DDR2 RAM I don't like the 533, and I BARELY understand how it would be different. It's like the story of my car, but only with a computer I have little to no idea what the fuck I'm buying :D

[Nightfall]

I don't know how much of the comparison is still relevant, but it seemed to me the point was, more than anything, that AMD's run hot as fuck. Maybe that's changed, I don't really know, but it sure didn't help the AMD argument (at least in my novice opinion).

P4 Prescotts run hot as fuck and require a lot of power to run; compared to an Athlon 64.

[taikahn]

Should of bought a mac. ;)

[chibianh]

Should of bought a mac. ;)

which will soon be Intel powered anyway! lol

[Aracheon]

Should of bought a mac. ;)


I think a Macintosh would explode if you even put the Doom 3 CD into the tray. :rofl:

[doctorstupid]

Asus has left me under the impression that my PSU will be just fine, they said that the +3.3v needs to be at least 22A and the +12V needs to be 15A. One of the +12's on the PSU is 10A and the other is 15A, I browsed through Antec's other power supplies and the 400W and 450W from the same series have the same amperage on the +3.3 and +12's.

So I guess it'll get the job done, or am I misunderstanding something here?

And yes, Macs are teh ghey.

[chibianh]

I think a Macintosh would explode if you even put the Doom 3 CD into the tray. :rofl:

My Mac begs to differ. And Doom 3 is boring anyway .


And yes, Macs are teh ghey.

Care to state the reasons why so I can rebut them? ;)

[taikahn]

And yes, Macs are teh ghey.

ure teh stupid. ;NutKick; Oh wait, thats right --- thats your name. ;)

[doctorstupid]

Care to state the reasons why so I can rebut them? ;)
The same reson Hondas are teh ghey :)

[taikahn]

The same reson Hondas are teh ghey :)


rotfl... why's that? ...'cause you dont have either of them?

[doctorstupid]

rotfl... why's that? ...'cause you dont have either of them?
I have owned both, and currently have a Prelude. However I would happily not own both (note I am selling my Prelude) because they are teh ghey.

[Nightfall]

Care to state the reasons why so I can rebut them? ;)

Macs have their place and unfortunately gaming is not one of them. I would buy a Mac if i was really into video editing.

[Aracheon]

Agreed. If I was seriously into video or graphics manipulation, I would have a 23" cinema flatscreen and a dual-processor G5 sitting on my desk.

[chibianh]

If I was really into gaming, I'd have an Xbox or a playstation.. no really.. ;)

[Nightfall]

Speaking of macs :rofl:

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2005-06-08

[Aracheon]

:rofl:

[ryanman]

Should of bought a mac. ;)
:e-slap:

[chibianh]

my heatsink is bigger than your heatsink... so HA!

EDIT: OS X >>>>> Windows (just my honest opinion)

[doctorstupid]

Well it's up and running, in fact I'm on it right now. I was fucking around with the dynamic overclocking, overclocked it to 3.9GHZ, got the CPU up to 52*C, but then my hard drive couldn't keep up and it couldn't boot. So now it's set to overclock up to 3.6 when it's needed, the rest of the time it's 3.0ghz. I figure by the time I burn up this CPU, they will have come down in price enough that they'll be pretty expendible :D

Still haven't installed any games, still installing all my programs, drivers, windows updates, porn, etc. I'm sure I'll be up all night blowing shit up and beating my dick like it owes me money.

And for all you LCD haters, this thing fucking rocks at 75Hz. we'll see how it is in a game, but to test it out I just grabbed a window and dragged it around as fast as I could, never once saw a trail/ghost/whatever. So there :p

[doctorstupid]

Gave it the Doom3 test earlier. Running at 1280x1024, 75Hz, 32 bit color, 2x antialiasing, high video quality, and no overclocking, it didn't bog down or get choppy at all. I probably could have pushed it a bit more with the antialiasing, but having to re-launch the game everytime I made an adjustment was getting old fast. With how graphically intensive Doom3 is, I could start to see some ghosting on the LCD when things were moving REALLY fast, otherwise it's nice and smooth. And for how compact and cheap this monitor was, I have no complaints (other than the lack of DVI/S-Video inputs, didn't realize that until yesterday).

But now Logitech is soon to be on my shit list, even with the newest drivers my mouse (MX500) keeps forgetting its settings, and button 3 keeps "disappearing" at random times, then coming back. The bastards.

EDIT: Google has revealed that the Logitech Mouseware has some lame ass conflict with Windows XP, and this is what's causing my problem. I think in using the drivers built into Windows, I'll loose buttons 6, 7 and 8, but they're small and not at all in a antural place, and to be honest I haven't used them yet... so I think I can cope ;)

[forum]

Logitech's mouseware has always had problems functioning with windows. Even back with win 98 and my trackball I had issues. But surprisingly the software with my mouse/keyboard combo hasn't had any issues.

[LeonZ]

Holy shit, 3.5 months between posts!

[Bedlam]

Holy shit, 3.5 months between posts!

He has to pace himself...

That and WoW has sucked up his life.. :)

How long has it been since DrJones posted?

-Bedlam

[forum]

I quit WoW, it's no longer installed on my computer. That game is evil.

[STIBungy]

So does that mean you'll be posting on HAI again?

I quit WoW, it's no longer installed on my computer. That game is evil.

[forum]

I'm reading HAI, I'm just finding very little thats worth postig in.



PS. Sorry for the threadjack(It definately wasn't intentional, nor my fault heh)

[Nightfall]

Gave it the Doom3 test earlier. Running at 1280x1024, 75Hz, 32 bit color, 2x antialiasing, high video quality, and no overclocking, it didn't bog down or get choppy at all.
I must say that I am suprised to hear that out of a Geforce 6200. What framerate are you getting at that resolution? Use this: http://www.fraps.com

you -----> ;NutKick; <------ me (for thinking a 6200 wouldn't be good enough for you ;) )

[doctorstupid]

I must say that I am suprised to hear that out of a Geforce 6200. What framerate are you getting at that resolution? Use this: http://www.fraps.com

you -----> ;NutKick; <------ me (for thinking a 6200 wouldn't be good enough for you ;) )
It could be better I'm sure, but bear in mind that I'm upgrading from a 1.3GHz laptop with 32MB of RAM dedicated to the on-board graphics, in games (RTS) it rarely got higher than 3 frames per second. So all this is new speed is just amazing to me right now :D

I'll download fraps and see what it says :)

[doctorstupid]

OK, I loaded a game I had going, and depnding on what's going on the frame rate varies a bit, when I'm just walking around and not much is going on on the screen, it'll peak around 35-40+, when I'm shooting a bunch of shit, looking around real fast, in lots of changing lighting and getting molested by zombies all at once it'll dip down to 18FPS, not much lower than that if at all. Though to be honest that's enough to make it choppy or rough at all that I can see (or maybe just that I care to notice, it's still 6 times faster than what I'm used to). If it were larger resolution, it would probably be more of an issue, but it looks like for what I have now it'll work just fine :)

And I'm still very impressed with the lighting in this game, bad ass :cool:

[Nightfall]

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with anything under 30fps but that's just me. Try dropping the resolution to 1024x768 (Unless it doesn't bother you ;) )

Doom 3 was a little bit of a dissapointment as far as gameplay goes. The entire game is far too dark, but that is the way they intended it so I suppose. I'm looking forward to Quake 4 which is going to use the Doom 3 engine, it's going to be bad ass... can't wait :D

[Nightfall]

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/128/531883_20050509_screen002.jpg

[doctorstupid]

Yeah, I wouldn't be happy with anything under 30fps but that's just me. Try dropping the resolution to 1024x768 (Unless it doesn't bother you ;) )

Doom 3 was a little bit of a dissapointment as far as gameplay goes. The entire game is far too dark, but that is the way they intended it so I suppose. I'm looking forward to Quake 4 which is going to use the Doom 3 engine, it's going to be bad ass... can't wait :D
It doesn't really bother me, and most the time it's around 25 if things are moving somewhat quickly, it really only dipped down when lots of shit was going on and I was shooting blindly at some ugly motherfuckers :D . Plus I really only like FPS' in online/LAN/lots-and-lots-of-bots games, RTS games consume 95% of my computer game time, so far Rise Of Nations T&P has yet to dip below 37 frames, so the lowly 6200 is keeping me quite happy. If I had ever used a faster graphics card, it might be more bothersome; but what the hell, it was cheap :)

[Nightfall]

I don't know if you keep up on new games or not but you may be interested in the new Rise of Nations coming out mid 2006. Check out a screenshot, looks amazing.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/128/reviews/928114_20050509_screen006.jpg

They got to play it at E3, here is a little 'preview' of the game. They go into gameplay details and shit:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/riseofnationsriseoflegends/preview_6125668.html

[Bedlam]

I quit WoW, it's no longer installed on my computer. That game is evil.

Hrmm..not sure I believe you... ;) If so..gimme the password and I'll steal all your gold! Just as I was getting into biking a lot..the weather turns to sh*t again..go figure. Forza is badass tho!

-Bedlam

[Aracheon]

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/128/531883_20050509_screen002.jpg

Sorry about the re-quoting of the image... but what game is that? Those graphics are amazing...

[doctorstupid]

They're going to make me wait a year for the next RoN? Bastards... :(

That 3D-RTS screen shot looks pretty similar to Black and White, definately a cool style for a game.

[Nightfall]

Sorry about the re-quoting of the image... but what game is that? Those graphics are amazing...

Quake 4 :)