Bandi in April/May

[V8SpankR]

Well only a little bit longer than two months and Bandi opens and the trash talk starts.

The first two Friday ET Series races are on April 26th and May 3rd,then Sunday the 5th is Coy's Street Machine Showdown and the first Club Clash night is on May10th.

I'm as giddy as a school girl.:p

[TedR719]

15's all day long :rofl:

Man April is a while away! Why can't it get here faster.

Oh yeah and this year Club Clash is all mine! As long as I have my car the whole year :fu:

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by futuresi
As long as I have my car the whole year :fu:


I can relate all too well. I missed one club clash and both import events last year.:(

[02GTI1.8t]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
Well only a little bit longer than two months and Bandi opens and the trash talk starts.

The first two Friday ET Series races are on April 26th and May 3rd,then Sunday the 5th is Coy's Street Machine Showdown and the first Club Clash night is on May10th.

I'm as giddy as a school girl.:p

dang it. Im gonna miss the first club clash. My last day of school is the 10th but ill be here till the 12, my brother is graduating. well Im pretty sure i can make the rest though.

[2000SiVTEC]

Originally posted by futuresi
15's all day long :rofl:

Man April is a while away! Why can't it get here faster.

Oh yeah and this year Club Clash is all mine! As long as I have my car the whole year :fu:

Gotta beat me out first bud.........:D

[HONDA GHANDI]

Uh oh, that means I only have two months to get project Si up and running. I need to get some more weight out of it and install a few things to make it go slow and consistant.;)

[Tsunami]

I look forward to racing with you guys too. Whether I still have the Caddy, or a GSR, or a Z28,or a Mustang, or my Skylark, I'll race SOMETHING.

[90CRXZCSi]

Im going on the 26th of April. it's my birthday.:Beer: Stay away :mad: J/J :D

[Tsunami]

cool mine is on the 23rd :D

[AcuraBro]

I'm going through an all-motor moster revival. The last LS/VTEC was parted out, and I left myself w/ only the LS shortblock. I was going to cut my losses, and sell the whole thing, but all the potential buyers would say, "I don't want to buy 101 octane gas". So it's time to build a better, quicker, faster LS/VTEC motor. Bye bye GS-R head. I'm going top notch on this motor, and since it's sitting in the garage, I can build it as the money comes in, and it's going to be built right this time. Hunting for the low half of 13's this time. Don't think it will be ready by May, maybe not even by July, But the 2 day September race, it's on. Somebody challenge me for the fastest all-motor Honda around.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Originally posted by AcuraBro
I'm going through an all-motor moster revival. The last LS/VTEC was parted out, and I left myself w/ only the LS shortblock. I was going to cut my losses, and sell the whole thing, but all the potential buyers would say, "I don't want to buy 101 octane gas". So it's time to build a better, quicker, faster LS/VTEC motor. Bye bye GS-R head. I'm going top notch on this motor, and since it's sitting in the garage, I can build it as the money comes in, and it's going to be built right this time. Hunting for the low half of 13's this time. Don't think it will be ready by May, maybe not even by July, But the 2 day September race, it's on. Somebody challenge me for the fastest all-motor Honda around.

Better make sure that all motor challenge you just dropped includes 4 wheels! :D not just 2.

I really hope you can get there, Id love to see someone do it.
Maybe we should team up and use teh ultralight chassis Im building.

[2000SiVTEC]

Originally posted by FULLTHROTTLE


Better make sure that all motor challenge you just dropped includes 4 wheels! :D not just 2.

I really hope you can get there, Id love to see someone do it.
Maybe we should team up and use teh ultralight chassis Im building.

yup becaue I have an all-motor 4 cyl. 2-heeled impoty I bet I can beat you with........:D

[AcuraBro]

Chasis huh? That is one of my missing links, I have a DC2 that's heavy as can be. Yes, 4 wheels. I don't have a motorcycle licence, let alone a motorcycle licence. But I do have a very good potential of parts sitting in my garage. So what's the info on the chasis? <2000lbs would be prime. If I could get that, I could possibly be looking at 12s? That's unheard of. And you know what 13.4 means at sea level. Yes folks, 11.9 et's. haha, altitude is a good thing, when it means you don't need a roll cage because of it.

[HONDA GHANDI]

HMMM, I have a 2000 civic Si that is nearly stripped. It still has the bare essetials for street use. Im guessing it will be in the sub 2000 lb range.

[AcuraBro]

I think that would be really awesome, but merging our projects would be kinda hard. I really think I should stick with the plan of just using the DC2 for it. I want the practice of doing the swap of my stock motor (again) and dropping in the race motor & vice versa for summer, even though the idle is going to be kinda wack. Reason being is (even though I kinda wanted to keep this on the D.L.) The LS Shortblock (w/ 13:1CR .25 over CTR pistons) will be receiving a '97 ITR head. The valvetrain plan is the new Crane / Fererra Roller follower cams. If you're unfamiler w/ these, the system replaces the rockerarms w/ these:
http://www.cranecams.com/import/images/rfollowers.gif
As you can see, no split rocker arm that binds when VTEC x's over. So that means, you no longer need 12 cam lobes per cam, only 4 (per 2 valves).
http://www.cranecams.com/import/images/acuracams.gif
If you want to see the cam specs, check 'em out here:
http://www.cranecams.com/import/acuracams.htm

[HONDA GHANDI]

Is there a significant weight savings over the stock valve train?
Whats this pig going to rev to?

[AcuraBro]

Yeah, they say it's 52% lighter than the stock 'train, and since it's a follower/roller set-up, it reduces a lot of friction. I was thinking 9500, but that may be a tad much, 9000 would probably be alright. The only thing that scares me is that right now, I have LS rods on there. I mean, they're the strongest Honda Rods, and when I was launching those 1.9sec 60' times, I was bouncing off the rev limiter at 8k. What do you think?

[HONDA GHANDI]

as long as the rods dont stretch under load 9K should be aight.
Are teh rods shot peened or anything? I think if you had them welded closed, shaved and rebalanced it could hit 10K. With a little clearance work done internally of course.

[AcuraBro]

Well when I had the motor put together last time, the recipricating assembly was balanced, the rods shaved at the wrist pins to fit the Civic R pistons. What kind of clearances are you talking about? What did you mean by "weld them shut" I'm kinda in the dark as far as machine work is concerned.

[HONDA GHANDI]

You can weld the I beam part of the rod to be solid which adds more weight but strengthens them. Then you grind off a lot of the weight where it is uneccesary. you also should grind sections of the block where the rods may hit at high RPM's. Does the LS have oil squirters? if i=t does you may have to relocate those to keep the rods from hitting it also but I think thats only if you stroke it.
Um, there is also notching the pistons deeper so if you ever float a valve at high rpm it dosnt smack the psiton and break off. It just bends a little and needs to be replaced. Not hte whole engine. There are about a million tricks you can do inside a block and head to not only make power, but safe power.

[AcuraBro]

Oh, ok. No, none of the LS blocks have oil squirters. And the valve releifs in the pistons are already large, so I don't think I'm going to touch those. They've already been used, so the tops have carbon buildup on them. I'm not too concerned about valve float, becuase I'll be getting the Crane valvesprings and retainers that match the cams, which (as they said) are safe up to 10k rpm. I don't really want to notch the block, I've never heard of anyone having problems with that, and I figure if a rod is gong to bend that much, it's over anyway. But w/o those oil squirters, I'm concerned about high RPM lubrication.

[HONDA GHANDI]

You may want to opt for higher oil pressure and a improved flow for you oil pump output if you want to use this as your primary race engine. You can increase pressure by changing the spring on the releif valve or stacking washers under the spring. Careful though, too much pressure will push out seals and start leaks.
The last race motor I helped build had retainers on all the seals and ran the oil press. at 100 psi. It leaked slightly but there was always enough oil. it had a dry sump system and took almost 8 qts to keep full. When you are talking about scrapping a $15K motor because of oiling problems overkill is the best policy.

[AcuraBro]

That's true. I'll have to take that oil pump apart, probably just use the washer method. Also, have you heard of anyone using something similar to this TODA RACING oil pump gear? Right now, I have a GS-R oil pump for the LS block, along w/ a LS water pump off my original B18C1 that I got with the car. Check this oil pump gear out
http://www.todaracing.com/pict21.jpg
http://www.todaracing.com/B1612.html
I also thought about considering the Moroso 5qt oil pan, but that would really be better for circuit/SCCA racing (which I think is better than drag anyway :) )
Whoa, continuing on the TODA RACING page, I've just run into something else... TODA has a similar kit to Crane, removing the VTEC system-- which also yields less oil pressure fluctuations.
http://www.todaracing.com/b16a_vtec_armset.jpg
The cams in this case are hollow, which is even less rotating mass. The specs for the TODA KILLER cams are slightly more agressive than the CRANE cams. With a 305° duration and 12mm lift on the intake side, and a 305° dur. 11.5mm lift on the exhaust, as opposed to the 242° dur. 12mm lift for the crane intake and 236° dur. 11.6mm on the crane exhuast. The duration is FAR longer for the TODA, and honestly, I trust TODA racing more than Crane, beecuase they've been doing Hondas since the 80's. And they cost about the same. I've always wanted Individual Throttle bodies, and they recommend that with the KILLER cams.
http://www.todaracing.com/b16a_injection.jpg
They've updated the page since the last time I was there, but this looks like a better solution. Though more expensive, I have time. I feel more confident buying products that were engineered with each other in mind. Like the Cams and the ITB's.

[YDRSBTR]

Originally posted by AcuraBro
And you know what 13.4 means at sea level. Yes folks, 11.9 et's.
Uhhh... What Fairy Tale correction factor are you using? Figure around a second, not a second and a half.

[SC-MECHAM-WS6]

is it April yet?

[AcuraBro]

I got that time from hearing things from people. Maybe you're right, I'm just going off what I've heard. What do you think the conversion is? I would think it would vary from car to car.

[HONDA GHANDI]

I like those cam numbers but I think without an intake maniflod to match you may be dissapointed. You are right in saying your idle will suck! Thats for sure. I love the throttle bodies. There is a set made for the s2000 but I dont have 6K to toss on 10hp.:rolleyes:
I think if you run the exact same setup at sea level but add a few lbs of fp and get perfect traction a whole second wouldnt be asking too much. Are you upgrading your ignition with all of this extra compression?

[AcuraBro]

Yeah, that's what I would think. I think turbo cars have less a difference w/ sea level than nautrally aspirated, as well as the more cylinders, the less difference, but who knows. Yeah, 10hp and 6000 is too much to pay for 10hp, but I guess it depends on modifications and tuning. But I know nothing about the F20C. But I emailed TODA racing... and here's what they said:
Chris,

Thanks for your e-mail. The Signal Auto CRX also uses the same setup you mention with great success.

To use the VTEC Killer setup you'll the cams, hardware kit, and TODA valve springs. The TODA kit comes with the necessary hardware to remove the VTEC system, but you need to use most of the factory parts as the TODA kit comes with spacers that replace the center VTEC rocker arm. We've ran this type of system for the past 5 years in Japanese endurance racing and found that the stock pieces are more durable.

For this setup we also recommend a fully programable fuel injection system, ported cylinder head, and high compression pistons.

I know the signal car runs a B16 in it, and I'm pretty sure it's in the 10's. Anyway...

[V8SpankR]

I think a $1000 is too much for 10hp.
You sure have patience and a deep wallet to have to want to do an all-motor Honda up here in the thin air. Good luck on the 13s.:Beer:

[exciv2000]

not to mention the cost of a standalone ecu on top of it all.

[AcuraBro]

Scott, stand alone is not that bad, the new AEM race system is out. But if TODA's comes out before September, I may consider it. I figure, I have time, and if I don't finish by September, there's always next year. This isn't going to be a rapid process, so don't expect too much right away. There's a lot of parts to be bought. 10hp if for the S2000, I've never seen exact numbers with Individual throttle bodies, but I'm pretty sure it relies heavily on other modifications, especially high lift/duration cams, and deisign of the exhaust manifold to provide the "sucking" power as we as the vacuum the escaping exhaust leaves to suck in more air.

I've heard of a guy that's building an H22A in a hatch. He claims 14.0 all motor. THE TITLE MUST BE DEFENDED! haha, anyway.

[exciv2000]

you have a lot of options to consider when it comes to a standalone. hondata, efi pms, AEM, zdyne, etc. etc... those are the four I hear most frequently. All seem to be $1000+. If you've got the money, it's a good way to go, otherwise just keep all your piggybacks for fine tuning.