View Full Version : Headgasket and Injectors
So im thinking about turboing my car, its a b16 EG coupe. i want to lower the compression so i can run more boost safely, so what brand/ size should i use. i want to run maybe 14psi at the absolute most. i have also heard that DSm injectors work well, but i was hesitant to getr them when i heard about that one guy who was having so much trouble with them. what do i need besides these two things in order to run boost pretty reliably (i understand running boost and reliable are an oxymoron.) i am thinking of only running 7 psi normally, but i would like to be able to turn it up to 14 if possible. so there it is, what type of headgasket should i use, injectors, and should i run a walboro pump as well. i plan to run a garrett T3 Super 60 turbo, if that helps. thanks for any input
B20badboy
03-07-2005, 01:24 PM
That turbo and 14PSi spell motor disaster. I have the JDM 10.4.1 comp b16 and max with a .57 trimm will only run 8 PSI max I will be running 550 dsm injectors and stock fuel pump for now. I only have a vafc2 for fuel management at the time. My motor is completly stock but it will be very reliable as it will be tuned by toby. If you plan on running a stock b16 then 14psi will own your motor. Pang I think runs 16psi on a complete stock Ls which has alot lower comp. Just my 2 cents unless you build the motor for it or have an extra.
servion
03-07-2005, 01:54 PM
High compression is not necessarily a bad thing with turbo setups. I personally ran 10.6:1 compression (stock JDM GSR) with a t3/t4b (dragIII kit) for quite some time with no problems (13.003 @ 110 on street tires). Stock headgasket, stock internals, stock injectors. In fact, I didn't have problems until I went standalone (but that was my fault) :)
There is nothing that directly ties any PSI of boost to motor problems. In fact, PSI has nothing to do with it, except for the fact that in general, upping the psi will increase the amount of air forced into the motor. Its all relative. 14psi on a t3 super 60 is not equal to 14psi on a t88. Therefore, its not really a good idea to set a goal to hit X psi of boost. It would be better to select a desired power output and build to reach that goal. For example, I put down 403WHP at 13psi on my turbo. I was probably artound 325WHP at 19psi with my old turbo (t3/t4b). Psi of boost doesn't mean shit.
I would recommend against simply getting a thicker headgasket to lower compression for boost. When you thicken the headgasket, the quench pads on the pistons move further from the quench area in the head. This will effectively lower the octane of the fuel, thereby promoting detonation. So, by lowering your compression witha thigher HG, you're also increasing the chance of detonation. Not a good idea. If you want to lower your compression, do it right with new internals.
how much boost can i run safely without having to sleeve my motor? (if i do upgrade internals)
Skaterkid
03-07-2005, 02:31 PM
Don't use a headgasket to lower compression on a car. It's a bandaid fix. Just run low boost.
ok, so whats the max boost i should run. im guessing no more than 8 or 9 psi. also what do you know about injectors? what size and brand?
servion
03-07-2005, 04:57 PM
Boost psi has nothing to do with it. If you want to know how much power yous etup can handle (indirectly, what PSI you can push), that's going to depend on you engine management. Are you planning an FMU, a VAFC hack, or a full-standalone?
B20badboy
03-07-2005, 05:17 PM
Is your motor JDM or USDM? I agree somewhat with servion about some of the stuff he mentioned but I feel Boost Pressure has something to do with engine falure as you increase pressure the stock rods/pistons cannot handle too much. But I know it is all in the tunning anyone can boost there ride but if you slap it together then the reliability isnt there. If your car is tunned to run higher boost then you might be fine. Keep it stock and have it tunned by someone who really knows there shit.
its the JDM version. i plan to run DSM 450s and a VAFC
B20badboy
03-08-2005, 06:45 AM
Then as per Tody he said about the max you want to run would be 8 psi and you should be just fine. Reguardles it might be able to be tunned higher or lower but you won't know that until you install and tune. What manifold are you going to use?
servion
03-08-2005, 09:50 AM
Read this:
http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1261&highlight
im am bouncing between manifolds. i might go with a love fab mini me, or possibly one that pang could make me. i also might just build one myself. i understand that psi doesnt affect when you need to sleeve a motor, but i have heard about a lot of people doing it when they run boost, so i assumed that it would be needed. i was wrong, i get that.
what would you guys reccomend as a setup. currently its this (planned):
Manifold (probably LoveFab or Pang)
Turbo(T3 super 60 or 16g) i say 16g because i might be able to get one for cheap
downpipe and 3" exhaust
Tial Wastegate and BOV
FMIC
DSM 450s and VAFC
I might be forgetting something, but thats all i can think of right now
B20badboy
03-08-2005, 01:12 PM
If you are running the VAFC I dont think you need the FMIC the vafc will do that for you. I guess it has nothing to do with PSI then why doesent anyone run all turbos maxed out? Why not push 30# to a stock motor instead of sleaving it? What was I thinking? I am gonna buy a T88 and push 60psi to my stock 10:4.1 comp B16 kick ass!
exciv2000
03-08-2005, 01:21 PM
If you are running the VAFC I dont think you need the FMIC the vafc will do that for you. I guess it has nothing to do with PSI then why doesent anyone run all turbos maxed out? Why not push 30# to a stock motor instead of sleaving it? What was I thinking? I am gonna buy a T88 and push 60psi to my stock 10:4.1 comp B16 kick ass!
are you unintentionally or purposely being an idiot? FMIC=Front Mount Intercooler. Why wouldn't he need that just because he has a VAFC?
Add a fuel pump to your list dtland.
added, would a walboro 255 be enough? im guessing so, but im not sure
exciv2000
03-08-2005, 01:35 PM
walbro 255 should be perfect.
sweet. what would you reccommend for manifolds?
servion
03-08-2005, 03:29 PM
If you are running the VAFC I dont think you need the FMIC the vafc will do that for you. I guess it has nothing to do with PSI then why doesent anyone run all turbos maxed out? Why not push 30# to a stock motor instead of sleaving it? What was I thinking? I am gonna buy a T88 and push 60psi to my stock 10:4.1 comp B16 kick ass!
Its not PSI, its cylinder pressures. Cylinder pressures are affected by the size of the turbo (and its boost level as well as its efficiency at that point), tuning, etc. The point is that its not correct to say "you can run XX psi with stock internals" becuase it all depends on the turbo (hell, the entire setup) and the tune associated with it. I can tune a motor to purposly explode on 5 psi from a tiny-ass t3. I can tune a motor to hold 22psi on a big-ass t3/t4. It all depends on the setup and the tune, not just the PSI being boosted. PSI means very little in the big picture of what's going on.
servion
03-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Honestly, from the pictures Pang's manifold is looking pretty damn good. If it were me, I would try out one of his.
B20badboy
03-08-2005, 03:42 PM
Use a log style for quicker spool up if you are using the race style you will have some turbo lag. And Yes run the FMIC I didnt read right I thought you ment a FMU so fuck you tard servion!
servion
03-08-2005, 03:54 PM
Woah there b20badboy, I didn't say ANYTHING about the FMIC/FMU thing. Relax, there's no need to get all pissy.
Equal-length manifolds are much better for usable power. They spool 250-300 rpms later, but make much more power over log manifolds (reversion is a big part of that)
The solid line is the log manifold, the dotted line is the equal length manifold
http://www.full-race.com/prototype/FRTEST/FullRaceTest.jpg
B20badboy
03-08-2005, 09:35 PM
Dam servion you are like a turbo god i bow to you!;wor;
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