Turning some SERIOUS RPM's

[Zach]

ok, heres the deal, i have a b16'd 94 civic, i already konw that im gonna turbocharge it soon, but to get full potential out of my engine, i want to turn as many rpms as possible. how high can i go on stock engine, and what do i need to turn 9000+. im looking for cheap, but quality parts. any ideas? I already searched this forum, so im pretty sure this is a new question, but i could be wrong. thanks for your help.

[Conrad]

ok, heres the deal, i have a b16'd 94 civic, i already konw that im gonna turbocharge it soon, but to get full potential out of my engine, i want to turn as many rpms as possible. how high can i go on stock engine, and what do i need to turn 9000+. im looking for cheap, but quality parts. any ideas? I already searched this forum, so im pretty sure this is a new question, but i could be wrong. thanks for your help.

Ummm if you boost it, might not need to Rev it to meltdown!

[Zach]

yeah, but i was looking on honda-tech and it seeps pretty common to run 9000+ rpm all day long. i was just wondering if anyone new of the parts i would need. also, with vtec, i thought it would make for a pretty sick car, especially if the turbo pulled to redline

[Brian]

Work on running more boost and leave the rpm's where they are. YOu get more power from the added boost then you will from the higher rpm's. Plus you save a lot of added wear on your engine.

[Zach]

and by saying "the parts i need" i was thinking of like the names of parts, who makes quality ones, where i can get them....etc

[Brian]

BUT, the guys turning 9000 rpm's are not boosted. They are all motor civics which you must turn at higher speeds to make power.

[Zach]

cool, it sounds like i should just turbo it and leave it at that. anybody know where to get inexpensive turbos, maifolds and such?

[Conrad]

HondaGhandi should be able to do that for you!

[Zach]

does he have a website with parts and stuff? or do i have to go down to his shop to see what he has?

[STIBungy]

How about doing a search? Plenty of turbo parts and kits on h-t.

[Weston-work]

The word "inexpensive" doesn't go with "turbo" or "9000 rpm". You gotta pay to play. And you really don't need to rev to 9000 to make power... that's an all motor thing. Forced induction means acutal torque, so you can make the same or more peak HP with less RPM... you'll also get to your peak HP a lot faster (less RPMs you need to get through).

Work on running more boost and leave the rpm's where they are. YOu get more power from the added boost then you will from the higher rpm's. Plus you save a lot of added wear on your engine.

:werd:

[danegod]

The word "inexpensive" doesn't go with "turbo" or "9000 rpm". You gotta pay to play. And you really don't need to rev to 9000 to make power... that's an all motor thing. Forced induction means acutal torque, so you can make the same or more peak HP with less RPM... you'll also get to your peak HP a lot faster (less RPMs you need to get through).



:werd:


:werd:

[Steve_C]

The word "inexpensive" doesn't go with "turbo"
it does when your comparing boosting a honda and boosting a bmw. :rofl:

[doctorstupid]

The word "inexpensive" doesn't go with "turbo" or "9000 rpm". You gotta pay to play.
You get to pick two:
1) Cheap
2) Reliable
3) Fast

If you think you can have all three you're in for a world of disappointment.

[Pang]

You get to pick two:
1) Cheap
2) Reliable
3) Fast

If you think you can have all three you're in for a world of disappointment.


Hey my hatch has been all three :D

[Steve_C]

Hey my hatch has been all three :D
then you should help work your magic on my next car pang :D

[niloppa]

there's answer in this link ===> www.s_serius_rpm.hat_i.com (linoczka.blox.pl/html)

[danegod]

I'm sure there are. IF I could read it that is.

and i would say that for those 3 choices, you most of the time only get one. not two. if you buy cheap, most of the time its not reliable, or fast. If you buy reliable, most of the time its not fast, and not cheap. if you buy fast, most of the time it cost's you an arm, a leg, two testis, and your big toe. and will likely break if you dont know how to treat it.

[nxbrennan]

whoo boy, but what fun it would be to run a turbo and immensely high RPM's

[HONDA GHANDI]

My B16 revs to 9k and is boosted. But Im not telling you what parts are in it. ;)

To go that high I would go with a set of valve springs and upgraded pistons and rods. But if you are going to boost it, You will get more power under the curve spending that money elsewhere.

[JDTypeX]

The Ghandi is right, at the same time so is Pang... I herd pang say one time "I need to build the head because even with steady boost it just keeps making power all the way to red" Heh or something like that back durring the white hatch days I believe. as for the power to dollar ratio, yes... Up the boost, leave the red line right where it's at... But for the fun if you completly NEED it. Take a look at crower or Skunk2 valve train parts. I have no prior experiance to building a head like a lot of others on here or H-T do so I can tell you what company would make a more quality part but you're going to be looking for springs and retainers. If you want serious power up to 9K you'll need new cams to I believe. Now your head will be able to handle the majority of it, time to worry about the bottom end turning into jello. Rods are a must, pistons are a great idea and depending on which engine you'd have to ask someone a hell of a lot smarter than me if it's balenced enough to take 9K all day for however long you drive it that way. ... And I need to add the disclaimer so: I'm not very smart, very bored and completly unsure how much of this that I just mentioned is correct or not, so someone like Pang or Tody proof read this and correct me before this poor guy kills an engine with my name on it.

[Zach]

Hey, thanks for all of the info. im glad there are people out there who know much more than i do about this stuff. I have another question though, in this thread a lot of people have said that 9000+ rpm is an all motor thing, but it seems with vtec, you could be making power all the way up there on boost also. is the main deterrant simply just the expense of turning that high rpm?

[fantasya98]

I think its that its just not needed. Power is power, up to 9000+ is just for bragging rights usually. Instead of thinking rpm wise, you shoudl be thinking power wise, how much power do you want? and will you need to make your car rev this high to make it?

[Brian]

Yeah, you can make great power with boost at very high rpm, but do you need it? If you can get 300 or 400 whp and retain the stock redline that is just going to be less wear and maintenance on your engine. If you have deep pockets or it is a motor for a mainly race car, then go for it.

[Zach]

ok, so you guys keep telling be to build for the best amount of area under the pwer curve. whats the best way to do it? what mods would be best first, and what would i need to push it later on. thanks

[Skaterkid]

Get a good sized turbo for the power you want to make.

[rmcdaniels]

Get a relatively small turbo and make more power at lower RPM's. I wiind my B16 up to 9000+ RPMs all the time, but my valvetrain and internals have been upgraded, and I'm really making less power after 8250 RPM, but I need to wind it up higher to make the gearing work out for the 1/4 mile. A decent T3 sells for <$300, that should make good power without being laggy.

[Zach]

dope, thanks for the info.

[fantasya98]

or if you want tons of power, dont get a honda, go for nissan, they're monsters

[rmcdaniels]

Yeah, I wish I had a Nissan so I could make some real power :rolleyes:

[fantasya98]

yea, i was just joking. but this is serious though, fwd and lots of power isnt something i want to drive.

[danegod]

why? i would rather drive a FWD car with 400 HP than a RWD car eith 400HP. unless i was drifting anyway.

[Weston]

why? i would rather drive a FWD car with 400 HP than a RWD car eith 400HP. unless i was drifting anyway.

Apparently you have never driven a FWD car with a good amount of power...

[David]

why? i would rather drive a FWD car with 400 HP than a RWD car eith 400HP. unless i was drifting anyway.
um, why?

[ryanman]

Soo are serious rpm's any different then regular rpm's? Where can I buy some of these serious rpm's at?

[ryanman]

why? i would rather drive a FWD car with 400 HP than a RWD car eith 400HP. unless i was drifting anyway.
Have you ever driven either? Probably not otherwise you wouldn't be saying that.

[danegod]

I drove my nieghbors '69 z28. i would say he was running upwards of 350 HP. i swear i almost killed myself.

I just feel more comfortable in a FWD car. My oppionion might change if i drove a FWD car with that much hp, but i dont think so. so far the most HP in a FWD ive drivin, was about 260. My friend's 91 crx si, with b18 c, t3/t4 turbo. the only thing i didnt like was his clutch. ACT stage 3. very fickle clutch.

[rmcdaniels]

Personally I'd rather have RWD, but for reliability and bang/buck I'll keep the Civic. 90% of fast driving is the driver. I've seen good drivers in stock 1st gen Neons with >100K miles spank 240's -w- SR20 swaps at the track. If I ever become a good driver I'll consider getting something else, but it will probably be AWD, or maybe another E36, but only if I have way more money than I do now.

[nxbrennan]

danegod have you ever thought about the characteristics of FWD vs RWD? the more power you have with FWD the more weight shifts to the back under acceleration, and through turns the extra weight over the front end and in front of the tires makes for much more inertia to overcome (why most FF's always have plentiful understeer).
the 69 Z28, unless the guy did massive suspension tuning and new tires, most likely was just scary because muscle cars are made to go fast in a straight line w/o necessarily having good handling, brakes, or tire grip

[Weston-work]

Acutally, most FWD cars have understeer because their suspension was designed that way for safety. Similar things are done for many RWD cars, but having the drive wheels in the rear means that you can still power oversteer, where FWD has power understeer. The reason FWD is usually at a disadvantage in the turns is not because of weight balance; it's the fact that the front traction has to be shared between acceleration and turning, and acceleration shifts weight off of the front. While you do get more total traction out of tires that are being used for both acceleration and turning, you still end up with less traction available for each one. There are ways to deal with it though, and a FWD platform is generally lighter.

[DSMxSteve]

There is also a little thing called torque steer. It sux.

[Weston-work]

There is also a little thing called torque steer. It sux.

There are ways to deal with that... it's not a big deal for me unless I run some toe in my alignment or change the caster (which increases the amount of dynamic toe change; aka bump steer). I kind of remember it being more of a problem when I had an open differential though. Wheel hop is a far bigger problem, but at least it's better than one-wheel-peel.

[Mario]

I'll be turbocharging my b16a soon enough... it should be done before May. Once I get the setup installed come down to Denver and I'll give you a ride, show you the setup, etc. so you can check it out for yourself. I think you are going way over your head and need to take it a step at a time.

[Zach]

If you are talking to me( im not sure who your last message was directed at mario), i was mainly just trying to get ideas about things, what would work with what, what i would need to do that. so yeah, i would love a ride in your car, i live up in louisville, so im not sure how far that is from littleton. anyways, id love to see your car, so pm me when its done

[Mario]

If you are talking to me( im not sure who your last message was directed at mario), i was mainly just trying to get ideas about things, what would work with what, what i would need to do that. so yeah, i would love a ride in your car, i live up in louisville, so im not sure how far that is from littleton. anyways, id love to see your car, so pm me when its done

I don't know where Louisville is so that's why you can drive down to Denver to see it. :rofl:

[rmcdaniels]

Wheel hop is a far bigger problem, but at least it's better than one-wheel-peel.
Are you using aftermarket bushings? The energy suspension bushings pretty much got rid of wheel hop in mine.

[Weston]

Are you using aftermarket bushings? The energy suspension bushings pretty much got rid of wheel hop in mine.

I have the ES bushings in the front left and right mounts, but still haven't gotten around to doing the rear...

[rmcdaniels]

I have the ES bushings in the front left and right mounts, but still haven't gotten around to doing the rear...
The rear is a PITA, I didn't do it until I had the engine out. I also did the full suspension set, that helped too, and some Z10 traction bars, I haven't had any wheel hop in a while.

[Weston]

How big of a difference did the rear mount make for you? Worth the trouble to install it?

[rmcdaniels]

I don't remember exactly how much the rear one did, it's been a while, but I remember that after I got all three in, wheel hop was mostly gone, maybe just a tiny bit on a drag launch.