brake answers (RE: brake questions)

[wild.irish]

I just wanted to mention for the record, that Weston's theory about using correct brake pads to take care of imperfections in brake rotors is actually working.

a short recap of my story - i had brembo blanks installed July '04, used them with Raybestos PG Plus for three-four months and managed to burn/cook/warp rotors pretty bad. (there are numerous threads about this here ;) ) Then changed to Bendix pads, used them for the last two-three months, and though shaking under excessively harsh braking remained at first, right now it smoothed and even after a spirited drive in the mountains i don't have a problem with my once 'warped' rotors.

well, your mileage may vary, as for the specific setup of rotor and pads brands, but I just need to say that by changing pads you may save on the price of rotor resurfacing.

end of story. thanks for listening :cool:

[Mario]

So you might have finally found a solution?!?! I thought the day would never come !!

[wild.irish]

well, i might put slotted rotors someday when i get extra couple hundred to spend, or when these rotors will get really thin ;) (i didn't say i won't wear them out, just that they don't shake as they used to). but untill then - yeah, i'm pretty happy with the way it performs now!

[Nate]

How is the correct brake pad determined? Or are we saying that the Bendix pads in general fix problems?

[wild.irish]

How is the correct brake pad determined? Or are we saying that the Bendix pads in general fix problems?
definitely not. i don't believe in all-in-one solutions. :)

the correct pad/rotor combination is determined through trial and error only. and i bet it hugely depends on the car. all i can say is that on Accord with brembo blanks Bendix pads helped remove deposits and dig deep enough into the surface of the rotor to smooth it out. i could probably get the same effect with other brand also, but Bendix just happened to be the first brand to resolve the problem.

but mainly my point was to give one more voice to support the theory, that you can pretty much fix your warped rotors by using agressive pads.

[ryanman]

You can't fix warped rotors by using different pads, the pads aren't going to grind them down and make them straight again, lol.

[wild.irish]

no, i don't think i fixed warpage, but then again i don't think i did have it that bad.
all i fixed is the huge vibration - maybe it's due to the better heat dissipation that these pads provide.

[rmcdaniels]

Bendix metallic pads trashed my disks, cut grooves in them and warped them. I called the manufacturer of the disks and they let me know what pads to run.

[myshtern]

Dima, that huge vibration was probably because the rotors were warped.
I think thats only reason brakes every vibrate (more like bounce).

You can't fix warped rotors by using different pads, the pads aren't going to grind them down and make them straight again, lol.
Racing pads will

How is the correct brake pad determined? Or are we saying that the Bendix pads in general fix problems?
I think we are saying that if you dont jump on your brakes like a madman, you will never have his problem.

[ryanman]

no, i don't think i fixed warpage, but then again i don't think i did have it that bad.
all i fixed is the huge vibration - maybe it's due to the better heat dissipation that these pads provide.
Most likely, I've ran into the same problems on my Jeep, tried some different pads and it fixed it, rotors weren't even warped but it sure felt like it, same situation as you.

[ryanman]

Racing pads will

Racing pads have built in "cutters" and can turn your rotors for you? SWEETNESS!! I'll never have to buy another rotor ever again!!

[Weston-work]

You can't fix warped rotors by using different pads, the pads aren't going to grind them down and make them straight again, lol.

You can't use it to fix metal that's really warped (a lathe wont either for that matter, since the thickness/density would vary and be warped again when it gets hot). But most of the time when rotors are "warped", it's really just poor surface conditions on the rotor (such as deposits)... that's when a more aggressive pad (ie high friction) will be able to get rid of the warped feeling and keep it from coming back. A trip around the block with my race-only pads will magically unwarp a set of front rotors like it's nothing, as well as shoot sparks everywhere like a grinder (awesome at night :D ). Performance street pads such as Axxis Ultimates will also unwarp them, but they just don't work quite as fast.

[wild.irish]

Bendix metallic pads trashed my disks,
i'm pretty sure i'm using ceramics or semi-metallic, i'll double check.

[wild.irish]

I think we are saying that if you dont jump on your brakes like a madman, you will never have his problem.
life would be boring then ;)

[rmcdaniels]

i'm pretty sure i'm using ceramics or semi-metallic, i'll double check.
I've got AEM ceramics now

[GrayT]

There is no such thing as "warped" rotors.

Proof: http://www.g2ic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107749&highlight=warped+rotors

This is why racing pads removes the "warping" ;)

[wild.irish]

yeah, that's a well known article, been quoted here a couple of times.
and in fact i saw another couple of articles which actually prove that rotors do warp. so i personally think that in each case you have to do micron measurements to determine what you have - deposits or geometrical deviation. and that is why i try to always quote the word "warped" as well, cause i'm talking about sensation in the steering while braking, not about scientific measurements ;)

[rmcdaniels]

So warped rotors don't exist, that waviness in the rotor is caused by deposits of brake material on a clean metal surface that are for some reason invisible and look just like metal when you take them off with a lathe. And brake rotors are made of a magical material that is impervious to deformation if you were to unevenly torque them onto a wheel hub or torque them onto a wheel hub that has significant deposits on it, making it an uneven surface. And if you turn rotors, then they go right back to having the same deposits that caused you to think they were warped in the forst place, even though they work fine for years after turning them and don't appear to have any problems. I guess the invisible deposits just get distributed evenly after turning them?

I learn something new here every day.

[GrayT]

So warped rotors don't exist, that waviness in the rotor is caused by deposits of brake material on a clean metal surface that are for some reason invisible and look just like metal when you take them off with a lathe. And brake rotors are made of a magical material that is impervious to deformation if you were to unevenly torque them onto a wheel hub or torque them onto a wheel hub that has significant deposits on it, making it an uneven surface. And if you turn rotors, then they go right back to having the same deposits that caused you to think they were warped in the forst place, even though they work fine for years after turning them and don't appear to have any problems. I guess the invisible deposits just get distributed evenly after turning them?

I learn something new here every day.

You're entitled to your own opinion.

[JL LGT]

Has anybody used Akebono Pro ACT pads? Bad...Good? Verdict?

I have a set of Brembo CD (yes..they're bevelled) rotors for my car that I haven't installed yet. I also have a set of Akebono Pro ACT pads for them.

[rmcdaniels]

You're entitled to your own opinion.
There are a number of reasons for the feeling that people generally associate with warped rotors, depending on a range of factors like design, application, utilization, and procedural issues. Fixing the problem can be as simple as wire brushing bimetallic corrosion off of the hub and inside of the hat (in the case of 2-piece brakes) and applying a thin film of brake grease to both surfaces all the way up to resurfacing the rotors, whether with a lathe, a Blanchard grinder, or with Westons race-only pads.

That's pretty much my opinion, although I will give the garnet paper idea from the article a try next time I have a problem with deposits, that sounds pretty handy.

[Weston]

I'm pretty sure that rotors can really warp... they aren't made of that magical "memory metal" that was allegedly found at Roswell (which was also recently "invented"). But 9 times out of 10, or more, the "warped" feeling seems to be caused by something on the surface that gives it inconsistent friction.