8,500 rpm fun

[myshtern]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7944093221&category=33597

So how long will a d-series last at 8,500 RPM ?

[Weston]

5.32 minutes.

[PowerSportsInc]

5.32 minutes.
No way man, it's totally 5.33 minutes. 'ass:

[HondasTrail]

Can I break the 126 mph barrier with that?

[AntiHondaSwap]

I love threads like this :D

[STIBungy]

With the proper upgrades? A long time. Some of my friends have upped their B16As rev limiter to 9krpm.

[AntiHondaSwap]

if you have to rev to 9k to make power your doing something wrong...

[Weston]

With the proper upgrades? A long time. Some of my friends have upped their B16As rev limiter to 9krpm.

B16 > d-series

if you have to rev to 9k to make power your doing something wrong...

:werd: Torque > *

[rmcdaniels]

I rev to 9000, but only for 1/4 mile beause it's faster than making an extra shift. My torque starts dropping off way before that and power starts dropping off after 8250.

[Gomez_MR]

Reason you Rev to 9K is for more power. Honda engines were built for high revving and fast revving to pull out more power. Stock 99-00 Si rev upto 8200RPM Type R's rev up to 8600RPM with lil bit more mods and chipped ECU you can rev up to 9k with no problem on these engines. Honda is not known for low end power so they make it up when High end kicks up. And those bad boys rev up quick. The question about the D-series revving that much is quite a bit but no power difference will be noticed. Though to rev up that high safely you'll have to upgrade valvetrain so yo don't get valve float or drop a valve. There have been people so bored that they decided to rev up so high that eventually the flywheel popped out flying straight through the radiator. And I'm sure you wouldn't want to get by a flying flywheel revving at 9k+. Ever wonder why those D-series never break down, well they where just meant to be abused.

[Bedlam]

Reason you Rev to 9K is for more power. Honda engines were built for high revving and fast revving to pull out more power.

Pretty sure they do everything they can to get power out of their motors...if they thought they would make power, and still have long life...they prolly would make them rev that way from the factory. I think you facts are kinda funky here.. :p

-Bedlam

[hsunchen]

There's a reason who there is a growing community of D-series enthusiasts - they're cheap, they have very strong bottom ends, and they certainly can make as much power as a stock B16 when built up a little. You don't necessarily need DOHC and VTEC to make good power. People have been making shockingly fast cars with crap like aircooled VW motors for decades. The main strength of the B16 is the head design - so port and polish the D-series head, enlarge the valves, put in a race cam, and then you're ready to stomp some B16s into the ground.

Now, I know this Ebay chip is still a POS that's worth about as much as my opinion - nothing - but don't disrespect the D-series just because it's not as popular to build. You may have heard of a pro drag racer named Bisi Ezerioha who ran 10.77 at over 124 mph - naturally aspirated.

http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2002/drivers/B_Ezerioha.html

He's now running an F22 block - another commonly hated-on motor - and has recently run low 10's on a F-series block . . . N/A.

[David]

I wouldn't really say the D series bottom end is strong. Shooting a rod through the block is pretty common on people who push the motor. But when you can replace the block for under $100 ;GiVeS:

[wild.irish]

He's now running an F22 block - another commonly hated-on motor - and has recently run low 10's on a F-series block . . . N/A.
he must have put F22 into a CRX as well, i take it?

[HONDA GHANDI]

We should have a HAI D-series build off. Who can make the most HP with a D and $500 build money.

[myshtern]

We should have a HAI D-series build off. Who can make the most HP with a D and $500 build money.
Do tool prices count?

I think I will be able to compete in this, but I am afraid to push my engine too far.

[wild.irish]

let's include all unpopular engines, D-series, F-series, and compare them once this summer at a track

[myshtern]

Ok, but we need a handicap for displacement

[HONDA GHANDI]

D and F would be apples and oranges. Alex, No it would not include tools or freebies.

[David]

im up for a D-series build off

prepare to get owned :cool:

I already know Alex's stratagy, stack 4 headgaskets ontop of eachother to get a compression ratio of 4.5:1

[Weston]

im up for a D-series build off

prepare to get owned :cool:

I already know Alex's stratagy, stack 4 headgaskets ontop of eachother to get a compression ratio of 4.5:1

:rofl:

[STIBungy]

ROFLMAO!!!

I already know Alex's stratagy, stack 4 headgaskets ontop of eachother to get a compression ratio of 4.5:1

[rmcdaniels]

im up for a D-series build off

prepare to get owned :cool:

I already know Alex's stratagy, stack 4 headgaskets ontop of eachother to get a compression ratio of 4.5:1
Don't forget sandblasting the spark plugs.

[myshtern]

I already know Alex's stratagy, stack 4 headgaskets ontop of eachother to get a compression ratio of 4.5:1
and I'll still be faster than you ;NutKick;

[TheJackal]

mike, silver crx, wraps his b16, high comp, to 10.5 daily.. I have watched him do it on the AFC numberous times. Of course he has some head upgrades but it can be done very easily...

They dont rev DSM's that high because the trannys wont shift at anything over 9 grand, unless you run a dogbox. I have seen a stock head goto 9 without any problems. I plan to take mine to 8.5 as my rev limiter on a stock head, You need cams to go this high...

Next seaon I might build my head, but I wont be taking it past 8500.

For archive purposes, strokers cant rev as high because the piston speed is already elevated.

[i drive crap]

D and F would be apples and oranges. Alex, No it would not include tools or freebies.
Oooh oooh... I'm on Tobi's team! Let's get a D motor and put it in the CRX!

[wild.irish]

Let's get a D motor and put it in the CRX!
it's like a perfect time for such build up. there are D block and tranny for sale right now ;)

curious, will a D-engine fit into first gen CRX?

edit: i mean like easily fit, without budgeting off for hasport mounts or complicated welding

[David]

CRXs came with a D-series engine didn't they?

[i drive crap]

CRXs came with a D-series engine didn't they?
1gen crx's have an ep series motor... but the JDM 1g has a brown top ZC, and the 86-87 USDM d16a1 <integra> will bolt right up in the 1g.

[wild.irish]

1gen crx's have an ep series motor... but the JDM 1g has a brown top ZC, and the 86-87 USDM d16a1 <integra> will bolt right up in the 1g.
the code on my 1st gen is even more weird - EW1 or something like that. 1st gen CRX Si

cool. this might make up my next project

[i drive crap]

the code on my 1st gen is even more weird - EW1 or something like that. 1st gen CRX Si

cool. this might make up my next project
I meant EW... sorry. It's the non-hemi one with 2 valve cover bolts. Stupid EW motor

[JDTypeX]

this sounds like a blast but I think we might need to think of what everything is worth, because if I (Or probably Toby in this case) happens to have all the parts in his garage to make a 9 second D series, then he wouldn't be spending 500 dollars. Compared to someone who's going to be buying a block/head/tranny... etc. And I agree about the F and D's being apples and oranges, that much difference in displacement is bound to make pretty big torque differences, eh shit, horse too really. 1.6 to a 2.2... Lets try to narrow down some rules, this will be fun

[myshtern]

The whole fun of this is to keep it within $500
Making a 9 second car with a d-series would be retarded

[David]

Tobi will be like the Iron Chief...you cant really expect to beat him but we can still try

what exactly counts as a mod? is it just engine internal stuff like rods, pistons, cams, ect...or do we include stuff like turbos, manifolds, intercooler, ect?

[HONDA GHANDI]

Thats really the issue. For $500 anyone can slap on 1000 shot of NAWZ and win the competition. Im thinking it would be restricted to external mods and no bottles. To make the competition really fair I would have to supply everyone with stock D series motors that are all pretested and within 2% of each other. How about instead we have a D series dyno shootout where the winner is the guy with the most hp per dollar spent?

[myshtern]

Thats really the issue. For $500 anyone can slap on 1000 shot of NAWZ and win the competition. Im thinking it would be restricted to external mods and no bottles. To make the competition really fair I would have to supply everyone with stock D series motors that are all pretested and within 2% of each other. How about instead we have a D series dyno shootout where the winner is the guy with the most hp per dollar spent?
Yeah - only external mods

Only sucky thing about a dyno shootout is that whoever has the most balls will pretty much win.

[David]

so then my turbo setup would have to be counted as money spent?

[Skaterkid]

Yeah - only external mods

Only sucky thing about a dyno shootout is that whoever has the most balls will pretty much win.
You might as well give up then. ;)

[wild.irish]

I suppose it would be fair to separate FI from NA cars. i expect hp for a buck would be very different for all-motor and forced engines.

[David]

I think the $500 engine internal limit was a good idea. Allows us to find a reasonable limit on the engines and it still requires some engine building knowledge.

either way im in for it as long as I can compete, I just need a reason to do a ghetto engine build :D

[TheJackal]

If I knew more about hondas I would be down....

Another thing you guys need to find out is, if your running pump gas or race gas or any gas.

[myshtern]

93 Octane Max

David, you have to take components out of your setup to get to our $500 budget.
Austin, most of these setups will use 50% DSM parts, so you can still compete :)

[gjcivic]

I wouldn't really say the D series bottom end is strong. Shooting a rod through the block is pretty common on people who push the motor. But when you can replace the block for under $100 ;GiVeS:

you'll give a fuck when you throw that rod at 4:45 in the morning, in the middle of basically nowhere, then you have to walk your ass 2 miles home in 15 degree wether wearing a pair of scrubs and an Old Navy Fleese... (yep, thats how my wendsday went....)


Tobi, you have any good hookups on a d16z6? probably just need the short block, but won't know untill I tear it out, maybe this weekend.... really need to find something. Mom and dad let me borrow their tahoe, and it sucks gas and balls........

[David]

you'll give a fuck when you throw that rod at 4:45 in the morning, in the middle of basically nowhere, then you have to walk your ass 2 miles home in 15 degree wether wearing a pair of scrubs and an Old Navy Fleese... (yep, thats how my wendsday went....)


Tobi, you have any good hookups on a d16z6? probably just need the short block, but won't know untill I tear it out, maybe this weekend.... really need to find something. Mom and dad let me borrow their tahoe, and it sucks gas and balls........
that sucks, my car overheated in this town called 'tiny town' at 1AM and I was stuck at an RTD park and ride for about 8 hours, I know how you feel :(

I came across this block a couple days ago, seems like an ok deal and hes not far away from you:
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1117536

[danegod]

Oooh oooh... I'm on Tobi's team! Let's get a D motor and put it in the CRX!

Ive got a CRX HF you can use. 1500 bucks and its yours just the way it is. No interior stock wheels, and i keep the soudn system (sorry lots of money in that) or 1800 bucks and you can have the head unit of the stereo system in there.

an HF body with a F22, now your talking quickness.

[i drive crap]

Ive got a CRX HF you can use. 1500 bucks and its yours just the way it is. No interior stock wheels, and i keep the soudn system (sorry lots of money in that) or 1800 bucks and you can have the head unit of the stereo system in there.

an HF body with a F22, now your talking quickness.
I've got a 1G CRX SI that is just screaming for a d engine swap, and weighs almost nothing. It's not very pretty but at least it's rusty (god's weight reduction plan). I picked it up for 300 bucks and put a pick and pull $45 trans in it, and it's just now starting to smoke some with 200K on it.

[TheJackal]

93 Octane Max

David, you have to take components out of your setup to get to our $500 budget.
Austin, most of these setups will use 50% DSM parts, so you can still compete :)

Its not going to be won just on boost, theres several other factors, and most of it honda stuff that will win the competition

[wild.irish]

I've got a 1G CRX SI
wanna race? ;)

[gjcivic]

thanks david... that might save my ass!

[i drive crap]

wanna race? ;)
right now mine runs 18.0's, but has run a best of 17.8!!! damn... that's blistering fast. Plus I did some 1-2 back to 1 shifts <sloppy shift linkage>, and probably reved the poor old 1g to around 9K... it's still running!

[hsunchen]

Tobi will be like the Iron Chief...you cant really expect to beat him but we can still try

what exactly counts as a mod? is it just engine internal stuff like rods, pistons, cams, ect...or do we include stuff like turbos, manifolds, intercooler, ect?

Can I pay Tobi $500 to tune my N/A D-series that I've already built? I never really had the $1500+ that went into the motor (i.e. paid for parts/labor with a credit card before I ever earned it), so it's sorta like I never really spent it . . . kinda. :cry:

[David]

im sure tobi would be more than happy to tune a N/A D series for $500 :D

[ryanman]

$500 bucks to tune a car? DAYUM, I'm stealing my dads dyno and moving back!!!!

[HONDA GHANDI]

I think I would feel to guilty to take that much money for an NA car. I tuned a VAFC on a Turboe'd Paseo the other day in like 10 minutes. Felt bad about charging for the full hour so I didnt.

[TheJackal]

I think I would feel to guilty to take that much money for an NA car. I tuned a VAFC on a Turboe'd Paseo the other day in like 10 minutes. Felt bad about charging for the full hour so I didnt.


Why did he use a VAFC on a paseo? Do they have valve timing that you can control with it?

[ryanman]

yup


edit : well some of them

[Skaterkid]

Why did he use a VAFC on a paseo? Do they have valve timing that you can control with it?
Probably wanted more tuning points and just had the switchover point above his rev limiter. I don't think any Paseo ever had VVTLi.

[Weston-work]

Yeah, I don't think they have any VTEC-like system, or at least not one that can be controlled with a VAFC. Using a VAFC on a non-VTEC engine is a good way to get more adjustment points... gives you a lot more precision with the fuel curve. All you have to do is not hook up the VTEC and VTM wires, then set the fake VTEC points to the middle of your RPMs and use the low cam settings for everything below that, and the hi cam settings for everything above it. You can even hook up a switch to the VAFC's VTEC input wire and use it to instantly alter the fuel mixture either above or below the fake VTEC point by using the VTEC un-match setting.

[ryanman]

I thought some of the newer ones had variable valve timing? Maybe not.

[TheJackal]

Yeah, I don't think they have any VTEC-like system, or at least not one that can be controlled with a VAFC. Using a VAFC on a non-VTEC engine is a good way to get more adjustment points... gives you a lot more precision with the fuel curve. All you have to do is not hook up the VTEC and VTM wires, then set the fake VTEC points to the middle of your RPMs and use the low cam settings for everything below that, and the hi cam settings for everything above it. You can even hook up a switch to the VAFC's VTEC input wire and use it to instantly alter the fuel mixture either above or below the fake VTEC point by using the VTEC un-match setting.

Oh ok makes sense for the most part.. I didnt think you would be able to control any "VTEC" type of thing on a paseo anyways...

[tsitim]

I think I would feel to guilty to take that much money for an NA car. I tuned a VAFC on a Turboe'd Paseo the other day in like 10 minutes. Felt bad about charging for the full hour so I didnt.DAMN! Tobi do you think the bill collectors will feel guilty when you cant pay them? 'oh sorry I cant afford all my lease this month I felt guilty charging a full hour on a car when I finished supa-dupa-fast on a customers car.


Or what about when you get a hooker and you nutt all fast! huh? should she have to give you half the money back because she felt guilty you cant hang? come-on she has 2 babies sitting at home on the floor crying because they're hungry. ;)

[ryanman]

:rofl: