Shifting problem

[Weston]

Lately my car has been having issues shifting, especially at high rpms (up or down shift). It feels really notchy and it just will not go into gear some times, but other times it's fine. This seems to affect every gear too. The clutch fluid level stays the same, so it's not leaking. I bled it real good last night, but it didn't help the problem. The clutch (Exedy organic racing clutch) and throwout bearing only have 22k miles on them... I'm definately making more power than that clutch was meant to handle, but it does not slip at all.

Any ideas?

[STIBungy]

My civic was really hard to shift after that cruise we did last weekend. I was going to get under the car to see if the shift linkage bolt might have gotten itself too tight or something but I think it may be more than just that.

[RiceNmotioN]

weak......j/p...tranny gone bad? i know i blew my LSD and i couldent move but shifting was fine...thinkking the gears are not letting you get into the gear...witch mean to me grinding? or No?

[Weston]

My tranny was rebuilt less than a year ago by Tobi. It doesn't grind... it just doesn't want to go into gear at all, and it seems to affect all of the gears, so it's not a synchro problem. I'd expect it to be some sort of problem with the clutch or the shift linkage/gear selector, but I don't know what. It's far from being a big problem, but it's definately noticable that something is acting different lately.

[STIBungy]

Same with mine. Mine doesnt grind either. Sometimes, when I'm trying to go to 1st, I have to shift to 2nd before I cant fully engage 1st. Otherwise, I can only shift it partway and it grinds. Sometimes when I try to go to reverse, I have to shift it into another gear before reverse will engage.

Weston, you have to same problems?

[Kwando]

quit shifting without the clutch!

[HONDA GHANDI]

SOunds like the pressure plate is starting to fail. They get hot spots on them and tend to grab. Of course to be sure Id have to look at it when it is doing it.

[djet820]

Same with mine. Mine doesnt grind either. Sometimes, when I'm trying to go to 1st, I have to shift to 2nd before I cant fully engage 1st. Otherwise, I can only shift it partway and it grinds. Sometimes when I try to go to reverse, I have to shift it into another gear before reverse will engage.

Weston, you have to same problems?

thats just how the trannies work because the reverse locks unless you were in first. Last thing you want to do is be in third gear and accidentaly drop it into reverse lol.

Weston do you have a short shifter?

[HONDA GHANDI]

thats just how the trannies work because the reverse locks unless you were in first.


Wrong. Reverse has a straight cut gear and no synchros. The gear has very large tooth faces to prevent accidental engagemanet when moving forward. When you stick it in first the first gear synchros will move the shaft slightly causing the reverse gear to realign. The same thing can be acheived if you try to engage reverse and slightly lift the clutch pedal out enough to start the rotation of the input shaft. It will pop right in. The only lockout inthe B sereis tranny is from 5th to reverse. If youre in 5th it wont go directly to reverse, the shifter has to be let loose in the gate first.

[Weston]

Same with mine. Mine doesnt grind either. Sometimes, when I'm trying to go to 1st, I have to shift to 2nd before I cant fully engage 1st. Otherwise, I can only shift it partway and it grinds. Sometimes when I try to go to reverse, I have to shift it into another gear before reverse will engage.

Weston, you have to same problems?

I've always had that problem with 1st and reverse, with both transmissions... it's just a normal thing. Downshifting into 1st can be accomplished if you blip the throttle while the clutch is in to get the revs right.

...
Weston do you have a short shifter?

Nope... it would be pretty counter-productive for me to have one, and I don't feel like destroying my synchros either.

[djet820]

Wrong. Reverse has a straight cut gear and no synchros. The gear has very large tooth faces to prevent accidental engagemanet when moving forward. When you stick it in first the first gear synchros will move the shaft slightly causing the reverse gear to realign. The same thing can be acheived if you try to engage reverse and slightly lift the clutch pedal out enough to start the rotation of the input shaft. It will pop right in. The only lockout inthe B sereis tranny is from 5th to reverse. If youre in 5th it wont go directly to reverse, the shifter has to be let loose in the gate first.

Sweet! now I look like an idiot! But now I know

And Weston, that's what I was thinking. A lot of people haev problems shifting when they get an ebay short shifter in their car.

[myshtern]

Why?
Whats wrong with short shifters?

[wild.irish]

shortshifters make your shifts shorter (wow, i'm so damn logical today), and the tradeoff is the bigger force that you need to apply to shift the gear. normally, you don't notice that, but sometimes you have to force the shifter into gear. happens to me very frequently at 2nd gear.

also, about the clutch and shifting. on my car back in russia i had this problem of sticking gears. i mean, sometimes shifter would just stuck in some gear, and the only way to disengage it would be to turn off the engine. turned out it was the clutch fork (?) that didn't completely disengage the clutch. (i'm not sure i remember what it was correctly).

[HONDA GHANDI]

I think there is a misnomer about short shifters. The tranny doesnt actually resist shifts any more with a short shifter, it takes the exact same amount of force. With a SS you are merely changing your leverage advantage in order to cause less travel on the shifter end. I think the guys that have problems with their trannies blame them on the shifter but really the problem lies with the fact that they have a SS and now they shift the car like its a drag car. This will cause grinding gears and eventually tranny failure. Both of which you can acheive with a stock shifter also. Ive had short shifters in all of my cars and the only one I have had trouble with is the race car. For obvious reasons. The SS requires you to be more precise with your shifts, also giving your tranny an excuse to crap on you if you are not always on time with the left pedal.

My 2 cents.

[djet820]

Well I just changed short shifters tonight from an ebay cheapo one to a B&M one and it's definitely smoother. The short shifter from ebay would make it grind when I was in high rpms shifting into 2nd. With this one it's smooth, just like a stock shifter. I guess the ones that are designed right will actually hurt your tranny but that's just my experience. And all that time I thought I needed to change tranny fluids.

[Weston]

Ok, I have a little more info on the problem now... pushing the clutch in will disengauge the the engine from the transmission and the revs will fall like normal, but it's when I try to put it in another gear that it occassionally acts like I'm not stepping on the clutch pedal (or not stepping on it enough; it doesn't grind, it just really resists me putting it in gear, so I back off rather than forcing it). However, I can shift without the clutch with no problem (if I get the revs right, of course).

I pulled the little clutch/flywheel cover off, on the off-chance that it would give me a clue, but there were no clutch bits or anything else noticable in there. I did notice a lot of oil all over the very back of the oil pan and around where the left axle enters the transmission... it would appear that maybe that axle seal is leaking (the oil filter and oil feed line are right above there too, but no signs of either leaking). Could low transmission oil cause this problem?

If I were to drop the transmission and look at the pressure plate, would it be obvious if there's something wrong with it?

[STIBungy]

You didnt have any problems driving home last night in 5th gear did you? Usually if tranny fluid was low 5th gear will pop out.

[Weston]

No problems with it popping out of gear... it just acts like I'm not stepping on the clutch when I go to put it in another gear at high rpms. Only seems to happen at high rpms.

[HONDA GHANDI]

SOunds like your pressure plate is giving it up. That is if the hydraulics are all in good shape.

[Weston]

Is there any good way to test the hydraulics? I don't see it losing fluid or hear it squeeking, but I hope there's a better way to tell than that...

[HONDA GHANDI]

not really. If its not leaking I usually do a power flush, if the problem doenst change its usually a sign that the hydraulics are ok and the PP is going away.

[Bedlam]

not really. If its not leaking I usually do a power flush, if the problem doenst change its usually a sign that the hydraulics are ok and the PP is going away.

Ever think that you might know just too much about hondas? (and cars in general) damn.. :) I have my own car problems for sure..but I always read everyone elses just so I might learn something.

-Bedlam

[Weston]

Ok... if I drop the tranny and look at the pressure plate, will there be any visible indication if it is giving up? What exactly would it be failing to do if this is the problem? Thanks.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Ever think that you might know just too much about hondas? -Bedlam

Never, SOmetimes I still run into that very special car that ;NutKick; me and I feel really stupid.

There is no visual inspection really Weston. The PP gets hot spots on it that "stick" to the disc when hot. Smae with the FW side. The springs could also be bad but theres really no way to tell except replace the clutch.

[Bedlam]

Never, SOmetimes I still run into that very special car that ;NutKick; me and I feel really stupid.

Run into that in my business sometimes too..most of the time its prolly caused by the same type of thing that causes it to happen with cars..the user. :p

Ohh..I had my brother Joe-bob over here..the mechanic, and he tried to replace the kodocombobulater with a flux capacitor upgrade kit from pep boys..and things just started to go wrong! Can you fix it?

-Bedlam

[forum]

Run into that in my business sometimes too..most of the time its prolly caused by the same type of thing that causes it to happen with cars..the user. :p

Ohh..I had my brother Joe-bob over here..the mechanic, and he tried to replace the kodocombobulater with a flux capacitor upgrade kit from pep boys..and things just started to go wrong! Can you fix it?

-Bedlam
lol

[H22A_civic]

if its hard shifting into gears and sometimes will not come out of gear when you step on the clutch it is most likely the springs in the disc that is ready to fall out. what you discribed sounds like what happen to my civic and my gf integra. hope that helps?

[T_sp00n_U]

i think im having the same problem u are having right now

[HONDA GHANDI]

if its hard shifting into gears and sometimes will not come out of gear when you step on the clutch it is most likely the springs in the disc that is ready to fall out. what you discribed sounds like what happen to my civic and my gf integra. hope that helps?


Your problem is usually accompanied by a grinding noise that changes pitch/tone when the clutch pedal is depressed. IT also can cause a vibration in the clutch pedal if it gets bad enough.

[Weston]

I finally got off my ass and pulled the tranny, and three pieces of metal fell out as I pulled the pressure plate off. 3 out of the 4 springs were partially popped out, and most had indications of metal-to-metal contact. Fortunately, all of the loose pieces were between the clutch disc and the pressure plate, so it did not damage the flywheel. But I was very very close to having all hell break loose on the other side of the disc and killing the flywheel.

http://www.ApexRacingMedia.net/pics/BustedClutch1.jpg
http://www.ApexRacingMedia.net/pics/BustedClutch2.jpg
http://www.ApexRacingMedia.net/pics/BustedClutch3.jpg

[ryanman]

I've had a few clutch disks tear themselves apart in my days, my first and only Exedy clutch in my Talon last summer lasted me 100 miles. Exedy = crap

[rmcdaniels]

I've seen that happen on a few cars that use their clutch hard. Would an unsprung hub disk work for racing? They're cheap and a 6-puck is pretty drivable after you get used to it (cheap too).

[HONDA GHANDI]

That is the reason for unsprung clutches. They do take a little getting used to but can be driveable on the street. They can take their toll on tranny parts though. That driveline shock taken up by the springs has to go somewhere.

[Weston-work]

I just ordered an ACT XTSS kit, since it came highly recommended from several sources. Hopefully it's worth the money... ProStreetOnline is running a 10% off deal on ACT clutches, but it still wasn't cheap at $430.