N/A DSM vs. F/I DSM

[myshtern]

As many of you know, I am looking into buying a DSM

I obviously want boost but all the boosted DSMs I have been looking at are high mileage cars that been pushed and whatnot. They are more expensive too. I just dont like a car that has been mistreated before me. Also, with the N/A I would probably be getting cheaper insurance.

But I still want boost

So I was thinking about just doing a turbo setup on the N/A models but dont know how difficult that would be.

Are the N/A engines the same just without the turbo and components?
Or are they totally different?
Like whats the compression difference, is the fuel system the same, those types of things.

So if I was to turbo an N/A DSM what components would I have to replace?
How complex and expensive would it be?

Thanks,
- Alex

[Weston]

Just buy the damn turbo model to begin with. The NA version comes with a crappy Chrysler engine, and putting a turbo on it will be more expensive than if you had just bought the turbo model to begin with. It will also be much crappier and less reliable (if you were to call a DSM "reliable").

DSMs are dirt cheap, turbo or not.

[DSMRacer657]

Well lets see you can buy a NA dsm like I did and make it run with stock turbo DSM's :fu: ;NutKick;

[Weston]

Why would you want to run with stock turbo DSMs? They are slow.

[CT9A]

I think that the 1g models have the same engine, just minus the turbo, in both N/A and turbo.

If you want a 2g, just get the GSX/GST.

[stu]

Well lets see you can buy a NA dsm like I did and make it run with stock turbo DSM's :fu: ;NutKick;


Yeah Alex, get an N/A DSM and spend twice as much as a turbo model making it run mid 15's. You'd be so cool then. :rolleyes:

[hoffman]

If you don't get an AWD model you will kick yourself in the nuts.

Trust me. I did for the 2 years I had a GST.

So what if it has high miles. Get it cheap and rebuild it. You'd still end up with a new car for under $5k.

[myshtern]

Well I dont know much about DSMs, thats why I asked.

Someone from another board told me that the 1g N/A engine is the same as the turbo engine just without the turbo.

[STIBungy]

Hrm, maybe you should stick to something you're familiar with......oh wait, nevermind. :D

[stu]

It's the same engine, but I don't think that it will hold the same amount of boost in stock form, and for some reason, you can't just swap a turbo motor into it.

But, like Hoffman said, even if you did convert an N/A model to turbo, you'd still be FWD, and that's a dumb move when AWD is available to you.

[doctorstupid]

the 1st gen 14B can support 16-17psi, you run out of fuel before boost. first gens have either a 4G63 (the good engine) or a 1.8L SOHC sorry excuse for an engine. as long as it says "2000 DOHC" on the valve cover, it's a good engine.

if you want cheap and runing well, you want my talon ;). i almost got all the boost leaks fixed (there's one that's eluding me at the moment somewhere in the vacuum lines), and i hooked up a datalogger, this shit runs like a dream :)

[ryanman]

I'll sell my Talon for $6500 bucks, I have 3 times that much into it.

[myshtern]

I'll sell my Talon for $6500 bucks, I have 3 times that much into it.
Sorry ryanman but thats a little out of my price range, otherwise I would be very interested

doctorstoopid, I will be PMing you shortly

Another question, how difficult would it be to just swap the engine?

[saabracr]

SAAB 9000 turbo.

Cheaper
More reliable than a DSM
More space (hauls a couch)
Doesn't even blip on insurance radar
Safety
Exhaust + Boost controller = 14.5 et

Unique

[ryanman]

SAAB 9000 turbo.


More reliable than a DSM


Exhaust + Boost controller = 14.5 et

Unique


BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAAA = to reliable comment


Stock dsm = 14.5

They're unique alright, LOL.

[john]

Do yourself a favor & find an already turboed car. The expense & time it'd take to build & turbocharge an N/A motor (ok - hahn racecraft makes kits for the 420a neon motor) would just piss me off to no end.

[doctorstupid]

Do yourself a favor & find an already turboed car. The expense & time it'd take to build & turbocharge an N/A motor (ok - hahn racecraft makes kits for the 420a neon motor) would just piss me off to no end.
:werd:

to make an n/a dsm turbo would take enough money and time that you would just wish you'd bought a turbo in the first place. even the engine swap requires a lot of little shit, but it has been done and there is lots of info on the matter. but it's still not wortwhile, in my opinion.

[stu]

I second the Saab idea.

[hoffman]

I did the N/T to Turbo kit on a 97 GS. Car still wasn't as fast as my stocker. So we built the long block. Still not as fast as my gsx with just a clutch, intake and exhaust.

Drop the non-turbo to turbo idea. All the money you will spend to upgrade and get parts would be better spent on a car that already has a turbo.

[LeonZ]

Dont rush. Like everyone said, it is better to buy a turboed DSM. It might take you longer to find a decent GSX or TSi AWD model with decent mileage and not too beat up but they are out there and it will be worth it. A lot of people spend months looking for 1st gen 2.5 RS Imprezas but they are out there.

[V8SpankR]

SAAB 9000 turbo.

Cheaper
More reliable than a DSM
More space (hauls a couch)
Doesn't even blip on insurance radar
Safety
Exhaust + Boost controller = 14.5 et

Unique

The cool factor doesn't match a DSM (low 12s up here on stock engine) plus dragging a Saab will be more expensive when things break. How reliable are Saabs when modded and can the stock engine handle over 400 crankhorse?

[chris_venturini]

so alex, going to buy a dsm... i can foresee it all....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/_scuba_/firecar.jpg

[Skaterkid]

Yeah, the FWD's suck. My friend has one with a 16G, the torque steer is pretty bad.

[doctorstupid]

so alex, going to buy a dsm... i can foresee it all....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/_scuba_/firecar.jpg
that sure is a funny looking dsm :confused:

[Weston]

let's find one, set it on fire, and see if it looks the same... :rofl:

[doctorstupid]

let's find one, set it on fire, and see if it looks the same... :rofl:
should have called me yesterday, i just hauled the laser to the junkyard. burning it would have been a lot more fun :rofl:

[stu]

Paul, I think the newer Saabs can get closer to 400hp on the stock motors than the older ones can. When I spent some time on Saab boards, everyone was running 30psi with water injection.

[Tra2xx]

I had to wait around a bit to find the right car AWD Turbo DSM, but eventually you will find one and be happy with it.

For now check out www.dsmtrader.com

Also sign up for CODSM to get lots of info/local classifieds - or RMDSM.org as some prefer

[saabracr]

Any Saab with a transverse layout will easily take upwards of 450 crank hp. The only hard parts to be replaced are the turbo and the obligitory exhaust plumbing. The stock intercooler is bigger than a DSM radiator. Tune it properly with an additional injector setup and it will cost very little and last very long. The old 900s (like mine) have very fragile transmissions however and do not take well to drag racing.

What breaks if you drag a (transverse) Saab? You will kill your engine mounts pretty quickly, probably blow a hole in an IC hose at high boost, cook an oversped stock turbo, but thats about it. There have been no accounts of holed blocks, burned valves, or headgaskets that have failed from anything other than age. The syncros will wear, but the tranny will take the power if you don't abuse it all the time.

Yes Ryan, a 1st gen 9000 is more reliable than a 1st gen DSM. I'd be surprised to find one with working AC, and the window and sunroof switches probably need a good cleaning, but with regular maintenance it will never leave you anywhere. Parts are cheaper than most Japanese and European cars, and the engine bay has plenty of room to work.

Did I mention insurance?

http://home.nycap.rr.com/stephens9000/images/Side_View.jpg

[ryanman]

Whatever homo. No way in hell a Saab is more reliable then a dsm. DSM's are actually known for their reliability and have been in the top 10 for most reliable cars ever built. Yes they are reliable as long as they are taken care of in which case most morons who own them now do not take care of them, only beat the shit outta them.

[stu]

I'd say that the average Saab is more reliable than the average DSM.

[Weston]

Sorry ryanman, but that one's going in the sig... :D

[ryanman]

Sorry ryanman, but that one's going in the sig... :D
It's true.

[Tra2xx]

No way in hell a Saab is more reliable then a dsm.


Sorry but I can't agree here. Both my parents drive saabs, my sister in law drives a saab, and my brother used to. Those are some of the most reliable cars I have seen in my entire life.
I didn't have a running car for a while, and i beat the crap out of my parents cars daily.

My dads car has over 100k on it now and the only problem he has had is his keyless entry reciever in the car broke, and he is having problems with the fuse for the windshield wipers/sprayers.

I own 3 DSMs also, so I know DSm reliability. It's not bad at all compared to their repuation. But they aren't as good as saabs from what I've seen.

[saabracr]

Whatever homo. No way in hell a Saab is more reliable then a dsm.

Here you go, dong taster:

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/faq/miles/miles9000.html

[doctorstupid]

reliability aside, DSM's don't have headlight wipers; that alone gives DSM's an instant 10 bonus points.

[saabracr]

Luckily the motors for them get in the way of custom IC piping. Mine went in the garbage shortly after I bought the car.

Reliability aside, Saab drivetrains don't seize at highway speeds. Oh wait, that is a reliability issue.

Oh yeah, and they don't say Eagle on them.

[doctorstupid]

technically, it's only half of the driveline that seizes.

[saabracr]

lol. I see. I've read some pretty heinous accounts of that.

[doctorstupid]

yeah, it's shitty. and the fact it has a wicked tendency to happen only above 70mph doesn't help much :rolleyes:

[saabracr]

Did they ever get a recall for that? When I was considering the DSM there was a lot of letter writing going on.

[doctorstupid]

NHTSA recall, the transfer case is now warrantied for the life of the vehicle. if there is any leakage, the dealer needs to replace the seal and the yoke plug (or whatever the hell the thing is called). any internal damage/undue wear gets you a new transfer case :)