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View Full Version : Discrimination against bikers/imports in Springs????


ryanman
07-28-2004, 08:36 AM
Saw this on another site, thought I'd post it here. This is a bunch of fucking BOOSHEET. Fuck the springs.


http://www.cosportbikeclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9172


Muffled bikers mad at city


By ED SEALOVER - THE GAZETTE

Motorcyclists from across the West are threatening to boycott Colorado Springs, accusing the city of targeting them with tickets to increase revenues.

Colorado Springs police have written four times as many tickets this year as they did by this time in 2003 for violations of a ban on loud modified exhaust systems.

The citations — more than 400 through May — are going to motorists who have replaced mufflers and whose vehicles are judged to be louder than legal limits because of modifications.

Almost all those ticketed drive two types of vehicles: motorcycles and small, European-style racing cars.

Police stepped up enforcement of the law after being deluged by noise complaints from residents, many of whom are disturbed by revving of motorcycles, said Depu- ty Chief Pat McElderry.

Area motorcycle activists are not opposed to such noise laws. They are angry, however, at how the ordinance is being enforced — by officers without decibel meters who are writing tickets claiming the bikes are too loud.

Some bikers say the police are handing out tickets based on the brand of muffler and that the tickets are meant to raise money for the city, not to curb noise.

“Imagine the outrage if they started handing out speeding tickets without radar guns,” said Jim Wear, owner of Pro Promotions, which arranges motorcycle events in the area. “We feel the same way about handing out noise violation tickets without decibel meters.

“The perception is that Colorado Springs is anti-motorcyclist, and they’re looking to gather revenue off motorcyclists.”

The city’s ordinance does not outlaw modified exhaust systems per se. It says modifications are illegal if they make the bike louder than it was originally.

This prohibition has been on city books for 30 years and is part of state law. Where Colorado Springs stands apart is through its noise ordinance, amended in the late 1990s.

The city got rid of most of its decibel meters because of budget problems in the 1980s, when meters were larger and more expensive.

City law was changed 10 years later to let officers cite noise violations without specific decibel readings.

Vice Mayor Richard Skorman said during his five years on the City Council, he has gotten as many calls about noise problems as any other subject.

Motorcycles roaring down Tejon Street particularly disturb patrons at sidewalk cafes, he said.

“It’s not fair to everybody else out there,” said Skorman, who owns three businesses on North Tejon Street.

Traffic officers got additional training late last year on how to spot modified exhaust systems, McElderry said. They were told to watch especially along two corridors — North Nevada Avenue by Fillmore Street and Tejon Street running through downtown.

Since then, $50 tickets with $10 surcharges — but carrying no points — have been going out at record pace. McElderry said he hopes riders learn lessons about modified exhaust systems if their wallets are lightened.

That’s not the way the bikers see it.

They think they are being targeted because of what they drive.

Harley Davidson rider Mike Quintana said officers have no idea how loud exhaust systems on the bikes were before they were replaced. When he was ticketed near Academy Boulevard and Austin Bluffs Parkway in April, the officer looked just at the brand on the muffler before writing him up, he said.

Wear, who owns a decibel meter, said there is little difference in noise between stock and modified mufflers, which usually are installed to increase bike performance. He charged that police ignore loud trucks and cars.

McElderry said the department does not keep a breakdown of the types of vehicles hit with modified exhaust violations.

Wear estimated after a day in court, however, that the ratio is 100 motorcycles for every car.

Jim Waldrep, a freelance journalist from Denver, spoke with Sgt. Steven Weber about the enforcement policy and claimed Weber told him: “If you are riding a motorcycle that does not have stock pipes, we don’t want you in our town or in our state.”

Weber denied saying that. Waldrep insisted the quote is accurate.

When Waldrep included it in an article published in the July edition of Southwest Scooter News, which circulates to 18 states, indignation spread.

Terry Hartnett, a biker from Tucson, Ariz., recently sent letters to Harley owners’ groups across the country asking members not to travel to Colorado Springs.

Waldrep said he’s heard from several motorcycle groups promising a boycott. Those include a Harley club from Denver and a woman from California, who said she and 30 friends skipped bike week at the Pikes Peak International Raceway this year.

If a boycott takes hold among major groups, the effects could be serious, said Tim Anderson, editor of Southwest Scooter News.

Anderson cited two annual events that bring bikers to town: the Run for the Wall trip from California to Washington, D.C., and the veterans bikers rally in Cripple Creek. Thousands of motorcyclists stay in area hotels, eat at restaurants and buy gas during each event.

“It would be fair to say that since we started publishing what’s going on down there that people are asking questions and saying, ‘Screw it, we’re not going there,’” Anderson said.

James Reed, a local attorney who does work for Wear, said the city’s enforcement of the law is unconstitutional.

When officers give noise violations without noise measurements, they are making arbitrary decisions, he said.

No one has challenged the law in court, Reed said.

Police are standing their ground. McElderry said he thinks officers are capable of identifying problem motorcycles and are sending the message that their noise is unacceptable.

Among City Council members, only Tom Gallagher has pushed to change the law or enforcement methods. A Harley owner, Gallagher said he thinks the city has lost $100,000 in sales-tax revenues because of riders staying away.

“Motorcycle enthusiasts are usually bankers, lawyers, accountants, doctors — it’s not like it was 20 years ago,” he said. “(Their business) could be a good thing for the community. But there’s this perception out there that they’re not welcome.”

Others, such as Councilman Larry Small, stand behind the police.

Small reiterated the sentiment while discussing Waldrep’s complaints that bike activists have used to whip up their furor.

“I would say that if he isn’t comfortable in Colorado Springs with our ordinances, he probably shouldn’t come to Colorado Springs,” Small said.

STIBungy
07-28-2004, 08:48 AM
Go figure. I still think of the Springs as I've always thought of: a hellhole.

exciv2000
07-28-2004, 08:51 AM
good. I'm sick of hearing ricers buzzing around everywhere I go too, or even if I'm sitting just out on the porch having a beer. Maybe other cities like Denver will catch on.

ryanman
07-28-2004, 08:54 AM
good. I'm sick of hearing ricers buzzing around everywhere I go too, or even if I'm sitting just out on the porch having a beer. Maybe other cities like Denver will catch on.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. :rolleyes:

Th3Cleaner
07-28-2004, 08:54 AM
European-style racing cars


um.. race cars shouldnt be on the street so this shouldnt be an issue.

Maybe it should have read, RiC3r-StYlZ l334 machineZ RacerCar Driv3rZ

Harleys should be banned for being "suxorz"
---------
But in all seriousness This was brought up at the beginning of the year by colorado sport bikes club, alot of croutch rocket riders were getting hammered for no other reason then a noise issue.. I agree complete BS cops suck ass thats nothing new, look at how manny people get beat by cops in LA and the rest of the country .. I never ever give to the FOP, I tell them they should do a better job before they will ever see any of my cash..

exciv2000
07-28-2004, 08:57 AM
you think I'm kidding?

Th3Cleaner
07-28-2004, 08:59 AM
no, i edit my post, I know its a issue that needs to be address'd..especialy since I live in Pueblo and hit up COSprings all the time.

damian9669
07-28-2004, 08:59 AM
nothing like hearing a loud ass bee buzzing about.ohh wait its a civic.lol.
The funniest thing ive seen so far is seeing a guy reving the shit out of his little rice mobile and the car sounds like it should be hauling ass but its barely moving. :rofl:

Robie
07-28-2004, 11:03 AM
dang, if they would only have an ordinance against loud mouth post whores. . . :rolleyes:

The major problem I have with the ordinance is that they are writing the ticket based on the exhaust system, not the sound level coming out of it...
That is like writing speeding tickets because your car is capable of breaking the speed limit...

So, for the cops that have nothing better to do but revenue enhance: 'ass:

And for all the other cops that actually make the city a nice place to live: :Beer:


Robie

DrJones
07-28-2004, 11:07 AM
I think that's fine... nothing wrong with what the cops are doing... I can't stand people who brake the law and are pissed when they get caught for it. If you are speeding, you are speeding, if you are stealing, you are stealing. If there is a law against modifiying your exhaust to be too loud and it is, then that's too bad.

I didn't read the whole thing, but I find it funny that up near the top it says:

Area motorcycle activists are not opposed to such noise laws. They are angry, however, at how the ordinance is being enforced — by officers without decibel meters who are writing tickets claiming the bikes are too loud.

They like the law but think it's bad it's being enforced.... what a load of bull crap. If their exhaust is modified and too loud then they are braking the law. They just want to get away with it because cops don't have the proper equipment. I'm pretty sure that ears are more than all they need... they are just trying to get away with it.

Fuck people who don't take responisibility for their own actions and then get pissed off and bitch online about it when they are forced to do so.

fodo
07-28-2004, 11:09 AM
i never see a muscle car getting pulled over for an exhaust system violation.

ryanman
07-28-2004, 11:12 AM
I think that's fine... nothing wrong with what the cops are doing... I can't stand people who brake the law and are pissed when they get caught for it. If you are speeding, you are speeding, if you are stealing, you are stealing. If there is a law against modifiying your exhaust to be too loud and it is, then that's too bad.

I didn't read the whole thing, but I find it funny that up near the top it says:



They like the law but think it's bad it's being enforced.... what a load of bull crap. If their exhaust is modified and too loud then they are braking the law. They just want to get away with it because cops don't have the proper equipment. I'm pretty sure that ears are more than all they need... they are just trying to get away with it.

Fuck people who don't take responisibility for their own actions and then get pissed off and bitch online about it when they are forced to do so.
Yeah but when they get a sticker WITH the exhaust system they purchased that says 50 state legal WTF are they suppose to do?

ryanman
07-28-2004, 11:13 AM
dang, if they would only have an ordinance against loud mouth post whores. . . :rolleyes:



Robie
Hey, fuck off.

ryanman
07-28-2004, 11:14 AM
i never see a muscle car getting pulled over for an exhaust system violation.
EXACTLY, it never happens. Same thing with Harley's, they don't get tickets cause it's a "harley". FUCK HARLEYS.

Robie
07-28-2004, 11:50 AM
Hey, fuck off.
Guilty! http://www.rr-bb.com/images/buttons/report.gif

hahaha


If their exhaust is modified and too loud then they are braking the law.
but at what point is it too loud, and how can you tell? Assuming that it is too loud just because it is modified isn't good law.

Robie

MKIII-Shoopra
07-28-2004, 12:18 PM
Guilty! http://www.rr-bb.com/images/buttons/report.gif

hahaha



but at what point is it too loud, and how can you tell? Assuming that it is too loud just because it is modified isn't good law.

Robie
anything over stock is illegal :-/

Dave_L
07-28-2004, 12:35 PM
I accept that having a modified exhaust is illegal and thats why i bought Hungs apexi exhaust. Its super quiet and still gives me performance. I was tired of getting stopped for modified exhaust. I also agree with ryanman tho bc i have a 68 camaro with a 350, headers with a flowmaster 2.5in exhaust with 40 series mufflers. Its really loud and i have never once been stopped or questioned about it by cops.

wild.irish
07-28-2004, 01:19 PM
i personally hate loud bike exhausts. because they are ten times louder than any of your ricer civic exhaust possible. it just has to be louder. i don't know alot about motorcycles, but i think the most loud of them are harley-type bikes, not speed bikes.

but if enforcement of this exhaust law is done empirically, without any tools to measure actual level of noise - i would immediately stand up in support of those bikers.

STIBungy
07-28-2004, 01:53 PM
Paul, would you like a cop to give you a DUI without doing a breathalizer test?

Same thing.

They like the law but think it's bad it's being enforced....
what a load of bull crap. If their exhaust is modified and too loud then they are braking the law. They just want to get away with it because cops don't have the proper equipment. I'm pretty sure that ears are more than all they need... they are just trying to get away with it.

DrJones
07-28-2004, 02:02 PM
Paul, would you like a cop to give you a DUI without doing a breathalizer test?

Same thing.

That's not the point i'm making. The point i'm making is that if you are drunk, and a cop arrests you for being so, without giving you a test, you shouldn't bitch about it. You were drunk, regardless. If you aren't drunk, and don't get a test, thats unfair, but if you blatently are, then it doesn't matter, you broke the law. It's not failing the test that's the crime, it's being drunk or having a loud exhaust that is... If you are doing that then the test shouldn't matter.

stu
07-28-2004, 02:05 PM
Paul, I think that in a lot of cases, the after market exhausts may not be much louder than the stock ones. So it'd be like having a few drinks, but not being drunk yet. Also, I have a feeling that most exhausts are well within the sound limit most of the time, but only get loud when you get on it. I see this like speeding. I can break the speed limit, but if I'm not doing so at the time, I shouldn't get a ticket. If a bike can break the sound law, but isn't at the time, then they shouldn't get ticketed.

Maxx
07-28-2004, 02:34 PM
I think the police are addressing a legitimate problem. I can tell you that MANY of the aftermarket exhausts do not comply with noise regulations. Just because they are quiet at idle, doesn't negate the fact that they surpass the DB limit at other RPM's (where they are primarily operated.)

Now, I do agree that handing out a ticket without a meter is silly. There needs to be some burden of proof on the part of the police deparment.

One thing that they did not mention is how many of the noise violation tickets were in addition to another offense. The article makes it sound like the police are going around issuing only noise violations, but I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the tickets were tied to a speeding ticket or something else.

Bedlam
07-28-2004, 05:32 PM
Now, I do agree that handing out a ticket without a meter is silly. There needs to be some burden of proof on the part of the police deparment.

If they are taking the time to check the BRAND of the muffler...sounds like they should have plenty of proof? If they started to pull over imports..and gave everyone with an apexi exhaust a ticket..it would be "fair" as well..a stock honda exhaust is quiet as hell..you made it louder..end of discussion.

-Bedlam

myshtern
07-28-2004, 05:48 PM
I totally agree with Paul.

These people just need to take responsibility.
Everyone knows if their exhaust is too loud. Everyone should have common sense that says, "This is probably illegal". If it is obnoxiously loud then why would anyone whine about being ticketed?

Personally, I would probably have a semi-loud exhaust so I am not against it. If I did however get a ticket for it, I wouldnt blame the police for it.

One thing however does piss me off. The fuckin Harley Davidsons with no fuckin muffler.
Nobody is pulling those bitches over!!!!
I have had those things wake me up at night when my room is in the fuckin basement. I hate them. I dont understand why cops wont ticket them.

MKIII-Shoopra
07-28-2004, 06:58 PM
I totally agree with Paul.

These people just need to take responsibility.
Everyone knows if their exhaust is too loud. Everyone should have common sense that says, "This is probably illegal". If it is obnoxiously loud then why would anyone whine about being ticketed?

Personally, I would probably have a semi-loud exhaust so I am not against it. If I did however get a ticket for it, I wouldnt blame the police for it.

One thing however does piss me off. The fuckin Harley Davidsons with no fuckin muffler.
Nobody is pulling those bitches over!!!!
I have had those things wake me up at night when my room is in the fuckin basement. I hate them. I dont understand why cops wont ticket them.
well, cops are pretty leanent on bikes due to the fact that it helps them be seen so they dont get hit by people in there blind spots...

I belive the law should have a certain dB for all cars that is a decent level... It should be legal for me to drive with my silencer in..

2000SiVTEC
07-28-2004, 08:18 PM
I don't really care. The CSPD does a fine job keeping this city nice and crime down. So if they feel the need to hand out loud exhaust tickets so be it. If I got one in any of my vehicles I would pay it and go on with my life. I would never trade living here for living in Denver of all places...someone called it a hellhole here, I would have to say it is a much nicer city to live in than denver.

Skaterkid
07-28-2004, 08:19 PM
Rob's right, the enforcement of the law is not uniform. I have a big 2.5 inch exhaust with a 4 inch tip, but it is very very quiet due to the turbo. It's like a cop writing a speeding ticket because you "looked" like you were going too fast.

Th3Cleaner
07-28-2004, 09:12 PM
I don't really care. The CSPD does a fine job keeping this city nice and crime down. So if they feel the need to hand out loud exhaust tickets so be it. If I got one in any of my vehicles I would pay it and go on with my life. I would never trade living here for living in Denver of all places...someone called it a hellhole here, I would have to say it is a much nicer city to live in than denver.you atitude about it is lame, without warrant.. maybe they just give you a tix for the color of your skin for no reason other then they feel they have the right..

this is america right?
They have no right to hand a tix to anyone unless its breaking a written law thats posted and enforced. How does the officer determin whats too loud vs whats not? If he uses his own abilities then that's wrong, he needs to have a .db device that determins the sound pressure levels.other then that they are wasting tax payers time and money, and by god im a tax payer in the 38% range... so in the words of dr dre....fuck the police and a 502

and speaking of harley i betcha alot the cops pulling over people for noise ride those POS bikes...