myshtern wants a flame war

[SleeperZ]

I think Paul Johnson needs to RIP, so you want to talk shit, do it here instead.

Shut up, you would never applaud it if bush did, neither would any other liberal. If pearl harbor posed a threat to America or its allies during WWII, it would have been destroyed. If any country had threatened to nuke America or its allies before the cold war ended it would have been dealt with an iron fist.

But anyway, wheather you would applaud it or not, you know what the democratic party and John Kerry would do. They would show bush as a war monger and he shouldnt be president wheather it was the right thing to do or not.

But 1 thing I dont understand about liberals hating bush for going to iraq. Whether you think it was done for the right reasons or not, wasnt it a huge humanitarian movement?
I am going to make a generalized stereotype here, but I know it is generally true. Vegetarians are liberal. They are vegetarians because attacking meat is wrong so they are showing their conviction for it. But those same liberal vegetarians hate bush for going to Iraq. If I was a vegetarian for those reasons, I would all for going into Iraq. Why havent we heard the huge animal and human rights groups speaking FOR Bush?

Shut up? Fuck you.

Bush is a war monger. The humanitarian argument only surfaced when WMD and the al-Queda arguments turned out to be fraudulent. Now that doesn't wash with our torturing Iraqis in Abu Graib. If this country was truly threatened, I would rise to defend it alongside most everyone else. Manufacturing threats, secrecy and lies will not garner my support.

So does your generalization apply to vegetarian cars as well? That's all my signature says - it doesn't claim that I am vegetarian (which I'm not). Just goes to show how useful sterotypes and generalizations are...
:rolleyes:

[Dustin]

*Hypothetical*

Nathan, If you were the President of the United States, and were being told from multiple sources such as Russia (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/goto/?getPage=http%3A%2F%2Fapnews%2Emyway%2Ecom%2Fartic le%2F20040618%2FD839DV0O1%2Ehtml&return=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edrudgereportarchives%2Ec om%2Fdsp%2Fsearch%2Ehtm%3FsearchFor%3DPutin)
and CIA telling you there is a LINK (http://www.drudgereportarchives.com/goto/?getPage=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eupi%2Ecom%2Fview%2Ecfm %3FStoryID%3D20040620%2D050700%2D2315r&return=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edrudgereportarchives%2Ec om%2Fdsp%2Flinks%5Frecap%2Ehtm) between al-qaeda and Iraq. After your country was just attacked because a prior admininistraton did not take the proper pre-emptive action to stop future terriost attacks could you sit by idle? You have two sources amongs't others i'm sure! who are telling you Al-Qaeda and Iraq are planning attacks on your soil, either Cooperatively or as seperate entities. What are you do to? Go to the United Nations?hahaha Call up Saddam and ask him to be nice? I think it's easy to criticize, but if your seeing overwhelming evidence that somebody is planning to hurt your family you are going to take pre-emptive action.

[DrJones]

I think Paul Johnson needs to RIP, so you want to talk shit, do it here instead.



Shut up? Fuck you.

Bush is a war monger. The humanitarian argument only surfaced when WMD and the al-Queda arguments turned out to be fraudulent. Now that doesn't wash with our torturing Iraqis in Abu Graib. If this country was truly threatened, I would rise to defend it alongside most everyone else. Manufacturing threats, secrecy and lies will not garner my support.

So does your generalization apply to vegetarian cars as well? That's all my signature says - it doesn't claim that I am vegetarian (which I'm not). Just goes to show how useful sterotypes and generalizations are...
:rolleyes:

first of all, 'we' as in 'america' or 'bush's county' weren't torturing shit. The torturing was done by a few un educated dumb shits. It has nothing to do with bush, the war, iraq, oil, or anything else. All it does is show how fucking retarded some americans can be. Saying 'we' were torturing them is like saying those two guys were 'beheded' It doesn't describe the situation. A few dumb shit soldiers were torturing Iraqis, and those two men were murdered.

Al queda arguments aren't fradulent. Come on... even Clinton's administration was drawing links between sadam and al queda. Sadam let them open a terrorist training camp on his ground and protected it with his soldiers. Is that not supporting them? Besides, if they weren't connected, then why are crazy Al queda members getting so pissed off about the war and prisoner abuse and mudring americans because of it? If there wasn't any kind of link why would they care?

What do you define as our country being at risk? What if say a couple of planes were hijaked and flown into buildings on our soil. Would that be enough of a threat to get you motivated? Look at all the terrorist threats and plans that have been found since sept 11th.

Do you honestly think we are safe now? Do you think on Sept 12th Osama said to himself "ok, that'll show 'em. We can go home now". NO Of course not! They will continue to try things untill they and the people who support them are gone.

They will try to attack us more. If you do feel safe and not threatened, than the only reason is because of all the shit that Bush has done to increase security and go out there and whoop up. Do you know how many of al quade's higher up members and terrorists have been captured or killed since the war started? That is what is going to make our country safe.

If you want to get pissed at someone, don't get pissed at Alex or me or Bush. Get pissed at Nader. He's the one that is going to help keep Bush in office.

[myshtern]

So does your generalization apply to vegetarian cars as well? That's all my signature says - it doesn't claim that I am vegetarian (which I'm not). Just goes to show how useful sterotypes and generalizations are...
:rolleyes:

Actually, it proves my generalized stereotype 100%. You are a liberal and in some form a vegetarian.

So you are saying there hasnt been a human rights movement because a group of prisoners was humiliated?
Or there wasnt a human rights movement because nobody found WMDs?

Israel said from day 1
All weapons have been moved to Syria

How the fuck would you ever know that the country is really in danger?
You think the gov't just releases all of its intelligence?

I am sure there have been and will be thousands of attacks and threats that the general public never hears about. Thats why we have the governemnt to defend us. Information isnt released to the public and let them vote over it or something for a reason.

[-=[Juztin]=-]

I think we should start publically beheading iraqi prisoners (randomly picked) and sending the image clips in wmv format to the al jazeera network. Just a little MAD policy only on a bit lesser scale.

I also believe we need to blow up villages/cities randomly and blame it on the declining number of oil barrels being delivered to our borders free of charge.

I also think that we should broadcast gay hemaphrodite porn on all their public channels 24x7x365 in an effort to demoralize them.

Alas, play William Hung's CD 24x7x365. And since it's curfew, shoot anyone who comes out of their homes grabbing their ears and slandering with .22 casings cause they cost less.

[SleeperZ]

And to think some thought I should be ducking for cover avoiding the black helicopters. All I do is pay attention to the news from many sources ( (hint: not from the adminstration in power), apply a little critical thinking, and draw my own conclusions. It's called participating in democracy.

There is no point in debating opinions, however there are many facts completely out in the open. Some of those facts are what I just stated at the beginning, and if you want to challenge them, fine, let's have a debate. We will not get anywhere by painting ideologies on each other and subsequently dismissing valid arguments.

Let's see you back up your assertion weapons were shipped to Syria. Let's hear you defend the change in policy regarding torture and the Geneva Convention. The investigations into Abu Graib are just winding up - we will see how how thin your defense of "A few dumb shit soldiers were torturing Iraqis" is. I see the defense slipping already as you concede that some prisoners were killed.

Shit, just try to back up your assertion that the "media" is "liberal".

So flame away. But if you want a response, let's discuss the issues reasonably.

[ricewizard]

man what a bunch of long winded pussy's, if a guy that protested the war, threw his medals back , voted against protecting the flag, cheats on his wife, and told everyone he disclaimed being a u.s. citizen , is someone you would vote for then in MYopinion your a pussy and should be shipped to the middle east to try and convince some towell head you hate the u.s. also . anyways what a bunch of new york/california PUSSY'S

[ricewizard]

if only the democratic convention was held here.........

[ryanman]

uh oh

[V8SpankR]

I just think we jumped into war a little hastily but Bush wants to get his oil buddys the oil contracts as soon as he can.

I thought we were looking for WOMD;if we'd found some I might be a little less bitter about all the US lives wasted and many more injured persons who's lives have been severly altered.

[THRICE]

Our terrorists, are their freedom fighters. Our freedom fighters, are their terrorists.

Politics is such a stupid, pointless, neverending debate. Everyone has their own opinions. Instead of questioning their point of view, demeaning their character, getting upset and angry because someone views life differently than *gasp, oh my god* YOU, meanwhile you're arguing like children (which we have all been guilty of, including I), how about you just respect eachother? Or maybe that is just too much to ask from foolish opinionated people in today's society.

[stu]

Myshtern is a flame-war monger.

[myshtern]

Myshtern is a flame-war monger.
:ring:
How bout a pile of flaming shit on you :cheers:

Ok back to sleeperZ:

Regarding Syria. I think Irael is America's best or second best ally (UK) and it is in their interest more than anybody else's to stop terrorism. From the beginning, they have been claiming that all WMDs have been shipped to Syria. They cant really do anything about it because if they start a war with syria then all the surround islamic nations will wage a war with israel just because they can. They fight as one, because they are one (palestine) though they claim they have no country; But that is besides the point. I looked it up real quick on google just to show you some reports.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/wirq25.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html
http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=670123

Abu Ghraib:
According to Article 4 of the third Convention, a POW is defined in part as " having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance . . . of carrying arms openly . . . of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war."

Terrorists do not wear uniforms. Urban warfar is not in accordance with the laws and customs of war. Therefor any terrorist prisoned, is not a POW. The Geneva Conventions only apply POWs.

Ok, but lets just say hypothetically that President Bush himself violated the conventions. I do not believe public beheadings are following the geneva conventions.

The Geneva Conventions, like most treaties, structure legal relationships between Nation States, not between Nation States and private interest groups and non-state actors, such as Al-Queda.

BTW this isnt officially a war, and even what was the unofficialy, official "war" ended long ago. Therefor, these guys arent even unofficial POWs.

As far as the media being liberal; I guess you could say that is an opinion. But a small example, the New York times ran the Abu Ghraib story front page for 28 days in a row, only interrupted for a few days by the death of Ronald Raegan, then they did it for another 3 days I think. When you run one story front page for pretty much an entire month, you have to have some sort of agenda. But that is just one example.

[myshtern]

So I guess you have to debate my FACTS now sleeperZ?

[exciv2000]

what the fuck is going on in here :D

[THRICE]

Okay, so you wrote a long paragraph backing up your point, now I bet I can guess what sleeperz is going to do.

This backs up my FACTS of how politics is a dumb debate. :)

[myshtern]

Thrice you are right, but for the sake of debate, shut up. :)

[THRICE]

Wish granted.

[exciv2000]

here you go: http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/

[myshtern]

here you go: http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.c om/

That was a waste of time...

[Ric3 Tr077]

what a bunch of new york/california PUSSY'S

You are what you look like I guess.

[ricewizard]

You are what you look like I guess.
is it rice troll or gravy troll you kerry/ clinton dick sucker.......oh wait thats not gravy maybe it's..... ;NutKick; cum troll......

[myshtern]

he is just a troll...

where is sleeperZ? common d00d

[-=[Juztin]=-]

whatever happend to bush's policy of just bombing the shit outta stuff. Hell when he first came into office we bombed the hell outta kosovo. They didn't even do anything to us at the time (that I can recall), we got public beheadings of our ppl, etc.. and not one stone thrown?

[-=[Juztin]=-]

I agree that now that we started playing with terrorists in the mainstream, we cannot stop. Kerry's position would probably have him pulling out all troops, granted that seems like a sane idea, it won't last long in terms of homeland security.

[myshtern]

=-']I agree that now that we started playing with terrorists in the mainstream, we cannot stop. Kerry's position would probably have him pulling out all troops, granted that seems like a sane idea, it won't last long in terms of homeland security.
Though kerry's plan is not very clear to anyone, from what we understand right not is kerry wont change a thing in Iraq. He plans on keeping all troops there but wont say what he will change. He just plans on making it better somehow

[SleeperZ]

Though kerry's plan is not very clear to anyone, from what we understand right not is kerry wont change a thing in Iraq. He plans on keeping all troops there but wont say what he will change. He just plans on making it better somehow

I believe Kerry's plan is just like Bush's (or what now Bush is forced to do) and that is to keep troops in until Iraq can maintain security on their own. My opinion is Kerry will make a more sincere effort to involve the international community. Merely because he would come in with a clean slate, he and the US would have a little more credibilty towards an honest transition.

And patience myshtern, I have not yet read your "facts".

[Robie]

My opinion is Kerry will make a more sincere effort to involve the international community.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You are kidding, right?

And when you say you are reading the "Facts", don't you mean that you are going to choose to not believe them, put a liberal twist so that you can discount them as "War mongering" in a stereotypical manner to support your own "Bush is a bad, bad man" propaganda crusade on this forum?

Whatever. . . :rolleyes:

Robie
"You mean you'll put down your rock, and I'll put down my sword and we'll try and kill each other like civilized people?" - Wesley "The Princess Bride"

[SleeperZ]

OK, the WMDs in Syria connection was postulated in January. The most credible source IMHO is David Kay, who said this (I added the emphasis):

David Kay, the former head of the coalition's hunt for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, yesterday claimed that part of Saddam Hussein's secret weapons programme was hidden in Syria.

In an exclusive interview with The Telegraph, Dr Kay, who last week resigned as head of the Iraq Survey Group, said that he had uncovered evidence that unspecified materials had been moved to Syria shortly before last year's war to overthrow Saddam.

"We are not talking about a large stockpile of weapons," he said. "But we know from some of the interrogations of former Iraqi officials that a lot of material went to Syria before the war, including some components of Saddam's WMD programme. Precisely what went to Syria, and what has happened to it, is a major issue that needs to be resolved."

As far as I can find, this investigation went nowhere; nothing further has been uncovered, especially any evidence. And if the evidence did exist, Bushy and co would be the first and loudest mouth announcing it, as they are under incredible pressure to justify the war, n'est pas?

Forgive me my doubts -- it sounds pretty sketchy, however I will grant you the possibilty Syria received some materials. As for the WMD ready to strike at the US, bullshit. I believe all that stuff was pretty much taken care of from Gulf War I.

[ryanman]

Kerry is a pussy. Go Bush!!!!

[myshtern]

OK, the WMDs in Syria connection was postulated in January. The most credible source IMHO is David Kay, who said this (I added the emphasis):

WTF are you talking about? The most credible source is the Israeli government. They said this right when the Iraq war began. I just didnt bother looking for more quotes.

I told you why there is no more evidence, because Israel cannot do it by itself and Bush cant do it because of liberals in America. Otherwise, Syria would have been long demolished by both countries + a few others.

Okay, so you said something about syria, but what about the other stuff.

Do you finally agree with me that the abu ghraib stuff is worthless shit?

How bout liberal media? Since abu ghraib is worthless shit and most educated people know this, why would The New York Times put in the front page for a month?

You just decided you would forget all the other stupid shit you were babbling about on page 1? :rolleyes:

I think you should change the title of this thread to:
"Myshtern took me to school today."

About your kerry comment; America should only support its true allies, UK, Isreal, and a few others, not the international community.

Are you aware that you are voting for the American president, not the internation community president?
The president should make decisions based on what is best for America, not France or the UN.

[myshtern]

And why does it take you so long to respond now?

[STIBungy]

STFU. Some people have lives rather than sit in front of the computer waiting for someone to respond.

And why does it take you so long to respond now?

[HONDA GHANDI]

STFU. Some people have lives rather than sit in front of the computer waiting for someone to respond.


Like you and me right now? :D

[STIBungy]

Ummm, no. I'm like doing more important things. :p

Like you and me right now? :D

[Weston-work]

Ummm, no. I'm like doing more important things. :p

More important things, hahahah... we all know you get multiple pr0n channels. :rofl:

[STIBungy]

That is more important, right? But alas, the satellite usage is no more. :(

More important things, hahahah... we all know you get multiple pr0n channels. :rofl:

[myshtern]

Looking at hung's post count I can see that NO, you dont have anything better to do and havent for the last 3 years

;)

He used to respond much faster until I posted some FACTS

[STIBungy]

My post count is low compared to the likes of many other whores on here.

[LeonZ]

What are you talking about? A few months ago you had like 600 posts. Now you have more than me.

[STIBungy]

Shut up, Commie.

What are you talking about? A few months ago you have like 600 posts. Now you have more than me.

[David]

yea, you are posting WAY more than me...I had more posts than you at one point

[LeonZ]

He bought a faster car so that he could get home faster to wh0r3 HAI.

[STIBungy]

You have 7.62 posts per day. No wonder you have a diaper rash. You spend too much time wh0ring when you should change yourself more often. :fu:

yea, you are posting WAY more than me...I had more posts than you at one point

[Bedlam]

You ALL whore too much..and this thread is still fucking gay. Great. :)

-Bedlam

[-=[Juztin]=-]

Everytime you kill a terrorist... George W. Bush get's one more vote!

[ricewizard]

He bought a faster car so that he could get home faster to wh0r3 HAI.
w.t.f. is the bandwagoner for dick...... bush has whole heartly back this country his whole life. what about kerry you i'll informed liberal freak.....
get to know your fuck face before you make him something he is NOT

[myshtern]

yeah i dont know about leo's new sig

[myshtern]

is sleeperZ sleeping?

[rmcdaniels]

Wow, this is the longest I've seen sleeperZ take to respond, and he's not even responding to half of the points raised. Could all of us rabid conservatives be breaking him down?

[myshtern]

Wow, this is the longest I've seen sleeperZ take to respond, and he's not even responding to half of the points raised. Could all of us rabid conservatives be breaking him down?
He cant handle the truth

[David]

john kerry had a cool hair cut in the 70's and he still does today

Go John Kerry Go!

[-=[Juztin]=-]

I like bush!!!

[Dustin]

A trimmed Bush is better than a Hairy Kerry... :cheers:

[STIBungy]

I'm sure you'd like to be either one's intern huh.

A trimmed Bush is better than a Hairy Kerry... :cheers:

[SleeperZ]

WTF are you talking about? The most credible source is the Israeli government. They said this right when the Iraq war began. I just didnt bother looking for more quotes.

I told you why there is no more evidence, because Israel cannot do it by itself and Bush cant do it because of liberals in America. Otherwise, Syria would have been long demolished by both countries + a few others.

Okay, so you said something about syria, but what about the other stuff.

Do you finally agree with me that the abu ghraib stuff is worthless shit?

How bout liberal media? Since abu ghraib is worthless shit and most educated people know this, why would The New York Times put in the front page for a month?

You just decided you would forget all the other stupid shit you were babbling about on page 1? :rolleyes:

I think you should change the title of this thread to:
"Myshtern took me to school today."

About your kerry comment; America should only support its true allies, UK, Isreal, and a few others, not the international community.

Are you aware that you are voting for the American president, not the internation community president?
The president should make decisions based on what is best for America, not France or the UN.

No, I believe the reason the Syria link hasn't borne out is there is no solid evidence. You know damn well if Bush had anything to bear out his claims he'd publish it on every news outlet he could. I did bother looking for more stuff and I can't find it, so if you do, put it up.

Regarding Abu Graib: Both Bush and Rumsfled stated the US would observe the Geneva Conventions in Iraq, and I will source that if you want me to (but it's true, I have a life outside post-whoring on HAI). So the fact is we did not observe the conventions - Rumsfled has admitted to the secret detention of a terrorist suspect, and the official reports and photos bear out the rest of my conclusion. So what if the insurgents and the terrorists don't wear uniforms? If this country was invaded and wiped out the government and the military command - would you wear a uniform and follow "civilized" rules of combat? Fuck no. I'd personally do whatever I could to repel the assholes. So what the opposition in Iraq is doing is expected, but as the supposedly "good guys", we have standards to live by or we have no business there. And that's MY opinion. Torture and cruelty on their part do not justify the same behavior in response.

The "liberal media" crap, which you stated as your opinion, was discussed in earlier threads. The mainstream media is corporate-controlled, and they tend to report the sensational, and generally try to compete for the general public's taste. So if there is a liberal bend to the news, that's because the general public leans that way. Personally I thought the media was revolting the way they jumped on the pre-war bandwagon, and subsequently showed only stories that favored the "good" stuff about the war. That was not a "liberal" viewpoint in the least.

Yeah, you schooled me. :rolleyes:

[rmcdaniels]

w.t.f. is the bandwagoner for dick...... bush has whole heartly back this country his whole life. what about kerry you i'll informed liberal freak.....
get to know your fuck face before you make him something he is NOT

Also remember the time periods of their service. Kerry volunteered for military service in '66, at a time when the war had excellent support, essentially all the men in his Yale class volunteered. Bush volunteered in '68, well after the country realized that Vietnam was a clusterfuck, essentially nobody else from his Yale class volunteered, they were all protesting the war. Of course he got a cushy Guard assignment, but that's the way it goes. My brother owed eight years to the Army in return for his scholarship, so he requested Guard duty after he graduated and got it (and my dad has no political connections). It was pretty skate, but he didn't do anything unethical, he just saw a sweet assignment and asked for it. As far as working the system to stay out of harms way goes, I think Kerry is right up there with Bush, read this:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp

I think it looks like John really worked the "three Purple Hearts and you can go home" rule. If you look at the military records from Kerry's Web site, they publish the summaries of his Gold and Bronze stars, but don't give the background information for his Purple Hearts, not surprising since two of them required nothing more than a bandage and he was back on the boat on patrol with no missed time. The third one did take him out of commission for two days, but it still wasn't that serious.

As far as military records go, I'd rate them equally, both did their service as minimally as they could honorably do it.

If you want to read about famous war heroes, check out Eddie Albert, Bob Dole, Jimmy Stewart, Alvin York, Audie Murphy, or if you want to read about real military valor just go to:

http://www.army.mil/cmh/Moh1.htm

P.S. - The asterisk by most of the names means they didn't live through the action they were cited for. Check out Troy McGill from WW2, that was one badass motherfucker, I'd definitely want him on my side in a fight.

[HondasTrail]

Everytime Sleeper puts up a post like this a flame war arises.

[rmcdaniels]

Everytime Sleeper puts up a post like this a flame war arises.

I thought that was the purpose of sleeperZ's posts? Jump on in, take a swing, we all just keep bouncing back for more like those blow up clowns with the weight in the bottom!

[ryanman]

Kerry is a fucking homo, plain and simple. If he gets elected (which he won't), it'll be just like having a woman president, we'd all be fucked.

[myshtern]

No, I believe the reason the Syria link hasn't borne out is there is no solid evidence. You know damn well if Bush had anything to bear out his claims he'd publish it on every news outlet he could. I did bother looking for more stuff and I can't find it, so if you do, put it up.

Regarding Abu Graib: Both Bush and Rumsfled stated the US would observe the Geneva Conventions in Iraq, and I will source that if you want me to (but it's true, I have a life outside post-whoring on HAI). So the fact is we did not observe the conventions - Rumsfled has admitted to the secret detention of a terrorist suspect, and the official reports and photos bear out the rest of my conclusion. So what if the insurgents and the terrorists don't wear uniforms? If this country was invaded and wiped out the government and the military command - would you wear a uniform and follow "civilized" rules of combat? Fuck no. I'd personally do whatever I could to repel the assholes. So what the opposition in Iraq is doing is expected, but as the supposedly "good guys", we have standards to live by or we have no business there. And that's MY opinion. Torture and cruelty on their part do not justify the same behavior in response.

The "liberal media" crap, which you stated as your opinion, was discussed in earlier threads. The mainstream media is corporate-controlled, and they tend to report the sensational, and generally try to compete for the general public's taste. So if there is a liberal bend to the news, that's because the general public leans that way. Personally I thought the media was revolting the way they jumped on the pre-war bandwagon, and subsequently showed only stories that favored the "good" stuff about the war. That was not a "liberal" viewpoint in the least.

Yeah, you schooled me. :rolleyes:
Ok, now it seems like you are presenting opinions

Israel doesnt just make claims for the hell of it. Just as I said, it is in their best interest to deal with syria therefor they would not be lying to you. Bush cannot do anything because he cannot recreate the image of a war monger that liberals made. Basically, you have no clue about syria and Israel so it sounds like you are going out of your ass.

So you're saying even thought the geneva conventions were not violated, someone broke some law or something like that. In fact, you basically justify the actions of the terrorists.
If this country was invaded and wiped out the government and the military command - would you wear a uniform and follow "civilized" rules of combat? Fuck no.

What is wrong with secret detention centers? If thats the way things need to be done, then their is obviously a reason for it, so you are just hurting the cause.

Personally I thought the media was revolting the way they jumped on the pre-war bandwagon, and subsequently showed only stories that favored the "good" stuff about the war. That was not a "liberal" viewpoint in the least.
Thats because the liberal viewpoint was the same as Bush's. John Kerry is a prime example.

I thought this thread was going to be about facts?

[ryanman]

it is

[NASCAR ss71]

I agree with ryanman.

[myshtern]

Where is sleeperZ?
He started this thread and now he wont even respond

[STIBungy]

He was at club clash. Maybe you should go sometime and you can have a face to face debate.

[myshtern]

I dont have a car to race and he doesnt go to any of the meets. I dont really care, he just called me out and now he wont talk.

[SleeperZ]

I dont have a car to race and he doesnt go to any of the meets. I dont really care, he just called me out and now he wont talk.

Oh please, you are just whining now.

I'm not sure what your point is with Israel. Regardless of their intelligence capability, if anything of significance was actually in Syria, that case would be made. Period. The fact of the matter is, there were no WMD threats. Whatever ancient weapons Saddaam had, they were destroyed or hidden, and in either case they couldn't be used against us. Either Bushie ignored the good intelligence he had, or he was fooled by Chalabi - neither possibility looks good for him.

And make your point regarding the Geneva conventions - you obviously weren't satisfied with my first response. The administration said publically they apply in Iraq, and they didn't observe them. Read my lips - we DID NOT observe them in Iraq. It is not up to the invaded country to observe any particular rules, especially since their government and military are dismantled -- that does not release us from our obligation to observe treaties and international laws to which WE ARE BOUND. What's hard to understand?

[myshtern]

I'm not sure what your point is with Israel. Regardless of their intelligence capability, if anything of significance was actually in Syria, that case would be made. Period. The fact of the matter is, there were no WMD threats. Whatever ancient weapons Saddaam had, they were destroyed or hidden, and in either case they couldn't be used against us. Either Bushie ignored the good intelligence he had, or he was fooled by Chalabi - neither possibility looks good for him.

So in other words, you just dont know what happened and it is bush's fault for everything. Either way, Kerry said how good the evidence was and that he supported Bush, sooo your candidate is not much better.


And make your point regarding the Geneva conventions - you obviously weren't satisfied with my first response. The administration said publically they apply in Iraq, and they didn't observe them. Read my lips - we DID NOT observe them in Iraq. It is not up to the invaded country to observe any particular rules, especially since their government and military are dismantled -- that does not release us from our obligation to observe treaties and international laws to which WE ARE BOUND. What's hard to understand?
I never heard the administration say that.
Read my lips - we did not violate any treaties or international laws
whats hard to understand. I explained to you why they were not violated. You can argue anything, but I gave 100% proof that they were not violated.

[rmcdaniels]

or he was fooled by Chalabi

What a walking pile of shit that guy is. I've been reading more about him and he's nothing more than a con man. Between him fabricating "intel" for the CIA and Saddam lying to all his neighbors and his internal people about the status of his WMD program, I can see why we thought it was more than it was. I still don't think it was a Bush conspiracy, but given the evident CIA failure, I think the CIA director should resign, oh wait, he did.

[myshtern]

well its like we are talking to teddy kennedy himself, its just bush's fault no matter what

[SleeperZ]

Instead of saying "I never heard the admininstration say that", how about saying, show your source that proves the adminstation said that?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/iraq/2001953514_prisoners11.html

(It's called Google, your friend and mine)

Now I suppose you are going to tell me Bush wasn't the one who invaded Iraq, and he's not responsible? Even though I don't like him, he is the commander in chief.

What makes you think we didn't violate any international laws? It's not obvious to you that letting dogs attack prisoners, killing prisoners in our custody during interrogation, keeping secret prisoners from the scrutiny of international observers are all violations of international law? You can prove otherwise? Stop talking out of your ass and prove it then.

I'm not going to argue with you, rmcdaniels, Chalabi was a walking pile of shit. And judging by his closeness to the adminstration, he really pulled one over on all of us. And to think Bush trusted him, what an idiot. ;NutKick;