Hows my setup sound

[David]

I just wanted to run my setup by everybody and hear what everybody thought and if I bought some junk part or if there is something I should know about a certain part.

car - 95 Honda Civic EX (stock)

t3/t4 .48 60 trim turbo
maxrev manifold
tial wastegate w/ .5 bar spring
Generic Bov (like DSM, came off a skyline or something like that)
2 1/2" downpipe to stock exhaust
VAFC
5" Johny race car FMIC
JC Whitney Charge Piping
ATP Turbo clamps and couplings
Fast-Turbo Oil Lines
DSM Injectors
Honda Resistor Box
Autometer EGT and Boost gauge
Autometer Pillar Pod
K&N Air Filter

Getting Dump Tube soon

Hows it sound, good or bad feedback welcome :)

[stu]

LOL, it sounds nearly identical to my setup. That turbo may be a tad laggy for your motor though. :)

[David]

yea, kind of wish I had just a t3, but ill make due

when does it spool up on your car?

[stu]

Full boost just after 4k rpm. However, my turbo to manifold gasket has already blown out and bolts have already started to fall out, so I don't know if that was an issue the whole time or what. I guess we'll see once I get it all fixed. I really hope it was causing me extra lag because I already want to be faster. ;)

[David]

that was what? 5 days :D

where did you get your gasket at? How is your Tial gasket doing? Im debating if I should use one or not, I hear they suck

[stu]

Tial gasket? For the Wastegate? I don't remember if we used one or not. I'll have to check it for you. I got the gasket that broke at TEC in Golden. I don't even remember how much it was.

P.S. 14.00's was SO last Friday. :rolleyes:

[David]

I got my turbo -> manifold gasket at atpturbo.com, it feels high quality might check it out.

whats next then stu? forged internals? Banana Mod?

[Kwando]

how much did it cost you guys to piece together a turbo kit? sounds like a fun project. this maybe a stupid question but how do you know if everything bolts up together?

if in the future i wanted to build up a turbo kit for the S2000 what would i need that is specific for the S2000 only? Just the exhaust manifold?

sorry if these are stupid question but i know nothing about doing this kind of stuff. sounds like something that is fun and the payoff is even more enjoyable.

[David]

I dont really like to think about how much its cost me :D but i'd say around $2000.

only things that really bolt up are the wastegate, turbo and manifold. everything else is held on by clamps, duct tape, JB weld, or get a flange and weld that on.

[rmcdaniels]

Full boost just after 4k rpm. However, my turbo to manifold gasket has already blown out and bolts have already started to fall out, so I don't know if that was an issue the whole time or what. I guess we'll see once I get it all fixed. I really hope it was causing me extra lag because I already want to be faster. ;)


Shit, that's when mine spools up. This is pissing me off. BTW, my gasket did the same thing the first time, the bolts came off completely and the whole thing fell down and rested on my lower strut brace until I got home, get the metal one from ATP.

[rmcdaniels]

that was what? 5 days :D

where did you get your gasket at? How is your Tial gasket doing? Im debating if I should use one or not, I hear they suck


The Tial gasket sucks, mine lasted a day before it completely disintegrated. Get the Turbonetics waste gate gasket, it has a solid metal sealing ring and mine is holding up well.

[MKIII-Shoopra]

Eh, Sweeeet.... Yep 1 more Post for me... How can you drive a car that spools at 4k my car spools at 3 at it pisses me off how much lag there is..

[Mario]

My turbo setup is just shy over $1500 for everything I need.

I should have it up in a couple weeks MAX guys, sucks it's taken me so long. Some forgotten bills came in the way. :(

[1998cc]

What are you going to do as far as fuel management goes?

[Mario]

Him or me? Anyways, I'll answer. I am either doing Uberdata or V-AFC with injectors. Not sure which one yet, both will be about the same price minus dyno tuning.

[marcrx5]

Mario, do you have vtec on your car? I thought it was just a b20 in those preludes. If you don't, and you want a s-afc instead, I have one I need to get rid of. I haven't even posted it yet. I'd go with the injectors and s-afc in my opinion. Doesn't the uberdata have a bad reputation? I'm not to familiar with it, but for a basic turbo system, s-afc's work great. If you do go with the uberdata, do you know someone that will tune it?
David, you setup sounds nice, but that lag is going to suck. You might try a t3, sacrifice some power for drivability. That's just me though.

[rmcdaniels]

Eh, Sweeeet.... Yep 1 more Post for me... How can you drive a car that spools at 4k my car spools at 3 at it pisses me off how much lag there is..

Small turbos spool up faster. If I got the right specs, your car has a small turbo that makes 232 HP out of a 3.0L I6. My car has a much bigger turbo that makes closer to 400 HP out of a 1.755L I4, and that doesn't even get into the difference in throttle response. My redline is also over 9K, so I have a lot of time at full boost, so don't feel too sorry for me, I will find a way to live with it. I was hoping that paying more for a ball bearing turbo would get me a faster spool up time, but apparently it didn't gain me much if Stu is hitting full boost at around 4K.

[David]

yea, lag will suck for sure, but the turbo is good to 400whp, so the engine has room to grow without getting a new turbo :D

[Mario]

Mario, do you have vtec on your car? I thought it was just a b20 in those preludes. If you don't, and you want a s-afc instead, I have one I need to get rid of. I haven't even posted it yet. I'd go with the injectors and s-afc in my opinion. Doesn't the uberdata have a bad reputation? I'm not to familiar with it, but for a basic turbo system, s-afc's work great. If you do go with the uberdata, do you know someone that will tune it?
David, you setup sounds nice, but that lag is going to suck. You might try a t3, sacrifice some power for drivability. That's just me though.

V-AFC has twice the adjustment points. Lotta people on H-T running Uberdata... it's exactly like Hondata, but free. And Tobi would tune it.

Yea, I am going with a T3... .42/.48, should be nice for this motor.

[stu]

Eh, Sweeeet.... Yep 1 more Post for me... How can you drive a car that spools at 4k my car spools at 3 at it pisses me off how much lag there is..

Because when it does spool it pulls so hard I can't even hold the wheel straight most of the time. That and I have a higher trap speed than every single person listed in the 13 second club on our site. I'll live.

P.S. It does suck having to shift at 6.5k, but at least it makes power all the way to redline now, it didn't before.

EDIT:

David: I am using a wastegate gasket, I don't know what brand it is, but it's not metal and it seems fine so far. Also, the turbo to manifold gasket is a metal one that I got from TEC. I'm not sure, but I would assume that it broke first, and then the bolts started to come loose second, because they were no longer being held tightly.

Roger: I think I remember you saying that you started to see positive manifold pressure before 3000rpm. I think mine is right around 3k, but not before. When you said that you got me all excited, but it seems to climb pretty slowly until right around 4 when it shoots up really fast.

Weston: You keep telling me that what my SAFC is reading is the wrong pressure (relatively) but I don't completely understand why that is so. My AFC is reading 53kPa, or .53 bar, which is 7.5psi, and my wastegate spring is a 7psi spring. Are you saying that the SAFC is calibrated at sea level, so it's still really reading .5 bar, which up here would be more than only 7psi relative to the 12 psi atmospheric pressure instead of the standard 14.7psi of sea level? I think that's what you are saying, so if that is the case, does anyone see a problem with upping the boost so my afc sees 10psi? Do you think that will be too much?

Lastly, I'm fairly positive that my boost guage is not accurate, because if it isn't, I'm really boosting 18psi. :rofl:

[rmcdaniels]

Roger: I think I remember you saying that you started to see positive manifold pressure before 3000rpm. I think mine is right around 3k, but not before. When you said that you got me all excited, but it seems to climb pretty slowly until right around 4 when it shoots up really fast.


I first see positive manifold pressure around 1800, then it climbs to full boost (currently 18 lbs at sea level) at just over 4000. I can hear it start to whine right off of idle.

[rmcdaniels]

Hmm, doing some reading on H-T, looking at spool up differences between VAFC hack setups and Hondata/Uberdata (H/U) setups. Apparently with H/U, timing retard is applied across the entire boost range at whatever blanket rate you specify (currently .75deg/lb for my Hondata setup), while the VAFC hack leaves timing advanced. The general concensus is that at lower boost pressures that much retard is too much, causing increased spool up times, this is probably especially true at my reduced static compression. I'll have to bounce this off my tuner and see what he thinks.

[stu]

I've got a BTM that only retards timing per boost, there is no way I'd be able to change that. Hmmm.

[Kwando]

I dont really like to think about how much its cost me :D but i'd say around $2000.

only things that really bolt up are the wastegate, turbo and manifold. everything else is held on by clamps, duct tape, JB weld, or get a flange and weld that on.


So if i buy a turbo and a manifold later will those two bolt right up?

[David]

most manifolds go to a t3 turbo, get one of those and you should be good to go. Then you have to get a downpipe that is either 4 bolt or 5 bolt to match up to the turbo, then you need a wastegate that matches your manifold, usually 38mm. If you want to build your own turbo kit I would start with the manifold or the turbo, because a lot of decisions you make are based on those two things. Here is the list I used to keep track of everything I needed/bought no particular order, might help you out:

1. Turbo
2. Manifold
3. Wastegate
4. Bov
5. Bov flange
6. Downpipe
7. VAFC
8. FMIC
9. Charge Pipe
10. Clamps
11. Couplings
12. Oil Return Flange
13. Oil return line
14. Oil Feed Line
15. Oil block adapter
16. Injectors
17. Resistor Box
18. Gauges
19. Pillar Pod
20. Downpipe Bolts
21. Manifold Bolts
22. Dump Tube
23. Turbo Gasket
24. Air Filter

[rmcdaniels]

I've got a BTM that only retards timing per boost, there is no way I'd be able to change that. Hmmm.


What do you have the BTM set at?

I called my tuner and he said to check my BOV and WG first to see if they are opening early. He's tuned several Civics with GT30R's and seems to think mine should be spooling up faster. He said they usually only take over 4000 to spool up if they have a really big turbine/compressor combo. I have the smallest combo available, and he's seen them spool up at just over 2000 with a small turbine and compressor.

[rmcdaniels]

So if i buy a turbo and a manifold later will those two bolt right up?

Yes, as long as you get a manifold with the same flange as your turbo.

It might also help to buy the manifold and downpipe from the same person, as the manifold will determine the design of the downpipe.

My manifold, turbo, and downpipe bolted right up. I took some measurements and got a custom exhaust pipe made ($80) to go from my downpipe to my cat-back, then that bolted right up. I cut/fit my IC piping from some mandrel bends and silicone couplers I got off of ebay/Jegs/ATP and I cut/fit my CAI from some mandrel bends and silicone couplers I got from ATP. I ran the oil and water lines myself, and tapped the oilpan myself.

You can get all of that stuff precut in a kit, but it costs more and is less exciting.

[stu]

I originally had the BTM set to 1.5* per psi, but that was WAY too much. Now I have it at just under .5*. I tried around .75* but it seemed like it would bog in the last 500rpm when I did that.

I guess the real difference between our turbos is when they start to spool. I feel like I'm missing out not even seeing positive manifold pressure until affer 3000rpm.

[rmcdaniels]

I guess the real difference between our turbos is when they start to spool. I feel like I'm missing out not even seeing positive manifold pressure until affer 3000rpm.

That's why my tuner was saying something else (BOV or WG) was broke, my turbo should spool up as fast as or faster than yours once it gets started, but it takes forever to get spooled up, even though it starts making boost really low. You are running more timing than me too, which should help you spool up faster, but my tuner said we could tune a "step-retard" see attachment) into my Hondata to make it even faster. I'll probably wait until I get the new exhaust onto it before I get it tuned again. Now I just need to get it on a dyno to get the BOV and WG checked out.

[stu]

Unfortunately, my turbo spooled the same before I even had a BOV on. Oh yeah, what size down pipe are you running? I'd like to upgrade to a 3" later, but I think I'd have to get a new front cross member first. The 2.5" I have in there now looks like it barely fits.

[rmcdaniels]

I've got a 2.5".