B20\vtec Head GAsket

[artyk]

Does anyone know which head gasket should be used for a b20\b16 Vtec conversion?

[STIBungy]

b20 gasket. B16 gasket would be too small to fit the B20 cylinders.

[artyk]

I have put on a B20 gasket but its leaking oil from the inlet side..

some web site suggests using honda bond another site suggested removing 2 of the 4 brass rings..

has any one had this type of issue before?

[12seccivy]

Does anyone know which head gasket should be used for a b20\b16 Vtec conversion?

I used the same gakset made for the block..b20/b18

[12seccivy]

I have put on a B20 gasket but its leaking oil from the inlet side..

some web site suggests using honda bond another site suggested removing 2 of the 4 brass rings..

has any one had this type of issue before?

What brass rings are you refering to?

I did use a little honda bond on all 4 corners of the head gasket.. no leaks showed up.

[STIBungy]

Did you plug the oil passage and run an external oil line?

I have put on a B20 gasket but its leaking oil from the inlet side..

some web site suggests using honda bond another site suggested removing 2 of the 4 brass rings..

has any one had this type of issue before?

[12seccivy]

Did you plug the oil passage and run an external oil line?
Better than that.. i had it welded over then shaved the head..

[STIBungy]

I was asking the other guy. I can tell you did your homework and extra credit even. No leak = A+

Better than that.. i had it welded over then shaved the head..

[12seccivy]

I was asking the other guy. I can tell you did your homework and extra credit even. No leak = A+

ohh.. My bad..
I wasnt reading the quotes..;Slap:

[artyk]

Thanks for the responces guys,

Theres 4 small rings on the gasket that hold it together..

check out http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/lsvtec/pics/lsheadgasket.jpg

I am at the end of a 3 week conversion and the car warmed up a few times and leaked a bit of oil. My machanic is trying to work out whether or not we have the right gasket (b20)...

He's saying that you shouldnt have to use honda bond on the head gasket..

How long have you had that gasket on for? But i can see that a liitle wouldnt hurt. I would prefer it not to leak without it then used the honda bond to stop it..

I am putting in a b20 that was built for me by a friend of mine. port and polish, toda cams, toda cams gears, toda springs and a lighten flywheel...
Its running a hondata s200...

[artyk]

Yeah the external line has been put in and the oil supply hole has been pugged..

[12seccivy]

Thanks for the responces guys,

Theres 4 small rings on the gasket that hold it together..

check out http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/lsvtec/pics/lsheadgasket.jpg

I am at the end of a 3 week conversion and the car warmed up a few times and leaked a bit of oil. My machanic is trying to work out whether or not we have the right gasket (b20)...

He's saying that you shouldnt have to use honda bond on the head gasket..

How long have you had that gasket on for? But i can see that a liitle wouldnt hurt. I would prefer it not to leak without it then used the honda bond to stop it..

I am putting in a b20 that was built for me by a friend of mine. port and polish, toda cams, toda cams gears, toda springs and a lighten flywheel...
Its running a hondata s200...

I dont know that it 's a good idea to dissect the factory gasket. but i used a little honda bond around all the oil return passages on upper and lower side of the hed gasket..Just in case.
this was my first time doing an ls vtec engine..I used the b20 rather than the b18
It was on there for 10k miles and never leaked oil..not a drop..
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding(sleeves,ss valves) for more boost.
hope this helps

[artyk]

I dont know that it 's a good idea to dissect the factory gasket. but i used a little honda bond around all the oil return passages on upper and lower side of the hed gasket..Just in case.
this was my first time doing an ls vtec engine..I used the b20 rather than the b18
It was on there for 10k miles and never leaked oil..not a drop..
I'm in the process of tearing down and rebuilding(sleeves,ss valves) for more boost.
hope this helps


Thanks for that. :)

I'll take this info away and let you know how it went..
I cant wait to get my car back......

[12seccivy]

Thanks for that. :)

I'll take this info away and let you know how it went..
I cant wait to get my car back......

No problem!
If there's anything I can do,Let me know..
Oh and keep me posted on your developments.. :cool:

[cherrybombcivic]

12sec1vy, i didnt know you drove a boosted ls/vtec, or am i reading this wrong?

[12seccivy]

12sec1vy, i didnt know you drove a boosted ls/vtec, or am i reading this wrong?

I was, but at the moment it has a B16 with jacksons s/c
It was a B20 vtec and the jacksons--
I'm currently rebuilding the B20 for more boost--maybe by the end of summer or so..
I'm not really a big fan of the 1.8 vtec conversion---I'd rather increase the displacement and use a B20..

[artyk]

OK heres the latest update to my delema..

the head is coming off as I write for the 4th time :(

1st time used a b20 cometic gasket - it leaked on idle after 20 min
machined the head

2nd time used the cometic gasket with hondabond - it leaked on idle after 40min

3rd time the 3 big oil holes in the head were professionally welded a little to add more "meat" to contact well with the block. machined it again
used a factory b20 gasket..
started it up 1hr into it was fine... 30min later was fine...
rough road tune for 20min and checked was fine.
again 40min road tune only revving to 4000rpm with vtec disabled (pulls nicely) and checked......
OIL!!! leaking from behind the intake manifold..
not a huge amount - but too much for me.. finished at 5am

4th time head is off again :( am having severe honda withdrawls...
am driving a little 1.5l carby lancer.. feels like the flinstones....
5 weeks on wed with out it!!

my machanic is going to pressure test the head against the gasket on some flat metal block and see where it leaks.. (ummm dont know the exact terminolgy here guys sorry)
apparently there was some oil around the bolts...

could it be a warped block??

guys any help here would be much appreciated..
I really thought the swap would be easy but its getting impossible...

[12seccivy]

OK heres the latest update to my delema..

the head is coming off as I write for the 4th time :(

1st time used a b20 cometic gasket - it leaked on idle after 20 min
machined the head

2nd time used the cometic gasket with hondabond - it leaked on idle after 40min

3rd time the 3 big oil holes in the head were professionally welded a little to add more "meat" to contact well with the block. machined it again
used a factory b20 gasket..
started it up 1hr into it was fine... 30min later was fine...
rough road tune for 20min and checked was fine.
again 40min road tune only revving to 4000rpm with vtec disabled (pulls nicely) and checked......
OIL!!! leaking from behind the intake manifold..
not a huge amount - but too much for me.. finished at 5am

4th time head is off again :( am having severe honda withdrawls...
am driving a little 1.5l carby lancer.. feels like the flinstones....
5 weeks on wed with out it!!

my machanic is going to pressure test the head against the gasket on some flat metal block and see where it leaks.. (ummm dont know the exact terminolgy here guys sorry)
apparently there was some oil around the bolts...

could it be a warped block??

guys any help here would be much appreciated..
I really thought the swap would be easy but its getting impossible...

I wonder if you are having gasket problems?
Is it leaking around the center(of the intake manifold)in the rear?
If so ,possibly the oring on the orifice might be damaged or missing(this would cause high pressure where it shouldnt be).
Did your mechanic check the block for warpage?
Have him use a straight edge and feeler gauges.Should be no more than.004" .

[artyk]

Thanx 12seccivy 4 the quick response

It looks like its leaking from the center of the block at the rear...
it could be leaking from the center of the intake...
I'll put your suggestion forward to him and get him to check it out.
He really doesnt want to take out the block at this stage till he finishes today tested the head.. If the head passes then he will check the block for warpage..

to me it really does feel like its got too much pressure for such a low amount of rpm.

I'll post an update this afternoon. Thanx so much for the info!! :)

cheers
ArtyK

[HONDA GHANDI]

Check the block deck for straightness. Also when you have the head off, replace the oil orifice o-ring and make sur ethat when you place it back into the block you do NOT push it all teh way down. Leave it protruding up high enough so that the head makes contackt with it and pushes it down when torqued. Also if it was hit with a grinder nad has rounded edges on top file it or sand it completly flat on top so it has a good surface contact with the head. Here is a pic so you know what I am talking about.

[artyk]

Heres the latest update,

the oil is coming out of the back of the block.
the oring looks ok and is flat. my machine said that this doesnt need to be replaced. does this just pop out of has it got some type of thread? also is it hard to take out?
The machinist inspected the block and found that it has an aggresive cut and not a polished smooth finish like the head so this could be causing the issue.
also he found that the block was warped by about 2-3 thou which i dont know it it would cause the leak but i'm sure wouldnt help..

let me know your thoughts - you think this will fix the problem??

[STIBungy]

Coming out the back? Is it on a certain side? Distributor side, maybe? Did you remember to plug the oil supply port on the head?

[artyk]

Coming out the back? Is it on a certain side? Distributor side, maybe? Did you remember to plug the oil supply port on the head?

the oil come out the back of the block roughly between the headgasket of cyl 2 and 3.
the head has had the dowel pin put in and the external oil supply line is in also.

[12seccivy]

Heres the latest update,

the oil is coming out of the back of the block.
the oring looks ok and is flat. my machine said that this doesnt need to be replaced. does this just pop out of has it got some type of thread? also is it hard to take out?
The machinist inspected the block and found that it has an aggresive cut and not a polished smooth finish like the head so this could be causing the issue.
also he found that the block was warped by about 2-3 thou which i dont know it it would cause the leak but i'm sure wouldnt help..

let me know your thoughts - you think this will fix the problem??

Yes the orifice just pops out-though it might take some effort to get it out..there are no threads on it.I would take it out and replace the o-ring like Ghandi says---It's a good idea.

Well, I don't think .002"-.003" is enough to cause leakage..It is within Honda specs.
Are you using new head bolts?.. I just seem to be running out of ideas at the moment..Is he using the same torque specs for a DOHC Vtec head bolts?
Seems like you have an unusal case here and details need to be sought out and checked over..
Perhaps the mechanic might need to run some dye in the oil(after reassemby again)and use a black lamp to isolate where the leak is originating from?
Other than that, I seem to have no other ideas..Sorry!

[HONDA GHANDI]

what he ^ said.

[12seccivy]

what he ^ said.
I was hoping you had a few more ideas up your sleeve, but I guess we helped him about as much as possible..

[HONDA GHANDI]

Without seeing the car for myslef I got nothing. Dye and black light would be my next step too.

[artyk]

ohhh no.. i sense i am in trouble...
first of all you guys have been such a big help.
i owe you all a big THANKS :)

I have put all your suggestions and recomendations to my mechanic..

the head bolts are ARP ones which came with the block.
the block was re built by a friend and has done 500KMs and a 12.8 quarter in a civic.
So i haven''t replaced them cause i am assuiming they are fine.
how many times can you use them?

002" 003" being withing honda specs doesnt make me feel too confident about whats being done now
the block was removed last night and is being stripped today to get the surface machined... i'm thinking this will help but wont be the solution... stressing. The head gets torqued down to about 75 - 80 thats what he told me..

I am emailing him a checklist... check it out
********************************
Is the head warped?
Is the Block warped?
are we using the right gasket?
are the bolt torqued down correctly?
is the torque down pattern correct?
can we replace the orifice o-ring on the block and leave it protruding with a good contact surface when the head is torqued down?
have the dowels been shortened by the amount milled off the head and block and more?
has the oil dowel and "O" ring in the head under the center cap been installed?
can we use new head bolts?
********************************
My mechanic is a very smart guy , but i guess you can tell that i am very frustrated with the situation to send him these questions....

thx guys i'll keep you posted....