block guard

[David]

What is your opinion on block guards? Im too broke to afford any sort of block sleeving, so this is really my only choice.

engine is a b16a2, power goals, 250-300 whp with forged internals.

[Pang]

a block guard isn't necessary for 250-300hp. Neither is forged internals. Get a comectic 3mm thicker headgasket you'll be good to go

[doctorstupid]

what's a block guard? i'm familiar with sleeving and was seriosuly considering ductile iron sleeves in my car, but then i realized it would cost me 400 in labor alone... 400 i don't have. so do elaborate on this bock guard contraption of which you speak.

and as pang said, i can't imagine any sort of block reinforcement or forged internals would be needed for 300hp. unless we're talking about a lawn mower ;)

[HONDA GHANDI]

Hondas have open deck engines so the sleeves begin to "walk" around at higher HP numbers. The gaurd keeps them in place and braces the upper 10 mm of the sleeve so it doesnt stretch and crack under boost.

On a side note, I think the headgasket route is more of a bandaid way to go. If you have the money for a build do it. The BG is easy to install and cheap if you already have the motor apart. Cheap insurance plus if you ever want to upgrade turbo or make more power its already there. The tune session will be much easier and more rewarding with good internals and a block gaurd. You will be safe to 400 with what you have listed provided you have a decent tuning device.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Heres a pic Dr.Stupid

[AFAsucks]

so wait...is there any point in using a block gaurd but not sleeves. it sounded like the BG only supported the sleeves. Does it help just on its own? it might be good for me to figure this out considering im about to buy a car with a block gaurd. it would be nice to know how much its helping because i plan on some damn high boost levels on track days.

[Mark_H]

FWIW I'm running a Blockguard and stock sleeves bored .20 over. I have no hesitation running 14lbs of boost and right around 400whp.
Mark

[HONDA GHANDI]

I dont think there is a way to measure how much it "helps"
If you want to sleeve a motor then by all means. But you should be planning on running 18-30 Psi to justify it. Here are the drawbacks to having sleeves versus installing a block gaurd:
Sleeves = extra weight. (almost 30 extra pounds per block)
Block gaurd = 2lbs

SLeeves = more heat in block, ductile cast iron sleeve transfers heat energy to water jacket slower holding more heat in, also crowds water jacket leaving less room for water to travel.
Block guard = stock water jackets so same volume of water. Slows water in block to pick up more heat. Doesnt hurt or help cooling.

Sleeves = $1200 and full teardown of block can take weeks
Block gaurd = $100 (less in some cases) takes 5 minutes to install with engine in car, cylinder head off.

Sleeves = good to 800+ HP
Block gaurd = holds stock sleeve to 400hp maybe more.

[David]

alright, guess I will do it. And raise my power goals:D Hey Tobi any recomendations on block guards? I was thinking of GE or AC

[AFAsucks]

well that sounds good to me too. i am planning on running 15 to 25 pounds of boost in my brother's car so the block gaurd should do well....thanks for the help. sorry bout cuttin in David...thought it was a good time to ask while the subject was up.

[HONDA GHANDI]

David, GE is good so is STR.

AFA: 25 psi will eventually warp teh stock sleeves even with a block gaurd. It wont hold. Basically anything over 18 psi you are at risk of damaging the stock sleeves. Especially if it is a street car and will be put through the paces of everyday driving at those boost levels.

Example, my frinds 4door civic, B18C1 with block gaurd and rev hard kit, it had a wastegate failure and over boosted to 22 psi and the sleeve split right down the middle the full length of the sleeve.

[AFAsucks]

hmmm alright well that would be bad. We would defintaely not push 25 psi for daily driving. That wouod be only for track day if we did do it, but thats good to know because i was thinking that the engine could handle that with the stock sleeves. I guess we wont even think about it for the track either. About how many pounds of boost would it take to get a B18b1 with 9:1 compression and 81.5 mm bore to 400 hp? Im thinking that will be our goal now that i know the stock sleeves probably can't handle any more than that. tell me if you need to know more about what the car has done to it because its a lot to type.

[STIBungy]

Friend of mine had a B18C1 with 9.5:1 pistons. Ran 15 psi and produces 324hp. It lasted about 2 months tho. Cracked sleeve was the culprit.

[David]

hmmm alright well that would be bad. We would defintaely not push 25 psi for daily driving. That wouod be only for track day if we did do it, but thats good to know because i was thinking that the engine could handle that with the stock sleeves. I guess we wont even think about it for the track either. About how many pounds of boost would it take to get a B18b1 with 9:1 compression and 81.5 mm bore to 400 hp? Im thinking that will be our goal now that i know the stock sleeves probably can't handle any more than that. tell me if you need to know more about what the car has done to it because its a lot to type.
Dont set PSI goals, because it all depends on the turbo...25 PSI on a SC61 would blow the head off the block, while a t3 probably couldn't even reach 25 PSI.

Set horse power goals instead, thats all you want and its universal. The stock sleeves are good to about 400whp, 500 is really pushing it but it has been done before.

dont mean to be hatefull, just want to set you straight:)

[AFAsucks]

no problem...well our goal would be around 400hp...its a T3/T4 turbo so i didnt expect it would make 25 with that one, but there was always the option of upgrading later. well if 400 is safe with the block gaurd then that will be our goal...we might set lower just to be safe...thanks

[David]

no problem...well our goal would be around 400hp...its a T3/T4 turbo so i didnt expect it would make 25 with that one, but there was always the option of upgrading later. well if 400 is safe with the block gaurd then that will be our goal...we might set lower just to be safe...thanks
Just make you are tuned with a standalone (Hondata) and you should be good. Above all dont try something like that with an FMU or SAFC.

[Kellly]

blockguards also block coolant from flowing around the top of the clyinder (where the burning of the fuel/air is, and heat is generated)
this can lead to detonating.
the newer designs are alot better, but i would save the $100 and put that money towards tuning.
your sleeves will hold 400 whp with a good tune.

[AFAsucks]

Just make you are tuned with a standalone (Hondata) and you should be good. Above all dont try something like that with an FMU or SAFC.
We are using a hondata 2b.

[Cheio]

blockguards also block coolant from flowing around the top of the clyinder (where the burning of the fuel/air is, and heat is generated)
this can lead to detonating.
the newer designs are alot better, but i would save the $100 and put that money towards tuning.
your sleeves will hold 400 whp with a good tune.

Even with the new blockguards there's still hotspots where they are against the cylinders.

[David]

well I got my blockguard, first step in my b16 build up :) Hopefully it will go in easy and I wont have to file it down much

[powder311]

Don't you put em in the freezer or somthing and they shrink? I have no clue cuz a machine shop went inside my engine...

[highlife]

i know u guys are talking about BG but i want to know what head gasket are u guys using? how much boost does OEM head gasket hold with a t3/t4? on a B181

i was thinking about leaving my internal stock and tuned it with a standalone(hondata) or AEM EMS. how mmany HP or boost can a stock block handle?

i use to have a greddy 15g with 9lbs on a complete stock motor and i was great to me, nothing happen and it was fine for over a year.

[powder311]

i know u guys are talking about BG but i want to know what head gasket are u guys using? how much boost does OEM head gasket hold with a t3/t4? on a B181

i was thinking about leaving my internal stock and tuned it with a standalone(hondata) or AEM EMS. how mmany HP or boost can a stock block handle?

i use to have a greddy 15g with 9lbs on a complete stock motor and i was great to me, nothing happen and it was fine for over a year.
Hey man do you post on COSR? The green integra? If so thats nice man.. very similar to mine..

[highlife]

yea i post there. but the green teg is not mine, even though it is a nic car but i drive a civic.

can u help me with my question?

[powder311]

yea i post there. but the green teg is not mine, even though it is a nic car but i drive a civic.

can u help me with my question?
Sorry man i can't ... i send my car to the shop 'burnout:

[highlife]

its cool.
ill just boost 15lbs with stock internal and good tuning.

but thanks anyway

[ryanman]

its cool.
ill just boost 15lbs with stock internal and good tuning.


Err, on stock Honda internals? LOL. Is your boost gauge ok?

[highlife]

lol yea my gauge are ok. i was kidding about 15lbs. maybe 20lbs.
hahahaha

[Kellly]

the block guard (to be most effective, should sit down below the top edge of the sleeve ~ 1/4" or so. this will allow coolant to travel around the top edge of the sleeve.

as for you HG question, you can use a stock hg, no problem. on a friends motor we use a stock HG and hes running 20 psi on a t3/t4(b <--i think, maybe e).
i always look at the HG as fuse for the engine, i would rather blow a HG ($53) then rebuild a motor ($2700 so far)
hope this helps

[highlife]

the block guard (to be most effective, should sit down below the top edge of the sleeve ~ 1/4" or so. this will allow coolant to travel around the top edge of the sleeve.

as for you HG question, you can use a stock hg, no problem. on a friends motor we use a stock HG and hes running 20 psi on a t3/t4(b <--i think, maybe e).
i always look at the HG as fuse for the engine, i would rather blow a HG ($53) then rebuild a motor ($2700 so far)
hope this helps

HG??? what is short for?

i think ill get a block guard and after market internal.
hope to push over 300hp.

[stu]

HG = Head Gasket

[HONDA GHANDI]

head gasket.