Just when things were looking better for Microsoft

[DrJones]

Looks like they have declared war. Up untill recently I'd say Linux and M$ coexisted peacefully. There was some hatred on both sides, but now Microsoft is trying to burry Linux (didn't they learn about monopolies...). Check it out:


"InfoWorld reports that Microsoft is planning an "security assault on Linux" by hyping results of a commissioned study pointing to the number of security holes in Linux vs. Windows, the number of days it takes to fill the patches, and by raising questions as to the reliability of code submitted throught the OS process. I suppose if they focus very narrowly on one measurement of security, completely ignore script-level vulnerabilities, default settings vulnerabilities (such as root access for all users), and the demographics of the user population, as well as a zillion other things I'm not clever enough to think of off the top of my head, they may have a point. "



Microsoft's new wave of FUD has begun to arrive. This time it is courtesy of Bradley Tipp, Microsoft's UK national systems engineer, who spoke at the Microsoft IT Forum in Copenhagen. In this article from ZDNet UK, he is quoted as saying that 'Linux is great' and 'there are a lot of things we should learn from open source' but then is quick to point out that 'We haven't talked to a single user who has said they're using [open source] because it's better.' Another Microsoft employee was quoted as saying 'At least if Linux takes off, their viruses will propagate and we won't be seen as the bad guys any more.' I for one am happy to see that they are taking their new interest in security seriously, and I'm sure you all are too. Most interesting is the assertion that the decision by Red Hat to end support for its free distribution and Novell's aquisition of SUSE marks not only the death of free software, but actually is a validation of Microsoft's business model. Does anyone besides Microsoft see these events as the end of Free software?


So it's pretty obvious that verbally Microsoft is trying to put Linux under... however it gets much much worse. For those of you who know about this stuff, or visit /. you've probably heard of SCO. This is a corporation who claims that some of their code was illegally put into the Linux kernel. Thus they say that all linux users are breaking the law, and are trying to scare them into paying licensing fees for Linux to SCO. Well right now there is a big lawsuit with SCO vs IBM over this. The problem is that the Experts have said that what ever code might have been in the linux kernel has long since been removed, and worse yet is that SCO won't even release any details about their claim. They have provided no prof (or any code at all) that even begins to sugest this.

Well naturally this is going to turn into a giant legal battle that will determine the future of Linux. IBM has deep pockets, they can fight it. SCO doesn't, they can not. Well a little while ago Microsoft aledidly donated $50 million to SCO... I wonder why? Could it be to help their legal battle and kill the competition?


eWEEK has got a story up suggesting Microsoft may be behind yesterday's $50mil cash investment in SCO. 'As an investment firm, BayStar leads, creates and participates in a number of PIPEs (Private Investments in Public Equity). Many of these deals involve investment money from other companies, including Microsoft


I'm sure this all has nothing to do with Longhorn..... :rolleyes:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1356718,00.asp
http://www.vnunet.com/News/1147824

:mad:

[DrJones]

How about that.. looks like they are putting the funds to use:


"SCO has just, within the past hour, announced that they have fired back against IBM's legal broadside, with one of their own, filing subpoenas against several of the biggest names in Linux. SCO filed subpoenas with the U.S. District Court in Utah, targeting six different individuals or organizations. Those include Novell; Linus Torvalds, creator of the Linux kernel; Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation; Stewart Cohen, chief executive of the Open Source Development Labs; and John Horsley, general counsel of Transmeta."


http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5106450.html

[newt2]

Another Microsoft employee was quoted as saying 'At least if Linux takes off, their viruses will propagate and we won't be seen as the bad guys any more.'

Dude's got a point. The only reason you hear about so many vulnerabilities in Windows is because it's the dominant OS. I know for a fact that Linux, Solaris, HP UX, HP MPE and any number of other OS's have just as many patches.

[Brian]

I have patches for linux more often then my windows box. Linux is a great os, but both windows and linux have some things to learn from each other.

[exciv2000]

Dude's got a point. The only reason you hear about so many vulnerabilities in Windows is because it's the dominant OS. I know for a fact that Linux, Solaris, HP UX, HP MPE and any number of other OS's have just as many patches.
:werd:

I have patches for linux more often then my windows box. Linux is a great os, but both windows and linux have some things to learn from each other.
:werd:

My RH box was being updated CONSTANTLY. I had more patches in a week then MS had in a month it seems.

BTW, screw linux. FreeBSD is so much better.

[gjcivic]

isn't that what business is all about? Trying to take business from your competitors??

[DrJones]

Linux has a lot of patches, you'll find that most of them (ie almost all) are prememtive. Look through the version logs of ANY major Linux program. You'll find lots of:

"Fixed potential security exploit with..."

All software will have problems and bugs, Linux has a good track record of finding them before something goes wrong. With Microsoft the patch is created after there is a problem, not before. In the rare cases where Microsoft fixes them beforehand, they still get exploited because no one upgrades.

Personally I think lots of patches are a good thing. Software with lots of patches has a much rarer chance of getting exploited.

Plus there is another major point... if something breaks in Linux ANYONE (who knows the software) can fix it. If there is a sucurity problem found and the lead programmer is on vacation, it doesn't matter. Somone else WILL jump in and fix it. Then it will be imediatly made availible. With MS you have to wait for them to release the patch. They have to go through a long standard process before any software gets released. They have to have meetings and quality controll and all sorts of stuff.

Asside from that, I still think that these business practices are very wrong. They obviously didn't learn from their last little legal misshap.

Also SCO is far worse in this than MS is. How can you go to the legnths they have with all the acusations without showing a single line of code so people can verify that it was infact stolen. It's like me getting some kid thrown in jail for stealing my car without any evidence that it's missing. It's just wrong.

[DrJones]

BTW, screw linux. FreeBSD is so much better.


Please define better? If you mean better in the sense of cutting edge inovative software, then I agree. If you mean better in terms of security than I agree. If you mean better in terms of performance, then I don't necessarily agree (have to be more specific. As a server yes, desktop no)

"Linux is for people who hate Microsoft, *BSD is for people who love Unix"

That being said... why don't I use BSD more? Because I like to use my hardware. To me the gains from *BSD don't mean much if my graphics card doesn't work.

[exciv2000]

Plus there is another major point... if something breaks in Linux ANYONE (who knows the software) can fix it. If there is a sucurity problem found and the lead programmer is on vacation, it doesn't matter. Somone else WILL jump in and fix it. Then it will be imediatly made availible. With MS you have to wait for them to release the patch. They have to go through a long standard process before any software gets released. They have to have meetings and quality controll and all sorts of stuff.


Hahah, riiiight. Maybe in an all *nix environment, but rarely do companies go all *nix. I've been in the IT field long enough to know that not just anyone will jump in on *nix machines. I've also worked in it long enough and worked so closely with Microsoft Premier Support reps to know how quickly they can get a patch out. I know you're going to school, but I don't know how long or if you have worked in the IT field, but businesses work a LOT differently than your basic consumerism BS you read about through the media and on most "hip" and "wired" internet sites, on both sides of the OS fence.

My graphics card works fine in FreeBSD. I'm sure there is very little difference within XFree86 between *BSD and Linux.

[DrJones]

My graphics card works fine in FreeBSD. I'm sure there is very little difference within XFree86 between *BSD and Linux.

It's not a thing with X it's a thing with drivers. Vendors don't really support BSD (a lot are starting to support Linux). Therefore drivers don't exist unless people write them, which is hard unless the manufacture gives lots of details about the card/device.

Drivers are the bridge between the OS and hardware.

[newt2]

In the rare cases where Microsoft fixes them beforehand, they still get exploited because no one upgrades.

That's the case with most MS patches. Take the Blaster Worm for example. The Patch was out for a full two months before the virus showed up, it's just that nobody keeps their system up to date.

[Mr. NoSkills]

i think everyone has made good points so far.
what drjones said about a lot of the linux fixes are out before the problem is actually exploited is totally true, but at the same time, like newt2 said, look at how many people are using windows. another thing to think about is WHO is using these products. a lot of windows users are set on point and click software and are not what you would consider "hardcore" computer users so they are not going to be into the whole security scene and keep track of what's going on or even try to figure out what's going on. on the other hand most linux users are a little bit more into the whole computer thing and like to get into the OS and "get dirty" haha. i think that's why MS users have a lot more problems just because they are either lazy or just honestly don't know what to do, they just wait for microsoft to come out and tell them to "download this" or "upgrade this". back in the day there were no way for linux users to get these automatic updates like redhat does now but the systems were still being kept current because the users took the time to fix the shit.
oh, please notice i said MOST in both cases, so don't get pissed off.

[Bedlam]

I've been hearing a lot of scuttlebutt about this at work lately too..we are a M$ system builder, but they got kinda pissed at us when we started offering Lindows as an option. Its amazing how much shit they get away with just because of how much money they have, but if I was making the calls on these decisions...I'd prolly do the same thing M$ is..its all about the money.

-Bedlam

[SleeperZ]

isn't that what business is all about? Trying to take business from your competitors??

Of course, as long as you behave ethically and legally, something that seems to be foreign to MicroShaft.

[Mario]

The funny thing is, is that it maybe takes hours for a Linux patch to come out to fix something, rather than days like Microsoft. That's why there are more patches for Linux, because they fix things a lot faster than Microsoft.

You know what the funny thing is? Longhorn has... get this: new features. That's right folks, it has new features. Multiple desktops and a popup blocker in IE. Whoooooo! Cutting edge right there!

It's quite obvious than Linux' popularity has been increasing - there is more hardware support than ever, games are becoming easier to play on Linux with the help of WineX and native games as well, and the ease for a normal desktop user is at it's peak right now. There is absolutely tons of support for Linux, as well as software to fill most needs.

I've been using SuSE for about 2 months now... it's great. There is about 5 applications for each category (5 browsers, 5 FTP, 5 chat, 5 Word editors)... it's great flexibility. The only thing I was unable to do was my 3d animating (there is no PLE version of Maya available for Linux... but the Complete version is available for Linux) and play BF1942.