Need help with nitrous

[CSMsi311]

I have the chance to get a nitrous kit for a good price. It comes with basically everything. It can be run as a wet or direct port setup.. With the jrsc, i read i need to run a direct port, but i'd like to avoid tapping the jr intake manifold.

I was told of a product from Nitrous Express, that allows you to run a setup like direct port, but you put the nitrous jets on "spacers" that go between the fuel injectors and the manifold. Only pictures i found so far were on eBay. I didn't get much time to search longer. Anyone have any pictures? Or know if this is an acceptable method to spray?

I'm thinking of machining my own spacers once i get the idea down. I have access to a mill and lathe and if i'm lucky enough some aluminum stock.

jason

[exciv2000]

you don't need to run it as a DP, you can run it as a wet kit, but the fuel going through the rotors will eventually eat away at the enamel coating of the rotors. Just try not to spray it too much... I just spray at the track. FWIW, I'd recommend going up to 9-10 psi before spraying. There will always be cheap used nitrous kits.

[john]

Spray through the SC? Why would someone do that?

[CSMsi311]

why would i want to spray through the supercharger?
and why up the boost too?

I found some good pics of this setup. But I haven't found a pic of the inside bore.

Also learned that NOS has NOSzles. which is the same concept, but doesn't look like as good of a design

Anyone have experience with this NXL setup?

[john]

Spraying thru the charger can't be a good idea. Spray AFTER the charger. There's gotta be some plumbing between the SC outlet and the throttle body, no?

But then, I'm not an SC guy.

[CSMsi311]

normally you tap the intake manifold, but i don't like the idea of drilling into the mani.

so these "injector spacers" let you spray after the supercharger. and are more "bolt-on"

[exciv2000]

spraying through the supercharger gives it the intercooling abilities the roots style chargers are badly in need of. If you direct port it, you're only gaining the power from the nitrous, and not really intercooling the boost charge. Also, since nitrous is illegal to have connected on the street, let alone having the bottle turned "on", you'd be faster if you upped the boost, and more reliable. Nitrous can have some pretty damaging effects on a motor if not handled and tuned for correctly. Just ask John :)

[CSMsi311]

i still believe the nitrous will do the same amount of cooling if sprayed after the blower. cause it's still cooling the charge

[HONDA GHANDI]

Nitrous is coldest at the pressure drop so the closer the nozzle is to the intake valve the colder the air charge is. DP is the best way to introduce N20 to the intake charge.

[BluByU]

I vote up the boost. Hector's car was pretty quick with the Kamikaze header and 10 psi.

[WRX Harvey]

http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/NOS/NOSNS/NOSzle.htmlI think this is what you are looking for.

I shoot my wet kit in as close as possible while maintaining good cylinder distribution. The farther the path, the more places for puddling and the more thermal intercooling loss. If you have an intercooler it will even cause reverse intercooling as the air inside is cooler than outside. What is even scarier is that wet kits by nature shoot an explosive mixture into the system, imagine filling a 600+ cubic inch intercooler with a nice fuel/nitrous mixture, scary. That pertains to turbo/intercooled applications though.

I would call the guys at the holley/nos help line. Other than the long distance it is free, they know a lot, and have good stories about dummies.

[john]

Good reply, wrxharvey. Spraying before any type of forced induction seems "silly" to me...

When I was using nitrous I called Holley/NOS for some advice, and was told to put my single wet fogger within 12" of the throttle body. I put it IN the throttle body (http://jsalmi.com/nitrous/fogger/nosfogger2.jpg), about 1.5" from the plate.

[john]

DP? As in downpipe??

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
Nitrous is coldest at the pressure drop so the closer the nozzle is to the intake valve the colder the air charge is. DP is the best way to introduce N20 to the intake charge.

[john]

Spraying into the intake manifold is going to have a DRASTIC affect on the temperature of the intake charge, whether it's intercooled or not. Spraying into the SC seems like a waste to me.

But then again, as stated earlier, I'm a turbo guy and not an SC guy...

Originally posted by exciv2000
spraying through the supercharger gives it the intercooling abilities the roots style chargers are badly in need of. If you direct port it, you're only gaining the power from the nitrous, and not really intercooling the boost charge. Also, since nitrous is illegal to have connected on the street, let alone having the bottle turned "on", you'd be faster if you upped the boost, and more reliable. Nitrous can have some pretty damaging effects on a motor if not handled and tuned for correctly. Just ask John :)

[john]

Regarding a bad install/not using nitrous correctly.

http://jsalmi.com/kaboom

The only good thing to come out of it was the new motor, T66 and approx 736 crank HP.

http://www.to4r.com/members/johnsalmi.html

:D

[HONDA GHANDI]

Originally posted by john
DP? As in downpipe??


Direct port.

[Qwiksand]

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
Direct port.

Whatever, you know its double penetration ;)

[HONDA GHANDI]

Dangerous Poosay

[john]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[12seccivy]

DP? As in downpipe??

i believe they mean Direct Port.

[HONDA GHANDI]

i believe they mean Direct Port.


Ill be a monkeys uncle. How the hell are you?

[ryanman]

Your a monkey's uncle? WTF

[CSMsi311]

from what i was told off clubsi.com you can jet the NXL kit as low as 35

FWIW

[exciv2000]

you can jet a nos kit to 15, maybe lower.

[CSMsi311]

is that dp? i'm only interested in dp

[exciv2000]

I don't know. I don't care for direct port on JRSCs.

[HONDA GHANDI]

I don't know. I don't care for direct port on JRSCs.


Why not? Just personal prefference or bad experience or what?

[exciv2000]

personal preference.

Part of the preference I'll tell you stems from the fact that I didn't buy my JRSC to drill holes in it. I like to keep the resale value up as much as possible. Sure, you could get the nosZle system, but last time I checked those were going for around $800 for a kit or something stupid like that... nitrous is not supposed to be that expensive. Additionally, DPs are meant for shots of 75 and up, there's no way I plan on running that on a FI'd stock block. Sure you can jet it down, but then you're playing with jet sizes for 4 nozzles rather than just one.

There's other personal preferences too :)

[12seccivy]

Ill be a monkeys uncle. How the hell are you?

I'm doing pretty good. I'm back in town for another week.
congrats on the 12 Tobi!!!:Beer:

[exciv2000]

Nitrous is coldest at the pressure drop so the closer the nozzle is to the intake valve the colder the air charge is. DP is the best way to introduce N20 to the intake charge.

Just thinking about this... what you say is true.
However, we all know that when outside air temp is cold, you get a little more power because the oxygen is denser in the charge. My theory is that if you spray nitrous before the blower, you're cooling that air, increasing the density, AND you're also adding even more molecules of oxygen and nitrogen from the N2O shot. Therefore you're getting more air molecules going through the blower and being compressed in addition to the nitrous. As you can see, I'm considering the N2O molecules and the outside air molecules as two seperate things (even though in reality they aren't really that different).

So, when you do a DP (yes i'm talking about a double penetration =)) you get the reqular warm incoming air getting heated up more during compression, and then you cool it down with your DP right before it goes into the cylinders. I'm no physics whiz, quite far from it actually, but my theory is that you're not making the incoming air any more dense since it's already compressed, you're just adding the N2O molecules to a hot charge.

[ryanman]

congrats on the 12 Tobi!!!:Beer:
Sea Level But of course still a good time. :cool:

[CSMsi311]

i didn't buy my jrsc so i could spray through it and ruin the inside coating either.

I'm still waiting on getting a price on just the NXL nozzles or i may be machining my own for shits and giggles.

[HONDA GHANDI]

. My theory is that if you spray nitrous before the blower, you're cooling that air, increasing the density, AND you're also adding even more molecules of oxygen and nitrogen from the N2O shot. .


not true. Because N20 is a compressed gas in liquid form it takes up lots of volume when decompressed. This action takes up space and actually decreases airflow in an intake manifold by creating its own volume thus decreasing incoming air volume. If it is sprayed on the pressure side of the blower it will tend to take up less space because it is trying to crowd an already overcrowded area which is one of the reasons it atomizes so well in a positive pressure atmosphere. Does this make any sense to you? Theres a whole lot ore to it but I gave you the short version.

[exciv2000]

The Nitrous in and of itself is harmless, simply because it's chemically no different then the air the engine already breathes... well, there's more oxygen content, but it's not oxygen that eats the coating on the rotors, it's fuel. That's why a dry kit is better through the rotors than a wet kit.

[Bedlam]

I think I'm going to spray liquid oxygen into my del Sols engine..because its REALLY explosive...and it will do great things! Of course, its just my personal preference..and someone told me once over the internet that pure oxygen is a GREAT oxidizer! :)

-Bedlam