Installed Type R rear sway bar

[STIBungy]

Yay, I finally installed my Type R rear sway bar into the CX. I bought the bar like 1.5 years ago intending to put it on the GSR but never did.

Too bad it's raining right now, I'd like to go whip it around to see how it feels. Sure dont want to test it in the rain as I suspect it'll oversteer like crazy on wet pavement.

I just won a set of front GSR LCAs and front sway bar from Ebay so hopefully, that'll even balance out the car better with practically no body roll. W00t.

[stu]

Sweet, let us know how it goes.

[Cheio]

Nice. :) I love mine... didn't notice a huge difference, but it's still noticeable.

[Weston]

It makes a pretty big improvement for Integras if you like to take turns fast. I'd expect the same or better improvement for Civics. The car will be more stable in turns and there will be less tire squeeling. It also makes the car easier to rotate (ie less understeer).

Once you have the Type-R rear sway bar, the biggest thing holding the car back will be the soft rear springs... the softness is for comfort and safety. It causes weight to easily transfer to the rear under acceleration (watch your rear view mirror and you can see how much the rear of the car squats when you floor it). That helps keep the rear end from sliding out on you, but it takes weight off of the front tires which causes understeer. Once you get a suspension with stiffer rear springs and/or shocks, the Type-R bar will be even more useful. My Integra handled really well (minus the understeer during acceleration) with just upgraded sway bars, but now that I have a suspension (with adjustable shocks), it's on a whole new level.

Just remember that when you stiffen up the rear, you're moving the grip balance more towards the front, so it'll be easier to break the back end loose. So much as letting off of the throttle while taking a turn fast can do it. If the back end is just sliding (ie it hasn't turned into a spin yet), you can usually recover by getting back on the gas, which will transfer weight to the rear and get it back under control. And never hit your brakes while taking a turn fast, because that's just asking for a spin.

BTW: in wet conditions, most racers soften up the rear and/or disconnect the rear sway bar because cars (even our FWD Hondas) tend to oversteer in those conditions. It's much easier, faster, and safer to deal with understeer than oversteer. So, I would advise against trying out your new rear sway bar in the rain.

[exciv2000]

good info weston. So how much would a front sway bar help for those who don't have one?

[STIBungy]

Yes, very good info. Thanks!

I was planning on trying it in a parking lot when it rained. Since it didnt rain last night, I ended up trying it on dry pavement at the Park N Ride over on Thornton Pkwy. The handling was very neutral.

I have Ground Controls 350/250 on it along with AGX shocks. It was pretty stiff before but now the rear is even stiffer.....yay!

[Weston]

It would decrease roll and help stability in the front, but at the price of having more understeer. IMO, it's worth having, but I'd want to also stiffen up the rear to kill the extra understeer.

Sway bars link the left and right sides to keep the car flatter and help out that side that's under load (so that it will take up to almost twice as much load before it's fully compressed).

My sig pic is a pretty good example of what a sway bar does. I'm making a right turn, and you can see that the left side is fully compressed while the right side is up in the air. As the left side is compressed, the sway bar transfers some of that load to compress the right side's suspension (a large part of why my right wheel was up in the air). The result is that it takes more force (ie I can take the turn faster) before the left suspension is fully compressed, and the right side being compressed encourages the car to stay flat through the turn.

So, to sum up my long rambling post, it does make a significant improvement. And the stiffer the bar is, the more it will transfer the force from one side to the other. But there is a point of diminishing returns, which depends on the rest of the suspension.

[exciv2000]

Okay, so would it be beneficial for a non-autoXer or roadracer like myself who sometimes likes to take corners fast (sometimes with dips) to get an SI front sway bar which should bolt right in for cheap with Eibach pro-kit springs and Tokico Illumna adjustable shocks? Apparently there is a way to adjust the shocks from front to rear to either add more understeer or go into oversteer mode. I notice the car handles quite a bit differently around corners going to the track when the rears are on 5 and the fronts are on 2. Whether it's oversteer or understeer I really can't tell, I'm not that experienced in it. So I could possibly do that temporarily until I could get an SI or ITR rear sway bar. Whatcha think?

[STIBungy]

Whoa, I got it the car to oversteer this morning. I guess since there's some dew on the roads in the mornings. Now I'm looking forward to putting the front sway bar in cuz it scared me a little bit but I was able to correct it.

[jobooth321]

I've got a 2000 GSR and have been wondering if a Type R rear sway bar would make any difference. Are the GSR-Type R bars any different?

Input?

[Weston-work]

Originally posted by jobooth321
I've got a 2000 GSR and have been wondering if a Type R rear sway bar would make any difference. Are the GSR-Type R bars any different?

Input?

GS-R rear sway bar is 14mm, Type-R is 22mm. There's quite an improvement from the upgrade.

The GS-R and Type-R do share the same front sway bar, so no need to upgrade that.

[Weston-work]

Originally posted by exciv2000
Okay, so would it be beneficial for a non-autoXer or roadracer like myself who sometimes likes to take corners fast (sometimes with dips) to get an SI front sway bar which should bolt right in for cheap with Eibach pro-kit springs and Tokico Illumna adjustable shocks? Apparently there is a way to adjust the shocks from front to rear to either add more understeer or go into oversteer mode. I notice the car handles quite a bit differently around corners going to the track when the rears are on 5 and the fronts are on 2. Whether it's oversteer or understeer I really can't tell, I'm not that experienced in it. So I could possibly do that temporarily until I could get an SI or ITR rear sway bar. Whatcha think?

It should be beneficial to you. It effectively makes your suspension stiffer and the car more stable in the turns. You actually wouldn't have to worry about understeer as much as an autocross or road course racer, because I would hope you wouldn't be pushing the limits of the car around every turn. And there are ways to deal with understeer anyway.

A setting of 2/5 Front and 5/5 Rear means the rear is significantly stiffer than the front, so the weight will want to transfer to the front. This means it'll be easier for your front tires to have traction, while the rears will lose traction more easily. That's an oversteer setup.

Understeer is when the front loses traction: you can turn the steering wheel, but the car will just go mostly straight instead. To correct it, you let off of the gas (deceleration makes weight transfer to the front) and start turning the wheel the other way until the tires grip. If you get into understeer, it generally means you are going too fast for the line you are trying to take, so next time, try to reduce your speed and use a line that reduces the amount you have to turn the steering wheel.

Oversteer is when the rear loses traction: the back end will start to slide out, and if it's not corrected or controlled immediately, it can easily turn into a spin. Applying some throttle will shift weight to the rear and help hold the tires down. It's usually caused by weight transfer to the front (ie slowing down). As little as letting off the throttle while you're really pushing it through a turn can do it. That's one reason why you never shift in an agressive turn, and you definately do not want to touch the brakes unless you're attempting to induce some oversteer. Racers usually induce some oversteer with their car setup and driving techniques to help the car rotate (ie to counter act understeer), but it can be tricky.

[onestep]

B18CBungy, what did you have to do to install it? Did you have to drill holes in your LCAs?

[STIBungy]

No, I bought GSR LCAs and replaced the civic ones. I did have to drill a hole on each side of the subframe to accomodate the lower bolt of the sway bar D bracket. I also bought BSQ's ITR mounting kit to reinforce the D bracket which should prevent subframe warpage/tearout.

To my surprise, the subframe isnt that thick but I havent read about anyone having any tearout issues yet using the ITR bar. Plus I dont drive hard enough to worry about it. My friend Scott calls me a granny driver. Bah!

Originally posted by onestep
B18CBungy, what did you have to do to install it? Did you have to drill holes in your LCAs?

[HONDA GHANDI]

empty PM box :)

[STIBungy]

done