Fun Fuel Facts

[fitchnpolo]

Fuel Facts
You don't have to be a drag racing fan to appreciate
these statistics. Some Interesting Top Fuel Dragster
Facts:

* One dragster's 500-inch Hemi makes more
horsepower then the first 8 rows at Daytona.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes
1 1/2 gallons of nitro per second, the same rate of
fuel consumption as a fully loaded 747, but with 4
times the energy density.

* The supercharger takes more power to drive
then a stock hemi makes.

* With nearly 3000 CFM of air being rammed in
by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture
is compressed into nearly-solid form before ignition.

* Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock.

* Dual magnetos apply 44 amps to each spark plug.
This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.

* At stoichiometric (exact) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture
(for nitro), the flame front of nitro methane measures

7050 degrees F.

* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white
flame seen above the exhaust stacks at night is raw
burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water
vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during
a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from
compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at
1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down
by cutting off it's fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run,
unburned
nitro builds up in those cylinders and then explodes
with a force that can blow cylinder heads off the
block
in pieces or blow the block in half.

* Dragsters twist the crank (torsionally) so far (20
degrees in the big end of the crank) that sometimes
cam lobes are ground offset from front to rear to re-
phase the valve timing somewhere closer to syn-
chronization with the pistons.

* To exceed 300mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must
accelerate at an average of over 4G's. But in reaching

200 mph well before 1/2 track, launch acceleration is
closer to 8G's.

* If all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked
for
free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run
costs $1000.00 per second.

* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before
you have read this sentence.

* Top Fuel Engines ONLY turn 540 revolutions from
light to light!

* The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm.

* To give you an idea of this acceleration, the
current
TF dragster elapsed time record is 4.477 seconds
for the quarter mile.This means that you could be
coming
across the starting line in your average Lingenfelter
powered "twin-turbo" Corvette at 200 mph
(on a FLYING START) and the dragster would BEAT
you to the finish line FROM A DEAD STOP in a quarter
mile distance!

[Talonstylz]

damn, crazy stuff there

[SleeperZ]

That's insane - talk about running on the edge. I suppose if you had to drive one 1/2 mile, it wouldn't make it... :p

[john]

Whoot! :) :)

[stu]

I saw this exact post on G2IC a couple of months ago. Good stuff.

[Weston-work]

That's lots of interesting information, but it still doesn't tell me what I've been wondering all along... is there any point whatsoever?

[stu]

In what, super charging or the post?

[Weston-work]

I meant building a car that goes really really fast for a couple of seconds.

For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies. I don't see how that could happen with these super fast dragsters... they don't use common fuel or anything even resembling a regular engine, and all the technology is just to handle an excessive amount of power. It's impressive engineering, but what's the point of it all? Just so they can say "my rocket is faster than your rocket"?

Am I missing something, or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people?

[stu]

Because it's different when you are on top, breaking records, putting your name in it's own special place in history. I can imagine that even you would enjoy a 4 sec 300mph pass in one of those cars. There are lots of things like drag racing that don't make it into real world technology, like the guys who drag race dune buggies with turboed Caddy Northstar engines with nitrous (1000hp) up an almost straight up hill of loose dirt. Does that directly improve society? No, but I bet it's fun.

[Talus]

It's all about man's desire to push limits and do things that dont seem possible. It's the same desires as other classes of drag racing, but with more power and more glory.

[exciv2000]

that's just sick!

[MichaelT]

It puts my Uncles alcohol funny car to shame with it’s low 6 runs.

[Chevy454]

Originally posted by Weston-work
I meant building a car that goes really really fast for a couple of seconds.

For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies. I don't see how that could happen with these super fast dragsters... they don't use common fuel or anything even resembling a regular engine, and all the technology is just to handle an excessive amount of power. It's impressive engineering, but what's the point of it all? Just so they can say "my rocket is faster than your rocket"?

Am I missing something, or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people?

And every Honda is better because of their involvement in F1?

Also ever hear the phrase "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"? It works.

[stu]

So if I kick my little brother's ass in GT3 on Sunday, I should be able to sell a bunch of cars on Monday when I show up at the dealership?

[Weston]

Originally posted by Chevy454
And every Honda is better because of their involvement in F1?

Also ever hear the phrase "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"? It works.

I don't know about every Honda, but everything sold under the Acura name comes with a "race inspired suspension", or at least they used to. That's just one example that I happen to be familiar with, I'm sure there's much more that I don't even know about. Professional racing is a great R&D experience for certain car makers.

Anyways, I was just wondering if these dragsters have a more noble purpose, or if it's merely for amusement. The reason I'm wondering is because of the expenses involved. A lot of race teams have major backing from a car maker, and it's not uncommon for those car makers to also own their own race team(s). And I'm talking about a whole R&D thing, not just them buying ad space.

[Chevy454]

Well most fuel cars (probobly even Toyotas funny car) engines are probobly made by only a few shops. most (if not all) run a Keith Black block hemi.

[xain]

Originally posted by Weston-work
I meant building a car that goes really really fast for a couple of seconds.

For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies. I don't see how that could happen with these super fast dragsters... they don't use common fuel or anything even resembling a regular engine, and all the technology is just to handle an excessive amount of power. It's impressive engineering, but what's the point of it all? Just so they can say "my rocket is faster than your rocket"?

Am I missing something, or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people?

its almost like playing "swords"....

[DrJones]

dude my space shuttle would whoop your dragsters ass any day. It could get from here to australia before yours got down the 1/4 mile track.

Fuel for the engines, liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, is contained in the external tank, the largest element of the Shuttle. Fuel is supplied from the tank at a rate of about 178,000 liters (47,000 gallons) per minute of hydrogen and 64,000 liters (17,000 gallons) per minute of oxygen.

The speed of a Space Shuttle in low Earth orbit is about 17,500 miles an hour

NASA-R all the way!!

[exciv2000]

Originally posted by DrJones
dude my space shuttle would whoop your dragsters ass any day. It could get from here to australia before yours got down the 1/4 mile track.



Me flipping on a light switch ownz all ya'll :p

[Dustin]

Originally posted by Weston-work
I meant building a car that goes really really fast for a couple of seconds.

For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies. I don't see how that could happen with these super fast dragsters... they don't use common fuel or anything even resembling a regular engine, and all the technology is just to handle an excessive amount of power. It's impressive engineering, but what's the point of it all? Just so they can say "my rocket is faster than your rocket"?

Am I missing something, or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people?

There's no benefit to a manufacture, no reason to do it, No explanation why sponsers pay them big bucks. There is more refinement than engineering. Basically they do it because they can, and people pay to see them.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

[Reno]

Originally posted by Weston-work
I meant building a car that goes really really fast for a couple of seconds.

For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies. I don't see how that could happen with these super fast dragsters... they don't use common fuel or anything even resembling a regular engine, and all the technology is just to handle an excessive amount of power. It's impressive engineering, but what's the point of it all? Just so they can say "my rocket is faster than your rocket"?

Am I missing something, or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people? The entire point is entertainment. They get sponsored to do this. For the sponsorship, they put stickers all over the car for the sponsors. People say, "hey, look at that guy, he's using quaker state motor oil," and let's say a month later he needs an oil change. He walks down the oil aisle, and decides on quaker state because he saw it on the winning car.

[V8SpankR]

Another interesting fact about a top fuel dragster: Nothing on this planet reaches 100mph quicker;not a jet being flung off an aircraft carrier or even the space shuttle. A dragster can hit 100mph in about 6 tenths,the space shuttle takes a couple more ticks. I read this in MotorTrend a couple years back,pretty interesting read.

[DrJones]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
Another interesting fact about a top fuel dragster: Nothing on this planet reaches 100mph quicker;not a jet being flung off an aircraft carrier or even the space shuttle. A dragster can hit 100mph in about 6 tenths,the space shuttle takes a couple more ticks. I read this in MotorTrend a couple years back,pretty interesting read.


But can they go to the moon?

[Weston]

Originally posted by Dustin
There's no benefit to a manufacture, no reason to do it, No explanation why sponsers pay them big bucks. There is more refinement than engineering. Basically they do it because they can, and people pay to see them.

Is that what you wanted to hear?

It's not about what I wanted to hear. I was just trying to understand, that's all. God forbid someone wants to understand something. Maybe I should just be ignorant about it and trash on it only because I'm not good at drag racing. :rolleyes:

[exciv2000]

Originally posted by V8SpankR
[BNothing on this planet reaches 100mph quicker; [/B]

Nothing on the planet? Read my post above. It's called electricity :D

[HONDA GHANDI]

Originally posted by Reno
The entire point is entertainment. They get sponsored to do this.


I disagree. Even without sponsors mankind (especially in America) will always want to push the limits of physics, nature and himself. There would be racing just the same if it were not on TV, and did not carry multimillion dollar contracts. How many of us here are racing for money?
Dr Jones asked if it can go to the moon which is another example of a extraordianary feat with minimal returns. You ask why? The same answer applies to the space program as it does to racing, becasue we can.

[HONDA GHANDI]

On a side note: can anyone verify the Stoichiometric ratio of Nitromethane?
I beleive if its 1.7/1 a/f the compression ratio of the engine would hydrolock at anything higher than 3:1. Does this make sense to anyone? I have heard tehy have pretty high compression but that wouldnt jive with the given a/f ratios. At 9:1 compression the cylinder would hydrolock at 1/3 of a complete stroke and push the cylinder head right off the block or bend/break the rods and crank.

[Chevy454]

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
On a side note: can anyone verify the Stoichiometric ratio of Nitromethane?
I beleive if its 1.7/1 a/f the compression ratio of the engine would hydrolock at anything higher than 3:1. Does this make sense to anyone? I have heard tehy have pretty high compression but that wouldnt jive with the given a/f ratios. At 9:1 compression the cylinder would hydrolock at 1/3 of a complete stroke and push the cylinder head right off the block or bend/break the rods and crank.


1 part air is huge compared to 1 part fuel.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Define huge. Air can compress but fuel cannot. at a 1.7:1 ratio there is about 9 times the amout of fuel in the cylinder than any normal gasoline powered engine. So when the air is compressed at that extreme it becomes a liquid or pretty close. So my question is how can that much fuel and compressed air fit in an area that small. heres your chance 454, wow us with your intellect.

[stu]

BUMP

[Chevy454]

Originally posted by HONDA GHANDI
Define huge. Air can compress but fuel cannot. at a 1.7:1 ratio there is about 9 times the amout of fuel in the cylinder than any normal gasoline powered engine. So when the air is compressed at that extreme it becomes a liquid or pretty close. So my question is how can that much fuel and compressed air fit in an area that small. heres your chance 454, wow us with your intellect.

It is not being compressed to the point where it forms say liquid nitrogen (air) at that temp. The actual compression ratio of the engine isn’t that high, but when you factor in the crazy boost and nitromethane there is insane cylinder pressure.

You would have to know the size of the combustion chamber first then how much fuel they use (I think you could look up both but I am not gonna)

[HONDA GHANDI]

Originally posted by Chevy454
It is not being compressed to the point where it forms say liquid nitrogen (air) at that temp. The actual compression ratio of the engine isn’t that high, but when you factor in the crazy boost and nitromethane there is insane cylinder pressure.

You would have to know the size of the combustion chamber first then how much fuel they use (I think you could look up both but I am not gonna)


That didnt tell me anything.

[BatmanGSX]

Originally posted by Weston-work
For example, the technology developed for race cars often makes it's way into regular cars, or at least it does for the better car companies.

You seriously think an F1 team gives a shit what parts end up on your car? Nope. They do it for money, same reason the dragster people do it. If you think other forms of racing have anything to do with anything other than money you are wrong. F1 is not intended to be a giant R&D platform for production cars, sometimes it just ends up that way.

or are they blowing all of that money just to entertain people?

Blowing money? Do you mean making money? People want to see Top Fuel dragsters. Sponsors pay A LOT of money to Top Fuel teams and dragstrips because of this.

Just because you don't like it/find it interesting doesn't mean a million rednecks don't. What you should be asking is why they like it. Which would probably get an answer like "because they are loud and blow up good."

And I do like them too. What's not to like? The physics of it are interesting, the sound/feel (yes, you can feel them) is intense, and they sometimes give you a good show (exploding blowers etc).

Have you ever even seen a Top Fuel race in person? It's not just drag racing like two 13 second cars going at it. It's a whole show. Drag racing is like listening to a CD, Top Fuel is like going a concert with all your friends to see your favorite band and then three other of your favorite bands just show up and the concert goes all night and there are lasers and fire and lights and all the chicks take their clothes off and then at 3am they invite you and your friends backstage and three naked chicks do you.

[BatmanGSX]

Irrelivant here, but actually liquid can be compressed by tremendous force.

[HONDA GHANDI]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
Irrelivant here, but actually liquid can be compressed by tremendous force.


And we can all agree that these bastards fall under "Tremendous Force" category. :D

[BatmanGSX]

I'm not sure if they are or not. I don't know exactly what the definition of "temendous force" actually is. If they were compressing liquid in a top fuel dragster engine my guess is that they would be able to compress it by .000001% or something but I really have no idea because I am not quite that cool yet.

I know liquid would compress as it entered a black hole. That doesn't tell us much though :)

[HONDA GHANDI]

7000 degrees of combustion temp has to account for a proportionate amout of pressure and force so Im good with that.

[stu]

Ummmmm, I wasn't done learning yet. Anyone else?

[HONDA GHANDI]

http://www.nhra.com/2001/news/april/040102.html

here are a few more interesting tidbits about upandcoming top fuel technologies.

[stu]

Too bad that was one of their april fools articles. I believed you bastard.

[HONDA GHANDI]

:D

[hsunchen]

Originally posted by BatmanGSX
Drag racing is like listening to a CD, Top Fuel is like going a concert with all your friends to see your favorite band and then three other of your favorite bands just show up and the concert goes all night and there are lasers and fire and lights and all the chicks take their clothes off and then at 3am they invite you and your friends backstage and three naked chicks do you.

Well, I didn't experience anything quite THAT good when I attended a Winston Nationals at Bandimere a couple years back, but it was an experience I'll never forget.

Highlights -

1) I show up and wonder, why do all these people have a set of earplugs hanging around their necks? Then I heard - from a great distance - what sounded like 20 gatling guns in a blast furnace, making me instinctively cover my ears. Oh - that's why . . .

2) Choking and running away from a top fuel car idling in the pits for some tuning. That nitro exhaust is damn near nerve gas.

3) Being in the stands for the Top Fuel eliminations. Two drag rails launching at the same time shakes the very foundations of the grandstands. The ones on the west side. The ones that are set in CONCRETE from end to end.

4) Realizing that after seeing sub-5-second runs, 6-7 second Pro Stock runs are like watching stock Civics and Accords battle it out on Import day. Yawn.

[PH3R3D]

w00t!

[cherrybombcivic]

bump

[V8SpankR]

Originally posted by hsunchen


2) Choking and running away from a top fuel car idling in the pits for some tuning. That nitro exhaust is damn near nerve gas.


4) Realizing that after seeing sub-5-second runs, 6-7 second Pro Stock runs are like watching stock Civics and Accords battle it out on Import day. Yawn.

I think Batman might have been referring to actually racing in top Fuel.

2) Yes,newt2 and I can relate from just the last Nationals;we got caugth in it and it felt like I wanted to die.

4) We saw some 9 second cars run after the top fuel qualifying and it felt like you could have gone to the bathroom and come back and saw the end of the race. I can't imagine watching my car run after watching top fuel car run and I think my car is decent in the 1/4 mile dept.